Argentina vrs Netherlands, World Cup Semi-Final , 9/7/2014 , 9.00pm

Maximus Alexander

OdgeXD wrote: »

Except for FIFA who want Messi to win a World Cup and given they control the referee, there's your conspiracy theory.

Why do FIFA want Messi to win a World Cup?

Skylinehead

OdgeXD wrote: »

Worst game of the competition so far. Argentina are ****ing awful and have no place in the final,

So who does have a place in the final? All those teams that got knocked out?

Francie Barrett

OdgeXD wrote: »

Argentina are ****ing awful and have no place in the final

No idea how you can say that at all. They've been the best team in all their matches and as such are rightful finalists.

For me, Columbia are about the only team who have a genuine hard luck story.

Iang87

auldgranny wrote: »

Too right. Such negative play. Only 12 goals in fairness!!!

I like how this reply yesterday is so fitting now. The dutch were negative throughout the competition.

They were a whisker from a world cup final without scoring a goal since the last 16. That was even a penalty

auldgranny

Turtyturd wrote: »

1 more than the teams knocked out scored.

Would expect a better final. Holland have 1 World Class player in Robben who is capable of winning any game but the negative tactics from Van Gaal meant that he might as well have been sitting in the stands for the first 85 minutes.

Did you see the odds before world cup? Favourites were Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain. Holland 33/1 outsiders. The soccer pundits didn't rate them. Very few people gave them a chance. They don't have a team of superstars. To be honest I think they did a damn good job to get to a semi final and keep Argentina from scoring. It may not have been the prettiest football but they had a job to do and did it for the most part.

I just hope it's a decent final. Not really that bothered who wins it tbh. Probably depends what bet I stick on

Iused2likebusts

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Why do FIFA want Messi to win a World Cup?

Because Brazil are out so now Fifa want to do the total opposite and rub the Brazilians noses in it. Are people really serious with some of the stuff they dream up on here its nonsense.

Will I Amnt

auldgranny wrote: »

Did you see the odds before world cup? Favourites were Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Spain. Holland 33/1 outsiders. The soccer pundits didn't rate them. Very few people gave them a chance. They don't have a team of superstars. To be honest I think they did a damn good job to get to a semi final and keep Argentina from scoring. It may not have been the prettiest football but they had a job to do and did it for the most part.

Aye, sure remember before the tournament started, everyone was astonished at the long odds on Holland.
"Are the bookies insane" we heard them cry. "Sure Holland are in with a great chance"
Oh no wait... That didn't happen.

Maximus Alexander

Will I Amnt wrote: »

"Are the bookies insane" we heard them cry. "Sure Holland are in with a great chance"

I was saying that.

Iused2likebusts

Bayern losing so convincingly in the cl in hindsight probably put a lot of people off germany in the lead up to the world cup

OdgeXD

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Why do FIFA want Messi to win a World Cup?

So that they can say he's a better player than C. Ronaldo, obviously..

Edit: quoted the wrong numpty

Iused2likebusts

OdgeXD wrote: »

So that they can say he's a better player than C. Ronaldo, obviously..

Edit: quoted the wrong numpty

The Brazil conspiracy was bad enough but this is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read in the soccer forum.

Skylinehead

OdgeXD wrote: »

So that they can say he's a better player than C. Ronaldo, obviously..

Edit: quoted the wrong numpty

Messi doesn't need FIFA for that though.

auldgranny

Iang87 wrote: »

I like how this reply yesterday is so fitting now. The dutch were negative throughout the competition.

They were a whisker from a world cup final without scoring a goal since the last 16. That was even a penalty

Argentina scored 2. Big deal. Dutch had a job to do . Stop Messi. He was such a genius they managed it. They did not play negative football till yesterday.

I raise your conspiracy A with Conspiracy B.

Brazil would want anyone but Argentina to win the world cup on their own turf and FIFA will make damn sure it happens. A German win will lead to less riots in the streets of Rio.

Both A and B are highly plausible

hjkl

rarnes1 wrote: »

I raise your conspiracy A with Conspiracy B.

Brazil would want anyone but Argentina to win the world cup on their own turf and FIFA will make damn sure it happens. A German win will lead to less riots in the streets of Rio.

Both A and B are highly plausible

Or option C. There's no conspiracy. It's just a game of football.

Tombo2001

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Bayern losing so convincingly in the cl in hindsight probably put a lot of people off germany in the lead up to the world cup

Funny, I was thinking something similar about Spain.

You had two Spanish teams in the Champions League final. All the Real players were fixated on 'La Decima'. They had just over two weeks turn around from the CL final to their first match.


I hope they now realise that 'La Decima' is in the ha'penny place next to the World Cup.


Spain have probably the best squad at the World Cup next to Germany; I dont think the team was focussed, and I really think that if they had their heads together, they'd be in the final next Sunday, its one they left behind.

frimpong

frimpong wrote: »

Or option C. There's no conspiracy. It's just a game of football.

