Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

Peppa Pig

I thought John O'Mahoney was quite balanced in his conclusions.
He said we need an official pre sale meeting.
He also said there is a discrepancy between Keegan and the GAA's evidence, particularly Peter McKenna and nobody knows who is right.
He says that Croke Park have a lot to do in their relationship with the residents, but it would be helpful if there was only one residents association.

Quit balanced - fair play to him.

Dan_Solo

conorh91 wrote: »

I don't see any logical reason for that suspicion. There is nothing inherent in being an elected person that makes you more likely to be corrupt than being a non-elected person, wielding the same authority.

We have had vast experience, in this country, of corruption and weak decision making among unelected decision makers and elected decision makers alike.

And as I've said before, is this relevant to this case? And who do you think would be more likely to bribe a councillor, a Croke Park resident or a concert promoter up **** creek with €60 million in his pocket?

Mrs Garth Brooks

Peppa Pig wrote: »

What the hell is "forward scratching". Not an expression I have heard

Sorry, meant to be forhead scratching.

Im messed up

Daith

Though I am curious on this

I submit planning applications for 5 nights
People lodge objections

At what point can I review the objections and show that I can alleviate them?

muddypaws

I can't see where this thread has got left to go now, so, in case it gets closed very soon, thank you, its been entertaining, vexing at times, but mostly entertaining.

Will someone please think of the phoenix.

Peppa Pig

conorh91 wrote: »

We have had vast experience, in this country, of corruption and weak decision making among unelected decision makers and elected decision makers alike.

True.
But when we get a council who refuse to turn over and be tickled, some politicians show they have never learned.
Timmy Dooley showed today he would not support heavy metal fans but would support his mate being afforded special privilege.

Hopefully they will bring in new legislation properly. I won't hold my breath though.

miju

conorh91 wrote: »

The responsible thing would simply be to say 'I can't possibly give you an answer yet".

Thats usually the actual standard response to all decision making processes in the Public Sector

secman

muddypaws wrote: »

FFS. If Keegan had told McKenna no, you won't get licences for these concerts, imagine the outcry.

Keegan has answered the question I think, and I can completely understand why he would say he would be supportive. It actually shows that the law has been enforced here, even if Keegan wanted the 5 concerts, the planning process said no, so he cannot corrupt the system.

Was the license application a joint one by Aiken & the GAA, if it was soley by Aiken promotions, why was the GAA asking the DCC ?

Santa Cruz

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I thought John O'Mahoney was quite balanced in his conclusions.
He said we need an official pre sale meeting.
He also said there is a discrepancy between Keegan and the GAA's evidence, particularly Peter McKenna and nobody knows who is right.
He says that Croke Park have a lot to do in their relationship with the residents, but it would be helpful if there was only one residents association.

Quit balanced - fair play to him.

"one residents association"
The folk in the bought houses won't have anything to do with the "white trash" in Ballybough flats

secman

conorh91 wrote: »

I don't see any logical reason for that suspicion. There is nothing inherent in being an elected person that makes you more likely to be corrupt than being a non-elected person, wielding the same authority.

We have had vast experience, in this country, of corruption and weak decision making among unelected decision makers and elected decision makers alike.

past experiences would suggest otherwise........

Philo Beddoe

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Im messed up

conorh91

secman wrote: »

past experiences would suggest otherwise........

Past experiences show us that unelected decision makers have, on occasion, shown contemptible, systematically weak, or corrupt practices. Just like elected decision makers have, on occasion, shown.

Being elected or being unelected says nothing about whether there is an inherent tendency to err or fall into corruption. This is basic stuff.

secman

Peppa Pig wrote: »

I thought John O'Mahoney was quite balanced in his conclusions.
He said we need an official pre sale meeting.
He also said there is a discrepancy between Keegan and the GAA's evidence, particularly Peter McKenna and nobody knows who is right.
He says that Croke Park have a lot to do in their relationship with the residents, but it would be helpful if there was only one residents association.

Quit balanced - fair play to him.

In my email to him this morning I suggested that he look back at footage of the hearings on Tue & Wed and suggested that they were far from being balanced and unbiased, I told him that i got the distinct impression that members of the committee had tickets for the event which coloured their views. !

Hopefully i will get a response from him, actually might just congratulate him on a better job today.

secman

secman

Peppa Pig wrote: »

What is Mattie McGrath rabbiting on about?

