Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

muddypaws

My name is URL wrote: »

Way too long, for what it is =p

Posts-counts for each poster in any given thread are visible by clicking the number of replies to each thread on the main page of the forum. The rest is just going from memory and whether or not they appeared to generally oppose or support the concerts.

There's a couple I'm not sure of so I put them down as 'for' just to be safe.

You learn something new every day

I'm surprised you didn't collate the stats from the first thread that was closed, and the rural/urban GB thread, just for accuracy

Jimfo1970

AngryHippie wrote: »

Why even post that.....
unless its spurious tripe?
an effort to bump the thread ?
Maybe you want someone to ask you what you private information is?
Maybe you want someone to ask you what the damage will be?

Your information thus far has been mediocre at best, and the processes applied to the information have been distinctly lacklustre.

Time for Godwins Law - Garth Brooks is a nazi !

Woohoo, lock it up, shut it down, normal service may be resume !

What we need is George Redmond back in power !!! George would sort it.

My name is URL

muddypaws wrote: »

Sorry, I was not opposed to the gigs. Three gigs were given licences, I would have loved them to have gone ahead.

My bad!

There may be some margin of error =p

muddypaws wrote: »

I'm surprised you didn't collate the stats from the first thread that was closed, and the rural/urban GB thread, just for accuracy

Feck that for a game of toy soldiers.. there's no room left for accuracy

muddypaws

My name is URL wrote: »

My bad!

There may be some margin of error =p

Well you know, accuracy and all that (says she, pushing her post count up even more) :P

cournioni

bumper234 wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but did the gardai state this before or after the licences were granted for 3 nights?

I'm not sure on that one, the definitely stated it after. What does that matter either way?

RoyalCelt

AngryHippie wrote: »

Because he only gets to be as good as he is by being a ruthless tyrant.
It's not about "who's to say" its about your statement flying entirely in the face of logic, reason and precedent.


The ****ty system that got the country in this mess is largely to do with fcuking idiot voters, blind greed, incompetence and a culture of gombeenism. He is clever enough to know that 1 man is never going to change that, and far to smart to get involved in that battle. He enjoys being a bit of a bastard too much to bother with the popularity contest that is our electoral system.




wtf are you even talking about ?
too many layers of never going to happen for it to be considered.

IF my aunt had balls, and was my billionaire uncle, he/she/it could pay for everyones water and property speculation and social welfare and we could all live happily ever after in the shadow of his/her/its tuft.

If you are going to have a fantasy, try not to involve 4 million people in it. It's a recipe for disappointment and lost generations

The person who that was in reply to (possibly you) brought up all those what ifs so don't pull a fit with me for going on about them. You call him a tyrant I call him a very good business man who runs a very profitable airline. I enjoy flying with ryanair having exclusively been with aer lingus for my whole life pre recession. I won't go back if times get good again as it's a grand well priced service unless you're a stuck up git.

So please don't pull a hissy fit with me when it wasn't mw who brought up Mr O'Leary in the first place.

RoyalCelt

Earlier in the thread people posted about residents going after the AI finals now. Any truth in that or just pure lies?

kippy

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Earlier in the thread people posted about residents going after the AI finals now. Any truth in that or just pure lies?

Pure lies.

Sir Arthur Daley

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Earlier in the thread people posted about residents going after the AI finals now. Any truth in that or just pure lies?

What has artificial insemination of animals got to do with garth brooks?

cournioni

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Well there's no point in going over all the arguments again. As you suggest planning permission for these events is at the discretion of the officials. Those are the rules. Would you prefer it was left up to politicians and promoters? As I've said politicians have put officials in this position because it suits them. If it was for them to decide then they'd also have to take responsibility, as ever rather than change or reform the system they prefer to circumvent it. Kind of like bootleggers and prohibition.

They are the rules alright, and they are in the hands of somebody who has previous for suiting his own agenda. Just look at what the cycle lanes have done for Dun Laoghaire. His new proposals are going to ruin the quays and cause traffic chaos in Dublin city. No doubt they'll be pushed through despite what I would imagine will be a far higher amount of objections than those in Croke Park.

While he was manager for Dun Laoghaire Rathdown he was also responsible for overseeing what locals call a monstrosity of a library that cost €36 million and ruins the skyline of the town, and then cut homeless budget by €6million immediately after. Were the objections to this library/council building dealt with in the same way as the Croke Park concerts? Did they go through the same rigorous process? A lot of people seem to be unhappy about it.