Really??!!

Turtwig

How are Argentina awful?

Their defence and the dutch defence are arguably the best defences in the tournament. They can also play attacking football too but naturally that leaves them more exposed at the back. The thing is they can play both style, win, and were both incredibly patient in all the games they played.

Argentina with an injured DiMaria, questionably fit Aguero and Gago (who didn't play last night) and a fatigued Messi are still highly organised. Sure, if they played an all out attacking game last night they'd have lost. You can bet your arse if Germany were playing last night they'd also have been very boring against the Dutch.

Both side were so evenly matched the calibre of defending was incredible. Calling either side awful or limp is a bit OTT.

Liam O

Turtwig wrote: »

How are Argentina awful?

Their defence and the dutch defence are arguably the best defences in the tournament. They can also play attacking football too but naturally that leaves them more exposed at the back. The thing is they can play both style, win, and were both incredibly patient in all the games they played.

Argentina with an injured DiMaria, questionably fit Aguero and Gago (who didn't play last night) and a fatigued Messi are still highly organised. Sure, if they played an all out attacking game last night they'd have lost. You can bet your arse if Germany were playing last night they'd also have been very boring against the Dutch.

Both side were so evenly matched the calibre of defending was incredible. Calling either side awful or limp is a bit OTT.

Kroos, Khedira and Schweinsteiger won't be as forgiving in midfield as De Jong and Wijnaldum last night. They are going to obliterate Argentina through the middle. Argentina's only chance is getting at whatever side Lahm isn't playing on and even then it's a long shot imo. Obviously Messi could have the game of his life but he was stagnant yesterday and has only shown flashes of brilliance throughout the tournament. Germany have found the combination of players that work for them and Argentina are the ones with a huge mountain to climb.

I am pie

Turtwig wrote: »

How are Argentina awful?

Their defence and the dutch defence are arguably the best defences in the tournament. They can also play attacking football too but naturally that leaves them more exposed at the back. The thing is they can play both style, win, and were both incredibly patient in all the games they played.

Argentina with an injured DiMaria, questionably fit Aguero and Gago (who didn't play last night) and a fatigued Messi are still highly organised. Sure, if they played an all out attacking game last night they'd have lost. You can bet your arse if Germany were playing last night they'd also have been very boring against the Dutch.

Both side were so evenly matched the calibre of defending was incredible. Calling either side awful or limp is a bit OTT.

They managed to stop the Dutch having a shot on goal. Awful indeed.

If Higuain or Palacio took their chances they wouldnt have needed penalties. Against a Dutch team who frequently dropped a 6th man back into the existing 5 at the back they did managed to create at least 3 clear cut chances which they should have taken.

Unfortunately for Argentina they haven't had to face a team as naive as Spain and in a 2 man team like Brazil, bereft of it's top two and a Portugal team whose self destruct button was pushed by Pepe and with an unfit Ronaldo.

Germany have been ruthlessly brilliant when presented with weaknesses but against Algeria, Ghana and to a certain extent the US there are enough signs of hope for Argentina that they can give them a game. Garay & Demichelis look solid, Rojo and Zabaleta too, I like the midfield much more with Biglia or Perez + Di Maria and Mascherano than with Gago in there. The fwd line is strangely the problem as only Higuain so far has put in one performance against Belgium although last night he soldiered bravely. Lavezzi has been a revelation offering a bit of width too. If Aguero can sort out his problems, which are rumoured to be more mental than physical (woman trouble of various sorts allegedly) he might just give Argentina the spark needed.

I live in hope. With a big happy hungover head.

cson

Liam O wrote: »

Kroos, Khedira and Schweinsteiger won't be as forgiving in midfield as De Jong and Wijnaldum last night. They are going to obliterate Argentina through the middle. Argentina's only chance is getting at whatever side Lahm isn't playing on and even then it's a long shot imo. Obviously Messi could have the game of his life but he was stagnant yesterday and has only shown flashes of brilliance throughout the tournament. Germany have found the combination of players that work for them and Argentina are the ones with a huge mountain to climb.

Yeah I think Argentina are ****ed to be honest.

They'll have Khedira sit on Messi and tbh Argentina don't have any runners from midfield in the mould of Kroos so they won't score. The Germans will. Germany by daylight; 2 goals.

I am pie

Liam O wrote: »

Kroos, Khedira and Schweinsteiger won't be as forgiving in midfield as De Jong and Wijnaldum last night. They are going to obliterate Argentina through the middle. Argentina's only chance is getting at whatever side Lahm isn't playing on and even then it's a long shot imo. Obviously Messi could have the game of his life but he was stagnant yesterday and has only shown flashes of brilliance throughout the tournament. Germany have found the combination of players that work for them and Argentina are the ones with a huge mountain to climb.

