Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Was that ever in doubt? There is a small minority of them have such a deep hatred off the GAA it could be a mute sign language concert to 10 nuns in Croke Park and they'd still complain, they are separated from reality at this point.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Happyman42 wrote: »

Finally a post that reflects your username.

MonsterCookie

nm wrote: »

Was that ever in doubt? There is a small minority of them have such a deep hatred off the GAA it could be a mute sign language concert to 10 nuns in Croke Park and they'd still complain, they are separated from reality at this point.

Yawn.

Happyman42

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Finally a post that reflects your username.

Never happier...country is moving forward bit by bit.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Happyman42 wrote: »

Never happier...country is moving forward bit by bit.

By sticking our heads in the sand, pretending there is no problem with the way we are doing things and suggesting the real issue is with the detractors?

Who does that remind me of again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

Happyman42

In Bertie's time the 5 gigs would have gotten played, and the residents (those whom planning is there to protect by giving balanced decisions) would be sitting in despair as CP and Aiken planned 10 or 12 concerts for the next year.

Has the country come to a standstill because all 5 gigs are not going ahead?...no, life goes on. 'Most' people with lives are over it. And the residents now have empowerment and are no longer disenfranchised in the very community they live in.
They have struck a blow for disenfranchised residents everywhere.
Bertie is dead, he committed political suicide.

Red Nissan

Happyman42 wrote: »

They have struck a blow for disenfranchised residents everywhere. .

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

Piliger

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

I hope to goodness it is. Bloody nymby bullies.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Happyman42 wrote: »

In Bertie's time the 5 gigs would have gotten played, and the residents (those whom planning is there to protect by giving balanced decisions) would be sitting in despair as CP and Aiken planned 10 or 12 concerts for the next year.

He would in his arse. Yet again you show that you have little or no understanding of the area:

Hands off our Handball & Community Centre

An Taoiseach Mr Bertie Ahern TD officially re-opened the Centre on Sunday evening 5th February last.

Vinny Farrelly Chairman of the Croke Park Handball and Community Centre along with Eamon O’ Brien Chairman of the Croke Park Street Committees welcomed An Taoiseach to the centre. There were over 400 people in the centre for the arrival of the Taoiseach.

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern was taken on a tour of the centre where the Shika Do’s Little Dragons karate group were going through their paces, along with the Croke Park Dance Club and the Juvenile handball players. An Taoiseach spent time watching each group and had a photo shoot taken. Vinny Farrelly spoke first and welcomed An Taoiseach.

Vinny was delighted to see such a wonderful attendance. Farrelly said everyone fought hard to retain ownership of the centre.

What we have is something special, local and unique added Farrelly. Farrelly added they will be prepared to move only when they have a new centre with a bar licence to maintain funding for such a centre.

Eamon O’Brien then spoke and said all politicians showed solidarity with the community and all were behind them in getting the bar license restored to the club. "We are going to maintain a watching brief on the G.A.A.," said O'Brien.

"The G.A.A. planned to put us out of business and it was hypocrisy from the G.A.A. on the one hand allowing foreign sports into Croke Park and on the other damaging our national sport of handball" claimed O'Brien. "We have to be vigilant, we have won the battle but not the war."

ardle1

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

Ahhhhhhhh, makes no differs now,
Don't think Ireland will ever be offered the event off the decade again or anything similar.
HOW OH HOW DID IRELAND LET SUCH AN EVENT SLIP THROUGH ITS HANDS I'LL NEVER KNOW!

AngryHippie

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

Still waiting for you to upload your stetson eating video to youtube....:rolleyes:

Also the comment "legislation will soon be passed"

Are you basing this on your deep understanding of how legislation gets drafted, reviewed, proposed and "passed" or is this just more hole noise ?

Is there legislation before the oireachtas ?

would you prioritize this over health care reform ?

Tarzana

nm wrote: »

Was that ever in doubt? There is a small minority of them have such a deep hatred off the GAA it could be a mute sign language concert to 10 nuns in Croke Park and they'd still complain, they are separated from reality at this point.

Yeah, not all residents who are happy the concerts aren't happening have a "hatred" for the GAA...

Tarzana

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

New legislation will be passed, I'm sure, but I very much doubt that local residents won't be taken into account in the new provisions. Do you happen to know that residents won't be considered? If you do know this for sure, I trust you can provide us with evidence?

Tarzana

Piliger wrote: »

I hope to goodness it is. Bloody nymby bullies.

:pac::pac::pac:

bumper234

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, I THINK legislation MAY soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

FYP

bumper234

ardle1 wrote: »

Ahhhhhhhh, makes no differs now,
Don't think Ireland will ever be offered the event off the decade again or anything similar.
HOW OH HOW DID IRELAND LET SUCH AN EVENT SLIP THROUGH ITS HANDS I'LL NEVER KNOW!

Ireland didn't


Aiken, Brooks and the GAA did.

Barely There

Red Nissan wrote: »

On the contrary, legislation will soon be passed to ensure residents don't have this power ever again.

Planning legislation which won't allow people to make submissions to ABP?

Interesting.

