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Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

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    #3362
    secman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,298 ✭✭✭secman


    nm wrote: »
    Definitely would have been the best option



    The sacred 'agreement' needs to be reviewed

    It's not a sacred agreement , it's a planning permission condition that the GAA agreed to.


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    #3363
    paddyirish23
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭paddyirish23


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    Another day another round of desperate posts from delusional GB fans. Face it people, he doesn't give a rats ass about his fans, if he did this wouldn't have happened. The sooner the refunds start the better, then we can put this nonsense behind us.

    That's what you think but what happens to those ppl who never got tickets due to ticketmaster f*cked up like in limerick etc. He even referenced this and I'm with him if they won't let him do 5 shows over 5 nights after 400000 ppl have made plans and the dcc were thick enough to not give any hints that 5 were not going to happen, then he shouldn't do any and this will just fall back to all had not getting together back in feb and sorting it out. We look like idiots for that very reason alone and I really hope this won't effect the rugby world cup bid happening soon!


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    #3364
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Grayson wrote: »
    5 weeks is the time they allow for people to object and they say that all applications have to be made at least 10 weeks before the event..

    Eh yes, that is what I said.. in response to people the people all week who have been making the nonsensical claim all week that the council has to wait ten weeks "by law" before they could officially refuse to grant an event licence.
    .. but they don't say that they will take between 5 and 10 weeks. I haven't seen anywhere it states that DCC have to reply within a certain time.
    Eh, I never said they 'had to' respond' at a certain time. I said that the window where they could make a decision opened 9 weeks before the concerts were to take place in response to the waffle about that the DCC left making decision until July 2nd as they had to. That is patently untrue.
    Besides, after the 5 week consultation period it had to take a few weeks to review any protests that were lodged.

    I'll get to that in a second, but you do realize that the DCC are saying they made it clear to Aiken & Co that they had issues with the concerts going ahead, long before the applications were made and so that clearly implies that the DCC had their reasons for refusing the licences all along. In any case, it was all over the media that the residents were taking legal action, the matter was raised in the Seanad (as I have shown) and so it really should only have taken a few days, if that, to decide that they were only going to grant three licences, if any at all.

    Also, and people need to understand this, the DCC where in discussions with Aiken & Co for five months discussing the five concerts. Yes, they obviously can't refuse licences which have not as yet been applied for and they then must wait for five weeks to allow objections to made, but.. AT ANY POINT during the time the discussions begin, the DCC can, and do, make their concerns known. That is in fact the whole point of the preliminary discussions. They are what inform the application and so if they wanted to say: 'Peter, there is not a chance of us granting licences for five concerts, we're not sure exactly how many we will grant, if any and so you really should get this application in asap so that however many of the 400,000 ticket holders that have bought tickets will be as inconvenienced as possible should some of the concerts not go ahead'.

    However, Aiken, Brook's management and the GAA alll say that they were not given any indication by the DCC that they had such serious concerns about the concerts. Concerns which meant that they might actually refuse to licence them. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary either which leads me to believe that they are telling the truth and the DCC are not. The fact that the DCC granted three licences and was looking for a guarantee from Brooks on doing a fourth, is also indictive of them telling porkies.

    In any case, Keegan had from the 25th of May to phone Aiken and tell him they were refusing to licence some of the concerts, but they chose to wait until July 2nd to make the phone call.. just three fecking weeks before the concerts were to take place. The system is fractured for sure, but his amateurishly poor handling of things turned a hairline fracture into the grand canyon and he is clearly not fit to do the job he is paid over €175,000 a year to do.


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    #3365
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I received my refund this morning- does this mean it's definitely over?
    Aiken said this a week ago
    ‘Moving to a different venue just wouldn’t work. We have 12 container loads that are already en route here, custom-made for the Hogan Stand. We’re scheduled to start work on July 12.’
    If there is no activity around Croke Park today then it is probably safe to assume that it is off.


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    #3366
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    secman wrote: »
    It's not a sacred agreement , it's a planning permission condition that the GAA agreed to.

    Cool. It needs to be reviewed.


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    #3367
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    It's actually 320,000 over 3 days. Three days of the weekend, I might add. The other 2 days are weekdays and I would imagine that traffic management would have played a sizeable part in the decision to not allow them to go ahead.

    Incorrect.

    Like I said, it would 320,000 over two days (4 x 80,000 = Sat & Sun matinees & Sat & Sun evening).

