Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

vitani

It's amazing that Aiken didn't have any kind of contingency plan in place in case the licensing was turned down. They knew the residents had threatened legal action from the beginning - how arrogant do you have to be to not even prepare for the fact that they might be successful? Unless it was Brooks himself who refused to budge on the arrangements. I wonder whose idea the 'five nights or none' statement was - did Aiken think it would force the DCC into reconsidering or did Brooks just take it upon himself to issue it.

miss no stars

Muahahaha wrote: »

Large slabs of blame here really must lie with the GAA. There is a different president in place now and it seems he doesn't like that pesky 2009 agreement made by his predecessor. 50% of this problem has been the manner in which the GAA have approached the problem, they knew the residents concerns since the three U2 concerts in 2009. They made an agreement but now the new President doesn't want to follow it. If he wanted to secure 8 concerts instead of 3 then it was possible. They could have sat down properly and in good faith with the residents last Janurary and explained that Garth Brooks is big and very few artists in the world could sell it out 5 times and they promise that 8 concerts is a one off and it would defintely back to three from now on and we'll also be setting up that legacy fund too. If the GAA had of done all that back in Janurary then we wouldn't be sitting where we are now. But they didn't because the GAA saw benefit to Aikens plan. They wanted to push the boundaries of intensification of a sporting venue to a concert venue. Aiken holding five Garth Brooks concerts allowed them to do that so they hopped along for the ride whilst ignoring the residents. They got arrogant and now they're circling the wagons ans saying 'nothing to see here, move along now' without shouldering any of the responsibility or at least acknowledging that they didn't set about their objectives in the smartest of ways.

Completely agree with this. Some residents would still grumble, but if the GAA were actually properly managing crowds at big events, who would be complaining? Seriously, have 2 routes in and out that lead to massive amounts of extra public transport on, from where people can disperse. Don't leave people to wander around small residential streets pissing on hall doors and jumping on cars. There's a genuine precedent for anti-social behaviour from people attending events at Croke Park, why wouldn't the residents object to 5 nights in a row of noise, being locked in and the risk of anti-social behaviour? But if the anti-social behaviour was cracked down on and transport to and from the venue was sorted so that people WEREN'T parking abandoning their cars anywhere they liked meaning that the residents weren't so badly disrupted, you're left with just the noise. Most people could deal with the noise if that was the only serious disruption.

This issue didn't appear out of nowhere, it stemmed from years of the GAA giving the residents the two fingered salute.

Lemlin

I don't really give a toss about this whole debacle other than the amount of revenue that is being lost to the country. Just thought I'd throw this point in as I hadn't heard it previously and found it interesting:

Apparently the agreement is that three concerts are allowed without licence. These were the One Direction concerts. Subsequent concerts then require that a licence is sought.

There is no agreement about a maximum number of concerts per year. The only agreement is that a licence will be sought for any above three.

TimeToShine

seamus wrote: »

Pretty much.

Aiken made a big mistake, but Brooks has shown himself up to be nothing more than a money-grabber in this with no respect for his fans.

A true artist who respected his fans would do the 3 nights and if the stage show is too big, then walk out on the stage with a band and a guitar and nothing more and the crowd will still go fncking wild.

Allegedly he told Aiken that he didn't want to disappoint 160,000 ticket holders. So he's decided to disappoint all 400,000 instead.

The primary person to blame here is the greedy and egomaniacal Garth Brooks. I'm kind of glad now that we won't be funding his childish nonsense.

:rolleyes:

I don't even like the fella but how is it "greedy" to cancel all of the concerts? Do you not realize he makes no money that way?

He's the third best selling artist in US history behind The Beatles and Elvis, he has lost hundreds of millions by refusing to let his music be sold via iTunes/YT etc. and has stuck to his guns. He's about to announce a massive comeback world tour. I really don't think a few bob from 2 concerts had that much of an effect on his decision.

He may have been trying to bluff, but now that his bluff has been called at least he stuck with it. I may be one of the few who doesn't care for him but understands where he's coming from by cancelling all of the shows. As far as he's concerned DCC and the residents are the bullies here.

humanji

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Yes, if nobody was affected there would be no problem. But people are affected. It's a bit like ... Without that one objector next door, my four story extension could have gone ahead, no problem.....

Or "and I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids and that dumb dog!"

AudreyHepburn

muddypaws wrote: »

But surely if that was the case, then they would have accepted the compo that they were offered?

Apparently it amounted to something like €18 per household, not at lot really.

I'd fully expect them to refuse it and demand more tbh.

zagmund

TimeToShine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don't even like the fella but how is it "greedy" to cancel all of the concerts? Do you not realize he makes no money that way?

Do you really think he's just this dude who thought it might be fun to come to Ireland to do a few gigs and he's going to make no money or lose money on this deal?

