Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

Happyman42

currins_02 wrote: »

In the interest of fairness a couple of points.

Firstly, I doubt many of Brooks fans have grasped digital downloads yet.... LOL

Secondly, it is a matter of record for at least 5 years if not a decade that Brooks wouldn't allow digital sales for one reason - he believes his albums should only be sold as a piece and not as individual tracks. In terms of revenue track sales are much more lucrative but it's another of his "principles". The reason he has to go it alone, and it was alluded to at the conference, is he wants to retain the right to only sell the Albums as an album as opposed to putting x number of tracks on sale. Buy an album on itunes and it's cheaper than buying the tracks separately, but the vast majority of people don't buy albums in digital format just the tracks they want/like. Yes he wanted price control no doubt too but market forces will control that. The reality is the "principles" he has have cut his nose of to spite his face in terms of those digital sales for years. I believe but haven't checked his Greatest Hits topped the Irish charts again in the last 6 or 8 weeks, years after it's release and was the first chart topper in a number of years on physical sales only.

A quick Google of "Garth Brooks No digital Music" got just some of the following (all from first page, google will give preference to newer articles but feel free to go through tha pages)

http://tasteofcountry.com/garth-brooks-itunes/
http://www.artistdirect.com/entertainment-news/article/garth-brooks-explains-why-he-won-t-sell-his-music-on-itunes/10857220
http://www.cmt.com/news/cmt-offstage/1723019/garth-brooks-gets-a-lecture-from-blake-shelton.jhtml


It's actually slightly familiar reading many of articles with the many quotes of "For me it's full albums or not at all" (paraphrased). LOL. I think he's scheduled to join Spotify in 2019 !!!!!

As I say before he is a sideshow in all this as far as I am concerned but I do think we're all getting tied up at this stage in attacking one or all of Brooks, Aiken, GAA or Keegan. Often, unjustified and can be clarified with quick checks on Google.

His music is played as single tunes on the radio...it's how most people got into him and I would imagine that most of the frenzied 400,000 would only know at most 10 songs from his catalogue.
It's a fairly ridiculous stance to take at best and if it isn't motivated from a money point of view it certainly isn't one based on what fans would want. Patronising, 'Garth knows what is best for you'.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Happyman42 wrote: »

This guy lost a fortune on hats too I believe, but he saw the funny side, dusted himself off and turned disaster into triumph. Most businesses will do that...including Dunnes.

http://www.thescore.ie/ulster-final-clones-1580923-Jul2014/

Triumph is obviously much too strong a word, but I hope so nonetheless.

Happyman42

nm wrote: »

Triumph is obviously much too strong a word, but I hope so nonetheless.

Well so is the word 'disaster' when it is applied to businesses who won't make money here.

currins_02

Happyman42 wrote: »

His music is played as single tunes on the radio...it's how most people got into him and I would imagine that most of the frenzied 400,000 would only know at most 10 songs from his catalogue.
It's a fairly ridiculous stance to take at best and if it isn't motivated from a money point of view it certainly isn't one based on what fans would want. Patronising, 'Garth knows what is best for you'.

Again, No argument here, just pointing out that this has been widely published of the man for years. I would say, based on the wife(!) 10 would certainly be light but certainly most of his catalogue would be unknown to most people.

His fans, in the main seem to accept it though and good luck to them. Doesn't bother me. It has done his sales absolutely no harm and as per the link from USA Today earlier he is poised to outsell Elvis!

Similar if most people sued a hospital for return of a donation their stock would bomb but Brooks won praise in American media for doing so at the time, his profile and stock went up!! Now on face value it was bad, and if you Google it and read the context it is clear his principles were offended again. He does, to be fair, support many charities in the US & worldwide to the tune of millions, I think the Indo had an article around teh time tickets went on sale about him volunteering and supporting aid efforts in Haiti. All off thread I should say but the man has an incredible resilience with his fans is the point.

Even the cursory survey done by the ticket agent I posted of earlier would demonstrate that a large percentage can see little or no ill with his part in all this.