    It would in fact be 400,000 over three days, obviously (..when you add the 80,000 from the Fri evening show).


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    #3368
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Eh yes, that is what I said.. in response to people the people all week who have been making the nonsensical claim all week that the council has to wait ten weeks "by law" before they could officially refuse to grant an event licence.

    Eh, I never said they 'had to' respond' at a certain time. I said that the window where they could make a decision opened 9 weeks before the concerts were to take place in response to the waffle about that the DCC left making decision until July 2nd as they had to. That is patently untrue.


    I'll get to that in a second, but you do realize that the DCC are saying they made it clear to Aiken & Co that they had issues with the concerts going ahead, long before the applications were made and so that clearly implies that the DCC had their reasons for refusing the licences all along. In any case, it was all over the media that the residents were taking legal action, the matter was raised in the Seanad (as I have shown) and so it really should only have taken a few days, if that, to decide that they were only going to grant three licences, if any at all.

    Also, and people need to understand this, the DCC where in discussions with Aiken & Co for five months discussing the five concerts. Yes, they obviously can't refuse licences which have not as yet been applied for and they then must wait for five weeks to allow objections to made, but.. AT ANY POINT during the time the discussions begin, the DCC can, and do, make their concerns known. That is in fact the whole point of the preliminary discussions. They are what inform the application and so if they wanted to say: 'Peter, there is not a chance of us granting licences for five concerts, we're not sure exactly how many we will grant, if any and so you really should get this application in asap so that however many of the 400,000 ticket holders that have bought tickets will be as inconvenienced as possible should some of the concerts not go ahead'.

    However, Aiken, Brook's management and the GAA alll say that they were not given any indication by the DCC that they had such serious concerns about the concerts. Concerns which meant that they might actually refuse to licence them. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary either which leads me to believe that they are telling the truth and the DCC are not. The fact that the DCC granted three licences and was looking for a guarantee from Brooks on doing a fourth, is also indictive of them telling porkies.

    In any case, Keegan had from the 25th of May to phone Aiken and tell him they were refusing to licence some of the concerts, but they chose to wait until July 2nd to make the phone call.. just three fecking weeks before the concerts were to take place. The system is fractured for sure, but his amateurishly poor handling of things turned a hairline fracture into the grand canyon and he is clearly not fit to do the job he is paid over €175,000 a year to do.


    More of this excusing nonsense...there was controversary about this from the get go...all over the internet there where debates going on about it..is it credible that none of this got through to Aiken and Croke Park? Why are you not critical of them NOT making an enquiry? Like; Mr Keegan, do you forsee any problem with this?

    What do you think 'a consultative' process is? What do you think they would be discussing? His claims and the GAA's claims are bull**** imo, anybody and everybody knew they where overstepping the mark, including Brooks fans on here and like some of those fans they thought it was all too big to be refused.

    I'm proud of this country for once, sad for the genuine fans..but for once our system has held up. There is hope for the future and any foreigner who thinks we should be embarrassed can take a hike on the ship they came in on!


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    #3369
    paddyirish23
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭paddyirish23


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    More of this excusing nonsense...there was controversary about this from the get go...all over the internet there where debates going on about it..is it credible that none of this got through to Aiken and Croke Park? Why are you not critical of them NOT making an enquiry? Like; Mr Keegan, do you forsee any problem with this?

    What do you think 'a consultative' process is? What do you think they would be discussing? His claims and the GAA's claims are bull**** imo, anybody and everybody knew they where overstepping the mark, including Brooks fans on here and like some of those fans they thought it was all too big to be refused.

    I'm proud of this country for once, sad for the genuine fans..but for once our system has held up. There is hope for the future and any foreigner who thinks we should be embarrassed can take a hike on the ship they came in on!


    Yes and do you not think DCC and Mr Keegan, during this consultative process', should have made it clear that there is no way 5 concerts will be allowed even if they allowed the 4 to go ahead they'd still turn down one and be told all are being cancelled then and have us know months in advance that they won't be happening, not 3 bloody weeks!

    How can you be proud of a system that clearly doesn't work.. yes for 99% of concerts it works but this is the biggest case it hasn't and 400000 ppl is a pretty big 1%.
    I'm sure if it was within the law by now the DCC would have back tracked by now so it's time enda says yes or no cus my weekend planned for 2 weeks is costing a lot and leaving it this late is a joke!


