Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

beakerjoe

Faolchu wrote: »

coz bill ray is ****e

Brookzer aint much better

Muahahaha

rubadub wrote: »

I mentioned this.


I imagine lots of binge drinking goes on in the dail bar.

Its weird how people are so oblivious & hypocritical about these things. Imagine some fully legal headshop owner moaning when eminem was cancelled about all the missed oppurtunity to sell party pills and smoking blends.

Fair play, when I heard the LVA come out with the €15m figure a few weeks ago it really perked my ears because just about a week earlier there was some medical report on the news proclaiming 3 pints to be binge drinking and how the new figures mean that large amounts of the drinking population are binge drinkers.

In any case if the LVA were rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of 400,000 people getting locked drunk and handing them over €15m then there is something about that that is in stark contrast of the message supposedly being sold by the HSE.

In Lonesome Dove

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah I think that's correct. People have put it behind them except for the 'Super Fans' who see it as part of their duty to defend Brooks even if he shat on their Cornflakes.



Likewise I have zero sympathy for any of those organisations and their promises of temporary minimum wage jobs for 5 days and nights. The hoteliers were pure gougers in this, they couldn't fleece the public enough. No doubt the publicans were planning similar price hikes for a few days too.

Just as an aside too and something I think no one picked up on or at least made a point of. The Licensed Vintners Association who represent Dublin publicans came out and said that not having the concerts would cost their members €15m. I did the maths on that and if you allow €5 per drink of beer, bottled beer or glass of wine then the LVA were estimating that 3 million drinks would be sold to 400,000 people which works out at 7.5 drinks per person. Then you have to allow for the fact that 20% of the Irish population don't drink so what you're looking at is 3 million drinks for 320,000 people which works out at 9.3 drinks per person.

So it seems like even the LVAs own figures and estimates show that they fully expected people to go along to this concert and engage in an all day drinking session and get locked. Then they'd be kicked out on the streets surrounding Croker in that state. The LVA won't care because it's no longer their problem and the money is in the till. Let the residents deal with people pissing in their gardens. Even the LVAs own estimates further strengthen the arguments of the residents, there is a world of difference between a sporting crowd out to watch 70 minutes of GAA and a concert crowd who congregate in the area from lunchtime, drink heavily all day and then finally leave the area sometime after 11pm that night.



You've only got 500 odd pages of this thread to read to find out. Let us know when you do :pac:



I used to like the guy but these days he annoys me. He's like the hurler on the ditch, always knows the right thing to do but says it so often no one listens to him anymore.

Are all Dublin people as small minded as this?

You took an estimate figure and did some sums to make it fit and endorse the ignorance of the croker moaners who claim concert goers do nothing more but knock about the place drunk creating piss filled streets.

The pubs where I am from sell more than just drink. There's menus with food.

Faolchu

rubadub wrote: »

Yes you certainly can. Your comment was the first time I ever heard it being suggested that people should expect to pay extra if a gig is being filmed.

If I was in some celebrity chefs restaurant and they were filming a dvd of his at the time and the crew were disturbing the atmosphere I would certainly not expect to pay extra to cover their wages.

agreed but I wasnt implying thats the reason for the ticket price. he is known for keeping ticket prices as low as possible. liek i said even teh current show in Chicago is €65 which is IMO a bargain price.

to be honest I'd say the price was based on overheads for all the crew so expenses for the stage, crew, filming & then his pay packet, the bands pay packed this came to say 50%-75% of the cost (a complete guess) the rest was then added on for the likes of Aiken, the GAA and possibly the support act

Cienciano

rubadub wrote: »

U2's 360 tour in croke park had a ridiculously expensive stage setup. Pretty sure it was over €30 though.

Different prices tickets, but one I had in the Hogan stand cost me €30 or €35. Think I still have the stub at home. And yes, that stage and lighting is going to be a lot bigger than anything brooks is going to have.

currins_02

Cienciano wrote: »

Different prices tickets, but one I had in the Hogan stand cost me €30 or €35. Think I still have the stub at home. And yes, that stage and lighting is going to be a lot bigger than anything brooks is going to have.

