Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

jack presley

RandomName2 wrote: »

Clearly lodged way too late but for the council to look at this discuss it and come to a decision took...

April

May

June

Really?

Should have taken 10 days, not ten weeks.

I don't know the exact timeframe but it's something like the first 5 weeks are for the relevant stakeholders (health & safety, traffic, environmental etc. etc.) to review the application and make their submissions. Then Keegan and his merry men take the next 5 weeks to go through all the submissions and objections received from the public and come up with a decision.

As I've said before, I'm quite happy that they take their time to go through everything in detail and make the decision based on all the experts' input. I much prefer it to having a quick glance through it and saying 'yeah, go ahead' after a day or two.

the consultation period is in the legislation as well so they can't make a decision after 10 days even if they wanted to.

Lord Trollington

AngryHippie wrote: »

I can understand that for Dark side of the moon for example, but if you believe that this greedy ar$ehole is worried about artistic merit, then you are extremely gullible.

You see this is one of the idiotic posts I was talking about earlier.

Firstly you nor me do not know Garth Brooks, but yet he is as you say an ar$ehole.

Secondly if you agreed to work 5 days a week for x amount of money, only to be told you'd be doing 3 days for a lesser amount, you'd probably threaten to pull the plug on it also and go else where. Whilst we're talking about vast sums of money , it's the same principle.

Garth Brooks may not be my or your cup of tea but 400,000 people would beg to differ. Not only that he'll go and sell out stadiums across the globe when he is done in Ireland.

adocholiday

Anyone remember the mahon tribunal no? A result of corrupt planning decisions, back handers and dodgy politics. But sure planning law should easily be ignored when it suits us...

The fact that Enda Kenny is getting involved now is more embarrassing than anything else to come out of this shambolic scenario.

Regardless of whether the DCC decision was right or wrong, the decision should be respected and lessons learned from all of this so it doesn't happen again in future

jack presley

adocholiday wrote: »

Anyone remember the mahon tribunal no? A result of corrupt planning decisions, back handers and dodgy politics. But sure planning law should easily be ignored when it suits us...

The fact that Enda Kenny is getting involved now is more embarrassing than anything else to come out of this shambolic scenario.

Regardless of whether the DCC decision was right or wrong, the decision should be respected and lessons learned from all of this so it doesn't happen again in future

Will you go away with all your sense? No place for that here.

Pwindedd

jack presley wrote: »

I don't know the exact timeframe but it's something like the first 5 weeks are for the relevant stakeholders (health & safety, traffic, environmental etc. etc.) to review the application and make their submissions. Then Keegan and his merry men take the next 5 weeks to go through all the submissions and objections received from the public and come up with a decision.

As I've said before, I'm quite happy that they take their time to go through everything in detail and make the decision based on all the experts' input. I much prefer it to having a quick glance through it and saying 'yeah, go ahead' after a day or two.

the consultation period is in the legislation as well so they can't make a decision after 10 days even if they wanted to.

Agreed 100%. I'm pretty sure there's an awful lot of regulations and concerns to wade through in case such as this. It's been pretty high profile within Ireland since tickets went in sale. I'm sure this was a factor in their decision. It was a compromise for all, but a fair one I think.

Happyman42

adocholiday wrote: »

Anyone remember the mahon tribunal no? A result of corrupt planning decisions, back handers and dodgy politics. But sure planning law should easily be ignored when it suits us...

The fact that Enda Kenny is getting involved now is more embarrassing than anything else to come out of this shambolic scenario.

Regardless of whether the DCC decision was right or wrong, the decision should be respected and lessons learned from all of this so it doesn't happen again in future

It's only a wet week since a city manager was caught taking a suitcase of corrupt money out of the country.

Enda has re-set the precedent of it being ok and normal for politicians directly pressuring planning officials no matter how this pans out now.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

adocholiday wrote: »

Regardless of whether the DCC decision was right or wrong, the decision should be respected..

You mean the decision to not honour the residents agreement with the GAA and allow three extra nights above and beyond what was agreed in 2009..

..is that the decision which you feel you should be respected?

ThisRegard

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Secondly if you agreed to work 5 days a week for x amount of money, only to be told you'd be doing 3 days for a lesser amount, you'd probably threaten to pull the plug on it also

You must be unionised if you would only work a 3 day week for 5 days pay.

Ace2007

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

You mean the decision to not honour the residents agreement with the GAA and allow three extra nights above and beyond what was agreed in 2009..

