Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

yopy

For what its worth, I'm firmly in the residents corner.

The black and white of it is 3 concerts a year max. Those nights have been spent already.

Greedy Garth was offered 3 nights (generously) but refused to back down from his hasty ultimatum.
Greedy GAA/Aiken should have known there would be an issue seeking 5. They should have taken what they were offered and ran with it.

I'm delighted to see DCC stick to their guns and I hope this will be a lesson to all that Irish people will not be bullied by corporate greed.

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muddypaws wrote: »

For those who say that Brooks shares no blame in this, and didn't know they were subject to licence, something to consider. I would understand an artist and his management not to know the licensing requirements in each territory that they play on a world tour. Brooks has worked with Aiken in the past, Aiken is an experienced and knowledgeable promoter, so I would expect Brooks and his management to let Aiken get on with his job. However, much has been made of the fact that this was not part of a world tour, but instead was a very special, huge, one off event. Therefore surely the management company should have been on top of every aspect of this, and by extension Brooks himself, as he seems a very smart business man who looks after his commercial affairs very carefully. Brooks flew into Dublin to promote these gigs, thats how big it was, very difficult to accept that he didn't talk to Aiken about any possible difficulties with putting on such a radical event.

I don't think anybody is saying Brooks shares no blame in this, given that he cancelled the 3 gigs they were granted a licence for.

On the other hand though there is now way they'd concern themselves with what was (until it exploded) a local issue in the neighbourhood of the venue. Fairly unheard of and definitely should have been sorted this side of the water.

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Dan_Solo wrote: »

Nope. I said what might work for other stadiums in Ireland doesn't work for Croke Park. Different situations, different licensing restrictions. Is that too much to grasp?

Crokey is different, change everything for Crokey.

That line works both way apparently.

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What time is throw-in in the oireachtas today lads?

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Can someone answer me this, and I'm not insinuating anything, simply asking a question that I do not know the answer to.

Can one person lodge more than one objection?

currins_02

Been out of touch with this board for a few hours (since yesterday evening) but did have a very interesting conversation with a friend who works in the events industry and his business has been very badly affected by this (stand to shoulder a 5 figure loss that on legal advice at present will not be recoverable).

Some of the points he raised may add to the balance here.

Firstly, Brooks never ever said "5 in a row" or "5 consecutive nights" (I haven't researched this so feel free to correct me), What Brooks allegedly said is "5 shows or none at all"... like loosing my children...blah blah. As such they offered, acccording to my learned friend but I do recall it being widely published, to reschedule the Monday & Tuesday shows to later in the week or the following weekend. This was shot down on 2 fronts, GAA wanted the stadium back for matches the follwoing weekend and DCC said this must be treated as a new application and as such would require a minimum 10week prior notice. So, and I say this reluctantly, Brooks did offer one small chance of compromise and in the interest of fairness we should say that.

I still contend that it should have been a complete fail if the application as finalised (after updates to event plan etc which are normal in this type of process) was unacceptable, i.e. they should have refused the whole lot. If it was acceptable then they should have passed the whole lot.

It has been said here that GAA/Aiken weren't asked why 5 nights, but I would say they were but in a soft and non probing fashion.

Also someone queried we might find out how many containers were involved - widely published as being as low as 12 containers and the highest report I heard/saw was 18 containers.

Regarding TV3 news this morning, I've told the wife (she is a major fan and as posted before we have/had tickets for 2 of the nights), I'll eat the tickets now before I'll go! I am not a GAA member or fan, I am not a Brooks fan as such (but was going in the interest of "marital harmony") and I had no preconceptions or opinions around Aiken/DCC in terms of event promotion coming into this but after all has been said and done I simply couldn't bring myself to cross the threshold now. I do work in the transport sector and may have to attend in a professional capacity IF it does go (although I'll eat my hat if that position changes) but that would be it. Where is the ship now?!

