Garth Brooks concerts cancelled - **READ FIRST POST FOR MOD NOTES**

Lord Trollington

seamus wrote: »

It's a local issue. The money from abroad will land locally, the planning permission is local, the hotels, the residents, the stadium, all local.
This is not a national issue. It does not materially affect anyone outside of the DCC area.

That's complete and utter bull$hit.

oppenheimer1

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I really really wish that this would just end. It's embarrassing at this point that the country has gotten it's knickers in such a twist over a fat has been country and western act. People can argue about the loss of potential revenue etc but essentially globally it makes us look like a country of backward gobsh*tes whose biggest national issue is a fcking series of gigs by a has been.

This should not be a political issue, it wouldn't have happened anywhere else and for the love of Jesus, whatever twats have been trying to get Obama to intervene should be horsewhipped:mad: This is making a mockery of the country. Would people please cop the fcuk on and accept that the cancellation is down to Garth Brooks ego.

I'd say the cancellation of the first three is more down to economics. Apparently a massive show had been planned and wouldn't hit the break even point until the third night.

ankaragucu

Going Forward wrote: »

Our reputation really is in tatters, first Mrs.Browne, then this fiasco.

What reputation?The one for being a nation of backward, Catholic fearing alcoholics?No, we wouldnt want that tarnished would we?

Skylinehead

cournioni wrote: »

Who said it wasn't a local issue? I said it was a national issue because of the money involved, hence TD's getting involved.

So what's the threshold in terms of money for it to become a national issue? Can you point me to the relevant law? It's a DCC issue, it's in Dublin, it's completely local.

kippy

Nah. It's bigger. 7% of our population was due to attend.

This is one of the things that I would question. Okay 400k tickets were sold but how many people does that figure represent? I know a number of people who have tickets for multiple nights. The number of people that were due to attend, in my opinion, represents far less than an actual 7 percent of the population.

seamus

Lord Trollington wrote: »

That's complete and utter bull$hit.

Thanks for your well-considered and decisively argued point.

Lord Trollington

kippy wrote: »

This is one of the things that I would question. Okay 400k tickets were sold but how many people does that figure represent? I know a number of people who have tickets for multiple nights. The number of people that were due to attend, in my opinion, represents far less than an actual 7 percent of the population.

That's irrelevant. 400,000 tickets is 400,000 tickets. If one person is going two nights, well then it effects them twice. Simple as that.

Lord Trollington

seamus wrote: »

Thanks for your well-considered and decisively argued point.

I thought I'd contribute on the same level you did.

seamus

cournioni wrote: »

No, its a local and a national issue. The tax gained from it isn't just local, the money spent on transporting people to concerts, the ticket agents inter alia. aren't necessarily local.

You could make the same argument for any gig of any size in any location.

Should the granting of Whelans's music licence be subject to national debate too?

HereToHere

seamus wrote: »

It's a local issue. The money from abroad will land locally, the planning permission is local, the hotels, the residents, the stadium, all local.
This is not a national issue. It does not materially affect anyone outside of the DCC area.

It would be like a TD getting involved in building a hospital in Kenmare. Oh, wait...

Eh? There'd be people staying in all parts of Dublin, and thats before you mention the 400,000 people from in and outside Ireland who had tickets. A local issue wouldn't affect close to half a million people

humanji

Stop being so petty and argumentative, people.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Happyman42 wrote: »

But you accept that there where discussions about 4 gigs.
Head firmly where the sun don't shine....I give up.

Eh, accepting that there were dicussions about 4 gigs, in no way devalues nor negates any point which I have made.

Oh, and that "discussion" you are referring to, was not really adiscussion at all. It was a nonsense thing for a council official to say at the 11th hour. To phone a promoter and artist, three weeks before concerts are due to take place, and for which 400,000 tickets have been sold, and say they are unwilling grant liceneces for them due to planning restrictions, but we'll grant three all same.. and then ten minutes later, after the offer is refused, attempt some Del Boy-esque deal where if the artist guarantees to do four, the DCC would put it to the planning authorities.

