Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

Daith

First Up wrote: »

Mother of Jaysus.... What is so wrong with getting people around a table and discussing it like adults?

Maybe in a big tent in Galway?

Calina

First Up wrote: »

Mother of Jaysus.... What is so wrong with getting people around a table and discussing it like adults?

Because you only want one answer and that's not a discussion, that's a demand. That's not discussing things like adults.

It's not hard.

Menas

A few things have become clear over the past few months.

First is that selling tickets subject to licence has become a lot more risky now than in the past where the licence was nearly always granted. Apparently it is not legal to do so but as it is such common practice this law seems moot.

Second is that for a series of events of this size you need to allow much longer than 6 months from selling tickets to hosting event under the current planning laws. Ireland is simply not geared under current rules to do this. If you follow the letter of the law then the promoter need to agree a deal with the venue and artist. Then announce the gigs, submit a planning application and wait 10 weeks for the decision from the authorities. Then you can sell tickets. Then start pre production, ship equipment, build stage etc and host event. This all takes 9 months minimum IMO.

Third is that the planning laws do need to be updated if we want to prevent this type of debacle happening again. A pre consultation phase involving key stakeholders prior to putting tickets for sale would be very helpful. At least with this people buying tickets subject to licence will have a feel for the risk involved….as will the promoter, host venue and artist.
An appeal process would also be good…but again, there needs to be time in the process to allow this.

Sad as the no licence for 2 concerts is and the 3 concerts getting cancelled for the ticket holders and the city, hopefully we can learn from this and take steps to prevent it happening again.

secman

Strazdas wrote: »

It does seem like he retreated into a bureaucrat's mindset. As long as he followed everything to the letter of the law and followed due procedure, his ass would be covered and there would be no repercussions for him or DCC. But these were extraordinary circumstances and we've never seen two 80,000 seater concerts refused permission at the last moment like this before : he does appear to have been very complacent and not realised the enormity of where this could potentially go.

DCC did not want to create a precedent for 5 nights in a row. It's not Keegan' s concern that tickets were sold, he can't be swayed by that fact at all, nor should he be. We would then be in the position, sell as many tickets/ nights as possible, then the permits have to issue.

Daith

Strazdas wrote: »

He could have followed the letter of the law but also showed common sense. If he had made the announcement much earlier, it would have given all sides a chance to work their way around the problem.

He had to wait until the submission. Why didn't Aiken submit his application earlier?

Ace2007

Strazdas wrote: »

He could have followed the letter of the law but also showed common sense. If he had made the announcement much earlier, it would have given all sides a chance to work their way around the problem.

Please explain the work around around option?
GB said it was 5 nights in a row or none - there was going to be no flexibility with him.

Valetta

First Up wrote: »

Will it ever sink in that Keegan and DCC's responsibilities in this go well beyond administering a planning application?

What?

That's complete nonsense.

bumper234

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Better than some self serving political type who would make a decision based on votes rather than what's right.

First Up

Daith wrote: »

Maybe in a big tent in Galway?

Keegan's office would be fine.

Sideshow Mark

First Up wrote: »

I presume Brooks was going on what Aiken was telling him so I don't blame him for being surprised and piss#d off. The bald fact is that the people who KNEW the licence wouldn't be issued were DCC, and only DCC. Pretending the decision hadn't been taken is garbage - at a minimum they knew it was at grievous risk and the main - in fact only - reason quoted by Keegan was the resident objections. That very clearly pointed the way and if he was serious about promoting tourism, economic benefits etc he would have acted on that. Yet he let the ship drift on to the rocks with hands in pockets.
Wanker.

Everybody knew it was a risk. I went back in thread in the Gigs Forum to the time the additional dates were added. Almost the first post following that announcement was from someone saying that it would be difficult to get that through. Interestingly they were shouted down by GB fans saying it would be too big to cancel and that DCC would never stand up to big business. Clearly Aiken thought the same. Although if your opening arguement is "we're too big to fail", history has shown that you're probably going to fail.

My own view is that it's a shame, but 5 in a row was unlikely from the outset. Aiken should have found a more appropriate venue in the first place. Hopefully the govt will use this as an opportunity to revamp how tickets for large events are sold and that Croke Park will get a binding agreement set in stone with all relevant parties regarding how many shows can be held per year. So this never happens again.

brooke 2

nm wrote: »

Everyone that buys tickets for an event in Ireland is buying tickets to a concert that didnt even have a licence to go ahead yet

This GB fiasco has been an eye opener for a lot of people who were totally unaware
of the 'subject to licence' clause!

First Up

Valetta wrote: »

What?

That's complete nonsense.

So the City Manager has no responsibilities in things like Tourism, promoting business, building the city's image and the like?

Funny, I could have sworn I heard him agree that he had.

cournioni

Calina wrote: »

And proper order.

What you're proposing is that what matters is personal influence and not the rule of law.

This is extremely bad for the future of the country.

What exactly is the "letter of the law"? Where does it lawfully state that gigs at Croke Park have a limit of three consecutive dates? I could be wrong, but it seems that "discretion" is the key word in all of this.