U2 are consistantly one of the most expensive tickets around. If it was in Croke Park in 2009 I was in the Hogan Stand too and I thought I paid around €90, so I went back to Google and found this link where the poster indicates it was €92 a seat.

http://www.elevation-tour.com/reviewdetails5375.html

€80 - €90 would be average for big stadium shows here in last few years (and in recent years I've been to Croke Park, RDS, Aviva, Slane and Punchestown for various large outdoor gigs).

To be fair to Brooks his tickets were cheap, add in one of his many "principles" is that all tickets are the same price. There is no difference between seated and standing, no golden circle, no VIP package. I do know someone who paid (through ticketmaster not a tout) over €300 for a golden circle VIP ticket for Bon Jovi in Slane in 2013. Hardly, the most lucrative way to do business for Brooks but one of the "principles" Brooks has adopted for years. I'd endorse this one and welcome it, whereas his other "principles" often end up with him cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Here's a question, if it was U2 looking at doing a 5 night (Friday - Tuesday) stand for a farewell gig in Croker (many rumours circling they are to hang up their boots), how would we feel? No waffle, no pro artist waffle, no anti GAA nonsense, just a simple "For" or "Against"?

Peppa Pig

currins_02 wrote: »

To be fair to Brooks his tickets were cheap, add in one of his many "principles" is that all tickets are the same price. There is no difference between seated and standing, no golden circle, no VIP package.

So who decided this?

The new batch of tickets will be available for purchase from 9am this Friday (May 2) priced €65.45 for a standard ticket or €80 for premium and are available from Ticketmaster Outlets Nationwide.

Hot Press

Muahahaha

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

Are all Dublin people as small minded as this?

You took an estimate figure and did some sums to make it fit and endorse the ignorance of the croker moaners who claim concert goers do nothing more but knock about the place drunk creating piss filled streets.

The pubs where I am from sell more than just drink. There's menus with food.

It wasn't my estimate, it was the LVAs estimate which would mean it more accurate than ever as their members already know what an 80,000 sell out concert means to their revenue. So if you're going to argue with the figures then take up your battle with the publicans who produced them. They're the ones flogging the beer so they of all people know what it's worth. It's not that difficult to divide that figure by €5 to find out how much drink they were planning on selling and it's not that difficult to see that those estimates show us they fully expect the crowd to get rat arsed drunk. I don't begrudge them that, sure I do it at concerts all the time myself, though I don't behave like a dick on the way home like I've seen many people do over the years, not just round Croker, Slane, Punchestown, Poiint, doesn't matter where when you have a crowd of 80,000 people who are pretty hammered then all you need is 1% to play up and suddenly you've got 800 people pissing in gardens acting the bollox.

That's part and parcel of concerts in Ireland because when they're over all the stewards go home and they don't police the neighbouring streets like I've seen them do in other countries. If we did that in Ireland then we wouldn't have the problems we have. They now do it in Slane because the residents made them after years of people pissing and ****ting in their gardens and kicking flowers for the craic. Nowadays when you walk from the concert site in Slane you'll see stewards every few hundred metres for two miles until you get to the bus collection point on the far side of the river. When you walk from a concert in Croke Park you can easily walk up Clonliffe Road and not see any stewards until you meet a few Gardai at the Quinn's pub too busy directing traffic to be taking notice of much else.

Slane sorted out their problems with concert goers and the residents, I don't see why Croke Park can't, the only thing stopping them is laziness and arrogance.

currins_02

Peppa Pig wrote: »

So who decided this?


Hot Press

Beats me. I know that there was only one ticket price option on Ticketmaster when we bought ours (i.e. could choose standing, seated upper or lower tier etc but all same price) - Her indoors would have bought the Premium ones no question, especially at that price. Brooks made much of it on his press conference and if you check out the Chicago Gig details on Brooks own website or press releases it's $65 end of story. Ticketmaster only putting Chicago on sale tomorrow I see so we can check then.

