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MUD act

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  • 07-07-2014 10:45pm
    #1
    adaczo
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    We are in a proces of buying a house and waiting on mud's act and requisition number 37 for second hand property.Can anyone please explain what are they and is the management company solicitor who has them?thank you


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    #2
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    It's something your solicitor requests from the management company via their management agent. It's basically info on the management company and in particular the unit you are buying. Key to this is that how the unit stands in relation to fee payments to the management company. If there are fees outstanding...you'll hit a speedbump. It's standard practice for management companies not to release paperwork with fees outstanding unless there's a legal agreement that fees will be paid from the proceeds of the sale.


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    #3
    adaczo
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭adaczo


    Thank you for your reply!As far as i know the management company is still existing but nobody from the estate is paying anything;there is no money in the management company;the neibours are paying 50e per house per year to someone to cut the grass


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    #4
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    adaczo wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply!As far as i know the management company is still existing but nobody from the estate is paying anything;there is no money in the management company;the neibours are paying 50e per house per year to someone to cut the grass

    Has the estate been taken in charge by the council? If not, run away. Any solicitor worth their salt won't let you progress such a purchase.


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    #5
    adaczo
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭adaczo


    No the estate hasn't been taken incharge by the town council yet,but i am just wondering can mud's act and req.37 be issued at all?


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    #6
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    adaczo wrote: »
    No the estate hasn't been taken incharge by the town council yet,but i am just wondering can mud's act and req.37 be issued at all?

    The act is a piece of law, already exists. Requisition 37 is required by that law. Unlikely to be issued in these circumstances and I would run, not walk, away from this purchase


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    #7
    adaczo
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭adaczo


    Thank you for your reply i am still hoping
    we'll be able to get req.37 as we love the house:-)


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    #8
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    adaczo wrote: »
    Thank you for your reply i am still hoping
    we'll be able to get req.37 as we love the house:-)

    You need to detach yourself emotionally from the house. A non functioning management company is a nightmare and nobody in their right mind should consider buying in such a development.


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    #9
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭jd


    adaczo wrote: »
    ,but i am just wondering can ..req.37 be issued at all?
    It's certainly unlikely to be issued if the vendor owes service charges.


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    #10
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    athtrasna wrote: »
    You need to detach yourself emotionally from the house. A non functioning management company is a nightmare and nobody in their right mind should consider buying in such a development.

    Can you even buy from a non functioning MC? How will the paper work be processed if no company exists to transfer the lease?


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    #11
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,903 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Can you even buy from a non functioning MC? How will the paper work be processed if no company exists to transfer the lease?

    Realistically no. No mortgage lender is going to touch it with a bargepole.


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    #12
    adaczo
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭adaczo


    When i checked online the management company status is 'normal' and the accounds seem to be up to date;but nobody is paying any money.if we knew about the situation we would never put an offer on this house!!!!the town council might be taking over in 2years..


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    #13
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,903 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    adaczo wrote: »
    When i checked online the management company status is 'normal' and the accounds seem to be up to date;but nobody is paying any money.if we knew about the situation we would never put an offer on this house!!!!the town council might be taking over in 2years..

    Town councils don't exist anymore as of last month so even if they were planning on taking it in to charge, those plans are likely gone asunder.

    Time to request the booking deposit back and write it off I suspect.


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    #14
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,384 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    First rule in house hunting is don't fall in love with a house.


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    #15
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    athtrasna wrote: »
    The act is a piece of law, already exists. Requisition 37 is required by that law. Unlikely to be issued in these circumstances and I would run, not walk, away from this purchase


    Not to be pedantic but replies to requisition are not required by law, it is considered best practice for a solicitor to obtain them but it is not a legal requirement.


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    #16
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Not to be pedantic but replies to requisition are not required by law, it is considered best practice for a solicitor to obtain them but it is not a legal requirement.

    If we're being pedantic it's now officially "Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 Precedent Pre-Contract Enquiries" rather than Req 37 :P Yes it's advised by law but compulsory for mortgage purposes and really valuable to a buyer. Failure to have these enquiries completed could prove costly to the purchaser in both long and short terms.


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    #17
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    athtrasna wrote: »
    If we're being pedantic it's now officially "Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 Precedent Pre-Contract Enquiries" rather than Req 37 :P Yes it's advised by law but compulsory for mortgage purposes and really valuable to a buyer. Failure to have these enquiries completed could prove costly to the purchaser in both long and short terms.

    Ok let's not argue:)
    There's a lot of conflicting opinions on who is responsible for the debt in respect of service charges when a property is sold. There isn't much case law on this so hopefully over the next few years there'll be more solid advice available.
    I absolutely agree though, under no circumstances would I purchase a property without seeing the replies.


