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Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**
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Reformed Character wrote: »I'm saying you are lying, making things up, and spouting rubbish claims that you cannot back up. I am also saying that said description covers the overwhelming majority of your posts in this thread.
Lying about what? That residents have said they were put under pressure ? That it was said in a radio interview? That Keegan admitted he was aware of it also? A little specificity would be nice.
Also, is there any particular reason why you keep coming out with these outlandish and overly dramatic statements by the way. When I said that 315,000 Irish people were due to attend over five nights, you say I "fraudulently asserted" it. You say my claims are "delusional", that I defamed Owen Keegan, that I am "lying" but yet can never seem to back these claims up and you would think it would be quite easy for you, considering you suggest lies are all my posts consist of. Course, it really should be me saying you are lying what with all the nonsense you post, such as claiming that we all knew Brian Duff was not a resident of Croke Park or that he worked in the handball alley, when we of course knew nothing of it until that day.As for your admitted literacy problems I feel it would be unkind of me to comment on them.
Oh please, don't let me stop you being unkind. If you have something to say, say it.Perhaps you could post your link to where Owen Keegan used the word "many" in the context of pressuring to sign objections.
He never said many, he said "some". In the radio interview, the term used was a "worrying percentage" and it is myself who called it many. Que: the adjective semantic on just what the difference is between many and some and no doubt and the point will get lost in it all, but sure isn't that the reason for employing semantics 99% of the time anyway
Oh and in the same post I did also say:Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »I guess we will soon know who was behind the forgeries and the true number of submissions that were signed under pressure also but no matter what that number is and who these people are, that used the NIMBY brigade as a tool in their war with the GAA, I don't think any rationale person could think that the volume of complaints (both genuine and fraudulent) or the threats of injunctions in the media, did not inform how the DCC conducted themselves throughout the license application process, and in particular, the statutory meetings with Aiken.If you cannot then you are guilty of embellishing your argument with fiction. If you can I will happily admit that I was wrong and you are right.
Fiction??? LOL.
Here's Keegan speaking about the Garda investigation (which found that 40% of objections maybe dubious) and he says and I quote:"..40% maybe dubious and some of those people are now claiming that they signed letters under pressure at public meetings, they may or may not, I don't know, but that still leaves a very significant number in respect of which the Gardai are not questioning.."0 -
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Happyman42 wrote: »The decision taken was a professional one and arrived at a fair and balanced solution to a complex problem. That one man couldn't live with that is not DCC's problem and never can be.
His ultimatum (before and after the final decision was made)is what threw the 'system' into chaos.
Hard for a fan to swallow but nonetheless true, he would be playing in Croke park tonight had he been able to compromise.
Nonsense. The very fact that a city council was phoning a promotor to refuse to licence concerts which 160,000 people were due to attend, just three weeks later, shows that the system was seriously flawed long before Aiken / Garth Brooks got that phone call.As did the history of the CP/Residents situation, as did the threat of injunctions, as did a whole raft of other considerations.
Not strictly true...some of them where from businesses which would be disrupted from trading during a long period before and after the stetson waving.
I agree and as Timmy Dooley stated, they were all issues which were blindly obvious long before the process even began and so they should have made their position known earlier in the day. It would not have been perjudicial at all.Strawman bs from Keegan. Six calls took place from Croke Park to DCC, from Dec '13 through Feb 2nd and DCC also had many some internal pre-applcaition meetings regarding the concerts taking place and so they should have got their thumb out sooner, instead of acting like all was well and as Peter McKenna says, gave "no hint" that they were not satisfactorily mitigating aspects of the additionality.Apart from the history of the relationship...a relationship he wanted fixed and still needs to be fixed.
An alien from Mars would know and I would expect a City Manager to be fully aware of a very very public long running dispute and to take it into account whether there was an objection registered or not. And he has, rightly, every power to do just that.
Nobody is saying he hasn't got the 'power' or 'right' to do his job or apply the process he is paid to but his job and that of DCC, is far more than just taking applications and deciding whether or not to stamp them. Let him, or whoever else thinks it is, get a job in the Driving License centre if that is the measure of them but event licensing is a much different animal and it requires an ability to be able to adequately communicate with people in a much more hands on and through way.
Clearly it was not sufficiently communicated to all concerned that they were not satisfactorily stepping up to the plate with regards to addressing the concerns of the residents.There is a blatant contradiction when you say in one that and in the very next phrase you say
How do you know that they only uncovered 'a very small percentage if the Gardai have not completed investigations? Bloody stupid tying yourself in knots.
I am not tying myself in knots, you're attaching meaning to one sentence which was not there and which I have already pointed out to you:To me, ANY forged objection which has been taken seriously for any significant length of time, has "slipped through" ..
As for the 'true extent' remark. 11 forgeries is just over 3% of the total number of objections and the Gardai have since claimed that up to 40% of objections may be dubious (from a sample of 200) and so not sure why you would take issue with that being referred to as a "true extent". Granted, there is no final number and dubious could possible not mean forged, but I think it's quite reasonable to assume that the true extent has indeed been uncovered by An Garda. In any case, the system is flawed for many reasons, most alarmingly that someone can object with an email address and then just reply to that email to "verify" it and make the objection "legitimate". You couldn't make it up. One wonders how many emails were received in the Castleknock area regarding planning objection confirmation
Dear God and people try and tell us this system is sufficient.I expect professionals to be able to make a decision in a calm, rational and unbiased way. That is what we pay them for, that is why we expect them to be qualified in these matters. And from what I can see in a very transparent and in depth process that is precisely what happened here.