Accept completely if I'm wrong but there was no €80 option when we bought online, that I recall. Brooks made much of this for many years that he treats all fans the same.

Incidently €80 would still be incredibly cheap at present for a "premium" ticket for a stadium show with an international headliner here.

I don't really care just trying to add balance here. But whichever "side" you're perceived to be on here there is no room for balance, it's just attack straight away. I have no interest in Brooks etc as I've posted many times. My wife does worship the ground he walks on. I was interested in seeing the show as he is known to be a spectacle but that's as far as my gra for him goes. It does affect me as a peripheral worker and the future impact worries me.

beakerjoe

currins_02 wrote: »

Incidently €80 would still be incredibly cheap at present for a "premium" ticket for a stadium show with an international headliner here.

I thought he was only famous in the States and Here

currins_02

beakerjoe wrote: »

I thought he was only famous in the States and Here

Pedantics lads, is that not International? I was meaning in comparison to the other international acts who would come here and do stadium shows? You would stuggle to get a bog standard standing seat (on average) for U2, Bon Jovi, Michael Buble, Take That etc for €80 never mind a "Premium" ticket. Jesus lads, save the keyboard warrier stuff for someone arguing against you!

Muahahaha

currins_02 wrote: »

U2 are consistantly one of the most expensive tickets around. If it was in Croke Park in 2009 I was in the Hogan Stand too and I thought I paid around €90, so I went back to Google and found this link where the poster indicates it was €92 a seat.

http://www.elevation-tour.com/reviewdetails5375.html

€80 - €90 would be average for big stadium shows here in last few years (and in recent years I've been to Croke Park, RDS, Aviva, Slane and Punchestown for various large outdoor gigs).

To be fair to Brooks his tickets were cheap, add in one of his many "principles" is that all tickets are the same price. There is no difference between seated and standing, no golden circle, no VIP package. I do know someone who paid (through ticketmaster not a tout) over €300 for a golden circle VIP ticket for Bon Jovi in Slane in 2013. Hardly, the most lucrative way to do business for Brooks but one of the "principles" Brooks has adopted for years. I'd endorse this one and welcome it, whereas his other "principles" often end up with him cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Here's a question, if it was U2 looking at doing a 5 night (Friday - Tuesday) stand for a farewell gig in Croker (many rumours circling they are to hang up their boots), how would we feel? No waffle, no pro artist waffle, no anti GAA nonsense, just a simple "For" or "Against"?

IIRC U2s 360 tour came with some tickets (maybe 10-15%) costing €3o or 35 each with the remainder being €60 and up. I think they did it right across Europe because back in 2009 we were in the throws of a deep economic crises and Bono is down with the fans and all:)

To answer your other question I'd be in favour of 5 nights in a row for any artist provided the residents were okay with it.

What you mention about U2 is ironic though because if they are indeed to retire then a five or six night run would be sellable. No doubt Bonos has been looking on at the Brooks saga and learning lessons too. Perhaps he might persuade the residents to let him play six nights in exchange for a statue of Bono himself, erected in their area

currins_02

Muahahaha wrote: »

. Nowadays when you walk from the concert site in Slane you'll see stewards every few hundred metres for two miles until you get to the bus collection point on the far side of the river. .

Agree with your sentiments re Croker. That said, if you were coming from the Northern approach to Slane at both gigs in 2013 (attended Bon Jovi and drove a coach to both Bon Jovi & Eminem), the route was well stewarded to the cross roads on Slane Main St. No perceivable stewards from there the whole way up Main St (past businesses, houses etc) to designated car parks off N2 and Coach Park at fertilizer plant. Then heaps of stewards in the car/coach parks. Had a passenger assaulted on Main St and fact was no stewards to be had.