I would say it is just filming for the documentary around the "Ireland debacle", TV3 are saying a 30man film crew whereas I believe Aiken & Brooks were saying a 90man crew prior to this. Quite possible they will go around some of the side events now to show how we made up for the loss of the event. Cue lots of check shirted wailing.

hynesie08

nm wrote: »

Can someone answer me this, and I'm not insinuating anything, simply asking a question that I do not know the answer to.

Can one person lodge more than one objection?

I'm not sure, but I do know that a couple of the heads of ra's sent in a personal letter and an official group one, so there's that.

Mrs Garth Brooks

nm wrote: »

What time is throw-in in the oireachtas today lads?

2pm

secman

Would really be interested what your genuine response is to my previous post, you obviously being a huge GB fan. ? And as said I do have sympathy for the fans in this situation.


?

muddypaws

nm wrote: »

I don't think anybody is saying Brooks shares no blame in this, given that he cancelled the 3 gigs they were granted a licence for.

On the other hand though there is now way they'd concern themselves with what was (until it exploded) a local issue in the neighbourhood of the venue. Fairly unheard of and definitely should have been sorted this side of the water.

Have you not read this thread? :pac:

It was unheard of to apply for 5 nights in this venue. Having worked in the music business in London for over 10 years, including time with a top management company, I would be astounded if they didn't look into every detail.

Mrs Garth Brooks

currins_02 wrote: »

I would say it is just filming for the documentary around the "Ireland debacle", TV3 are saying a 30man film crew whereas I believe Aiken & Brooks were saying a 90man crew prior to this. Quite possible they will go around some of the side events now to show how we made up for the loss of the event. Cue lots of check shirted wailing.

This is the first thing I thought of in the morning. Peter Aiken said on Wednesday that there was 60 or 70 film crew coming. And now its 30.

I reckon maybe a documentary of Ireland as planned but nothing about the concerts.

Dan_Solo

First Up wrote: »

Ah, so it might not be the concerts per se - they are just another brick in the ongoing stone throwing between CP and the residents. In that case, should DCC have put so much store in the "objections", given the potential benefits to the city of the concerts going ahead?
As for when should they have started, I would say as soon as the 400,000 tickets were snapped up.

Why "objections"? 11 have been proven false out of nearly 400. A 2.5% ineligible rate hardly calls for inverted commas!
Potential benefits to the city? Irrelevant to disruption and safety. As they should be.

Calina

First Up wrote: »

Ah, so it might not be the concerts per se - they are just another brick in the ongoing stone throwing between CP and the residents. In that case, should DCC have put so much store in the "objections", given the potential benefits to the city of the concerts going ahead?
As for when should they have started, I would say as soon as the 400,000 tickets were snapped up.

Yes, the DCC should take account of the objections.

And if DCC should have started talking to Aiken as soon as the 400,000 tickets were snapped up, why couldn't Aiken have applied for his licence first.

Also, once more, do you understand that that there is no god given right to five concerts by Garth Brooks here?

As in, licences can be refused.

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

Crokey is different, change everything for Crokey.

That line works both way apparently.

Everything is different for every stadium due to local Gardai, traffic and H+S concerns. So yes, things are different for Croke Park than for other venues. Are you of the opinion that all possible venues in Ireland are identical in every way?
Not too confusing I would have thought.

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

On the other hand though there is now way they'd concern themselves with what was (until it exploded) a local issue in the neighbourhood of the venue. Fairly unheard of and definitely should have been sorted this side of the water.

No more unheard of than the unprecedented number of consecutive concerts Brooks was adamant he was going to play. If Aiken/Brooks want to upset the applecart then I could have told them myself what to expect.

Ash.J.Williams

i hope this makes it easier to have concerts rather than more difficult

currins_02

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No more unheard of than the unprecedented number of consecutive concerts Brooks was adamant he was going to play. If Aiken/Brooks want to upset the applecart then I could have told them myself what to expect.

Broadly agree with most of your posts but would say, as was pointed out to me this morning, "consecutive" was never part of Brooks argument. In the interest of fairness we should grant him that. He was willing to push them back to later in the week, or the following weekend so technically not consecutive in the sense that the nights hadn't to be consecutive. Splitting hairs I accept.