You will find he has a management company behind him, and you will find that (unless they are a truly terrible management company) the contract would have been written in such a way that he can't lose money on the deal. Someone will lose money, that's for sure, but I doubt very much it would be him.

z

Cienciano

TimeToShine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don't even like the fella but how is it "greedy" to cancel all of the concerts? Do you not realize he makes no money that way?

He's the third best selling artist in US history behind The Beatles and Elvis, he has lost hundreds of millions by refusing to let his music be sold via iTunes/YT etc. and has stuck to his guns. He's about to announce a massive comeback world tour. I really don't think a few bob from 2 concerts had that much of an effect on his decision.

He may have been trying to bluff, but now that his bluff has been called at least he stuck with it. I may be one of the few who doesn't care for him but understands where he's coming from by cancelling all of the shows. As far as he's concerned DCC and the residents are the bullies here.

It's greedy because he's throwing a strop cos he can't play all shows. I said in the other thread, it's like a kid on MTV's Sweet Sixteen getting a Lexus instead of a Merc for her birthday. She throws a strop and saying she doesn't want the Lexus. That doesn't make her greedy though, does it?

Why is he not selling his songs on itunes? I did a bit of research, and the reason is similar to his irish concerts. He won't get a high enough percentage, so he'd rather no percentage. It's a case of "Do you know who I am? I'm Garth Brooks, I can do what I want, and I get what I want".
He really does come across as a spoilt rich teenager, and it's slightly worrying that the people he's fúcking over (the fans who bought tickets) are the ones that are defending.

conorhal

Muahahaha wrote: »

Large slabs of blame here really must lie with the GAA. There is a different president in place now and it seems he doesn't like that pesky 2009 agreement made by his predecessor. 50% of this problem has been the manner in which the GAA have approached the problem, they knew the residents concerns since the three U2 concerts in 2009. They made an agreement but now the new President doesn't want to follow it. If he wanted to secure 8 concerts instead of 3 then it was possible. They could have sat down properly and in good faith with the residents last Janurary and explained that Garth Brooks is big and very few artists in the world could sell it out 5 times and they promise that 8 concerts is a one off and it would defintely back to three from now on and we'll also be setting up that legacy fund too. If the GAA had of done all that back in Janurary then we wouldn't be sitting where we are now. But they didn't because the GAA saw benefit to Aikens plan. They wanted to push the boundaries of intensification of a sporting venue to a concert venue. Aiken holding five Garth Brooks concerts allowed them to do that so they hopped along for the ride whilst ignoring the residents. They got arrogant and now they're circling the wagons ans saying 'nothing to see here, move along now' without shouldering any of the responsibility or at least acknowledging that they didn't set about their objectives in the smartest of ways.

This is absolutely spot on. It was attempt to leverage a precedent off the back of a special event that they assumed would be rubber stamped. It was pure sleeven greed.
This was of course standard in planning applications during the boom, every application was compliant, every application has shops, green spaces, gym’s and social amenities when they went before the planning board, and then as soon as planning permission was granted in principle the builders were back to say that the plan wasn’t economically viable but it would be if we ditch the social amenities and convert the shops to apartments. Of course the planners buckled, and of course the builders just happening to have alternate plans there in their back pocket just for such an eventuality.
In other words it became expected that planning could be flaunted and substandard builds would be permitted. The GAA and Aitkin were banking on business as usual.
I was gobsmacked to hear Aitkin doing the beal bocht on RTE this morning and I was disgusted that the presenter never bothered to ask him, ‘I assume a major event planner like yourself would be fully aware of how many licensed gigs were permitted each year at Croke Park and how many had already taken place, what exactly made you think that you would be granted a rubber stamp on a 200% increase on that number?’

cml387

Why can't we send Tommy Gorman over to Las Vegas to intercede.

"Think of the children Gareth"

Benji1974

This is a typical Irish story in every way!

From the endemic corruption and vested interests that meant an 80,000+ seat stadium could be rebuilt in a densely populated residential area, to the arrogance and bullying tactics of the powerful GAA, then the immature overreaction when things go wrong resulting in lashing out at and blaming the wrong people.

There is a train line which runs under the stadium but no stop! No park-and-ride facilities are in place for events, parking of buses everywhere and ineffective policing and no efforts ever made to rectify these planning errors. And people wonder the residents objected.

The blame here lies solely with the almighty Croke Park/ GAA who were convinced (and led the promoters to believe) that five nights would be approved once the ball was set in motion. They were overruled (a first I think?), hopefully it’s a sign that things are changing. DCC made the right decision and have hopefully put manners on Croke Park management.

All this nonsense about Ireland being a laughing stock because of this is just manipulation and scaremongering – very few people outside of Ireland know or care about this stupid concert.

muddypaws

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Apparently it amounted to something like €18 per household, not at lot really.