..is that the decision which you feel you should be respected?

clearly that's not what he meant when he said the DCC decision, never mention the residents or GAA

AngryHippie

stmol32 wrote: »

I think he has show great bravery in his stance and nothing but concern for the people of Ireland.

Utter fanboy nonsense.

He's a ruthless businessman, hawking Honky-Tonk Noise to gullible wannabe cowboy/cowgirls. Its his way or the highway, and The 400,000 suckers that bought tickets aside, the country is better off to be looking at the back of him.

DCC were going to cop a lot of **** either way this decision went, they took the hard line, stuck to their mandate and now this big cowboybaby is sulking.
If he was a decent businessman, he would have negotiated and taken what he was offered. "Ireland for Sale" has at least raised its price and decided that 400,000 faux cowboys in the neighborhood just weren't worth the price. Credit where it is due. First fracking, then windfarms, now cowboys, maybe we can regain our credibility as a proud stubborn nation once again.

Nekarsulm

Pwindedd wrote: »

The blame game is getting everyone nowhere. It's simply a sequence of events that ended with an unfortunate outcome for all involved. I'm not unsympathetic by any means to ticket holders. It's downright unfair. You bought a ticket to an entertainment event and were looking forward to it. If anyone's really losing out it is you. But I would imagine you'll get over it, no ones actually going to come to any real harm over not going, and if it's actually going to harm you financially - one wonders at the wisdom of attending such an event. The rest is just a monumental fûck up, with residents receiving a tad more vitriol than is warranted.

(Omnishambolicfcukuppery - 47 on triple word score, 141 points please)

Actually, the various Croke Park Streets Committee's have got their desired outcome, as has clearly been demonstrated by the tenor of many posts early on in this thread. Far from being an unfortunate outcome, they have triumphed.

adocholiday

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

You mean the decision to not honour the residents agreement with the GAA and allow three extra nights above and beyond what was agreed in 2009..

..is that the decision which you feel you should be respected?

I am against the concerts. Have been from the start. I would be raging if I lived there and that agreement was walked over.

ThisRegard

adocholiday wrote: »

Anyone remember the mahon tribunal no?

Seems like many don't, current politicians included.

Cienciano

AngryHippie wrote: »

Utter fanboy nonsense.

He's a ruthless businessman, hawking Honky-Tonk Noise to gullible wannabe cowboy/cowgirls. Its his way or the highway, and The 400,000 suckers that bought tickets aside, the country is better off to be looking at the back of him.

DCC were going to cop a lot of **** either way this decision went, they took the hard line, stuck to their mandate and now this big cowboybaby is sulking.
If he was a decent businessman, he would have negotiated and taken what he was offered. "Ireland for Sale" has at least raised its price and decided that 400,000 faux cowboys in the neighborhood just weren't worth the price. Credit where it is due. First fracking, then windfarms, now cowboys, maybe we can regain our credibility as a proud stubborn nation once again.

I'm pretty sure that post you replied to was a joke

Pwindedd

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Actually, the various Croke Park Streets Committee's have got their desired outcome, as has clearly been demonstrated by the tenor of many posts early on in this thread. Far from being an unfortunate outcome, they have triumphed.

Not really, I'm sure none of them are jumping up and down with delight at this outcome. It should never have got this far. No ones coming out of this covered in glory.

AngryHippie

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Firstly you nor me do not know Garth Brooks, but yet he is as you say an ar$ehole.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/01/garth-brooks-sues-hospital-over-gift/ = the behavior of an arsehole
=> reasonable to assume that he is an arsehole

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Secondly if you agreed to work 5 days a week for x amount of money, only to be told you'd be doing 3 days for a lesser amount, you'd probably threaten to pull the plug on it also and go else where. Whilst we're talking about vast sums of money , it's the same principle.

If you decide to build 5 houses subject to planning law, and council gives you permission to build three, if it is still profitable to build three, you build the damn things. Anything else is ego. And to even suggest that it is to avoid disappointing some fans = the behavior of an arsehole
=> reasonable to assume that he is an arsehole, or he is getting some seriously shoddy advice.

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Garth Brooks may not be my or your cup of tea but 400,000 people would beg to differ. Not only that he'll go and sell out stadiums across the globe when he is done in Ireland.

I'm sure the number is a lot higher than 400,000 people. It is subjective, and while he has considerably more artistic merit than the 1D tier of prefabricated sewerage that also sells to 400k plus on a regular basis, it deserves and will receive the same level of critical opinion as it.

Nekarsulm

Pwindedd wrote: »

Not really, I'm sure none of them are jumping up and down with delight at this outcome. It should never have got this far. No ones coming out of this covered in glory.