Fully endorse your view re Croke Park though.

currins_02

Muahahaha wrote: »

IIRC U2s 360 tour came with some tickets (maybe 10-15%) costing €3o or 35 each with the remainder being €60 and up. I think they did it right across Europe because back in 2009 we were in the throws of a deep economic crises and Bono is down with the fans and all:)

Possibly a small allocation at that price, don't know. I'm sure we paid around €180 for 2 for the Hogan Stand and the link I posted seems to endorse that. I have no way to check now though other than Google searches as stub/card statement would both be long gone.

I agree with the review though, thought the 360 show was all show no substance and took away from the music.

Anyway, back to my question, straight "for" or "against". U2, hypothetically, announce a Farewell event, five nights in Croke Park, Friday to Tuesday - "for" or "against"?

I'd be For

No waffle / No Pro Brooks or Anti Brooks / No Pro Aiken anti Aiken / No pro DCC or anti DCC / No pro residents or anti residents - just a simple for or against. I'm curious.

Muahahaha

currins_02 wrote: »

Agree with your sentiments re Croker. That said, if you were coming from the Northern approach to Slane at both gigs in 2013 (attended Bon Jovi and drove a coach to both Bon Jovi & Eminem), the route was well stewarded to the cross roads on Slane Main St. No perceivable stewards from there the whole way up Main St (past businesses, houses etc) to designated car parks off N2 and Coach Park at fertilizer plant. Then heaps of stewards in the car/coach parks. Had a passenger assaulted on Main St and fact was no stewards to be had.

Fully endorse your view re Croke Park though.

Yeah for sure Slane doesn't always get it right, I think it was 2010 they had massive problems with Dublin Bus leaving people stranded. Nonetheless I think the comparison between how it is policed and how Croker is policed holds very true. There is a recognition on behalf of Lord Henry Montcharles and MCD who promote it that the residents have to put up with a lot of disruption. They're okay with that aspect but when people start pissing and ****ting in the gardens or throwing cans over their wall that's when a line has been crossed. Lord He ry and MCD have recognised that and taken steps to police outside the venue properly by placing stewards in visible locations. On the other hand Croker stewards (and I've been one myself in the past) only have to ensure the stadium is empty before their shift finishes. You won't be seeing any of them out on the back streets of Croke Park providing a visible deterrent to that 1% who are hyper and drunk after a good concert and all day drinking sessions and now couldn't care less what disturbances they cause. That's the sad thing about this, it's the 1% of idiots who are ruining this for the rest. I've gone to tons of gigs over the years and that 1% is always present and needs to be policed! especially directly after the gig till the crowd disperses. I've seen lads kick wing mirrors off a row of cars in the Phoenix Park, for no reason other than there was no-one around to deter them. If you live in an area and that's going on to you constantly after concerts well then it's pretty understandable that you'd either want something done about it or failing that, not have any concerts at all.

It's not beyond the GAA to solve this problem with the residents. Moving forward I reckon they should permit four gigs per year but put a €1 tax on every ticket. If the post concert policing issues are sorted out and the residents know that every year 320,000 concert goers is equal to a €320,000 Community Fund which would pay out every time there's concerts then they'll soon play ball. After a couple of years they'd easily have the money to build a swimming pool, library, sports centre, etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

currins_02 wrote: »

Possibly a small allocation at that price, don't know. I'm sure we paid around €180 for 2 for the Hogan Stand and the link I posted seems to endorse that. I have no way to check now though other than Google searches as stub/card statement would both be long gone.

I agree with the review though, thought the 360 show was all show no substance and took away from the music.

Anyway, back to my question, straight "for" or "against". U2, hypothetically, announce a Farewell event, five nights in Croke Park, Friday to Tuesday - "for" or "against"?

I'd be For

No waffle / No Pro Brooks or Anti Brooks / No Pro Aiken anti Aiken / No pro DCC or anti DCC / No pro residents or anti residents - just a simple for or against. I'm curious.

Depends on whether there was sufficient protest, but I'd accept the decision made. That said, I'm no more or less,if a fan of U2 than I am of Brooks.I don't think U2 would get themselves in such a farcical situation, though.