Turf cutting , bogs and EEC interfering in it...............

secman

Well this thread was entertaining but also had some very valid points of view, on that note I bid this thread goodbye..................

currins_02

The big danger, I would imagine going forward is that we "over egg the cake" now. What I mean is that the update to the process needs to be relevant to all parties and must be workable for the promoters. That is neither endorsement of nor protection of any promoter (be that Aiken, MCD, Livenation, whoever...)

One of the big issues is that promoters have to move fast when dealing with an artistes manager/booker in a short space of time to secure that artiste for a date (or dates) at any venue. As Dermot Desmond of MCD and Stuart Clarke of Hotpress re-iterated separately in several different media outlets we can forget about hosting international artistes if it's case of having to wait 5-10 weeks on a licence before booking the artiste. One of them said they can get at least indication of a licence for a named major UK venue in 3-5 days, in many continental venues they don't even need permits. As someone who enjoys big gigs and also earns from a peripheral industry I can see this being the bad legacy of this going forward.

I mentioned earlier an interesting conversation with a friend/colleague. They are aware of one publicly unconfirmed act slated for Ireland in 2015 who has withdrawn the date from the proposed tour schedule in anticipation of the outcome here. What drives a lot of that is, by Aiken's own admission, they cannot secure insurance on such a date until a licence is granted. Going forward it will be interesting to see how this precipitates through the industry.

I don't think it'll be a massive problem in many senses if we don't change the system either as this was a unique event of an artist coming out of retirements after 14-17 years away from the tour circuit who was (depending on which magazine chart you read) in the top 5 selling artistes on the planet (I believe one poll put him third to Elvis and Michael Jackson in terms of sales). Regardless of whether any of us like him there are few artists, including our own national heroes, who could generate the excitement and level of sales he did. I do agree with Aiken in one thing and that is that we are unlikely to witness such an event (in sales terms that is, forget about the dying mother's lost light show) in our lifetimes.

I thought Keegan and his mate Keogan spoke well. The phantom John Downey did plenty of nodding and whispering but that was it. FF were obviously gunning for blood with Mattie's shock exposure of 1995 court cases (at least I think that is what he was on about?). The fact is Keegan and GAA are never going to agree on the sentiment of the calls. Keegan wasn't pushed on the fact he denied the calls at all initially, then admitted calls but didn't endorse the event, now he gave "support" but not "assurance". His unwise 4th concert intervention may come back to haunt. No mention in regards to intensification of the 5 in 3 day matinee option, I don't see how him or Keogan could have reconciled that. Again I believe, as posted before they knew that would never float but issued the statement to win PR points. If he survives the next 10days it will be forgotten I'd imagine but we could see moves in that space to oust him based on that alone.

Good thread folks, take chill pills now.

Now, as Christy Burke said a week agao there are 177 homeless in Dublin tonight you know!

Dan_Solo

currins_02 wrote: »

Now, as Christy Burke said a week agao there are 177 homeless in Dublin tonight you know!

Just as well you don't need planning permission to live in a doorway.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Keegan is as cagey as it gets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDuybNev754

Note that he kept speaking in absolutes, despite being called on it. 'I never assured' and 'I never gave a commitment to grant''.. when nobody ever claimed he did. In fact, nobody involved, to my knowledge at least, ever accused him of assuring anyone of anything and so it was just a strawman argument to keep denying that he had done that and fair play to the first guy who called him on it, even if it had no effect as he just continued to do it.

So Keegan says that if the GAA had made enough efforts then he would have had no problem with 5 concerts, yet when asked what those efforts were that the GAA could have done, which would have satisfied him, he stuttered and said that is what not a matter for him but a matter for the GAA and the residents :P

Slippery than a bar of soap.

Well, it's clear now at least, that the reasons he refused the concerts were for issues which he was aware of since February. It is also quite clear, that he did give quite clear indications all along that he was supportive of Garth Brooks playing five nights in a row at Croke Park and that all along, in pre licence application talks and post licence application talks.. that he was also constantly putting out the impression that all the GAA had to do was appease the residents and they would be granted the licence for five nights.