Whatever about the glory, the Street Committee's/ residents committee's who did not agree with the concerts taking place, must be chuffed? If they are not, why not?

RandomName2

AngryHippie wrote: »

Utter fanboy nonsense.

He's a ruthless businessman, hawking Honky-Tonk Noise to gullible wannabe cowboy/cowgirls. Its his way or the highway, and The 400,000 suckers that bought tickets aside, the country is better off to be looking at the back of him.

DCC were going to cop a lot of **** either way this decision went, they took the hard line, stuck to their mandate and now this big cowboybaby is sulking.
If he was a decent businessman, he would have negotiated and taken what he was offered. "Ireland for Sale" has at least raised its price and decided that 400,000 faux cowboys in the neighborhood just weren't worth the price. Credit where it is due. First fracking, then windfarms, now cowboys, maybe we can regain our credibility as a proud stubborn nation once again.

Slag off fans? Check
Slag off Brooks? Check
Slag off pubs/hoteliers? Che- aw man! You should have gone for the hat-trick!

Though I agree with you about the fracking and wind-farms (not seeing the connection, mind).

mbur

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that post you replied to was a joke

AH is a mind reader and knows it was serious. He is not the only one here tonight so watch out.:rolleyes:

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

jack presley wrote: »

As for the bold bit, how many times must it be explained that Aiken only lodged the application in April? DCC couldn't make a decision in February on something they hadn't received. They were only told 3 weeks before the event because that was at the end of the consultation period. The only way you could have gotten a decision in February was if Aiken lodged the application before Christmas. Please let that be the last time this has to be explained!

How many times does it need to be said to you, that Aiken was discussing the concerts with the DCC long before the licences were applied for. He only applied when he had had all the discussions done with and at no stage was he given the impression that any of the licences would be refused. If he had, why would he bother applying for them. He's in the game 50 years for the love of God.

Of course the DCC can't be refused licences before they have been applied for, but they could have made their position known much sooner and so prevented the song and dance of.. applying, waiting 11 weeks, and then refusing to grant two of the licences. The council regularly advise people if they should or should not bother applying for licences. Even if they did not wish to let Aiken know in those pre-application discussions, they still could have let him know the week he applied, especially as 400,000 tickets had been sold. They could have just phoned him and said, look Mr.Aiken, the GAA have already had three concerts at Croke Park this year and so I'm afraid we are not willing to deal with any licence applications to hold further concerts there, as the limit has already been reached. We are very sorry but please feel free to apply for licences to hold concerts there next year if you wish.

Simple.

But no, what they instead did was give no impression to Aiken that they would be refusing licences, allow the applications to be made (four weeks before the ten week deadline) sit on their arses for the following 11 weeks and then phone Aiken on July 2nd (just three weeks before the concerts are due to be held) and break the news that they won't be licensing two of the concerts. Then when told that they would be unwilling to let down 160,000 fans at this late stage who bought tickets, tell them that well, if you can guarantee to play four, and give your word on that, we'll run it by the planners before tomorrows public statement but only if you agree to the guarantee you'lll play them. Do that and we will put it to the planners for ya, what ya say, Garth? Eh. Deal?

Fcuking DCC are bigger cowboys than Brooks ever could be. Would yes wake up.

jack presley

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

How many times does it need to be said to you, that Aiken was discussing the concerts with the DCC long before the licences were applied for..

And DCC have said they stated on numerous occasions that they had issues with the 5 concerts.

Ace2007

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

How many times does it need to be said to you, that Aiken was discussing the concerts with the DCC long before the licences were applied for. He only applied when he had had all the dicussions with them and at no stage was he given the impression that any of the licences would be refused. If he had, why would he bother applying for them.

Of course they can't be refused licences before they have been applied for, but they could have made their position known much earlier and so prevented the song and dance of applying, waiting 11 weeks, and then refusing to grant two of them. The council regularly advise people if they should or should not bother applying for licences. Even if they did not wish to let Aiken know in those pre-application discussions, they still could have let him know the week he applied, especially as 400,000 tickets had been sold. They could have just phoned him and said, look Mr.Aiken, the GAA have already had three concerts at Croke Park this year and so I'm afraid we are not willing to deal with any licence applications to hold further concerts there for the rest of the year, as the limit has already been reached. We are very sorry but please feel free to apply for licences to hold concerts there next year if you wish.

Simple.