Cienciano

currins_02 wrote: »

Brooks made much of this for many years that he treats all fans the same.

According to Aiken, Brooks was bring a scaled down show to Croke Park when he thought he was doing 2 or 3 shows. It wasn't until he sold out all 5 that he decided to bring the proper full stage. So he doesn't treat all his fans the same.

currins_02 wrote: »

Possibly a small allocation at that price, don't know. I'm sure we paid around €180 for 2 for the Hogan Stand and the link I posted seems to endorse that. I have no way to check now though other than Google searches as stub/card statement would both be long gone.

Here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7931974.stm

Mr McGuinness said tickets would vary in price from 30 euros (£27) to 95 euros (£85).

And here:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/269275/exclusive-u2-readies-360-global-tour

Field level is going to be $55, and there will be 10,000 tickets a show, every show, at $30, Fogel says. The price points are $250, $90-$95, depending on the market; $55 and $30.

And if you see my post history, you'll see I don't like U2 since 1990, and I think Bono and The Edge are tossers. But fair play to them for putting reasonably priced tickets on sale.

currins_02

Thanks folks. Just try keep if "for" or "against".

I've posted repeatedly I would fully accept a full refusal for such an event or full passing. I do not nor did not agree with some new hybrid 3 on 2 off version.

All I'm asking now is "for" or "against" a U2 five night stand, don't need to justify or clarify , just "for" or "against" on the assumption the process is followed, professionalism applied by all throughout and a decision made

currins_02

Cienciano wrote: »

According to Aiken, Brooks was bring a scaled down show to Croke Park when he thought he was doing 2 or 3 shows. It wasn't until he sold out all 5 that he decided to bring the proper full stage. So he doesn't treat all his fans the same.


Here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7931974.stm

And here:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/269275/exclusive-u2-readies-360-global-tour

And if you see my post history, you'll see I don't like U2 since 1990, and I think Bono and The Edge are tossers. But fair play to them for putting reasonably priced tickets on sale.

Ah well, we got caught at the top end so.

Well my interpretation is that Brooks was scalling the show up based on the extra shows is what Aiken said but I will grant that can interpreted as a scaled down show before. Not even going to start arguing that, I'm not here to defend or endorse Brooks but I don't like when the balance is unfairly upset on either side.

conorh91

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I don't think U2 would get themselves in such a farcical situation, though.

They got themselves into a very similar problem in 1997, when they sold tickets to play in Lansdowne Road, as it was then known.

http://www.mtv.com/news/784/u2s-dublin-shows-blocked-by-high-court/

The decision was overturned in the Supreme Court of course, which is probably why people have forgotten about it. Common sense prevailed and the concerts went ahead.

http://www.mtv.com/news/817/supreme-court-rules-u2-dublin-concert-can-go-on/

The original suit brought to block the Irish-quartet’s concerts was filed by residents living near the rugby stadium. Along with the primary decision permitting the shows, the court further ruled that residents would not be allowed to file additional suits to stop the concerts once they have begun, according
to the Irish Times.

For the 40,000 fans who had already purchased tickets for U2′s colorful PopMart concerts — featuring the world’s largest video screen, a towering golden arch and a two-story inflatable lemon — before the High Court blocked them, Friday’s ruling surely comes as relief.

But Wasserman said that many Americans would also be breathing easier
following the Supreme Court decision.

“There are about a half-dozen travel agencies that I know of that have offered package trips to Dublin hotels and the U2 concerts. They were calling us all week asking, ‘Has there been a decision made?’ Some of these travel agencies had already sold tickets.”

currins_02

Just "for" or "against"

Peppa Pig

currins_02 wrote: »

Accept completely if I'm wrong but there was no €80 option when we bought online, that I recall. Brooks made much of this for many years that he treats all fans the same.

It's in the article that these were tickets that were not taken as options by holding premium level tickets giving them the right to buy tickets for any event. They were still available for Sat/Sun/Mon/Tue before he refused to play.
It simply shows that if Garth Brooks had a principle of one ticket one price then he no longer has that principle.

currins_02 wrote: »

there is no room for balance, it's just attack straight away.

