Bird identity

Murray007

We have seen a bird around our area, forestry and some open farmland, not regularly but more than a few times, which is quike stricking to see but have been unable to identify it.

It has jet black head and wings, a chestnut marking on the upper back and white on the lower back, and black underbelly. It is roughly the size of a blackbird but seems chubbier. Its beck and feet are black.

Any ideas of what it could be?

Unfortunately, we have never been able to get a photo.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If it has long legs I'd suggest grey plover.

Murray007

No, checked grey plover on line.

Its more like a blackbird, glossy jet black head, tail and underbelly but with a block of chestnut on top back and a block of white on lower back.

Its not a water/wading type bird. More woodland/grass. Anytime we have seen it, it is flying from open grass into trees.

It doesn't have speckles.

Murray007

Also, seen it last week so either a summer migrant or a resident bird.

RosieJoe

Only one I could suggest is a female bullfinch but she's too small and not the correct unberbelly colour

Murray007

No quite different from the bullfinch, and closer to the size of a blackbird.

When I seen it first I was struck by how unusual it was.

RosieJoe

I tried using the RSPB Bird Identifier, here, but I could not find anything.

I tried a few other online identifies but nothing yet

trebor28

Hardly a Jay??

jmkennedyie

Wheatear?

Murray007

Yea I tried the identifier, and have a great book of Irish wildlife at home that normally is a bible for anything that I can't identify.

I really need to try and get a photo. Talking with another family member who has seen it, it may not be black on the belly. Strangely the only times we have seen it, it was flying away, so I agree with him all I can say for sure if black, head, wings and tail and chestnut and white colour blocks on the back. Tail seemed to be slightly fanned from my memory.

It is not a wheat eater, looked ya that before. I will check out photos of jays now.

Murray007

It has no blue and the chestnut colour is far more red and darker than a jay. Although the shape seems right. Also the black head and tail was a vivid contrast against the chestnut and white blocks.

Starting to think it is something really unusual, I spent three hours this eve on line looking at bird images!

It's primarily conifer forest around us but it was deciduous patch of old woodland that I seen it fly into.

OpenYourEyes

I knw it's easier said than done, but if you can get any sort of photo of it it'd really help in ID'ing it! Even a poor enough pic would be a start

Bonedigger

I wonder is it possible that it's not in fact a rare migrant or something unusual,but something more like a leucistic male blackbird?The fact that it was seen to fly in and out of a patch of deciduous woodland may be a clue.As OpenYourEyes has pointed out,without a photo,it's really going to be just a guessing game I'm afraid.

Murray007

Very similiar to the blackbird photo, but when the wings are open the whole back is chestnut on top and white below. I wonder is that possible in this bird?

I thought the beak was also black but I could be proved wrong.

We have only seen it a handful of times but in the same rough location, so next weekend I will go out and try to get a photo.

Desmo

Is there a stream nearby? Dipper?
Or house martin (right except for chestnut bit)?
Only other thing I can think of is a leucistic blackbird (mutant blackbird with white patches).

Des

Murray007

I had considered dipper, but I don't think the legs were long enough and no chestnut marking.

There is a small stream near by, I will hang out there for a while at the weekend to see if I can get a photo.

Bonedigger

Murray007 wrote: »

Very similiar to the blackbird photo, but when the wings are open the whole back is chestnut on top and white below. I wonder is that possible in this bird?

I thought the beak was also black but I could be proved wrong.

We have only seen it a handful of times but in the same rough location, so next weekend I will go out and try to get a photo.

I wonder could it have been a leucistic female blackbird(hence the blackish beak),but strangely enough,most images of leucistic blackbirds you see tend to be males.Here's a brief description of leucism I found elsewhere:

White patches where the bird should not have any.
Paler overall plumage that looks faint, diluted or bleached.
Overall white plumage with little or no color discernable.
The degree of leucism, including the brightness of the white and the extent of pigment loss, will vary depending on the bird’s genetic makeup.

It's possible the chestnut colour you've seen on the bird's upper back is a paler shade of black/brown?Hopefully you can get photos next weekend.

Desmo

Dipper legs are about the same as blackbirds in terms of proportions. Their typical habit is to stand on rocks in fast flowing streams and to occasionally charge into the water. Nothing else does anything like that. Otherwise, they kind of look like blackbirds with white chests. Do try the stream.

Kovu

Would any of the birds on this be similar?

Could be a leucistic juvenile changing plumage.

Murray007

No, not like a young bird.

It has solid blocks of colour, no flecking.

Kovu

Murray007 wrote: »

No, not like a young bird.

It has solid blocks of colour, no flecking.

Ok, long shot here but a Ring Ouzel?

mgwhelan

Draw us a picture of the bird

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

.Kovu. wrote: »

Ok, long shot here but a Ring Ouzel?

White is on the lower back so unlikely indeed to be an Ouzel.

ThunderCat

Not a Shelduck by any chance? Can't really think of anything else.

jmkennedyie

hmm. we'll get there eventually

Just in case, please check stonechat and the rarer whinchat

However starting to remind me of the redstart, or more possibly (though even rarer I believe) a black redstart. Male and female different.

Can you advise what part of the country? or even upland/lowland/what type of forestry nearby/coastal etc.

Murray007

Getting excited now!

The white capped water redstart has the exact colouring in some images online (in different order) but the one I seen didn't have the white tip on the head.

It could be a black redstart, they vary a lot in colouring but there is an image online of a male that is very silimilar. Is that possible in Cavan, upland mixed forestry and grassland, small stream near where I seen it? They seem to be a rare passage migrant to costal areas.

There are some images online with the exact colourings but in different order on the bird. The fanned tail and the way it sits in the tree is also similiar.

How do you post an image? Maybe I haven't enough posts to do that.

Velvet shank

your bird is blackbird kind of size though?
black redstart is more robin type size

Murray007

I have been describing it to the best of mny ability given that I have only seen it twice for a few seconds each time. Another family member has also seen it twice.

I have not stated that its definately a redstart either by the way. I have no experise in describing or identifying birds whatsoever. The colouring on some images of redstarts and the tail type is the closest I seen to it.

The only way to definatively identify it is for me to try and get a photo - with a blackbird standing beside it for a size comparison

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Any photo will do. There's no need for a size comparison if we can see the bird itself.

Murray007

I was joking about the blackbird standing beside it in the photo. Its going to be hard enough to get a photo of it alone.

I have looked at the sizes of robins, redstarts and blackbirds and I nearly sure it was closer to a blackbird size than a robin's size. Although, the startling colours may have made it look bigger than it actually was.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The white capped redstart is Asian and does not have a white lower back anyway.

Murray007

Agree, I said it has the same colourings but as it doesn't have a white tipped head so it couldn't be a white capped redstart.