Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

donegal__road

what has got 8 teeth and 1320 legs?


the front row of a Garth Brooks concert.



boom boom

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

bumper234 wrote: »

You keep saying this but what may seem incompetent to you is perfectly fine with others. Shock horror i know but quite a few people are happy that the Monday/Tuesday gigs are off because of the disruption they would have bought.

Keegan / DCC green lit a situation where 160,000 people would have access to the streets in or around Croke Park on the Saturday and again on Sunday also. That's 320,000 people in just 48 hours. Had Garth Brooks been granted his five-nights-in-a-row then the highest amount of people that would have been in or around the Croke Park area over a 24 hour period would have been just 80,000.

So your sanctimonious comment about how Keegan was looking out for the residents doesn't wash and is quite laughable, as there would have less crowd intensification with what Brooks wanted to happen, than with what Keegan was happy to have happen.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm still flabbergasted that what McKenna suggested happened on the phone was not probed by a Dail Committee supposedly representing me.
They took what he said as a way to lambast Keegan and DCC for not awarding 5 nights having said they would.

Nobody interrogated what he was really saying; That effectively. planning was approved before an application was made. So happy was he that he fecked off on holidays, 'sure that there would be no problem' with the application.

To me that is an astonishing revelation about planning, if what he says was true...AND NOT ONE TD mentioned it.

How is that astonishing when the phonecall has been exactly what Aikens said occurred since day 1 after the two licenses were refused?

The call was made and no problem was specifically called out with putting on 5 nights or indication given that licenses would be refused, so rightly or wrongly the promoter took this as all systems go, as has been the process the last 30 years, and then Keegan and co then watched the 400,000 tickets get sold and then refused two licenses.

There were no surprises in that part of it this morning.

pablo128

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan / DCC green lit a situation where 160,000 people would have access to the streets in or around Croke Park on the Saturday and again on Sunday also. That's 320,000 people in just 48 hours. Had Garth Brooks been granted his five-nights-in-a-row then the highest amount of people that would have been in or around the Croke Park area over a 24 hour period would have been just 80,000.

So your sanctimonious comment about how Keegan was looking out for the residents doesn't wash and is quite laughable, as there would have less crowd intensification with what Brooks wanted to happen, than with what Keegan was happy to have happen.

And nothing to do with traffic in the area on the Monday and Tuesday then?
Traffic can be mental there on weekdays, even without a gig on.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

pablo128 wrote: »

And nothing to do with traffic in the area on the Monday and Tuesday then?
Traffic can be mental there on weekdays, even without a gig on.

This was a once off set of concerts and I think the residents appreciated that which is why we are now seeing evidence that the vast majority of them had no problems with the concerts going ahead. Of course, that is obvious as if they weren't, there wouldn't be a need to forge signatures and invent complainers. They were obviously invented as they were thin on the ground.

pablo128

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

This was a once off set of concerts and I think the residents appreciated that which is why we are now seeing evidence that the vast majority of them had no problems with the concerts going ahead. Of course, that is obvious as if they weren't, there wouldn't be a need to forge signatures and invent complainers. They were obviously invented as they were thin on the ground.

Whatever about the residents, an awful lot of people work in the area and travel through it at peak times. Add 80000 people, a good few with drink taken, on a weekday and you would have mayhem.

Happyman42

nm wrote: »

How is that astonishing when the phonecall has been exactly what Aikens said occurred since day 1 after the two licenses were refused?

The call was made and no problem was specifically called out with putting on 5 nights or indication given that licenses would be refused, so rightly or wrongly the promoter took this as all systems go, as has been the process the last 30 years, and then Keegan and co then watched the 400,000 tickets get sold and then refused two licenses.

There were no surprises in that part of it this morning.

I just watched it again on Oireachtas Report...he clearly says that he took the phone call to mean 'approval' and proceeded to organise the concerts.

DCC could watch a million tickets getting sold but they cannot and should not allow that to influence their decision as planning professionals.

Happyman42

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan / DCC green lit a situation where 160,000 people would have access to the streets in or around Croke Park on the Saturday and again on Sunday also.

At this stage, given what has been discussed on this thread and your involvement in it, that ^ has to be treated as an out and out lie.