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    #3370
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    More of this excusing nonsense...there was controversary about this from the get go...all over the internet there where debates going on about it..is it credible that none of this got through to Aiken and Croke Park? Why are you not critical of them NOT making an enquiry? Like; Mr Keegan, do you forsee any problem with this?

    What do you think 'a consultative' process is? What do you think they would be discussing? His claims and the GAA's claims are bull**** imo, anybody and everybody knew they where overstepping the mark, including Brooks fans on here and like some of those fans they thought it was all too big to be refused.

    I'm proud of this country for once, sad for the genuine fans..but for once our system has held up. There is hope for the future and any foreigner who thinks we should be embarrassed can take a hike on the ship they came in on!

    Your proud of a system that leaves 160,000 having licences for the concerts they held tickets to, cancelled three weeks before they were to take place, when thousands of hotels and flights have been booked? Your proud of a system that allows tickets to go on sale for concerts which not been licenced? Your proud of a system that grants three concerts above what residents and a venue agreed would? Your proud of a system that wants to pawn off 160,000 people with a scaled down show during the day when they have paid their money for a full show, with all the bells and whistles that those attending in the evening will get? Crikey.. they sure are strange things to be taking pride in.


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    #3371
    CapricornOne
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭CapricornOne


    50 people protesting against "the system" outside the GPO :)


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    #3372
    Titzon Toast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Your proud of a system that leaves 160,000 having licences for the concerts they held tickets to, cancelled three weeks before they were to take place, when thousands of hotels and flights have been booked? Your proud of a system that allows tickets to go on sale for concerts which not been licenced? Your proud of a system that grants three concerts above what residents and a venue agreed would? Your proud of a system that wants to pawn off 160,000 people with a scaled down show during the day when they have paid their money for a full show, with all the bells and whistles that those attending in the evening will get? Crikey.. they sure are strange things to be taking pride in.
    I'm also proud of this as are tens of thousands more Irish people for that matter.
    Aiken and the GAA tried to bully the residents of the Croke park area and to manipulate the Planning application by deliberately waiting until the very last second to apply for their licences.
    They knew full well what they trying and it bit them in the arse.
    The only reason you and other GB fans have little to no support on these boards is because of the shocking nonsense that has been spouted about the residents and Dublin as a whole.
    I'm delighted DCC stuck to their guns and told Garth what's what.


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    #3373
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    paddyirish23 wrote: »
    Yes and do you not think DCC and Mr Keegan, during this consultative process', should have made it clear that there is no way 5 concerts will be allowed even if they allowed the 4 to go ahead they'd still turn down one and be told all are being cancelled then and have us know months in advance that they won't be happening, not 3 bloody weeks!

    How can you be proud of a system that clearly doesn't work.. yes for 99% of concerts it works but this is the biggest case it hasn't and 400000 ppl is a pretty big 1%.
    I'm sure if it was within the law by now the DCC would have back tracked by now so it's time enda says yes or no cus my weekend planned for 2 weeks is costing a lot and leaving it this late is a joke!
    They say they made it 'clear', and because all aspects of this application are transparent I have no reason to disbelieve them. The Dail Committee hearings will be the DCC's opportunity to show that they flagged the issues, as I am sure they are precluded from releasing communications at this stage. Aiken and the GAA will also be able to show what they claim.


    The 'system' worked perfectly, for Aiken and the Residents. It doesn't matter how many people are upset, that can have nothing to do with the DCC, they did their jobs within the law of the land.
    You and others are asking us to believe that the DCC never flagged their concerns yet you claim there where discussions about 4 gigs being offered? Can you not see the contradiction there?
    Enda has no say in the matter, he himself has made that clear...NO INTERFERENCE FROM POLITICIANS, if you still think he can sort this you are deluded...he can't do anything legally.


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    #3374
    Titzon Toast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    CapricornOne wrote: »
    50 people protesting against "the system" outside the GPO :)

    Are they all wearing Stetsons?
    Should the residents around Croker be in fear for the wing mirrors on their cars?
    We need moar information damn it...


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    #3375
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The 'system' worked perfectly, for Aiken and the Residents. It doesn't matter how many people are upset, that can have nothing to do with the DCC, they did their jobs within the law of the land.
    You and others are asking us to believe that the DCC never flagged their concerns yet you claim there where discussions about 4 gigs being offered? Can you not see the contradiction there?
    Enda has no say in the matter, he himself has made that clear...NO INTERFERENCE FROM POLITICIANS, if you still think he can sort this you are deluded...he can't do anything legally.