I was game to see the show as, with the wife being obsessed with him, we have a car full of the CD's and she has a set of DVD's of some of his live shows, including Croke Park, Central Park etc. Now I will give him this, his music I would say is what I view as "twee" but going on the DVD's his live shows were certainly a spectacle in terms of staging, production, performance etc. I'm a rock fan but in the interest of martial harmony I've been to big stadium shows with the likes of Robbie Williams, Westlife, Take That in various venues in Ireland, NI and UK and I find I can enjoy a well produced show without giving any credit to the music on stage (if that makes sense). I couldn't listen to Take That on the radio but their live show was definitely impressive. On the other hand, I'm neither annoyed nor upset we won't be going now.

NB we had 2 tickets bought on credit card and 2 in local ticket centre. Credit card refund came through Monday but wife only got refund form for cash bought tickets yesterday.

Fred Swanson

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Piliger

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The irony is delicious.

JRant

currins_02 wrote: »

100% with you on that. But without anyone putting themselves on the line interms of a minister or such the reality is it has been widely published that TD's far & wide have called for an independent review, Keegan has asked for one, the chair of the committee hinted at one ("not for us to decide..."). So I think, whether any of us like it, it is probably enevitable. It is, on the other hand, an industry worth 100's of millions and GB is a sideshow in the whole thing. The damage done to the reputation of Ireland in terms of the large event industry needs to be offset by some kind of action. Many big acts will now be nervous about committing to Ireland (even MCD, Aiken's nemesis has gone on record with this), the partial approval presents issues for the traditional Irish festivals, if we don't have the big acts, we don't get the revenue, the tax take on such events could sort out the Dublin homeless problem in one go (we all know that's not how it's spent but it was an analogy used, I think on Primetime, to highlight the value of such events to the exchequer), we have the affect on perihperal industries such as mine.

That is not to endorse trampling on the neighbours, abuse of process or such. To me, it wouldn't matter if it was a U2, Sawdoctors, Aslan (or Madonna, Green day, Pink Jean Michael Jarre, Mickey Bubbles... for that matter) gig that kicked this off, that's a side show, it's the affect on the industry that interests/worries me.

Promoters/Venues are not all angels, but nor are the officials they are dealing with being perceived to act "professionally" in my mind.

Given the money involved, not on this one event, but on the event industry as a whole on an annual basis, I would expect some kind of review will happen. I don't necessarily personally believe it will be of value or the best/easiest approach but that's still how our powers that be seem to love doing things.

I do wonder about the economic benefit of these large events though. The artist/s usually take a large slice of the action away with them.

The event organisers themselves seem to just hire in outside firms to run the food/drink side of things. Where these firms are from I have no idea but it seems that the same ones appear at events in England all the time.

Has anyone done actual research on the numbers or are we just talking MCD/Aiken/LiveNation on their word?

Ash.J.Williams

JRant wrote: »

I do wonder about the economic benefit of these large events though. The artist/s usually take a large slice of the action away with them.

The event organisers themselves seem to just hire in outside firms to run the food/drink side of things. Where these firms are from I have no idea but it seems that the same ones appear at events in England all the time.

Has anyone done actual research on the numbers or are we just talking MCD/Aiken/LiveNation on their word?

The revenue generated from the gigs is in the surrounding areas, due to increased footfall. Inside the venue with the exception of temp staff there is little revenue....Every hired hand i meet at MCD gigs seems to be from NI or Scotland!

JRant

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

LOL.

The aim of the Oireachtas review was to establish the chain of events, nothing more. John O'Mahony, chairperson of the Oireachtas hearing has called for an Independent review since and stated the following during his closing statements:

Let McKenna swear an affidavit and make those same claims without privilage. Then things could get really interesting.

Mind you, McKenna may tell us that time moves on and an affidavit not needed.

JRant

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The revenue generated from the gigs is in the surrounding areas, due to increased footfall. Inside the venue with the exception of temp staff there is little revenue....Every hired hand i meet at MCD gigs seems to be from NI or Scotland!

I would be very surprised if the value to the economy is 100's of millions then.