I can't see mascherano and Di Maria being obliterated. I have seen Germany obliterate teams that have capitulated in front of them and have seen them labouring much more against other teams. Spain, Brazil and Portugal were fairly fortuitous games for Germany in some respects although they were ruthlessly brilliant.

For all the frankly ignorant talk about Argentinas poor defence, the statistics in qualifying and during the tournament paint a different picture.

M.T. Cranium

That Germany-Spain match was a thriller, Ozil was especially effective. I would watch that again (here in the alternate universe).

Corholio

I am pie wrote: »

I can't see mascherano and Di Maria being obliterated. I have seen Germany obliterate teams that have capitulated in front of them and have seen them labouring much more against other teams. Spain, Brazil and Portugal were fairly fortuitous games for Germany in some respects although they were ruthlessly brilliant.

For all the frankly ignorant talk about Argentinas poor defence, the statistics in qualifying and during the tournament paint a different picture.

The matches in the group phase painted the poor defence picture to be honest. Lots of poor marking that wasn't punished because of the quality of the teams, or lack of. Got a bit lucky against Nigeria at times.

The_Kew_Tour

cant wait for Sunday.

Going be closer then some think although I do think Germany will nick it.

dont mind who wins it. Like see Messi do it too, although Kroos is my fav player at minute. A joy to watch.

Rayne Wooney

Before the World Cup:

"33/1, won't even get out of the group, Chile and Spain will smash them, poor squad, LVG won't do anything"

After they got to the semi final of a World Cup:

"Good squad, LVG "negativity" puts them out"


Brilliant stuff

the incredible pudding

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

After they got to the semi final of a World Cup:

"Good squad, LVG "negativity" puts them out"

Who said that? Who blamed Van Gaal for putting them out?

Most people could appreciate that the Dutch were very well organised and played to what strengths they had. They generally were a bit of a negative team though, at least in terms of what their midfield offered (very little support for the front two who were expected to do everything really) but they'd no real options given their best midfielder was out this tournament and Sneijder being a shadow of how good he was.

Most people can appreciate Van Gaal did a good job. He got them working hard and generally did what he could to stifle teams. As someone else mentioned, genius is hyperbole but not giving him his due credit is equally silly.

trashcan

M.T. Cranium wrote: »

That Germany-Spain match was a thriller, Ozil was especially effective. I would watch that again (here in the alternate universe).

Who won

tastyt

I think people are very wrong to write off Argentina and say that the Germans will destroy their midfield. Brazil game was a one off freak result. Yes they totally deserved to win but the game took on a life of its own.

This is the same Germany who drew with Ghana and were lucky not to be knocked out by Algeria.

Argentina haven't conceded since the group's and looked very solid in the semi against the moat dangerous attack in the tournament. I think they will be very very hard to beat and believe messi knows it's his chance to silence any doubters and take his place in immortality.

Argentina to win against the odds

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Before the World Cup:

"33/1, won't even get out of the group, Chile and Spain will smash them, poor squad, LVG won't do anything"

After they got to the semi final of a World Cup:

"Good squad, LVG "negativity" puts them out"


Brilliant stuff

Who's quotes are those?

WilyCoyote

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes because forcing a player to take a penalty, actually the first penalty, in a World Cup semi final is a good idea

Others were asked before Vlaar but refused, he missed it but it was the best option

Why not ask their own goalie?

Liam O

tastyt wrote: »

I think people are very wrong to write off Argentina and say that the Germans will destroy their midfield. Brazil game was a one off freak result. Yes they totally deserved to win but the game took on a life of its own.

This is the same Germany who drew with Ghana and were lucky not to be knocked out by Algeria.

Argentina haven't conceded since the group's and looked very solid in the semi against the moat dangerous attack in the tournament. I think they will be very very hard to beat and believe messi knows it's his chance to silence any doubters and take his place in immortality.

Argentina to win against the odds

You think that the Dutch had the most dangerous attack in the tournament? Wouldn't be so sure about that. They may be hard to beat but they are going to have Kroos and Ozil probing and Khedira and Schweinsteiger on top of them through the middle. That's not even mentioning Muller who has been unstoppable in 2 WCs now. And if it's not working? Have you seen the German bench? Just don't see it unless Messi plays the absolute game of his life and drags them up with him which he has had trouble doing in the last 2 rounds.

Paully D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-EtYWhhAc

Look how close that was to going back in!

Smithwicks Man

Paully D wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-EtYWhhAc

Look how close that was to going back in!

Unbelievable, would've loved to have seen the reaction to that

Would've had to be given!

dirkmeister

I think Vlaar gave the ball a little touch though when it came back out to him.

dfx-

I don't think he does hit it, from other angles I think it bounces over his shoulder and then spins. At the time I thought he kicked it..

dirkmeister

dfx- wrote: »

I don't think he does hit it, from other angles I think it bounces over his shoulder and then spins. At the time I thought he kicked it..

Balls.ie have up a gif where it looks like he spins it with his shoulder,very hard too tell either way.