He did not propose that (Aiken did) and he did not approve it or green light it.
He said, he would consider it as part of an updated Event Management Plan with the same rigour as the rest of the application was.

homerjk

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan / DCC green lit a situation where 160,000 people would have access to the streets in or around Croke Park on the Saturday and again on Sunday also. That's 320,000 people in just 48 hours. Had Garth Brooks been granted his five-nights-in-a-row then the highest amount of people that would have been in or around the Croke Park area over a 24 hour period would have been just 80,000.

So your sanctimonious comment about how Keegan was looking out for the residents doesn't wash and is quite laughable, as there would have less crowd intensification with what Brooks wanted to happen, than with what Keegan was happy to have happen.

Yes, but you must realise that if the matinee option wasnt refused by Brooks, the residents would have been able to just stay in doors both days and would have been able to come home from work on the Monday and Tuesday unimpeded which they wouldn't have been if the concerts were held on the Monday and Tuesday.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

This was a once off set of concerts and I think the residents appreciated that which is why we are now seeing evidence that the vast majority of them had no problems with the concerts going ahead. Of course, that is obvious as if they weren't, there wouldn't be a need to forge signatures and invent complainers. They were obviously invented as they were thin on the ground.

Well not if any of the public meetings the residents held were anything go by. Whilst it is obviously ridiculous that anyone felt the need to forge objections, to suggest that the vast majority had no problem and were thin on the ground is also not accurate. For example, here, http://www.thejournal.ie/politicians-told-not-to-negotiate-on-garth-brooks-gigs-1384246-Mar2014/ shows that there were definitely enough people against it, they may not all have just sent in objections.

(Also funny to note that "Ministers of State Joe Costello and Paschal Donohoe, local TD Maureen O’Sullivan joined a number of local councillors to oppose moves by Croke Park to hold eight gigs in the stadium across the summer, on top of a full slate of championship GAA")

nxbyveromdwjpg

Happyman42 wrote: »

I just watched it again on Oireachtas Report...he clearly says that he took the phone call to mean 'approval' and proceeded to organise the concerts.

But we knew that already, of course he'd taken it as approval sure he told us this two weeks ago. Right or wrong, we knew that's what happened.

Keegan didn't call out the issue to them until the decision was already made and irreversible, that was the GAAs main complaint today.

I'm sure Keegan will tell us again tomorrow that he said nothing to indicate nothing, thereby completing the circle in that room that we ironed out in this thread a week ago.

Happyman42 wrote: »

IDCC could watch a million tickets getting sold but they cannot and should not allow that to influence their decision as planning professionals.

He's not obliged to but a simple indication would have saved hundreds of thousands of people a lot of grief.

Jamsiek

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

First of all I don't like country and western music and secondly, if he is so "washed up".. how did he manage to sell 330,000 concert tickets in a country of only 4.5m?

I agree it's bizarre, you might find this interesting.
http://www.news.msn.ie/garth-brooks-saga-international-coverage-1566870-Jul2014/

brooke 2

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

How do you get money back for this Gareth Brooks fella if they were bought on credit card? Bought them as a present. Think i'll give the money to a charity. Good way for the money to still go into the Dublin economy since the Gareth Brooks fans were so concerned about that.

AFAIK, it comes back into your account automatically.

Just when I thought that thread thread was circling the drain, someone puts the plug back in.
No doubt DCC will pull it out again!

bumper234

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan / DCC green lit a situation where 160,000 people would have access to the streets in or around Croke Park on the Saturday and again on Sunday also. That's 320,000 people in just 48 hours. Had Garth Brooks been granted his five-nights-in-a-row then the highest amount of people that would have been in or around the Croke Park area over a 24 hour period would have been just 80,000.

So your sanctimonious comment about how Keegan was looking out for the residents doesn't wash and is quite laughable, as there would have less crowd intensification with what Brooks wanted to happen, than with what Keegan was happy to have happen.

Are you just making things up as you go along or do you actually believe what you post? :rolleyes:

bumper234

Happyman42 wrote: »

At this stage, given what has been discussed on this thread and your involvement in it, that ^ has to be treated as an out and out lie.

He did not propose that (Aiken did) and he did not approve it or green light it.
He said, he would consider it as part of an updated Event Management Plan with the same rigour as the rest of the application was.