So along came Mulvey and brokered a deal which would see €500,000 going to a legacy fund for the residents and that a commitment would be made for no more than three concerts per year, and which Croke Park would promise to honour and to which the vast majority of the residents were more than happy with..... BUT that a hardline minority were not, in the least, and who Mulvey suggested was who kept upturning the applecart down there for the rest of residents who were happy with the talks, and that this hardcore would continue to do just that, as he got the impression that could NEVER please them, even if you dismantled the stadium and gave them all a brick each. It was that element which in his opinion was the real issue and what was responsible for creating the impasse. An impasse which a bloody Castleknock resident and whoever created the forged complaints were responsible for and an impasse which without question, informed Owen Keegan's decision to not grant the licence for the five concerts as there is NOTHING else which possibly could have done that. It is that impasse which must have brought him to the conclusion that the GAA had not done what which was required of them and so therefore he was not happy with granting a licence for five nights because of it.

Therfore.. it was the professional NIMBY brigade and the lengths to which they were willing to go to which has resulted in this mess. A mess which has embarrassed us at an international level. That of course, and a council which didn't make damn sure that the reasons for which they were willing to cancel concerts which 160,000 people held tickets for, and which were due to take place just three weeks later.. were 100% legit and not nefariously motivated, which we all know now, bloody well were nefariously motivated. But, I guess, if it wasn't for that damn concert promoter who had the gall to eh.. try and promote concerts and that fecking country and western singer who had the cheek to eh.. want to sing country and western songs for five nights in row, then none of this bloody mess would have ever occurred in the first place.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Dan_Solo

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan is as cagey as it gets.

Note that he kept speaking in absolutes, despite being called on it. 'I never assured' and 'I never gave a commitment to grant''.. when nobody ever claimed he did. In fact, nobody involved, to my knowledge at lest, ever accused him of assing anyone of anything and so it was just a strawman argument to keep denying that he had done that and fair play to the first guy who called him on it, even if it had no effect as he just continued to do it.

Er, Aiken was saying he was given assurances that a 4th night and matinees were on apparently. So he's answered those questions 100%.

beakerjoe

Is this debate still goin on....let it go lads. More important things going on in the world.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Er, Aiken was saying he was given assurances that a 4th night and matinees were on apparently. So he's answered those questions 100%.

The comments I am referring to Keegan making were regarding conversations which too place well before July 2nd.

Ash.J.Williams

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan is as cagey as it gets.

Note that he kept speaking in absolutes, despite being called on it. 'I never assured' and 'I never gave a commitment to grant''.. when nobody ever claimed he did. In fact, nobody involved, to my knowledge at lest, ever accused him of assing anyone of anything and so it was just a strawman argument to keep denying that he had done that and fair play to the first guy who called him on it, even if it had no effect as he just continued to do it.

So Keegan says that if the GAA had made enough efforts then he would have had no problem with 5 concerts, yet when asked what those efforts were that the GAA could have done, which would have satisfied him, he stuttered and said that is what not a matter for him but a matter for the GAA and the residents :P

Slippery than a bar of soap.

Well, it's clear now at least, that the reasons he refused the concerts were for issues which he was aware of since February. It is also quite clear, that he did give quite clear indications all along that he was supportive of Garth Brooks playing five nights in a row at Croke Park and that all along, in pre licence application talks and post licence application talks.. that he was also constantly putting out the impression that all the GAA had to do was appease the residents and they would be granted the licence for five nights.

So along came Mulvey and brokered a deal which would see €500,000 going to a legacy fund for the residents and that a commitment would be made for no more than three concerts per year, which Croke Park would promise to honour and which the vast majority of the residents were more than happy with..... BUT that a hardline minority were not and who Mulvey suggested kept upturning the applecart down there for the rest of the majority, who were happy with the talks, and that they would continue to do so, as he got the impression that you would NEVER make them happy even if you dismantled the stadium and gave them all a brick. It was that element which in his opnion was the issue and what was causing the problems which was creating the impasse. An impasse which a bloody Castleknock resident and whoever created the forged complaints are responsible and an impasse which informed Owen Keegan's decision to not allow the five concerts to go ahead as there NOTHING else which possibly could have. It is that impasse which brought him to the conclusion that the GAA had not done what was required of them and so therefore he was not happy with granting a licence for five nights.

So.. it was the professional NIMBY brigade and the lengths to which they were willing to go to, which resulted in this mess. A mess which has embarrassed us at an international level. That and of course, a council official who didn't make sure that the reasons for which he was willing to cancel concerts, which 160,000 people held tickets for, and which was due to take place just three weeks later.. were legit and not nefariously motivated, which we all know now, bloody well were. So, if it wasn't for that damn concert promoter who had the gall to eh.. try and promote concerts and that fecking country and western singer who had the cheek to eh.. oh yeah, want to sing country and western songs for five nights in row, none of this bloody mess would have ever occurred in the first place.

reminds me of Wicklow coco...they stated last year that nearly all planning permission objections (for the entire county) were by ONE person

First Up

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Keegan is as cagey as it gets.