His sidekick in the DCC Keoghan has vested interest in the planning and licensing of the Croke Park concerts as he owns a house "in the shadow of Croke Park", rented by his immediate family. To think that Keegan had the cheek to ask anybody on the Dail Committee with links to the GAA "whether they would be required to absent themselves" from the Committee meeting today.

Are these really the people that we should have making decisions on major national events like this one was going to be? I don't think so.

roshje

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

What has artificial insemination of animals got to do with garth brooks?

Just a load of bull:pac:

AngryHippie

Strazdas wrote: »

Michael O'Leary's take on the whole affair : "The concerts should be fixed (go ahead). It's an absurdity that you have some bureaucrat in Dublin City Council......people should be let go to the concerts, it's bizarre, it wouldn't happen in any other country in the world".

RoyalCelt wrote: »

The person who that was in reply to (possibly you) brought up all those what ifs so don't pull a fit with me for going on about them. You call him a tyrant I call him a very good business man who runs a very profitable airline. I enjoy flying with ryanair having exclusively been with aer lingus for my whole life pre recession. I won't go back if times get good again as it's a grand well priced service unless you're a stuck up git.

So please don't pull a hissy fit with me when it wasn't mw who brought up Mr O'Leary in the first place.

Possibly, But wrong.

Then you raised a nonsensical point about his airline comparing a private business to the running of a country, I posted some valid information pointing out the holes in your comparison.
So now I've pulled a hissy fit ?

Possibly, But wrong again.

cournioni

AngryHippie wrote: »

Possibly, But wrong.

Then you raised a nonsensical point about his airline comparing a private business to the running of a country, I posted some valid information pointing out the holes in your comparison.
So now I've pulled a hissy fit ?

Possibly, But wrong again.

Christ on a bike (pardon the pun)! How is he wrong?

AngryHippie

cournioni wrote: »

Christ on a bike (pardon the pun)! How is he wrong?

As shown, Strazdas was the one to originally bring MO'L into the discussion.

Wrong that I brought it up in the first place.

My original response was to some gibbering about MO'L hypothetically preventing the financial collapse and somehow managing to run the country in a heroic budgetary surplus fashion. Which as I pointed out is either fantasy, or wild speculation.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Pwindedd wrote: »

In the name of all that is holy can we please CLOSE THE FCUKING THREAD...it's going nowhere - at an alarming rate of knots.

No way, not before the Oireachtas tomorrow with Aikens and the GAA

cournioni

AngryHippie wrote: »

As shown, Strazdas was the one to originally bring MO'L into the discussion.

Wrong that I brought it up in the first place.

My original response was to some gibbering about MO'L hypothetically preventing the financial collapse and somehow managing to run the country in a heroic budgetary surplus fashion. Which as I pointed out is either fantasy, or wild speculation.

As opposed to what Mr Owen Keegan has done to his beloved Dun Laoghaire during his tenure? The place is on it's knees with hundreds of shop closures. Yup, exactly the man you need running the country as opposed to Michael O'Leary who is one of the worlds most successful business men.

At least O'Leary pointed the Croke Park concert situation out for what it was. The only problem is, Keegan is only a bureaucrat when it suits him.

A V A

aikens fault. Brooks is a clown. cannot blame the dcc or the gaa

AngryHippie

cournioni wrote: »

As opposed to what Mr Owen Keegan has done to his beloved Dun Laoghaire during his tenure? The place is on it's knees with hundreds of shop closures. Yup, exactly the man you need running the country as opposed to Michael O'Leary who is one of the worlds most successful business men.

At least O'Leary pointed the Croke Park concert situation out for what it was. The only problem is, Keegan is only a bureaucrat when it suits him.

Keegan isn't exactly running the country. If anyone can lay claim to that position, it's been the Troika for quite a while. The Goms in Leinster House and DCC are just shuffling the deckchairs around in accordance with the rules they are given, and with the budget they are handed down.

cournioni

AngryHippie wrote: »

Keegan isn't exactly running the country. If anyone can lay claim to that position, it's been the Troika for quite a while. The Goms in Leinster House and DCC are just shuffling the deckchairs around in accordance with the rules they are given, and with the budget they are handed down.

Thankfully not, but he is making his mark on a good part of it. I wonder how much his decisions over the past few years has cost the respective areas. The cycle lanes and parking restrictions in Dun Laoghaire driving people away to shop in Dundrum, the library, these concerts and next up will be the cycle lanes on the quays in Dublin.