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Barely There wrote: »

Planning legislation which won't allow people to make submissions to ABP?

Interesting.

Appeal process would be more suitable. So if a minority takes over like this, it can be appealed and the vast majority have a chance to come out in favour, the pros highlighted and taken into account, etc. and a decision can be come to that takes all on board.

bumper234

nm wrote: »

Appeal process would be more suitable. So if a minority takes over like this, it can be appealed and the vast majority have a chance to come out in favour, the pros highlighted and taken into account, etc. and a decision can be come to that takes all on board.

Ok so

200 people who are directly affected by 5 concerts in a row put in an objection.

DCC look at these objections and take them into account when making their decision.

Dcc decide that only 3 concerts will be licenced because 5 would be too much for the area.

2000/20,000/100,000 people whinge and moan about the decision and an appeal is mounted by Aiken/Mcd/whoever

Do you think the appeal should overturn the decision of DCC simply because a lot of people want the concerts to go ahead or should the licences be granted/refused on the basis of ALL circumstances being taken into account?

B0jangles

nm wrote: »

Appeal process would be more suitable. So if a minority takes over like this, it can be appealed and the vast majority have a chance to come out in favour, the pros highlighted and taken into account, etc. and a decision can be come to that takes all on board.

Surely that would cut both ways? If such a process already existed and the GB concerts had gotten approval, then the residents opposed to them could have used the appeals process to block them.

Also it would mean that the application would have to be put in months earlier to allow for any appeals to be heard.

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bumper234 wrote: »

Ok so

200 people who are directly affected by 5 concerts in a row put in an objection.

DCC look at these objections and take them into account when making their decision.

Dcc decide that only 3 concerts will be licenced because 5 would be too much for the area.

2000/20,000/100,000 people whinge and moan about the decision and an appeal is mounted by Aiken/Mcd/whoever

Do you think the appeal should overturn the decision of DCC simply because a lot of people want the concerts to go ahead or should the licences be granted/refused on the basis of ALL circumstances being taken into account?

As we've said a million times over the 200 objections don't have to be residents of the area, many aren't, nor do they have to be directly affected. Anyone in the country can moan and in this case does/did in particular those with a chip on their shoulder towards the GAA.

It's my opinion that before a change is made that is irreversible in law, it should have exactly the same right to be appealed before a final (irreversible) decision is made.

Easy, and fair.

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B0jangles wrote: »

Surely that would cut both ways? If such a process already existed and the GB concerts had gotten approval, then the residents opposed to them could have used the appeals process to block them.

Also it would mean that the application would have to be put in months earlier to allow for any appeals to be heard.

No problem with that here, as long as both sides are taken on board in full before the irreversible decision is made.

Would it be considered fair if your scenario went ahead, but when the residents went to appeal they were told sorry it's irreversible? Of course not.

And please don't come out with pro-concert residents should have let their non-objection (no such thing) be known before hand. As we know that's not how life works or I'd be getting onto Laois CC now to let them know I'm alright with Electric Picnic this year.

B0jangles

nm wrote: »

No problem with that here, as long as both sides are taken on board in full before the irreversible decision is made.

Would it be considered fair if your scenario went ahead, but when the residents went to appeal they were told sorry it's irreversible? Of course not.

And please don't come out with pro-concert residents should have let their non-objection (no such thing) be known before hand. As we know that's not how life works or I'd be getting onto Laois CC now to let them know I'm alright with Electric Picnic this year.

First of all, thank you for deciding for me what I was going to say!

What I was going to point out was that adding an appeals process would surely mean that all applications would have to be finalized and submitted several months earlier than the current deadline allows.
If we are to believe some of the posters in this thread who claim to know something about event planning, this would be nigh-impossible due to the need to get finalized plans for the stage set, seating arrangements etc.

I believe that was the crux of their argument in defence of Aiken making the GB application so close to the current 10 week deadline?

Happyman42

Anybody who thinks that legislation should or is going to be ushered in that removes the fundamental right to object is codding themselves and they still haven't learned the lesson of this.
The right to object has to be enshrined in planning law, otherwise what is the point.

On the subject of event planning appeals, the system has, more or less worked fine without a cumbersome appeals process. Apart from the issue of 'who will handle appeals' it is quite clear that if promoters listen, adapt and comply there is no history or evidence of a major problem (All promoters including Aiken are happy with the system)
The 'outline' planning idea could maybe be looked at.

Peppa Pig

nm wrote: »

As we've said a million times over the 200 objections don't have to be residents of the area, many aren't, nor do they have to be directly affected. Anyone in the country can moan and in this case does/did in particular those with a chip on their shoulder towards the GAA.

So you are saying that many objectors live nowhere near CP and most are anti-GAA.

You obviously have access to the objections, not just received by DCC but those verified as accurate by the Gardai. Otherwise you could not be able to make such a claim that a lot of them were from anti-GAA heads that live nowhere near Croke Park.
Would you care to back up your assertions or is it simply a theory you believe?

rubadub

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

I'm sure knew the risk of losing the three offered.