I'd fully expect them to refuse it and demand more tbh.

And did they, in all of the talks, did they ask for more money?

humanji

TimeToShine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don't even like the fella but how is it "greedy" to cancel all of the concerts? Do you not realize he makes no money that way?

Did he not agree to 3 gigs originally? If he was willing to not make money then, what's changed?

TimeToShine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Apparently it amounted to something like €18 per household, not at lot really.

I'd fully expect them to refuse it and demand more tbh.

The money was never for the households, it was for the communal fund to improve the facilities in the area. Arguing in terms of how much per household is pointless.

TimeToShine

humanji wrote: »

Did he not agree to 3 gigs originally? If he was willing to not make money then, what's changed?

I didn't say he was willing to not make money, I said his actions are not motivated directly by money. There's a difference.

It's just my 2c, It pains me to say he'll make plenty of money regardless of what happens in Ireland anyway.

Billy Suffolk

I nominate Mr Keegan for "person of the Year'.

Not for p*****ng off the concert goers and fans but for making a decision and sticking to it.Refusing to be bullied by vested interests.

A quality not too apparent in Irish society most of the time.

TimeToShine

zagmund wrote: »

Do you really think he's just this dude who thought it might be fun to come to Ireland to do a few gigs and he's going to make no money or lose money on this deal?

You will find he has a management company behind him, and you will find that (unless they are a truly terrible management company) the contract would have been written in such a way that he can't lose money on the deal. Someone will lose money, that's for sure, but I doubt very much it would be him.

z

He'll still make a lot less than if he played. The tickets are being refunded.

Cienciano wrote: »

It's greedy because he's throwing a strop cos he can't play all shows. I said in the other thread, it's like a kid on MTV's Sweet Sixteen getting a Lexus instead of a Merc for her birthday. She throws a strop and saying she doesn't want the Lexus. That doesn't make her greedy though, does it?

Why is he not selling his songs on itunes? I did a bit of research, and the reason is similar to his irish concerts. He won't get a high enough percentage, so he'd rather no percentage. It's a case of "Do you know who I am? I'm Garth Brooks, I can do what I want, and I get what I want".
He really does come across as a spoilt rich teenager, and it's slightly worrying that the people he's fúcking over (the fans who bought tickets) are the ones that are defending.

The fans may be suffering from a bit of Stockholm Syndrome alright but I don't care for the man at all. I'm just saying I can rationalize his viewpoint to some extent. Of course to say money has no impact is naive but I don't think it's the primary motivator like people claim.

Also WRT iTunes I believe it's because he wants people to listen to his albums as a collective piece, rather than just download the singles.

conorhal

Billy Suffolk wrote: »

I nominate Mr Keegan for "person of the Year'.

Not for p*****ng off the concert goers and fans but for making a decision and sticking to it.Refusing to be bullied by vested interests.

A quality not too apparent in Irish society most of the time.

I'd agree, but after handing him the award, I want to see him strung up for suggesting that the north quays should be a cycle lane.

AudreyHepburn

muddypaws wrote: »

And did they, in all of the talks, did they ask for more money?

Well they did keep refusing the €500,000 they were offered and insisting it wasn't enough.

TimeToShine

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well they did keep refusing the €500,000 they were offered and insisting it wasn't enough.

Greed. They had them over a barrel and they knew it.

mrsbyrne

Benji1974 wrote: »

This is a typical Irish story in every way!

From the endemic corruption and vested interests that meant an 80,000+ seat stadium could be rebuilt in a densely populated residential area, to the arrogance and bullying tactics of the powerful GAA, then the immature overreaction when things go wrong resulting in lashing out at and blaming the wrong people.

There is a train line which runs under the stadium but no stop! No park-and-ride facilities are in place for events, parking of buses everywhere and ineffective policing and no efforts ever made to rectify these planning errors. And people wonder the residents objected.

The blame here lies solely with the almighty Croke Park/ GAA who were convinced (and led the promoters to believe) that five nights would be approved once the ball was set in motion. They were overruled (a first I think?), hopefully it’s a sign that things are changing. DCC made the right decision and have hopefully put manners on Croke Park management.

All this nonsense about Ireland being a laughing stock because of this is just manipulation and scaremongering – very few people outside of Ireland know or care about this stupid concert.

Its the shockingly immature response from the punters that has left me gobsmacked. Here and on facebook grown adults, with enough disposable income to blow on a very expensive night out, are threatening to vent their fury (no perspective at all) by attacking the homes of random residents around Croke Park
They are actually seriously trying to rally what amounts to a mob, and they expect to be permitted to do this.
No mention of protesting Croke Park or Aiken Productions, which i could understand. No . They propose to get their vengeance on random ordinary folk who are guilty of nothing but standing up for themselves.
Really what does this say about ourselves?