AngryHippie

cournioni wrote: »

Thankfully not, but he is making his mark on a good part of it. I wonder how much his decisions over the past few years has cost the respective areas. The cycle lanes in Dun Laoghaire driving people away to shop in Dundrum, the library, these concerts and next up will be the cycle lanes on the quays in Dublin.

So the retail precinct investment in Dundrum itself had nothing to do with that ?

I haven't seen the cycle lanes, nor read much about them, but in most parts of the world they are seen as being relatively progressive and as a general improvement to urban centers and road safety in the area.

I'm also of the opinion that you give his position credit for having too much power, the processes are still subjected to feasibility, delivery and outcome examination and design procedures, its not just like he wake up one morning with a pencil and a good idea. There are layers of approvals and studies done where public expenditure is concerned, and the fact that he doesn't seem to be ignoring these is now problematic because of some music fanatics ?

goz83

Phoebas wrote: »

In other words. Apply the rules to the next guy"

FYP

Pretty much. Tickets were sold with an expectation that the concerts would "as usual" go ahead as planned. But, no, the council decides to act the maggot for one of the most significant concerts to be played at the stadium. Whether you're for, or against Brooks, is not the issue here. 400,000 tickets were sold in record time and this was a boost for the economy as a whole.

As I understand it, the council took their sweet ass time on this and decided not to overturn the decision, even though the primary reasons for refusing the licenses for the two final concerts were seen to be a conflict of interest (in the case of a certain person having family living beside croker) and a farcical number of bogus objections, including forged signatures. If they were able to undo their decision and allow 4 out of 5 concerts, then why not just push the envelope and allow the other concert to go ahead?

Once again, Ireland is seen as backwards.

Happyman42

cournioni wrote: »

Thankfully not, but he is making his mark on a good part of it. I wonder how much his decisions over the past few years has cost the respective areas. The cycle lanes in Dun Laoghaire driving people away to shop in Dundrum, the library, these concerts and next up will be the cycle lanes on the quays in Dublin.

Not from the area or Dublin County and I took the time to read about the library and all I can find are the usual time honoured complaints about modern buildings that you get all around the globe.

Happyman42

goz83 wrote: »

FYP

Pretty much. Tickets were sold with an expectation that the concerts would "as usual" go ahead as planned. But, no, the council decides to act the maggot for one of the most significant concerts to be played at the stadium. Whether you're for, or against Brooks, is not the issue here. 400,000 tickets were sold in record time and this was a boost for the economy as a whole.

As I understand it, the council took their sweet ass time on this and decided not to overturn the decision, even though the primary reasons for refusing the licenses for the two final concerts were seen to be a conflict of interest (in the case of a certain person having family living beside croker) and a farcical number of bogus objections, including forged signatures. If they were able to undo their decision and allow 4 out of 5 concerts, then why not just push the envelope and allow the other concert to go ahead?

Once again, Ireland is seen as backwards.

The tickets where sold by 'the promoter, not DCC, who CANNOT allows uch things to influence their decision. (Think about it rationally for a moment and imagine what a mess the country would be if that was the case...OH WAIT, remember the Tiger?)

No they didn't take their time, you understand wrongly, the last draft Event Management Plan submitted in mitigation by Aiken was on the 29th June and the decision was delivered on 5th July.

If you look at the actual reasons for refusing 2 gigs there is no conflict of interest. And planners live and know people in the communities they administer all over the country and the world. We haven't found aliens that are qualified in planning yet. :rolleyes:

the forgeries have been covered at length here, there are 11 confirmed forgeries that where discarded. All other figure are guesswork until the gardai finish their inquiries an comment on it.

Keegan addressed the issue of the 4 gigs offer and aid he was under phenomenal pressure from vested interests and it was a mistake to do it. It was refused anyway by ultimatum toting Brooks.

No we are not seen as backwards by anybody who realises that this is a complex matter and not - big bad rules versus the cutesy country singer.

p.s. my only criticism of Keegan here is that he didn't tell them all to f8uck off after the decision was made, especially when Brooks tried to apply his pressure.

AngryHippie

goz83 wrote: »

FYP
Tickets were sold with an expectation that the concerts would "as usual" go ahead

That is the crux of the matter right there. The venue has its usage limits, these were known by all parties on the organizing side.