"Rational" "Calm"?? LOL.
He shat the bed ffs. First of all he tried to do a Dell Boy before a decision had been made to grant any licences, when he offered to put four concerts to Keogan (course him and Keogan are as thick as thieves and so he knew damn well what he would and would not approve). Fine, he now says he regrets that, but it shows that he was hardly level headed at the time. He sent that nonsense letter asking if the Oireachtas committee members who were in the GAA would be asked not to attend the hearings. He regrets that too. How many regrets will come out in due course one wonders. He supported the application for 320,000 people to access the Croke Park area over a 48 period when he had said just 80,000 per day would mean over-intensification. Oh I know, I know.. this was Peter Aiken's idea and Keegan just listened, right? Well, if you believe that, I have some sky hooks I want to sell you. Like the council would put hours of work into this statement, as they clearly did, if it were a non-runner. Keegan acting now like this was not something he would have given time to, is yet another reason why I think the man is lying.The Mulvey report that Croke Park had kicked to touch?:rolleyes:
It was clear to the entire country that was interested (ample evidence on here and elsewhere) that Croke Park where pushing their luck and the envelope from the get go.
Nothing that happened at committee convinces me that they stopped for one minute, (in the face of those concerns) and took on board what they where being told. Right to the last moment the evidence showed that they and Brooks where engaged in a strategy of brinkmanship (the ultimatum when offered 4)
Oh, so agreeing to legacy funds, legal binding agreements for the residents going forward, increases of up to €125,000 per year for local projects and releasing statements the endorse the Mulvey report.. were all nothing?They lost...the bluff was called and we will probably never see it attempted again...not by these parties anyway.
That makes no sense whatsoever.. as Brooks clearly was *not bluffing*.The tragic irony for the fans is (and yet another radio caller this morning indicating that he had 5 tickets for himself and his wife, indicates this) is that had he compromised and played the three licenced concerts then the majority of fans would have gotten to see him.
As I have said, many times now, I thought he should have played the three.This kinda Sindo nonsense should be banned from this forum. The 'Gardai' said NO such thing.
That didn't come from the "Sindo". It came from the hearings.As I have said, what I want to know is who pressurised Keegan to make that call. Never mind your precious gigs...the answer to that question is much much more important in making sure we have a tamper proof system.
I am not a fan of Brooks' music and so the gigs were not "precious" to me.
Why don't you stop beating about the bush and tell us all who you feel it may have been that put "pressure" on Keegan and also, while you're at it, how this great man, who you described above as being "professional", "rational" and "unbiased" succumb to political pressure, as you are inferring here. Seems to me to be a gross "contradiction" of the type of man you painted earlier. Hardly Serpico, is he.0 -
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Again I will ask for a linkWishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »So, tell Owen Keegan. He was the one who said 40% at the hearing.
The equivalent of taking your ball and going off home with it.Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »As for 'many' vs 'some' - go play adjective semantics with someone else.
He never said many - you said he did - you were wrong.0 -
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If it wasn't for the NIMBY brigade, those that used to them them to further their battle with the GAA and newly appointed inept city officials, then 400,000 people would be having a ball over the next few days. 70,000 of them flying in from abroad.
It's such a shame, that our council can think it fine to leave it until three weeks before concerts are to take place, to let a promoter, artist and ticket holders know that they will not be allowing them to go ahead, instead of recognizing that the system was flawed if they could find themselves in such chaotic position in the first place and so fix it at another juncture.
Attempting to blackmail the disappoint performer that same night, by suggesting you won't put the possibility of a 4th night to the planners unless a guarantee and an assurance are given that they will be performed, should they be lucky enough for them to be granted it, would obviously infuriate anyone, let alone an performer, promoter and management team that have been working hard for five months planning the logistics of the five nights.
Sure, as long as Keegan / Keogan don't feel like "complete sell outs" - that's the main thing.
For anyone missing out tonight or over the next five days:
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Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »If it wasn't for the NIMBY brigade, those that used to them them to further their battle with the GAA and newly appointed inept city officials, then 400,000 people would be having a ball over the next few days. 70,000 of them flying in from abroad.
It's such a shame, that our council can think it fine to leave it until three weeks before concerts are to take place, to let a promoter, artist and ticket holders know that they will not be allowing them to go ahead, instead of recognizing that the system was flawed if they could find themselves in such chaotic position in the first place and so fix it at another juncture.
Attempting to blackmail the disappoint performer that same night, by suggesting you won't put the possibility of a 4th night to the planners unless a guarantee and an assurance are given that they will be performed, should they be lucky enough for them to be granted it, would obviously infuriate anyone, let alone an performer, promoter and management team that have been working hard for five months planning the logistics of the five nights.
Sure, as long as Keegan / Keogan don't feel like "complete sell outs" - that's the main thing.
For anyone missing out tonight or over the next five days:
Why is it that only you and the GB fans think this way whereas everyone see can clearly see that it was GB who tried (and failed spectacularly) at the blackmail?0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGY379S5duw
This discussion has been closed.
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