All I asked was who decided to charge differently this time around. It was a query.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Happyman42 wrote: »

How did it 'fail'...the decision was to grant a licence for 3 gigs.

Sigh. Like I said: just because the outcome pleases you, does not mean the current verification system is sufficient. You seem to be unable to make that, quite obvious, distinction.

Please pay attention: Bogus complaints were made to the council. Many of these involved forging signatures of locals. The council's verification system only uncovered a very small percentage of those forgeries. It took a Garda investigation being launched to uncover the true extent of them. That investigation is still underway and we still do not know, with any great accuracy, how many of the complaints were genuine and how many were not. Which is quite something when you consider that Owen Keegan has stated that the complaints from the residents was the main reason which DCC refused to licence the Mon and Tues night shows.

And yet you try and tell us that the system did not fail? A system which allowed bogus complaints to slip through the net, which resulted in a Garda investigation?? Well, if that's the case, I'd hate to see a verification system that you would deemed to have failed.

DCC instigated the Gardai involvement here...nobody else.

They discovered dubious objections and called in the Gardai...perfectly responsible and adequate.

Eh, yes - that solidifies my point. It's doesn't negate it. The fact that they had to call the Guards because forged complaints slipped through, shows that the current verification system failed. If it hadn't, then they wouldn't have needn't to call the bloody cops. The solution is to give them more powers and change the open door policy on complaints. Then, if anyone is foolish enough to forge them, they might have a better bloody chance of catching who is responsible that they currently do, seeing as the system that was in place required fcuk all identification details. That's the same system which you think is working just fine. It beggars belief that anyone would make such a claim.

Those wanting 5 gigs also had agendas...One of which was to undermine legitimate objections, which NOBODY can say don't exist.

Anyone who wishes to undermine legitimate objections is wrong. I have already said that I feel the residents deserve a legal binding agreement with the venue and one which it won't be able to circumvent. Ie: that the council will just be able to say something akin to: 'There's already four concerts planned for Croke Park this year and so I'm afraid you will only be able to have one' . That's assuming that the agreement would be for five and that a license would even be needed if such an agreement were in place.

As long as the criteria is, 'Is this a valid objection' it doesn't really matter who sent it in anyway.

Of course it bloody matters. Nobody should be able to object twice for example and nor should they be able to invent people, or submit a complaint on another's behalf. Are you even thinking before you type?

dodzy

Can't get my head around how this thread is still so active. It's all been said.......god only knows how many times.

rubadub

Faolchu wrote: »

agreed but I wasnt implying thats the reason for the ticket price.

Faolchu wrote: »

reports are that Brooks stage was to be massive (all of the Hill i believe with multiple massive screens but I am open to correction) add to this the film crew etc for the documentary that was to be filmed. if you consider this €60 was a reasonable price IMO.

You were asking for this to be considered while thinking of the price. I took it as being part of the reason.

Nobody else had the sheer audacity to attempt to have 5 gigs in a row, if they did they could similarly have afforded to have offered cheaper tickets if they wanted. Garth refused to play 3 gigs, not profitable enough for his liking. So you would really need to know at what price he would have played 3 night for.

currins_02 wrote: »

Anyway, back to my question, straight "for" or "against". U2, hypothetically, announce a Farewell event, five nights in Croke Park, Friday to Tuesday - "for" or "against"?

I would say against, simply because I do not have enough info. It seems you are trying to compare this to what Aiken & Garth did. If they acted in anyway like this then I would most certainly say "against".

If U2 acted in the way I reckon they would it might be "for". In this hypothetical year would croke park already have surpassed the limit for events that year, the limit at which residents are almost certainly going to object. 4 events were already planned this year. For the 360 tour U2 got an unprecendented 3 gigs, bringing events to 4 that year in croke park, and there was fucking war over that happening, as fully expected. For Garth to get a single gig this year would have set a whole new precedent.