Yeah but that doesn't fit in with Wishas anti DCC tirade so best to just claim that DCC/Keegan offered these matinee's and had agreed to them instead of posting the truth that Aiken had proposed them as a last ditch effort to save his millions.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Reformed Character wrote: »

In this case the incompetency was on the part of CP and Aiken Promotions, and the something in place was the original unchallenged decision of An Bord Pleanala, and the Planning Department of DCC and their licence decision. The ramifications avoided being "money talks".

You claim here the Aiken / Croke Park were incompetent and as you know, I have always maintained that if they are found to have been reckless, then they need to be dealt with. However, the reason why my focus is the DCC is quite simple:

A country's event licencing system should be bullet proof. It should run in such a seamless fashion, that there should be NOTHING whatsoever that a promoter could do (nor a venue) that would result in anything close to the fiasco that has happened here. There should be brick walls that promoters and venues hit at almost every point along the way of the event licence application procedure that would prevent them from causing problems for the council or the residents, much less the country.

Almost every single country in the western world has greedy promoters and venues that want to make as much cash as possible and dismiss the needs of residents that surround them to I dare say, but to prevent that, it is the job of a Government / City Council to put in place as system that that even the greediest promoter in the world, and the venue with the most disdain for it's residents, would not be able to circumnavigate. If they can.. then the system is flawed and iff they can to such a degree that it causes the calamity of the proportions that has been caused here, then it is not just flawed, it is banjaxed.

Notice I never mentioned the artist in any of the above?

Well that's because it's fcuking absurd to blame an artist for anything to do with a mess like the one we are witnessing here and have witnessed over the past few weeks. This is an in-house mess. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Garth Brooks. He's just a performer, it's not for us to tell him which way we want him to bend. He says it was five in a row or nothing and we should respect that. He's inconvenienced by our system being paltry and amateurish. Blaming him is looking at the situation arseways. For the record, I do think there are singers that would have just done the three concerts and handled things far better than he did, but again, that in no way should mean he should bear any of responsibility for the calamity that has occured. Our system needs overhauling so it's fcuking impossible for anything like this to ever happen again, no matter how carried away a promoter or artist gets, or complacent a venue is with regards to it's residents. In a system which is airtight and runs seamlessly.. all nefarious intentions by those that use it, should be irrelevant.

bumper234

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Our system needs overhauling so it's fcuking impossible for anything like this to ever happen again, no matter how carried away a promoter or artist gets, or complacent a venue is with regards to it's residents. In a system which is airtight and runs seamlessly.. all nefarious intentions by those that use it, should be irrelevant.

Finally we agree on something

A Dub in Glasgo

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

You claim here the Aiken / Croke Park were incompetent and as you know, I have always maintained that if they are found to have been reckless, then they need to be dealt with. However, the reason why my focus is the DCC is quite simple:

A country's event licencing system should be bullet proof. It should run in such a seamless fashion, that there should be NOTHING whatsoever that a promoter could do (nor a venue) that would result in anything close to the fiasco that has happened here. There should be brick walls that promoters and venues hit at almost every point along the way of the event licence application procedure that would prevent them from causing problems for the council or the residents, much less the country.

Almost every single country in the western world has greedy promoters and venues that want to make as much cash as possible and dismiss the needs of residents that surround them to I dare say, but to prevent that, it is the job of a Government / City Council to put in place as system that that even the greediest promoter in the world, and the venue with the most disdain for it's residents, would not be able to circumnavigate. If they can.. then the system is flawed and iff they can to such a degree that it causes the calamity of the proportions that has been caused here, then it is not just flawed, it is banjaxed.

Notice I never mentioned the artist in any of the above?

Well that's because it's fcuking absurd to blame an artist for anything to do with a mess like the one we are witnessing here and have witnessed over the past few weeks. This is an in-house mess. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Garth Brooks. He's just a performer, it's not for us to tell him which way we want him to bend. He says it was five in a row or nothing and we should respect that. He's inconvenienced by our system being paltry and amateurish. Blaming him is looking at the situation arseways. For the record, I do think there are singers that would have just done the three concerts and handled things far better than he did, but again, that in no way should mean he should bear any of responsibility for the calamity that has occured. Our system needs overhauling so it's fcuking impossible for anything like this to ever happen again, no matter how carried away a promoter or artist gets, or complacent a venue is with regards to it's residents. In a system which is airtight and runs seamlessly.. all nefarious intentions by those that use it, should be irrelevant.