Note that he kept speaking in absolutes, despite being called on it. 'I never assured' and 'I never gave a commitment to grant''.. when nobody ever claimed he did. In fact, nobody involved, to my knowledge at lest, ever accused him of assing anyone of anything and so it was just a strawman argument to keep denying that he had done that and fair play to the first guy who called him on it, even if it had no effect as he just continued to do it.

So Keegan says that if the GAA had made enough efforts then he would have had no problem with 5 concerts, yet when asked what those efforts were that the GAA could have done, which would have satisfied him, he stuttered and said that is what not a matter for him but a matter for the GAA and the residents :P

Slippery than a bar of soap.

Well, it's clear now at least, that the reasons he refused the concerts were for issues which he was aware of since February. It is also quite clear, that he did give quite clear indications all along that he was supportive of Garth Brooks playing five nights in a row at Croke Park and that all along, in pre licence application talks and post licence application talks.. that he was also constantly putting out the impression that all the GAA had to do was appease the residents and they would be granted the licence for five nights.

So along came Mulvey and brokered a deal which would see €500,000 going to a legacy fund for the residents and that a commitment would be made for no more than three concerts per year, which Croke Park would promise to honour and which the vast majority of the residents were more than happy with..... BUT that a hardline minority were not and who Mulvey suggested kept upturning the applecart down there for the rest of the majority, who were happy with the talks, and that they would continue to do so, as he got the impression that you would NEVER make them happy even if you dismantled the stadium and gave them all a brick. It was that element which in his opnion was the issue and what was causing the problems which was creating the impasse. An impasse which a bloody Castleknock resident and whoever created the forged complaints are responsible and an impasse which informed Owen Keegan's decision to not allow the five concerts to go ahead as there NOTHING else which possibly could have. It is that impasse which brought him to the conclusion that the GAA had not done what was required of them and so therefore he was not happy with granting a licence for five nights.

So.. it was the professional NIMBY brigade and the lengths to which they were willing to go to, which resulted in this mess. A mess which has embarrassed us at an international level. That and of course, a council official who didn't make sure that the reasons for which he was willing to cancel concerts, which 160,000 people held tickets for, and which was due to take place just three weeks later.. were legit and not nefariously motivated, which we all know now, bloody well were. So, if it wasn't for that damn concert promoter who had the gall to eh.. try and promote concerts and that fecking country and western singer who had the cheek to eh.. oh yeah, want to sing country and western songs for five nights in row, none of this bloody mess would have ever occurred in the first place.

Yes, the ultimate functionaire - I relish having all the authority, but for goodness sake, don't expect me to take any responsibility.

conorh91

beakerjoe wrote: »

Is this debate still goin on....let it go lads. More important things going on in the world.

stop contributing to it then; it's not mandatory to open it.

beakerjoe

It keeps popping up on the home screen, people need to let go.

conorh91

beakerjoe wrote: »

It keeps popping up on the home screen, people need to let go.

does anything else keep popping up, that you don't read?

It's a matter that's in the headlines, and that affects a substantial amount of people, and has the potential to affect licensing matters well into the future. Seriously if you don't want to read it, don't. Nobody is forcing you.

It is of concern to others who are interested in licensing and planning matters.

fedor.2.

conorh91 wrote: »

does anything else keep popping up, that you don't read?

It's a matter that's in the headlines, and that affects a substantial amount of people, and has the potential to affect licensing matters well into the future. Seriously if you don't want to read it, don't. Nobody is forcing you.

It is of concern to others who are interested in licensing and planning matters.

What a load of rubbish. Licensing and planning matters, is it....?. Sure isn't there a dedicated forum for that??

Titzon Toast

conorh91 wrote: »

does anything else keep popping up, that you don't read?

It's a matter that's in the headlines, and that affects a substantial amount of people, and has the potential to affect licensing matters well into the future. Seriously if you don't want to read it, don't. Nobody is forcing you.

It is of concern to others who are interested in licensing and planning matters.

Planning matters my arse. It's a load of angry line dancers still foaming at the mouth because their diety got told to do one.

Garth's not coming, get over it...

Dan_Solo

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Planning matters my arse. It's a load of angry line dancers still foaming at the mouth because their diety got told to do one.

Diety is right... he could do with one.