Reformed Character

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Sigh. Like I said: just because the outcome pleases you, does not mean the current verification system is sufficient. You seem to be unable to make that, quite obvious, distinction.

Please pay attention: Bogus complaints were made to the council. Many of these involved forging signatures of locals. The council's verification system only uncovered a very small percentage of those forgeries (says who?). It took a Garda investigation being launched to uncover the true extent of them(again untrue, since the Gardaí have not reported on their findings you are again presenting conjecture as fact!). That investigation is still underway and we still do not know, with any great accuracy, how many of the complaints were genuine and how many were not. Which is quite something when you consider that Owen Keegan has stated that the complaints from the residents was the main reason which DCC refused to licence the Mon and Tues night shows(He also stated that they disregarded the bogus ones, thus the bogus ones, all 11 of them did not influence the DCC decision).

And yet you try and tell us that the system did not fail? A system which allowed bogus complaints to slip through the net(They didn't slip through the net, if the had done so we wouldn't know about them), which resulted in a Garda investigation?? Well, if that's the case, I'd hate to see a verification system that you would deemed to have failed.



Eh, yes - that solidifies my point. It's doesn't negate it. The fact that they had to call the Guards because forged complaints slipped through(more lies, the called the guards because the false objections didn't slip through, they were discovered by DCC), shows that the current verification system failed. If it hadn't, then they wouldn't have needn't to call the bloody cops. The solution is to give them more powers and change the open door policy on complaints. Then, if anyone is foolish enough to forge them, they might have a better bloody chance of catching who is responsible that they currently do, seeing as the system that was in place required fcuk all identification details. That's the same system which you think is working just fine. It beggars belief that anyone would make such a claim.



Anyone who wishes to undermine legitimate objections is wrong. I have already said that I feel the residents deserve a legal binding agreement with the venue and one which it won't be able to circumvent. Ie: that the council will just be able to say something akin to: 'There's already four concerts planned for Croke Park this year and so I'm afraid you will only be able to have one' . That's assuming that the agreement would be for five and that a license would even be needed if such an agreement were in place. It would be under the current law, you do realise that others apart from resident objected?



Of course it bloody matters. Nobody should be able to object twice for example and nor should they be able to invent people, or submit a complaint on another's behalf. Are you even thinking before you type?

I think addresses the lies and misrepresentations in that ill thought out post.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Reformed Character wrote: »

I think addresses the lies and misrepresentations in that ill thought out post.

Could you reply to my post in a normal way, please.

It's barely readable and how I am supposed to quote your reply, when you have posted it inside where you quoted me.

Cheers.

Reformed Character

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Could you reply to my post in a normal way, please.

It's barely readable and how I am supposed to quote your reply, when you have posted it inside where you quoted me.

Cheers.

Build a bridge!:rolleyes:

In Lonesome Dove

Muahahaha wrote: »

It wasn't my estimate, it was the LVAs estimate which would mean it more accurate than ever as their members already know what an 80,000 sell out concert means to their revenue. So if you're going to argue with the figures then take up your battle with the publicans who produced them. They're the ones flogging the beer so they of all people know what it's worth. It's not that difficult to divide that figure by €5 to find out how much drink they were planning on selling and it's not that difficult to see that those estimates show us they fully expect the crowd to get rat arsed drunk. I don't begrudge them that, sure I do it at concerts all the time myself, though I don't behave like a dick on the way home like I've seen many people do over the years, not just round Croker, Slane, Punchestown, Poiint, doesn't matter where when you have a crowd of 80,000 people who are pretty hammered then all you need is 1% to play up and suddenly you've got 800 people pissing in gardens acting the bollox.

That's part and parcel of concerts in Ireland because when they're over all the stewards go home and they don't police the neighbouring streets like I've seen them do in other countries. If we did that in Ireland then we wouldn't have the problems we have. They now do it in Slane because the residents made them after years of people pissing and ****ting in their gardens and kicking flowers for the craic. Nowadays when you walk from the concert site in Slane you'll see stewards every few hundred metres for two miles until you get to the bus collection point on the far side of the river. When you walk from a concert in Croke Park you can easily walk up Clonliffe Road and not see any stewards until you meet a few Gardai at the Quinn's pub too busy directing traffic to be taking notice of much else.