The true economic benefit could very well be a small gain but nowhere near the 100's millions being bandied about.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

The revenue generated from the gigs is in the surrounding areas, due to increased footfall. Inside the venue with the exception of temp staff there is little revenue....Every hired hand i meet at MCD gigs seems to be from NI or Scotland!

MCD use a Scottish security company. Aiken, going by the Bruce gigs anyway use all Irish from what I saw.

currins_02

JRant wrote: »

I do wonder about the economic benefit of these large events though. The artist/s usually take a large slice of the action away with them.

The event organisers themselves seem to just hire in outside firms to run the food/drink side of things. Where these firms are from I have no idea but it seems that the same ones appear at events in England all the time.

Has anyone done actual research on the numbers or are we just talking MCD/Aiken/LiveNation on their word?

The link is on here earlier somewhere were one of the web news sites (journal.ie, breakingnews.ie, liberty etc) can't remember which got an economist to independently forecast the economic loss and came up with a figure of €45m.

I would contend that the figure did not seem to account for many of peripheral industries, like for instance passenger transport. I have posted before my boss (one small operator - 7 vehicles) is out €14,000 in sales plus associated advertising costs. I saw somewhere that Farrelly's of Granard who have a specialist concert patron division were out €30,000 in sales.

To be fair I don't think I ever heard Aiken put a number on it, it was various bodies and TD's around Dublin who wanted the spin off (Vintners, Hotel federation etc) who came up with the numbers.

I have been involved for years with patron, crew and artiste transport at various times and I can say that while yes, there are certain specialist trades which are imported (as those businesses would not be viable here year round) but most of the suppliers as far as possible would be local. I know of a plant hire company who had bookings in the thousands to supply handling equipment and generators for the events (including rig & derig) during the traditionally quiet holiday season and that is all gone too. I know of a friend and colleague who works in the lighting rigging area and he invested on upgraded tools based on his projected earnings from this (tools he always desired but could never justify for single events) - a silly move, but you have to take chances in business I suppose - but he now has a cancelled booking and has spent a 5 figure some on specialist tools he can't really afford without that event. Most of the outer security is all Irish too as they have to be PSA licensed I understand, but some of the inner security (around the actual artiste and staging) may be their own crew. There is a company from Kildare, I think, (whose name escapes me) who do the catering at most large outdoor events in Ireland whether they're Aiken/MCD/Livenation, you may recall their directors were robbed as they arrived home from Slane in the last few years.

It should also be noted that I have seen estimates of 25,000-30,000 tickets sold in Northern Ireland (outside the 70,000 sold abroad if reports are to be believed) and if they don't travel but spend their money at home it is not simply displaced in the Irish economy. The displacement of the spend does little for the smaller industries directly affected by this. One of my cancelled patrons spending €100 on a meal at home this weekend does not make up for my lost wage, my employers lost work etc.

JRant

currins_02 wrote: »

The link is on here earlier somewhere were one of the web news sites (journal.ie, breakingnews.ie, liberty etc) can't remember which got an economist to independently forecast the economic loss and came up with a figure of €45m.

I would contend that the figure did not seem to account for many of peripheral industries, like for instance passenger transport. I have posted before my boss (one small operator - 7 vehicles) is out €14,000 in sales plus associated advertising costs. I saw somewhere that Farrelly's of Granard who have a specialist concert patron division were out €30,000 in sales.

To be fair I don't think I ever heard Aiken put a number on it, it was various bodies and TD's around Dublin who wanted the spin off (Vintners, Hotel federation etc) who came up with the numbers.