How would that kind of amateur nonsense have sounded down the phone? And even if accepted, how long would it have taken the planning authorities have taken to look at this? I mean, it has just taken them three months to get around to looking at at all, so how does it make sense that this new proposal that would be coming their way, would be dealt with any faster? The DCC wasn't suggesting that this new offer would be fast tracked were they? I mean, the DCC are unable to that, right?

And why was Brook's guarantee (which the DCC have confirmed they asked for) a condition anyway? What difference should that it make? The planning authority should be making decisions independent of what response it is going to met with.

If the offer of three was made, then that meant the planners had looked at everything already and to suggest that they would change their mind, just because Brooks would give his word to do four, is embarrassing. Seems to me that this was all really about Keegan just wanting to get some piece of scalp. One concert was hardly going to make much difference to the residents and shows also that planning regulations are far from what was motivating his actions.

Daith

cournioni wrote: »

No, because they granted a licence for three nights based on an agreement between local residents and the GAA which outlined that only three non-sporting events could be held per year. The One Direction concert supposedly covered these three non-sporting events according to the DCC yet they still granted a license for three nights, and then a fourth night in private.

If you're going to refuse planning permission for an event for a reason, then stick to that reason. It's either lawful, or its not.

See this is incorrect. The planning permission stated that Croke Park could have three events then apply for more. So DCC weren't breaking any agreement by allowing three concerts to go ahead.

So they allowed three but felt five in a row was too much.

kippy

Lord Trollington wrote: »

That's irrelevant. 400,000 tickets is 400,000 tickets. If one person is going two nights, well then it effects them twice. Simple as that.

When you spew a figure like 7 percent of the population, it's relevant.

Lord Trollington

seamus wrote: »

You could make the same argument for any gig of any size in any location.

Should the granting of Whelans's music licence be subject to national debate too?

Considering Whelan'ss holds a maximum of 400, If someone sold it out for 1000 consecutive nights I suppose you could then alright.

seamus

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Considering Whelan'ss holds a maximum of 400, If someone sold it out for 1000 consecutive nights I suppose you could then alright.

So it's about the number of people then? We should just ignore planning laws and make it up as we go along? What's the threshold at which a local council is required to say, "We're not authorised to make planning decisions in our own jurisdiction, we have to refer this one to the Taoiseach"?

How does the volume of tickets sold make it a national issue? It doesn't matter that people wanted to come from Gdansk to see the show, it's not a Polish matter. It's a local planning issue, and nothing more.

To pretend that a series of shows being particularly large suddenly makes it an issue of national importance goes to show why we can never escape this cycle of parish pump politics; because the Joe Duffy brigade still seem to think that everything unpleasant which happens to them is of national importance.

cournioni

Skylinehead wrote: »

So what's the threshold in terms of money for it to become a national issue? Can you point me to the relevant law? It's a DCC issue, it's in Dublin, it's completely local.

The loss/gain of €10m+ in tax revenue would be enough for it to be mentioned in the Dail, is that enough of a threshold for you?

You can look up the laws for planning regulation for yourself, thank you.

It is a DCC issue, it is in Dublin, it is local, but it is also national.

smellmepower

At least the Reeling in the Years lads will have plenty of embarrassing footage of various idiot politicians and our gombeen taoiseach, making a holy show of themselves openly interfering with planning decisions and whoring themselves out for a populist vote over a poxy country and western concert.

pc7

What time is Garth making his world tour press conference today? Maybe will we know the final answer then?

Daith

cournioni wrote: »

The loss/gain of €10m+ in tax revenue would be enough for it to be mentioned in the Dail, is that enough of a threshold for you?

You can look up the laws for planning regulation for yourself, thank you.

It is a DCC issue, it is in Dublin, it is local, but it is also national.

You need to do this also. DCC did not do anything wrong.