Slane sorted out their problems with concert goers and the residents, I don't see why Croke Park can't, the only thing stopping them is laziness and arrogance.

I know you didn't make up that figure and the estimate of 15 million came from the LVA but you took that figure and applied it to drink sales and drink sales only and that wouldn't be true. That estimate figure would be from the estimated drink and food sales.

I agree with you about the rest. There will always be a small minority that will fùck things up for the rest. I think your guess figure of 800 is too much though. I attended the galway volvo ocean race in 2012. Over 800,000 people came and visited the dockland area and claddagh. That would be over 100,000 people a day. I went into the festivities every day and stayed all day. As part of that festivities there were concerts too. Galway managed very well. I was completely sober throughout so I never had a foggy brain or head on me. I didn't see any badness during that week with drunkeness or anything else except for once on the closing night. Some kid, looked about 12, plastered drunk without a leg a to stand on and 2 gardai holding him up.

Muahahaha

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

I know you didn't make up that figure and the estimate of 15 million came from the LVA but you took that figure and applied it to drink sales and drink sales only and that wouldn't be true. That estimate figure would be from the estimated drink and food sales.

I agree with you about the rest. There will always be a small minority that will fùck things up for the rest. I think your guess figure of 800 is too much though. I attended the galway volvo ocean race in 2012. Over 800,000 people came and visited the dockland area and claddagh. That would be over 100,000 people a day. I went into the festivities every day and stayed all day. As part of that festivities there were concerts too. Galway managed very well. I was completely sober throughout so I never had a foggy brain or head on me. I didn't see any badness during that week with drunkeness or anything else except for once on the closing night. Some kid, looked about 12, plastered drunk without a leg a to stand on and 2 gardai holding him up.

Granted food would be included in that figure but in my own experience of concerts in Ireland it's all about the drink, you might have a hot dog or burger at some stage in the stadium/venue more to sober up than anything but I've certainly never gone to a gig and sat down for a full carvery meal beforehand.

Further to this many pubs around Croke Park don't serve food, they're more drinking shops. Some just serve token soup and sandwiches, others peanuts and crisps. Those that do serve food often move as much furniture out of the pub on match and concert days to create more space for people to stand up and drink. It's that kind of atmosphere, the last thing on most peoples minds is sitting down for a meal. Granted there may be exceptions to this but in the many years I've been going to large gigs in Dublin and around the country the order of the day is always a frenzied atmosphere surrounding drink. That's Ireland for you, I partake in it myself and it's gonna happen. But in the case of Croke Park it's obviously not policed very well and that's where the nub of this problem lies. As I mentioned previously 80,000 people can walk out of a gig in Ireland with a huge majority pretty drunk and all of them pretty hyper. You walk from the venue and only see a couple of token stewards standing at the exit, after than you can easily walk to the next major junction till you see a Garda up to their eyeballs directing traffic. It's dark by this stage so those 1% who do want to act the bollox have the both the cover of darkness and the cover of a large crowd to do so. When I saw a bunch of lads kick four car wing mirrors in a row off cars parked in the Phoenix Park for a gig there wasn't a guard or a steward anywhere to be seen. And this was only 10 minutes walk from the venue, in fact we were no more than 500m away from Garda HQ where it happened. Sh1t like that happens because of poor security and poor policing. It shouldn't but it does and the 1% ruin it for the 99%.

I take what you're saying about the Volvo Ocean Race- I was at it myself and it was amazingly well organised. But it was a family festival aimed at families and while I saw some people got plastered drunk they were in a minority from what I saw. There's a big difference between a family event like that and 80,000 Irish people on the lash at a large scale gig from early afternoon till late that night. They're two completely different crowds and completely different atmospheres.