He knew the risk of even 1 going ahead, back when they originally planned on attempting to get croke park.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Would you not try and get all five? Would you not be angered? I would. I would tell them to stick the tickets up their arse and go and buy five myself and that is what how Brooks felt also.

I would be angered at being taken in by a confidence trickster, Aiken. This is giving garth the benefit of the doubt, which I don't think he deserves as the limits on concerts was so well known, it is incredible to believe nobody in his camp was aware. I would be well pissed off to have been so gullible, and to be duped by a conman but would have made the best of it and at least salvaged something for the fans lucky enough to have gotten tickets for a permissible show.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Stubbornness but people are acting like he just decided to cancel all shows for personal gain and that's not true.

A lot think he did it out of spite too. Also not to back down on his knee jerk ultimatum.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Surely it was licensed for 3 separate 'events' hence the requirement to submit 2 updated event management plans for the days with matinees?

This "1 event" excuse is laughable, read any of the published documents and nowhere does it hint that "event" could have meant several nights. I believe it was to cover any event, rather than say a "concert". Michael Jackson easily sold out 50 gigs in a venue 1/4 the capacity. So lets say 13 nights. To suggest "3 events" was understood to be potentially be 39 days in a row is ludicrous. Then they could just make planning for 365 days and call it "the big 365day event" and just pop in whatever bands they get in the meantime, like how electric picnic will continue to add acts as time goes on. If there are no acts they simply cancel that night.

The best line in the TV3 documentary was the narrator saying
"no one could have predicted the storm that was gathering"
Are you fucking joking?!

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/next-u2-gig-in-doubt-after-croke-park-protests-420411.html

Next U2 gig in doubt after Croke Park protests



28/07/2009 - 13:16:51
The next date of U2’s mammoth worldwide tour was in doubt today after protesters held up the removal of its custom-built stage from Croke Park.
Scores of residents mounted a picket outside the Drumcondra stadium, where the band last night finished three homecoming gigs in front of 240,000 fans.

http://www.herald.ie/news/residents-anger-at-premature-sales-of-u2-croke-park-gig-27908725.html

Residents' anger at 'premature' sales of U2 Croke Park gig

CLAIRE MURPHY – 18 APRIL 2009 09:58 AM

Residents in the vicinity of Croke Park have been angered by plans for U2's upcoming gigs

Locals were incensed that tickets for the concerts went on sale before the licence was granted by Dublin City Council.

Any application for a licence to hold a concert must be included in the weekly planning lists and printed in the national press. However, residents heard that the U2 concert would go ahead days before planning notice was printed.

"It has been simmering for a number of years but I think this was the straw that broke the camels back," said local councillor Emer Costello

That poor camel was on the ground knackered and Aiken & Garth were still laying the boot in.

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B0jangles wrote: »

First of all, thank you for deciding for me what I was going to say!

What I was going to point out was that adding an appeals process would surely mean that all applications would have to be finalized and submitted several months earlier than the current deadline allows.
If we are to believe some of the posters in this thread who claim to know something about event planning, this would be nigh-impossible due to the need to get finalized plans for the stage set, seating arrangements etc.

I believe that was the crux of their argument in defence of Aiken making the GB application so close to the current 10 week deadline?

We've been through all this about 200 pages or so ago, the solution is likely some sort of two stage application process as all the factors you mentioned will still be subject to change at that early point in application, and will need to be considered also before finalisation.

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Peppa Pig wrote: »

So you are saying that many objectors live nowhere near CP and most are anti-GAA.

You obviously have access to the objections, not just received by DCC but those verified as accurate by the Gardai. Otherwise you could not be able to make such a claim that a lot of them were from anti-GAA heads that live nowhere near Croke Park.
Would you care to back up your assertions or is it simply a theory you believe?

I'm repeating facts presented by anti-concert posters in this very thread that objections can come from anywhere in the country and do not have come from people even slightly affected by the concerts.

I believe this was in response to postings about the many genuine CP residents that came out in favour of the concerts and exclaimed that Tipperary man and Castleknock resident Eamon O’Brien does not represent them (not to mention Brian Duffs solo campaign backed by anti-GAA mystery men "north and south of the border").
The response was that it is of no odds where in the the country objections come from (sources in thread).

So by the same measuring stick then, anyone in the country should be allowed to appeal when, if ever, an appeals process exists.

Happyman42

nm wrote: »

I'm repeating facts presented by anti-concert posters in this very thread that objections can come from anywhere in the country and do not have come from people even slightly affected by the concerts.

I believe this was in response to postings about the many genuine CP residents that came out in favour of the concerts and exclaimed that Tipperary man and Castleknock resident Eamon O’Brien does not represent them (not to mention Brian Duffs solo campaign backed by anti-GAA mystery men "north and south of the border").
The response was that it is of no odds where in the the country objections come from (sources in thread).

So by the same measuring stick then, anyone in the country should be allowed to appeal when, if ever, an appeals process exists.

It is up to the professionals to evaluate the legitimacy of objections...doesn't matter where they come from or what motivates them. You can't be asking planners to second guess or run investigations every time an objection comes in.

If it is a valid objection then it is worthy of consideration in the final decision.