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    #18
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Ok let's not argue:)
    There's a lot of conflicting opinions on who is responsible for the debt in respect of service charges when a property is sold. There isn't much case law on this so hopefully over the next few years there'll be more solid advice available.
    I absolutely agree though, under no circumstances would I purchase a property without seeing the replies.

    Our MC/MA will not let a sale go through without a guarantee that outstanding fees will be discharged. At the moment a sale is being held up because it's a repossession and the bank is trying to negotiate the outstanding amount down. The unit is our single biggest debtor so there is no way that the amount will be reduced. I fully support the position of the company. The bank want their money back faster than we need the fees. Meanwhile the buyer is stuck in limbo. Clearly they didn't complete all the enquiries they should have!


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    #19
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Any MA worth their salt will not provide replies unless the solicitors provide an undertaking to discharge all outstanding amounts, however I am aware of a number of instances where no replies were requested and that's where it can get difficult for the MC/MA


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    #20
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,966 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Any MA worth their salt will not provide replies unless the solicitors provide an undertaking to discharge all outstanding amount,

    I would have thought that they'd be waiting for the cold hard cash (ie cheques to have cleared).


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    #21
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I would have thought that they'd be waiting for the cold hard cash (ie cheques to have cleared).

    Not in every instance. If an undertaking from a solicitor is not followed through upon, that solicitor can be reported to the law society for breach of undertaking, in turn a court of law can order the solicitor to follow thorugh upon said undertaking


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    #22
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    athtrasna wrote: »
    Our MC/MA will not let a sale go through without a guarantee that outstanding fees will be discharged.

    In our development we won't allow the sale to go through unless all fees are paid in full.

    A solicitor's undertaking just doesn't pay the bills.


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    #23
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Paulw wrote: »
    In our development we won't allow the sale to go through unless all fees are paid in full.

    A solicitor's undertaking just doesn't pay the bills.

    I have not yet come accross a case whereby a solicitor did not follow through on their undertaking.
    Also, you will find in alot of cases the outstanding service charges are discharged from the proceeds for sale.


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    #24
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    blacklilly wrote: »
    I have not yet come accross a case whereby a solicitor did not follow through on their undertaking.
    Also, you will find in alot of cases the outstanding service charges are discharged from the proceeds for sale.

    I am well aware of that, but it was a decision our board of directors took.


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    #25
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Not in every instance. If an undertaking from a solicitor is not followed through upon, that solicitor can be reported to the law society for breach of undertaking, in turn a court of law can order the solicitor to follow thorugh upon said undertaking

    Not every MC inquiry will result in a sale; if the vendor is seriously behind on service charges, it may be worthwhile insisting that they be settled in advance of dealing with the inquiries rather than waiting for the sales proceeds to be applied. Not always easy to insist upon and in many circumstances the funds may not be available to settle them.


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    #26
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Not every MC inquiry will result in a sale; if the vendor is seriously behind on service charges, it may be worthwhile insisting that they be settled in advance of dealing with the inquiries rather than waiting for the sales proceeds to be applied. Not always easy to insist upon and in many circumstances the funds may not be available to settle them.

    Yes, I think it's important to look at it on a case by case basis. If you have a long term debtor who has caused undue hassel and expense (legal fees) then I would be very hesitant to provide replies unless payment was forthcoming.


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    #27
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    different units have different levels of enforceability and leverage. Common building units such as apartments and commercial units have block insurance elements which are typically essential for mortgage compliance. i.e. a lender wont even consider releasing a mortgage until they see the certificate with the purchasers and their interest noted. An OMC can withhold this document until fees are dealt with.

    However, houses don't require block insurance and so the leverage is less. Its the mud act pre contract form as the main basis. I don't believe that an OMC can 'stop' a sale in such a circumstance unless anyone can advise otherwise.


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    #28
    MONEYSUMS
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭MONEYSUMS


    Hi - where does one get a copy of "Multi-Unit Developments Act 2011 Precedent Pre-Contract Enquiries" ?

    Can I access one on the Internet ? I have looked but to no avail so far...


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    #29
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    Try irishstatutebook.ie


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    #30
    MONEYSUMS
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭MONEYSUMS


    Thank you woodville. In the meantime I eventually found one on the website of the Irish Law Society.


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    #31
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    even IF you can buy the property a non functioning OMC could be struck off if the accounts are not filed or it is not being run properly. When that happens you will have an unsellable house unless it is re-instated and all fees and fines paid. Depending on how long that strike off period is it could be a few thousand to tens of thousands.

    A home that cannot be sold has a value of nothing. This is why banks wont release a mortgage for a non functioning company.

    If you are prepared to never sell the house and your children will never be able to sell it then go ahead and buy it. After all, you love it. (whatever that is?)


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