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy

TimeToShine wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I don't even like the fella but how is it "greedy" to cancel all of the concerts? Do you not realize he makes no money that way?

He's the third best selling artist in US history behind The Beatles and Elvis, he has lost hundreds of millions by refusing to let his music be sold via iTunes/YT etc. and has stuck to his guns. He's about to announce a massive comeback world tour. I really don't think a few bob from 2 concerts had that much of an effect on his decision.

He may have been trying to bluff, but now that his bluff has been called at least he stuck with it. I may be one of the few who doesn't care for him but understands where he's coming from by cancelling all of the shows. As far as he's concerned DCC and the residents are the bullies here.

If you were ever to read his book you would get a great insight into him. The way he sees it is that those who bought tickets for monday and tuesday concerts, they paid good money to see him just like others attending fri - sun. They made their plans and looked forward in anticipation just like the others. The way Mr Brooks would see it is that - why should they be left out and not the others and for him it was all or nothing.

Lemlin

conorhal wrote: »

I was gobsmacked to hear Aitkin doing the beal bocht on RTE this morning and I was disgusted that the presenter never bothered to ask him, ‘I assume a major event planner like yourself would be fully aware of how many licensed gigs were permitted each year at Croke Park and how many had already taken place, what exactly made you think that you would be granted a rubber stamp on a 200% increase on that number?’

This is incorrect. There is no maximum number of concerts "permitted" in Croke Park each year. Organisers just have to seek a licence after the first three.

MidlandsM

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

If you were ever to read his book you would get a great insight into him. The way he sees it is that those who bought tickets for monday and tuesday concerts, they paid good money to see him just like others attending fri - sun. They made their plans and looked forward in anticipation just like the others. The way Mr Brooks would see it is that - why should they be left out and not the others and for him it was all or nothing.

Then do the 2 other dates next year, and maybe 1 other bous night next year too.

Then, every one wins.

Do Ticketmaster charge a booking fee per ticket or is it a flat rate no matter how many you buy? They're the only ones coming out of this with a win considering that when they refund tickets they never give back the booking fee.

muddypaws

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well they did keep refusing the €500,000 they were offered and insisting it wasn't enough.

Is there a link that they insisted it wasn't enough, or is that just the supposition that has been made because they didn't accept it? I'm not arguing just for the sake of it, am genuinely interested as to whether greed was a motivation.

As has been pointed out, that €500,000 wasn't to be divided between residents, it was for community projects.

rubadub

Deleted User wrote: »

Do Ticketmaster charge a booking fee per ticket or is it a flat rate no matter how many you buy? They're the only ones coming out of this with a win considering that when they refund tickets they never give back the booking fee.

Ticketmaster charge a booking fee on all tickets, and a service charge on each ticket if buying online for from an agent. There is no bulk discount.

I have had lots of tickets refunded by ticketmaster over the years for cancelled gigs and have always gotten every penny back. I have never heard of anyone not getting it back (I frequently hear rumours/myths of it happening).

mrsbyrne

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy wrote: »

If you were ever to read his book you would get a great insight into him. The way he sees it is that those who bought tickets for monday and tuesday concerts, they paid good money to see him just like others attending fri - sun. They made their plans and looked forward in anticipation just like the others. The way Mr Brooks would see it is that - why should they be left out and not the others and for him it was all or nothing.

Do you really believe that? Can you not see at all that GB (I see youve now elevated himto the level of Mr:rolleyes: overnight) has built an image, very cleverly, and sold it to you and youve totally bought it hook, line and sinker?
Theres actually nothing wrong with that, by the way. If that image appeals to you on some level, makes you feel happy, safe whatever, then who am i to judge?
But when his original spiel, based on the old "im a one woman man, me, loves my wife and kids me, no infedility for me" turned out to be a crock of sh**e, you might at least view any other pronouncements of his with a bit of sceptism?

benny79

What about all the people who bought tickets on the likes of donedeal etc some over the odds and some for cost there must be thousands! how will they be refunded. There's rumours that if you bought tickets online your card will be refunded meaning the touts or people who sold tickets on will double their money! surely this can't be true?

miss no stars

rubadub wrote: »

I have had lots of tickets refunded by ticketmaster over the years for cancelled gigs and have always gotten every penny back. I have never heard of anyone not getting it back (I frequently hear rumours/myths of it happening).

I rang ticketmaster after the first two were cancelled and posted this:

miss no stars wrote: »

I was just on the phone, booking fees will be returned when the concerts are officially cancelled.

That's what ticketmaster told me. So I'll be asking why they're reneging on it if they don't refund them at a later point. I'd say it's Aiken/Garth Brooks who'll have to be hit with the loss of earnings for ticketmaster (plus the costs of issuing refunds!).