I have been involved for years with patron, crew and artiste transport at various times and I can say that while yes, there are certain specialist trades which are imported (as those businesses would not be viable here year round) but most of the suppliers as far as possible would be local. I know of a plant hire company who had bookings in the thousands to supply handling equipment and generators for the events (including rig & derig) during the traditionally quiet holiday season and that is all gone too. I know of a friend and colleague who works in the lighting rigging area and he invested on upgraded tools based on his projected earnings from this (tools he always desired but could never justify for single events) - a silly move, but you have to take chances in business I suppose - but he now has a cancelled booking and has spent a 5 figure some on specialist tools he can't really afford without that event. Most of the outer security is all Irish too as they have to be PSA licensed I understand, but some of the inner security (around the actual artiste and staging) may be their own crew. There is a company from Kildare, I think, (whose name escapes me) who do the catering at most large outdoor events in Ireland whether they're Aiken/MCD/Livenation, you may recall their directors were robbed as they arrived home from Slane in the last few years.

It should also be noted that I have seen estimates of 25,000-30,000 tickets sold in Northern Ireland (outside the 70,000 sold abroad if reports are to be believed) and if they don't travel but spend their money at home it is not simply displaced in the Irish economy. The displacement of the spend does little for the smaller industries directly affected by this. One of my cancelled patrons spending €100 on a meal at home this weekend does not make up for my lost wage, my employers lost work etc.

So very little net benefit then. It's money that would circulate in the economy regardless.

Ash.J.Williams

JRant wrote: »

Let McKenna swear an affidavit and make those same claims without privilage. Then things could get really interesting.

Mind you, McKenna may tell us that time moves on and an affidavit not needed.

Regarding swearing Keegan Said he supported the request? Keegan Has said he told McKenna he supported the event request....then he received the signatures from the cp residents and denied the license

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JRant wrote: »

So very little net benefit then. It's money that would circulate in the economy regardless.

Ha ha, ah god

Fred Swanson

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In Lonesome Dove

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

He would in his arse. Yet again you show that you have little or no understanding of the area:

Eamon o brien was the most vocal against the concerts.

If you type his name into youtube search, two videos come up, dated I think from the 30th of June. Him waffling on about croke park and the GAA and them being greedy and how croke park expanded and in his words - to take work from their local community with their 11 bars and 800 seat restaurant and now allows weddings to be held. He drops in waffle about Belfast and Cork and talks about one of his committees - Irish Stadiums Community Committee or something.

You see, there is a GAA stadium in Belfast known as Casement Park that is due an upgrade. The stadium down in Cork is also due an upgrade.

IMO, he's not campaigning for the love of these two counties but to drag down the GAA and prevent them from expanding. Expansion that would bring about much opportunities in relation to work for people of those counties.

The Irish Mirror wrote a piece about it before I copped onto to it. I'm not able to provide links because I am new but do a google search for

irishmirror.ie garth brooks croke park concerts 3830065

Peppa Pig

nm wrote: »

I'm repeating facts presented by anti-concert posters in this very thread that objections can come from anywhere in the country and do not have come from people even slightly affected by the concerts.

I believe this was in response to postings about the many genuine CP residents that came out in favour of the concerts and exclaimed that Tipperary man and Castleknock resident Eamon O’Brien does not represent them (not to mention Brian Duffs solo campaign backed by anti-GAA mystery men "north and south of the border").
The response was that it is of no odds where in the the country objections come from (sources in thread).

So by the same measuring stick then, anyone in the country should be allowed to appeal when, if ever, an appeals process exists.

You said

the 200 objections don't have to be residents of the area, many aren't, nor do they have to be directly affected. Anyone in the country can moan and in this case does/did in particular those with a chip on their shoulder towards the GAA.

You cannot back this up. Instead we get another unsubstantiated "fact" that many residents were pro-concerts.
You were asked to back up your assertions that many of the objectors were non-residents and most of them were anti-GAA.
You can point to one example for each scenario, neither of which is a confirmed objection.
You are making it up to support your argument.

This is the reason I stopped posting in this thread a while ago. It is full of pro Garth posters saying their opinion is actually fact, with no supporting evidence.

Peppa Pig

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Regarding swearing Keegan Said he supported the request? Keegan Has said he told McKenna he supported the event request....then he received the signatures from the cp residents and denied the license

Why not quote him in full as to what he said at the Oireachtas.
He said he told the GAA/Aiken he would support the concerts if they could get the residents onside.
They patently didn't.