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Dan_Solo wrote: »

Potential benefits to the city? Irrelevant to disruption and safety. As they should be.

So essentially what you're saying is when deciding on these matters all con's should be taken into account and all pros should be disregarded?

Interesting take, completely not objective or balanced but interesting.

Should we apply this to St Patricks Day? The Dundrum Town Centre? Christmas? They all cause massive disruption.

Didn't think so.

yopy

nm wrote: »

So essentially what you're saying is when deciding on these matters all con's should be taken into account and all pros should be disregarded?

Interesting take, completely not objective or balanced but interesting.

Should we apply this to St Patricks Day? The Dundrum Town Centre? Christmas? They all cause massive disruption.

Didn't think so.

Planning law is planning law. You can't pick and choose which laws you want to abide by.

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

So essentially what you're saying is when deciding on these matters all con's should be taken into account and all pros should be disregarded?

Interesting take, completely not objective or balanced but interesting.

Should we apply this to St Patricks Day? The Dundrum Town Centre? Christmas? They all cause massive disruption.

Didn't think so.

You're comparing national holidays (and our national day) to a country and western concert?
Anything relevant?

Dan_Solo

currins_02 wrote: »

Broadly agree with most of your posts but would say, as was pointed out to me this morning, "consecutive" was never part of Brooks argument. In the interest of fairness we should grant him that. He was willing to push them back to later in the week, or the following weekend so technically not consecutive in the sense that the nights hadn't to be consecutive. Splitting hairs I accept.

Was another plan put to the DCC for consideration based on split weekends?

Dan_Solo

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i hope this makes it easier to have concerts rather than more difficult

I don't see why it should lead to more concerts at all. I hope it makes the application process easier yes, but the objections and input of residents, traffic, Gardai and the HSE still need to carry exactly the same weight.

muddypaws

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You're comparing national holidays (and our national day) to a country and western concert?
Anything relevant?

I think they are valid comparisons, if we're saying that everyone has to comply with the planning laws. They are huge events, and cause major disruption, so definitely should be subject to checks and balances. We can't say on one hand that a country and western singer has to comply, no matter how much money they are bringing in, and then say its not the same for other events, no matter what they are surely?

Dan_Solo

muddypaws wrote: »

I think they are valid comparisons, if we're saying that everyone has to comply with the planning laws. They are huge events, and cause major disruption, so definitely should be subject to checks and balances. We can't say on one hand that a country and western singer has to comply, no matter how much money they are bringing in, and then say its not the same for other events, no matter what they are surely?

I think we can say however that everybody benefits from a National Day and national holidays, not Aiken Promotions, Garth Brooks and concert goers. This is also a historically acceptable level of disruption on by their definition designated holidays. Pretty much exactly what the Croke Park residents and DCC were saying they had less issue with.

muddypaws

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I think we can say however that everybody benefits from a National Day and national holidays, not Aiken Promotions, Garth Brooks and concert goers. This is also a historically acceptable level of disruption on by their definition designated holidays. Pretty much exactly what the Croke Park residents and DCC were saying they had less issue with.

So you don't think they should be subject to planning laws?

Dan_Solo

muddypaws wrote: »

So you don't think they should be subject to planning laws?

I didn't say that and yes they should be since you are now asking.

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

Christmas?

Sorry, what major disruption requiring council licensing happens at Xmas anyway?

muddypaws

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Sorry, what major disruption requiring council licensing happens at Xmas anyway?

I think all the lights and decorations, and possibly the longer opening hours of shops. There are also events in various places, Santa being delivered by various, outlandish ways

Cienciano

I wonder if anyone involved in the meetings told Garth Brooks that he was being an arséhole or unreasonable? Or did they all tell him cancelling all 4 he was allowed to do was a great idea?

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Dan_Solo wrote: »

You're comparing national holidays (and our national day) to a country and western concert?
Anything relevant?

Have you heard of this parade? Apparently they close off streets of it, traffic chaos, 500,000 people!
Someone call Brian Duff, dust off the donated suit - we need a one man stand here (that's all it takes as we know, since the positives are to be disregarded).