If council let it happen, either a court injunction would have prevented it, or it would have set a precedent, for another 5 day extravaganza of concerts at a later stage and further hand wringing and whinging about how GB got to do it.

the rest was the "artist's" decision

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

brooke 2 wrote: »

Well done to Keegan for standing his ground.

Standing his ground? :P

The guy did so much jumping from one spot to the other, that I'm bloody certain, were he to enter the world hopscotch championships.. he'd be a fecking shoe-in.

RoyalCelt

cba finding the posts but you put up some crap that's not true about michael o'leary. the ball ends there. he's a great business man and a decent bloke from what i can make of him. his airline is also brilliant value for the customer and unless you're higher than mighty you won't compare about the cheaper service you get with them. Don't see why you had a dig with him. You've obv got a chip on your shoulder regarding him. Probably jealous of his success or don't like his sense of humour.

whatever floats your boat but i see why you called yourself an angry hippie now.

bumper234

cournioni wrote: »

I'm not sure on that one, the definitely stated it after. What does that matter either way?

Because traffic disruption to the area on week nights would have been one of the (if not the) main factors in the decision process, how would Keegan et al know that the gardai think this wouldn't be an issue if they didn't know that they felt this way?

AngryHippie

RoyalCelt wrote: »

cba finding the posts but you put up some crap that's not true about michael o'leary. the ball ends there.

Not a single thing. Not sure how a ball ends. Fat lady singing?

RoyalCelt wrote: »

he's a great business man and a decent bloke from what i can make of him. his airline is also brilliant value for the customer and unless you're higher than mighty you won't compare about the cheaper service you get with them.

Never disputed that he's a successful business man, and I don't know the chap from Adam, so I can't comment as to his decency, I've rarely complained about Ryanair, they do exactly what is said on the tin, but the reason for the success is definitely a ruthless hard nosed business approach, see the various dealings with unions and staff for more information (No I've never worked for them, and no I never will)

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Don't see why you had a dig with him. You've obv got a chip on your shoulder regarding him. Probably jealous of his success or don't like his sense of humour.

No chips over here, I wish him every success in his life, and I don't begrudge him anything, on the other hand I don't hero-worship him, or try to portray him as anything other than what he proves himself to be. I actually do enjoy his tongue in cheek wit and his constant digs at the establishment, but what is conspicuously absent from these contributions is constructive suggestions, he pays his taxes which is more than can be said for many successful businessmen.

RoyalCelt wrote: »

whatever floats your boat but i see why you called yourself an angry hippie now.

I'm sick of hero-worship of people with power, and the outrage that follows when they inevitably make a balls of something. We are all human, and unfortunately are current efforts at self governance invite the wrong type of mind to public office.
Our Western Culture with its cache of celebrity further ingrains this hero-worship and outrage bull****e into our lives and convinces us that we need role models and masters to follow. It weakens us as a species, as it means our collective efforts will only ever achieve the aims of those that direct them, and they have inevitably been aimed for the benefit and self gratification of that same individual's desires.
People need to decide on their own priorities in life, and they need to take responsibility to inform themselves well enough to make these decisions. It's fine to put the ability to read write count and speak coherently in the responsibilities of governance, but critical thinking just gets mashed beneath the weight of the status quo and the distractions of our so-called culture.

But I digress....

Name change suggestions are welcome !

Reformed Character

cournioni wrote: »

As opposed to what Mr Owen Keegan has done to his beloved Dun Laoghaire during his tenure?

.

cournioni wrote: »

The cycle lanes in Dun Laoghaire driving people away to shop in Dundrum, the library, these concerts and next up will be the cycle lanes on the quays in Dublin.

You do realise that Owen Keegan has zero authority in Dun Laoghaire as it is controlled by Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council?

TommyKnocker

Reformed Character wrote: »

You do realise that Owen Keegan has zero authority in Dun Laoghaire as it is controlled by Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council?

https://www.esri.ie/%28RoxenUserID=22d5bfb9887c7903283116dc15d63181%29/staff/esri_fellowship_holders_1/view/index.xml?id=1787


Owen P. Keegan

Owen P. Keegan was a T.K. Whitaker Fellow at the ESRI from 1983 until 1984. After leaving the ESRI, he worked in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government before moving to DKM Economic Consultants in 1987. In 1993 he was appointed Assistant City Manager in Dublin City Council and became the City's first Director of Traffic in 1997. In 2006 he was appointed County Manager in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council.