    But the little fella there, and other posters don't care if he does it illegally, they just want him to do it

    CapricornOne wrote: »
    50 people protesting against "the system" outside the GPO :)

    I wonder if they're standing next to the protest about the Palestinian conflict, maybe, but probably not, it might make them realise that there are actually important, real things happening in the world that deserve their attention.


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    #3376
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I rang ticketmaster on Wednesday because I had bought tickets on my danske bank account, and since those accounts were closed in February, I phoned them to register my new bank account for my refund.

    I received my refund this morning- does this mean it's definitely over?

    As a matter of interest, which day was your ticket for? I wonder if they're started issuing refunds for the Monday/Tuesday, but not the first 3?


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    #3377
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,279 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    paulheu wrote: »
    Anyone here who understands the economics of concerts on this scale should understand that it's likely that the five gigs were needed to cover all expenses. These are multi million euro events which can't be paid from three dates. Also I find it amusing that the people who were the loudest in their complaining and b*tching now seems to try the hardest to express their disbelief they got their way and finding out they will cost the city around €50M on lost income because of it.

    Major artists like Brooks have to make their living off of these gigs, recording really doesn't bring home the bacon anymore and hasn't for years.

    Poor Garth Brooks, he's struggling for money. I thought it was about the fans with GB anyway, not the money?
    And he has 3 gigs, possibly 4. Considering he originally thought 2 was all he was getting so he'd be making a profit form that. 4 gigs would have been a massive profit for him. And I don't believe this extra big stage people are talking about can only be afforded if he gets 5 gigs.


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    #3378
    fta93
    Closed Accounts Posts: 306 ✭✭fta93


    I think this says it all. "Protesting" against cancelled concerts while a homeless man sits on watching. I guess it shows people's priorities.

    https://twitter.com/jim_sheridan/status/487929901761462272


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    #3379
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    I apologise in advance, I think the man is egotistical, but, sometimes when you are successful, and constantly have people tell you how great you are, it is easy to believe the hype, but that is all I think he is, I have no hatred or great dislike for him.

    But, this pun is now in my head and won't leave, so from now on I shall always remember this debacle as the battle of c*ntgarth.


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    #3380
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,534 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Your proud of a system that leaves 160,000 having licences for the concerts they held tickets to, cancelled three weeks before they were to take place, when thousands of hotels and flights have been booked? Your proud of a system that allows tickets to go on sale for concerts which not been licenced? Your proud of a system that grants three concerts above what residents and a venue agreed would? Your proud of a system that wants to pawn off 160,000 people with a scaled down show during the day when they have paid their money for a full show, with all the bells and whistles that those attending in the evening will get? Crikey.. they sure are strange things to be taking pride in.

    It's shambolic that a decision wasn't announced until three weeks before the concerts. DCC knew months ago that 400,000 tickets had been sold. If they had an inkling in their heads that there was a strong possibility that one or two concerts would be forbidden, then they should have indicated this to the promoters and ensured that an announcement was made months in advance : these were extraordinary circumstances affecting hundreds of thousands of people, including many from abroad.


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    #3381
    Titzon Toast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    Strazdas wrote: »
    It's shambolic that a decision wasn't announced until three weeks before the concerts. DCC knew months ago that 400,000 tickets had been sold. If they had an inkling in their heads that there was a strong possibility that one or two concerts would be forbidden, then they should have indicated this to the promoters and ensured that an announcement was made months in advance : these were extraordinary circumstances affecting hundreds of thousands of people, including many from abroad.

    Why should they have to do that? It was Aiken's responsibility to submit the application. DCC can't make decisions on things that haven't been put in front of them. It doesn't matter what they "knew". Strictly speaking, they knew nothing of these concerts.
    You are blaming the wrong people.


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    #3382
    amkin25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭amkin25


    Strazdas wrote: »
    It's shambolic that a decision wasn't announced until three weeks before the concerts. DCC knew months ago that 400,000 tickets had been sold. If they had an inkling in their heads that there was a strong possibility that one or two concerts would be forbidden, then they should have indicated this to the promoters and ensured that an announcement was made months in advance : these were extraordinary circumstances affecting hundreds of thousands of people, including many from abroad.

    I would have sympathies with the residents,but for the life of me i cannot understand either how something wasn't brought up before now,the whole country knew there was tickets sold for 5 concerts,why was it allowed get this far.


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    #3383
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    amkin25 wrote: »
    I would have sympathies with the residents,but for the life of me i cannot understand either how something wasn't brought up before now,the whole country knew there was tickets sold for 5 concerts,why was it allowed get this far.