But no, what they instead did was give no impression to Aiken that they would be refusing licences, allow the applications to be made (four weeks before the ten week deadline) sit on their arses for the following 11 weeks and then phone Aiken on July 2nd (just three weeks before the concerts are due to be held) and break the news that they won't be licensing two of the concerts. Then when told that they would be unwilling to let down 160,000 fans at this late stage who bought tickets, tell them that well, if you can guarantee to play four, and give your word on that, we'll run it by the planners before tomorrows public statement but only if you agree to the guarantee you'lll play them. Do that and we will put it to the planners for ya, what ya say, Garth? Eh. Deal?

Fcuking DCC are bigger cowboys than Brooks ever could be. Would yes wake up.

So you want the DCC to make a decision before the licence has been applied for and so receive no fee for their services.

Citizen2011

what is so wrong with 5 nights. 80000 people can stream in and out of croke park relatively easily. it was never as if it was going to be like the swedish house band. the profile of the audience was alot more mature. too many residents with too much time on their hands. and a city manager and council that never has to worry about how their wages are paid.

hmmm

Citizen2011 wrote: »

the profile of the audience was alot more mature.

Mature? The place is going to be full of middle aged women in stetsons off their head on drink. It'll be like a hen party with 80,000 attending.

mbur

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

How many times does it need to be said to you, that Aiken was discussing the concerts with the DCC long before the licences were applied for. He only applied when he had had all the discussions done with and at no stage was he given the impression that any of the licences would be refused. If he had, why would he bother applying for them. He's in the game 50 years for the love of God.

Of course the DCC can't be refused licences before they have been applied for, but they could have made their position known much sooner and so prevented the song and dance of.. applying, waiting 11 weeks, and then refusing to grant two of the licences. The council regularly advise people if they should or should not bother applying for licences. Even if they did not wish to let Aiken know in those pre-application discussions, they still could have let him know the week he applied, especially as 400,000 tickets had been sold. They could have just phoned him and said, look Mr.Aiken, the GAA have already had three concerts at Croke Park this year and so I'm afraid we are not willing to deal with any licence applications to hold further concerts there, as the limit has already been reached. We are very sorry but please feel free to apply for licences to hold concerts there next year if you wish.

Simple.

But no, what they instead did was give no impression to Aiken that they would be refusing licences, allow the applications to be made (four weeks before the ten week deadline) sit on their arses for the following 11 weeks and then phone Aiken on July 2nd (just three weeks before the concerts are due to be held) and break the news that they won't be licensing two of the concerts. Then when told that they would be unwilling to let down 160,000 fans at this late stage who bought tickets, tell them that well, if you can guarantee to play four, and give your word on that, we'll run it by the planners before tomorrows public statement but only if you agree to the guarantee you'lll play them. Do that and we will put it to the planners for ya, what ya say, Garth? Eh. Deal?

Fcuking DCC are bigger cowboys than Brooks ever could be. Would yes wake up.

Good post but I think the bold bit is incorrect. THe council can licence as many extra gig as they see fit.

Happyman42

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

= He only applied when he had had all the discussions done with and at no stage was he given the impression that any of the licences would be refused. If he had, why would he bother applying for them. He's in the game 50 years for the love of God.

.

What where the discussions about 4 concerts about then if he was never told there was a problem with 5?

He tried to pressure the DCC, and is still trying to. Wakey wakey.

jack presley

mbur wrote: »

Good post but I think the bold bit is incorrect. THe council can licence as many extra gig as they see fit.

Really? Despite the fact that he/she conveniently forgot to mention DCC's statement with regards to the pre-application discussions. And he/she thinks we should wake up? Take off the blinkers for God's sake.

Nekarsulm

A lot of talk about Promoters having to supply detailed traffic and crowd dispersal plans to DCC. Why would you need a different plan for 80 thousand country music fans than 80 thousand One Direction fans? If you have a template that worked before, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. So much of each concert plan would be identical to every other plan. Nonsense that it would take 5 or 10 weeks to study a submitted plan and decide on the outcome.
"and so receive no fee for their services"
DCC would get their weeks salary paid whether they are examining a concert application, or not.

Dr.MickKiller

What time were the concerts supposed to end at?

Pwindedd

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A lot of talk about Promoters having to supply detailed traffic and crowd dispersal plans to DCC. Why would you need a different plan for 80 thousand country music fans than 80 thousand One Direction fans? If you have a template that worked before, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. So much of each concert plan would be identical to every other plan. Nonsense that it would take 5 or 10 weeks to study a submitted plan and decide on the outcome. Also DCC would get their weeks salary paid whether they are examining a concert application, or not.

I would imagine it was wading through the objections that took most of the time. 300+ submissions I hear.