Translation: Give in to the demands and whims of Brooks as he has just experienced our laws and does not like it

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

He's not obliged to but a simple indication would have saved hundreds of thousands of people a lot of grief.

LOLOL. Entertaining.
So instead of requesting objections and feedback from local residents and consulting with traffic management and emergency services, you think they should give a snap decision on the spot with every phone call?

Is it OK if I put an extension on me house? No, I won't fill in any crappy forms. YES or NO. Tell me NOW.

ThisRegard

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm still flabbergasted that what McKenna suggested happened on the phone was not probed by a Dail Committee supposedly representing me.
They took what he said as a way to lambast Keegan and DCC for not awarding 5 nights having said they would.

Yes, it's pretty stunning and it seems to me that they have issues with Keegan from the outset. They seem to be taking his and Aikens word as gospel.

Dan_Solo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Is it OK if I put an extension on me house? No, I won't fill in any crappy forms. YES or NO. Tell me NOW.

This is completely different and I don't know why people keep bringing this up. These concerts would have been over in 5 days. An extension is there for a lot longer than that.

I'd love to see these concerts rescheduled in Belfast just to give the two fingers to us. Absolute shambles.

Dan_Solo

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

A country's event licencing system should be bullet proof. It should run in such a seamless fashion, that there should be NOTHING whatsoever that a promoter could do (nor a venue) that would result in anything close to the fiasco that has happened here. There should be brick walls that promoters and venues hit at almost every point along the way of the event licence application procedure that would prevent them from causing problems for the council or the residents, much less the country.

And yet, after all this rant, you have made no case whatsoever that DCC did anything wrong when they considered Aiken's license application.
Other than not making the decision you wanted.

Dan_Solo

Karsini wrote: »

This is completely different and I don't know why people keep bringing this up. These concerts would have been over in 5 days. An extension is there for a lot longer than that.

Which has a sum total of zero relevance to the ludicrous claim that Aiken should have received the green light over the phone with no further consideration that's being bandied about here.

ThisRegard

Karsini wrote: »

I'd love to see these concerts rescheduled in Belfast just to give the two fingers to us. Absolute shambles.

I'd say most of 'us' won't care and be glad to be rid of the whole thing.

First Up

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And yet, after all this rant, you have made no case whatsoever that DCC did anything wrong when they considered Aiken's license application.
Other than not making the decision you wanted.

Yep, that's the defence - we did nothing wrong. It's just that they didn't do anything right either. Keegan is paid to be more than a clerk with a rubber stamp. I hear talk of calls for him to go - good idea.

Sunny Dayz

My god are they still going on about the concerts?! I wish they would just draw a line under it. We are trying to figure out something to do next weekend to make up for not going to the concert.

bumper234

Karsini wrote: »

This is completely different and I don't know why people keep bringing this up. These concerts would have been over in 5 days. An extension is there for a lot longer than that.

I'd love to see these concerts rescheduled in Belfast just to give the two fingers to us. Absolute shambles.

The disruption would have been for 2 weeks. Easy to Pooh Bahh that when you don't have to put up with it though fight?

Dan_Solo

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'd say most of 'us' won't care and be glad to be rid of the whole thing.

Yeah, is he going to play 16 nights in a row at Windsor Park so all his 400,000 dedicated fans get their chance of a lifetime etc.

Dan_Solo

First Up wrote: »

Yep, that's the defence - we did nothing wrong. It's just that they didn't do anything right either. Keegan is paid to be more than a clerk with a rubber stamp. I hear talk of calls for him to go - good idea.

So you can't point to a single thing they did wrong, but you now spout they did nothing right.
Not right = wrong the last time I checked, so same question again I'm afraid: what did they do wrong?
Is this "talk of calls" the same bloke who came up with "up to 40% might have been fake said a source"?

Effects

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Its not Gareth. Its Garth.

No, it's definetely Gareth. It's just pronounced like Garth but not spelt that way.