    And the 'whole' country knew there where problems from the get go...why are Aiken/GAA being exonerated?

    How is it credible that they didn't know that there was potentially an issue with this?


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    #3384
    amkin25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭amkin25


    Titzon Toast wrote: »
    Why should they have to do that? It was Aiken's responsibility to submit the application. DCC can't make decisions on things that haven't been put in front of them. It doesn't matter what they "knew". Strictly speaking, they knew nothing of these concerts.
    You are blaming the wrong people.

    I would agree with you Aiken is to blame as much or more,but just because Aiken was wrong doesn't mean the DCC had to be as bad as him,they knew the tickets were sold as the whole place knew whether the application was made or not,and they said nothing to nobody it seems.


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    #3385
    fta93
    Closed Accounts Posts: 306 ✭✭fta93


    paddyirish23 wrote: »
    really hope this won't effect the rugby world cup bid happening soon!

    I've gone over this countless times with many many people. It will have no effect whatsoever.

    Croke Park is a sports stadium. It can host as many sports events as it likes because that's it's purpose.

    Also the IRB aren't a pack of fools like certain people involved in bringing Garth to Ireland.

    And no matter what people say, it's not embarrassing the country or reputation. What is embarrassing it, is the politicians wanting to change laws for a quick buck, and seeing Irish people protest at a few gigs while most countries are protesting about mass murder in Gaza.


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    #3386
    amkin25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭amkin25


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And the 'whole' country knew there where problems from the get go...why are Aiken/GAA being exonerated?

    How is it credible that they didn't know that there was potentially an issue with this?

    I think Aiken did know there was a potential issue with it which is why they left it late to put in the application,so as to apply the most pressure possible on DCC so it would seem like they had no choice,sort of force their hand given the pressure of so many people already booked they figured the DCC would have no choice.


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    #3387
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    amkin25 wrote: »
    I would agree with you Aiken is to blame as much or more,but just because Aiken was wrong doesn't mean the DCC had to be as bad as him,they knew the tickets were sold as the whole place knew whether the application was made or not,and they said nothing to nobody it seems.

    The fact that 'tickets were sold' has nothing to do with granting a licence.
    The claim that they said 'nothing' is only coming from Aiken and Croke Park...thy would say that, wouldn't they? Treat that claim with the suspicion it deserves.


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    #3388
    Peppa Pig
    Registered Users Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭Peppa Pig


    amkin25 wrote: »
    I would have sympathies with the residents,but for the life of me i cannot understand either how something wasn't brought up before now,the whole country knew there was tickets sold for 5 concerts,why was it allowed get this far.
    Aiken knew there were resident concerns immediately the tickets for 4 and 5 went on sale - they even talked about legal actions to stop the concerts.
    Yet he chose to wait and wait before submitting a licence application and never bothered to even speak to the residents.

    In the licence submission he talks about consultations with the community. This was a questionnaire sent to 27,000 houses asking for opinions - in April :rolleyes:

    Residents complain in Fenruary


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    #3389
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,279 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    fta93 wrote: »
    I think this says it all. "Protesting" against cancelled concerts while a homeless man sits on watching. I guess it shows people's priorities.

    https://twitter.com/jim_sheridan/status/487929901761462272

    Early in this whole sorry story, GB fans were saying Ireland is an embarrassment the way it's handling this situation. Well, they were finally proved right.


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    #3390
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    fta93 wrote: »
    I think this says it all. "Protesting" against cancelled concerts while a homeless man sits on watching. I guess it shows people's priorities.

    https://twitter.com/jim_sheridan/status/487929901761462272

    I can see the contrast but it has nothing with it.

    Could say the same for protesting water charges while people are dying in Palestine, etc.


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    #3391
    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭Wishiwasa Littlebitaller


    amkin25 wrote: »
    I think Aiken did know there was a potential issue with it which is why they left it late to put in the application,so as to apply the most pressure possible on DCC so it would seem like they had no choice,sort of force their hand given the pressure of so many people already booked they figured the DCC would have no choice.

    Then why not wait until the ten week deadline?

    I mean, some around here would have us believe that the DCC can't even make decision for ten weeks, "by law", and so 80,000 happy fans would have been filing into Croke Park to enjoy the first concert by the time the DCC could legally refuse the licences, had that is, cheekily Aiken snuck the applications in just under the deadline ;)


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