Valkerie33

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Why not quote him in full as to what he said at the Oireachtas.
He said he told the GAA/Aiken he would support the concerts if they could get the residents onside.
They patently didn't.

Any Chance of the concerts happening or is it dead?

Reformed Character

Valkerie33 wrote: »

Any Chance of the concerts happening or is it dead?

Dead. Garth murdered all five of his children.:cool:

Fred Swanson

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JRant

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

Eamon o brien was the most vocal against the concerts.

If you type his name into youtube search, two videos come up, dated I think from the 30th of June. Him waffling on about croke park and the GAA and them being greedy and how croke park expanded and in his words - to take work from their local community with their 11 bars and 800 seat restaurant and now allows weddings to be held. He drops in waffle about Belfast and Cork and talks about one of his committees - Irish Stadiums Community Committee or something.

You see, there is a GAA stadium in Belfast known as Casement Park that is due an upgrade. The stadium down in Cork is also due an upgrade.

IMO, he's not campaigning for the love of these two counties but to drag down the GAA and prevent them from expanding. Expansion that would bring about much opportunities in relation to work for people of those counties.

The Irish Mirror wrote a piece about it before I copped onto to it. I'm not able to provide links because I am new but do a google search for

irishmirror.ie garth brooks croke park concerts 3830065

That is a wonderful tangent but what has it got to do with GB and the concerts.

JRant

Valkerie33 wrote: »

Any Chance of the concerts happening or is it dead?

Well thanks to this whole episode we have a new phrase in the english lexicon, Garth's choice.

It's quite harrowing really, a poor down on his luck performer is confronted by the evil Padzi's. Here he's give a choice, to either play a concert for a truck load of wonga or kill his kids. Real tear jerker stuff. Never fear though as the Brookolites come to his rescue near the end cause he's a good man and the love for his fans shines through.

There's a book/movie deal in there for someone really.

Fred Swanson

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Mrs Garth Brooks

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

Eamon o brien was the most vocal against the concerts.

If you type his name into youtube search, two videos come up, dated I think from the 30th of June. Him waffling on about croke park and the GAA and them being greedy and how croke park expanded and in his words - to take work from their local community with their 11 bars and 800 seat restaurant and now allows weddings to be held. He drops in waffle about Belfast and Cork and talks about one of his committees - Irish Stadiums Community Committee or something.

You see, there is a GAA stadium in Belfast known as Casement Park that is due an upgrade. The stadium down in Cork is also due an upgrade.

IMO, he's not campaigning for the love of these two counties but to drag down the GAA and prevent them from expanding. Expansion that would bring about much opportunities in relation to work for people of those counties.

The Irish Mirror wrote a piece about it before I copped onto to it. I'm not able to provide links because I am new but do a google search for

irishmirror.ie garth brooks croke park concerts 3830065

Oh you mean this one with the bitter residents and their handball alley. If it wasnt for GB people wouldn't know about their issues....like we give a fcuk about their handball alley and a bar. They should have let it go, it was between them and the GAA and no one else. But they wanted to drag everyone else down.

He has also set up Irish Stadium Communities Association.

He is completely against the redevelopment of stadiums, full stop.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/garth-brooks-croke-park-concerts-3830065

JRant

Fred Swanson wrote: »

Liam Neeson plays the hard nosed city manager.

With Leslie Nielsen playing the Aiken role.

Valkerie33

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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that sucks

JRant

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

Oh you mean this one with the bitter residents and their handball alley. If it wasnt for GB people wouldn't know about their issues....like we give a fcuk about their handball alley and a bar. They should have let it go, it was between them and the GAA and no one else. But they wanted to drag everyone else down.

He has also set up Irish Stadium Communities Association.

He is completely against the redevelopment of stadiums, full stop.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/whats-on/music-nightlife-news/garth-brooks-croke-park-concerts-3830065

Like the handball alley members give a single fück about you and your concerts or lack there of.

You seem to be getting more angry as the concert date gets closer.

Valkerie33

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I'd pay $$ to see that..who plays Garth? and like pantomime...who is the villain