Ace2007

First Up wrote: »

So the City Manager has no responsibilities in things like Tourism, promoting business, building the city's image and the like?

Funny, I could have sworn I heard him agree that he had.

Well maybe he listened to the Minister of Tourism who wrote a public letter supporting the residents in a fights against the concerts applications

dinorebel

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The alternative being elected officials in charge of planning how could it go wrong:eek:

Strazdas

secman wrote: »

DCC did not want to create a precedent for 5 nights in a row. It's not Keegan' s concern that tickets were sold, he can't be swayed by that fact at all, nor should he be. We would then be in the position, sell as many tickets/ nights as possible, then the permits have to issue.

That's absolutely fine, nobody is taking issue with his decision to permit three concerts but not five.

But the cancellation of two 80,000 seater concerts at the last moment with many people flying in from abroad for them was always going to be a public relations disaster. You would expect any city planner to treat something as big as this as a matter of extreme urgency and as a top priority.

Ace2007

cournioni wrote: »

What exactly is the "letter of the law"? Where does it lawfully state that gigs at Croke Park have a limit of three consecutive dates? I could be wrong, but it seems that "discretion" is the key word in all of this.

Did you read the planning act yet that I told you about where it clearly shows that Aiken broke the law by selling tickets without a licence?

cournioni

Ace2007 wrote: »

Have you read section 230 on the planning and development act of 2000?
Go read that and educate yourself -

How many promoters in Ireland have been fined/convicted of selling tickets without a license in the last, say 20 years? Go and educate yourself.

Daith

Ace2007 wrote: »

Did you read the planning act yet that I told you about where it clearly shows that Aiken broke the law by selling tickets without a licence?

But you are allowed to ignore the law as long as you are bringing money into the country!

brooke 2

kippy wrote: »

We've no idea whether the promoter was warned or not.

Aiken himself said in an interview that he was informed by the DCC when he TOLD them - not ASKED them - about the extra concerts that five would be 'pushing it'.

ArmaniJeanss

I haven't real all 24000 posts on the various threads about this so it may have been mentioned before.

Obvious solution is to cancel the concerts and give all ticket holders new tickets for a small GAA match that night instead as it appears there is no limit to the amount of sporting events that can take place.
GB can then do a 3 hour half time show that won't need a license.

Genius I believe.

Cabaal

brooke 2 wrote: »

This GB fiasco has been an eye opener for a lot of people who were totally unaware
of the 'subject to licence' clause!

Strange, any radio adverts I've heard mention a gig is subject to license. People also agree to terms.

People were made aware of the clause, they just chose to ignore it...

secman

Strazdas wrote: »

That's absolutely fine, nobody is taking issue with his decision to permit three concerts but not five.

But the cancellation of two 80,000 seater concerts at the last moment with many people flying in from abroad for them was always going to be a public relations disaster. You would expect any city planner to treat something as big as this as a matter of extreme urgency and as a top priority.

IT seems that you are contradicting yourself in your first sentence and your latter comment !

Ace2007

cournioni wrote: »

How many promoters in Ireland have been fined/convicted of selling tickets without a license in the last, say 20 years? Go and educate yourself.

So what your saying is

It is ok for everyone to break the law as no one has ever been prosecuted before?

There was a case recently in court where a man frape his ex gf fb page - this happens probably everyday in Ireland - judge didn't say ah well no one else had even being found guilty I'll let you off

It's simple if you break the law you are liabile to get in trouble.

brooke 2

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This had been a learning experience for most, I imagine.

cournioni

Ace2007 wrote: »

So what your saying is

It is ok for everyone to break the law as no one has ever been prosecuted before?

There was a case recently in court where a man frape his ex gf fb page - this happens probably everyday in Ireland - judge didn't say ah well no one else had even being found guilty I'll let you off

It's simple if you break the law you are liabile to get in trouble.

You said that you cannot sell or promote tickets without a license. The answer is, yes you can. It has been happening for years. Check some old ticket stubs if you don't believe me.

They have been doing this openly since I can remember going to concerts and even radio adverts stating "subject to license".

dandyo

Has the Mexican Ambassador been informed?

dandyo

dandyo wrote: »

Has the Mexican Ambassador been informed?

It's ok - I called him - he said "No es bueno"

Ace2007

cournioni wrote: »

You said that you cannot sell or promote tickets without a license. The answer is, yes you can. It has been happening for years. Check some old ticket stubs if you don't believe me.

They have been doing this openly since I can remember going to concerts and even radio adverts stating "subject to license".

Doesn't matter how long they have being doing it

Read section 230 of the act it clearly states that it is an offence to sell tickets or promote an event without a licence.

Cyclists openly break the traffic lights and have been for years - does this mean it's acceptable and ok to do?

First Up

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I haven't real all 24000 posts on the various threads about this so it may have been mentioned before.

Obvious solution is to cancel the concerts and give all ticket holders new tickets for a small GAA match that night instead as it appears there is no limit to the amount of sporting events that can take place.
GB can then do a 3 hour half time show that won't need a license.

Genius I believe.

But the pitch will be in use, so better make it a handball tournament that can be shown on the big screen....