It does seem that money decides what laws we follow though.

Lord Trollington

seamus wrote: »

So it's about the number of people then? We should just ignore planning laws and make it up as we go along? What's the threshold at which a local council is required to say, "We're not authorised to make planning decisions in our own jurisdiction, we have to refer this one to the Taoiseach"?

How does the volume of tickets sold make it a national issue? It doesn't matter that people wanted to come from Gdansk to see the show, it's not a Polish matter. It's a local planning issue, and nothing more.

To pretend that a series of shows being particularly large suddenly makes it an issue of national importance goes to show why we can never escape this cycle of parish pump politics; because the Joe Duffy brigade still seem to think that everything unpleasant which happens to them is of national importance.

You seem to be the one setting out the parameters for what is and isn't of national interest, why don't you tell us mere peasants what it is and we'll all fall into line.

The only thing local about it is the planning application.

Daith

Lord Trollington wrote: »

The only thing local about it is the planning application.

The only thing national about it is the money.

rossie1977

kippy wrote: »

You wouldnt need a final to cover that number. GAA fans tend to make a weekend of a match, generally have a more diverse age profile and in my opinion will spend a lot more overall than your GB fan.

how many matches attract full houses to croke park these days at €70 per ticket?

i was up at kerry and dublin last year and there was barely any gaa fans in town after the game. i stayed out at the redcow for the other semi and the morning/early afternoon of the game saw thousands upon thousands of cork fans leaving their cars and getting the luas into town.

This country is in no position to bend laws and turn a blind eye as these are the reasons we are in the mess we are in..........

what laws have been bent? there was an agreement in place to hold 3 concerts per year in croke park so why did DCC offer another 3 after the one direction concerts earlier.

everything in this situation is based on the personal judgement of the city manager and what he believed was appropriate. he could have said 5 but he picked 3 thinking it would appease everyone...

cournioni

seamus wrote: »

You could make the same argument for any gig of any size in any location.

Should the granting of Whelans's music licence be subject to national debate too?

Of course you can. If a license was refused for the same gig in Kildare, Meath or Cork and had the same interest then it would also be a local and national issue.

It would take Whelan's a good while to earn €10m+ in tax revenue in fairness.

dandyo

Any update from the Mexican embassy yet ?

Daith

rossie1977 wrote: »

what laws have been bent? there was an agreement in place to hold 3 concerts per year in croke park so why did DCC offer another 3?

Because the planning permission allowed Croke Park to apply for more concerts after the inital three events......

Hence why they allowed three and didn't automatically decline all five of them....

kippy

rossie1977 wrote: »

how many matches attract full houses to croke park these days at €70 per ticket?

i was up at kerry and dublin last year and there was barely any gaa fans in town after the game. i stayed out at the redcow for the other semi and the morning/early afternoon of the game saw thousands upon thousands of cork fans leaving their cars and getting the luas into town.



what laws have been bent? there was an agreement in place to hold 3 concerts per year in croke park so why did DCC offer another 3 after that the one direction concerts earlier.

everything in this situation is based on the personal judgement of the city manager and what he believed was appropriate. he could have said 5 but he picked 3 thinking it would appease everyone...

He shouldnt have let any go ahead in my opinion. The agreement also allowed the GAA apply for more.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

kippy wrote: »

This is one of the things that I would question. Okay 400k tickets were sold but how many people does that figure represent? I know a number of people who have tickets for multiple nights. The number of people that were due to attend, in my opinion, represents far less than an actual 7 percent of the population.

I accounted for that (and for those that had planned to come from abroad) when arriving at my figure.

7% of the population is only 315,000 people, or thereabouts.

Lord Trollington

Daith wrote: »

The only thing national about it is the money.

Isn't that what everything boils down to at the end of the day. If not it's just a cowboy with a hat singing in a well kept field.

neamhspleachi

Man I'm done with this thread, can't handle anymore popcorn :pac: