Passenger numbers

davidlacey

So good news for IE with passenger numbers up 2.7% for the for 6 months of the year, most striking for me is a steady increase in intercity passenger numbers by 5% and the cork route improving the most with an increase of 7%. Do you share IEs optimism of a continued increase in passenger numbers and what do IE need to do to continue this trend without stating obvious things such as increasing line speeds which will not happen for the foreseeable future

dregin

I reckon the increases could be caused largely by Dublin property prices forcing people to commute from distance.

bikeman1

One must remember that these figures are coming from a low base, but are still welcoming.

There is potential to continue to grow these numbers, but capacity will have to be increased on many services.

Packing everyone into a 4 or 5 car 22 and a 4 car DART will only work so far in growing customers. People like having a seat on Intercity Journeys, that will not be the case if passenger numbers rise much more on many services.

Great to see a rise and long may it continue.

LXFlyer

Good to see numbers rising, but the key question is whether revenues are rising by a similar or greater percentage.

If most of the increase is only paying €9.99 then that's not going to have the same impact!

BonkeyDonker

lxflyer wrote: »

Good to see numbers rising, but the key question is whether revenues are rising by a similar or greater percentage.

If most of the increase is only paying €9.99 then that's not going to have the same impact!

9.99 is better than nothing. Operating costs should not really be increasing as the services would be running either way, so each 9.99 is still an additional income source.

LXFlyer

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

9.99 is better than nothing. Operating costs should not really be increasing as the services would be running either way, so each 9.99 is still an additional income source.

Yes, but what if those numbers include large numbers who were already paying the full fare and were then paying the lower sale fare?


While it's great to see numbers rising, you need the bigger picture:
- Passenger numbers
- Load factor
- Average fare
- Overall revenue

Grandeeod

I took the news with a pinch of salt, considering the evidence and the ongoing dispute regarding the pay cut proposals.

man98

As long as it's quicker by bus and car, IR will have difficulty filling trains. Rosslare - Dublin being an example, you're lucky to get 10 onboard past Wexford to the Rosslares and 40 or 50 past Wexford. I know this as I've been onboard, and I count passenger numbers most days past Wexford. This is a 4 car 22000 Class which has people standing after Bray. The issue is the DART. It cannot be passed out, so your train regularly grinds to a halt. This won't help numbers, so if anything can be done

Jamie2k9

man98 wrote: »

As long as it's quicker by bus and car, IR will have difficulty filling trains. Rosslare - Dublin being an example, you're lucky to get 10 onboard past Wexford to the Rosslares and 40 or 50 past Wexford. I know this as I've been onboard, and I count passenger numbers most days past Wexford. This is a 4 car 22000 Class which has people standing after Bray. The issue is the DART. It cannot be passed out, so your train regularly grinds to a halt. This won't help numbers, so if anything can be done

What sort of numbers are you expecting past Wexford when the last two stations are a beach and a village. Wexford is the real terminus for services, further south has lost its USP as foot passengers are low business now compared to 20 years ago.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

What sort of numbers are you expecting past Wexford when the last two stations are a beach and a village. Wexford is the real terminus for services, further south has lost its USP as foot passengers are low business now compared to 20 years ago.

no, rosslare is the real terminus, i even think the train is the only direct service to dublin from rosslare now or have the busses been brought back or what was the situation around that? i don't use the bus services so a lot could have changed over the years since i did, your right in it not having a USP anymore for many reasons not helped by irish rail but removing it if it was to happen would in my opinion bring undue hardship upon the users from rosslare

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

As long as it's quicker by bus and car, IR will have difficulty filling trains.

true, all though whatever about cars being quicker how a coach can be faster during the day with lots of traffic around beats me, i'd not be surprised at night when there is hardly any or no traffic, observing some of them over the years they travel way to fast for my liking though, yet when i used the BE services years ago they seemed to crawl along unless it was night when they had a clear run due to no traffic and probably being an extra bus which was wexford only.

man98 wrote: »

Rosslare - Dublin being an example, you're lucky to get 10 onboard past Wexford to the Rosslares and 40 or 50 past Wexford. I know this as I've been onboard, and I count passenger numbers most days past Wexford. This is a 4 car 22000 Class which has people standing after Bray.

that can be the case, all though other days the train could be rather full leaving wexford, the traffic isn't static on this line like others, apart from 2900s turning up on some services and it being rather slow, its a decent service when ICRS are on the runs, no way i would go to an alternative now, when the 27/8/900s on all services didn't drive me away nothing will.

man98 wrote: »

The issue is the DART. It cannot be passed out, so your train regularly grinds to a halt. This won't help numbers, so if anything can be done

ideally taking a serious look at giving the long distance services priority over dart with no stops in the dublin area would be considered, so graystones being the last stop for rosslare services with a dart following behind, the stops in the dublin area removed, would be an annoyance probably but so be it, thats what dart is there for, to serve those stops, but it won't happen, and the long distance trains will crawl along behind the dact (dublin area crawl transport)

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

no, rosslare is the real terminus, i even think the train is the only direct service to dublin from rosslare now or have the busses been brought back or what was the situation around that? i don't use the bus services so a lot could have changed over the years since i did, your right in it not having a USP anymore for many reasons not helped by irish rail but removing it if it was to happen would in my opinion bring undue hardship upon the users from rosslare

There would be no savings by closing the section of line apart form fuel which isn't much.

man98

As was pointed out to me, storing trains overnight in Wexford would be disastorous as it's simple to use other entrances into the station for vandals, unlike Rosslare Harbour. The only time Wexford trains are packed is on a Sunday afternoon.

Jamie2k9

man98 wrote: »

As was pointed out to me, storing trains overnight in Wexford would be disastorous as it's simple to use other entrances into the station for vandals, unlike Rosslare Harbour. The only time Wexford trains are packed is on a Sunday afternoon.

While it may be an issue, something like this wouldn't be considered when closing a section of line. There is no real benefit to IE to close services south of Wexford.

end of the road

man98 wrote: »

The only time Wexford trains are packed is on a Sunday afternoon.

well thats genuinely news to me, i'm not saying i don't believe you as i haven't been on the line for a little while but if thats the case its sad indeed, i remember mostly packed to the guills trains on this line and then the suburban railcars came along which probably did drive a lot of people away never to return (who could blame them) i suppose its a case of once someone receives a bad service they won't come back, IE should be using opportunities to promote the fact they have new intercity style trains on the line now (of course stupidly they don't operate on all services which isn't going to help that needs to be sorted no excuses) . sometimes i do fear for this lines future, being on the wrong side of the tracks of course means we won't get a consistant product like other long distance services

dowlingm

If only Wexford Town Council could do something to protect the line on the quays such that IE would feel able to chop a few minutes per service out of the Wexford/Rosslare section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t0Q1PkVbI8

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

If only Wexford Town Council could do something to protect the line on the quays such that IE would feel able to chop a few minutes per service out of the Wexford/Rosslare section.

as that is something that makes sense, wexford town council isn't going to do it

man98

I happen to know plenty of people on the council... I would assume it's too difficult too guard the tracks as they are too open. Maybe if the limit was increased to 10mph it would be safe.

Jamie2k9

It really wouldn't make a huge difference to justify the cost. Probably savings 3-4 mins max and for the level of usage the financials don't stack up. It wouldn't have any positive effect on numbers as they are simply not their to being with.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It really wouldn't make a huge difference to justify the cost. Probably savings 3-4 mins max and for the level of usage the financials don't stack up. It wouldn't have any positive effect on numbers as they are simply not their to being with.

in todays compensation culture the tracks shouldn't be wide open, whether the numbers are or aren't there to begin with or whether the numbers stack up or not doesn't matter, i'm sure some solution can be found to guard the tracks so the speed limit can be increased with little cost, after all thats why we pay councilors, to find solutions, and irish rail management get payed more then enough to come up with solutions for things such as this

dowlingm

Does IE own the land the tramway is on, technically? It might be legally tricky to secure it otherwise, plus there is right of way at the manual LC.

Wexford County Council should consider it in their interest to have efficient service to Rosslare but also they now control Wexford Town since the town council was abolished this year. An enclosed track would be safer one would think though obviously there will be idiots who decline to use authorized crossing points.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Does IE own the land the tramway is on, technically? It might be legally tricky to secure it otherwise, plus there is right of way at the manual LC.

Wexford County Council should consider it in their interest to have efficient service to Rosslare but also they now control Wexford Town since the town council was abolished this year. An enclosed track would be safer one would think though obviously there will be idiots who decline to use authorized crossing points.

a good old electric fence along the track should sort that, the train triggers something in the track that activates it when leaving wexford station toards rosslare and when about to come into wexford from rosslare , its not going to happen though, oh well

Jamie2k9

end of the road wrote: »

in todays compensation culture the tracks shouldn't be wide open, whether the numbers are or aren't there to begin with or whether the numbers stack up or not doesn't matter, i'm sure some solution can be found to guard the tracks so the speed limit can be increased with little cost, after all thats why we pay councilors, to find solutions, and irish rail management get payed more then enough to come up with solutions for things such as this

There are lots of solutions, but they costs lots which neither party have.

dowlingm

There's not much for free in life. IE would get back some fuel and crew time while Wexford would have diesel exhaust wafting along the waterfront for a shorter time.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There are lots of solutions, but they costs lots which neither party have.

doubt it, i'm sure a solution can be found that doesn't cost lots, just no will to find it, hence my suggestion of an electric fence that activates when the train comes toards the wexford tramway each way.

Jamie2k9

dowlingm wrote: »

There's not much for free in life. IE would get back some fuel and crew time while Wexford would have diesel exhaust wafting along the waterfront for a shorter time.

Its highly likely that IE crew get paid per service or per hour and for a saving of 5 minutes it would not effect pay. As for fuel you are really clutching at straws here, there is little fuel consumption when a train is traveling at 25 mp/h with all engines just ticking over.

dowlingm

5 mph on the tramway. There is a sign visible from Street View.

I can see the Wexford southern exit getting buffer stops like Tralee's exit toward Fenit if something isn't done to increase loads to Rosslare. Then 46min will be chopped out of the schedule.

Copyerselveson

dowlingm wrote: »

5 mph on the tramway. There is a sign visible from Street View.

I can see the Wexford southern exit getting buffer stops like Tralee's exit toward Fenit if something isn't done to increase loads to Rosslare. Then 46min will be chopped out of the schedule.

To be more constructive I would suggest that reopening the Rosslare to Waterford line for freight would really help, especially if beet traffic were up and running.

end of the road

Copyerselveson wrote: »

To be more constructive I would suggest that reopening the Rosslare to Waterford line for freight would really help, especially if beet traffic were up and running.

and maybe re-introduce a passenger service one day, while it had low usership it seemed to be useful, apparently the bus replacement is rather useless but thats just what i've heard so i can't confirm, sort out the junction for bi-directional running to the waterford line from both rosslare and wexford, sadly its not going to happen and if IE did decide to close wexford rosslare i can't see the NTA/DTA/whatever they call themselves these days saying no, but i suppose stranger things have happened.

dowlingm

Copyerselveson wrote: »

To be more constructive I would suggest that reopening the Rosslare to Waterford line for freight would really help, especially if beet traffic were up and running.

Need a rail connected beet factory first. Also, weren't the beet wagons cut up?

sdanseo

end of the road wrote: »

in todays compensation culture the tracks shouldn't be wide open, whether the numbers are or aren't there to begin with or whether the numbers stack up or not doesn't matter, i'm sure some solution can be found to guard the tracks so the speed limit can be increased with little cost, after all thats why we pay councilors, to find solutions, and irish rail management get payed more then enough to come up with solutions for things such as this

Run the train at the same speed you would a tram. Then let darwinism sort out those too stupid to take basic care when crossing a bloody railway.

corktina

dowlingm wrote: »

5 mph on the tramway. There is a sign visible from Street View.

I can see the Wexford southern exit getting buffer stops like Tralee's exit toward Fenit if something isn't done to increase loads to Rosslare. Then 46min will be chopped out of the schedule.

Given that you have to ride a bus out to the ship anyway, perhaps the solution is a bus transfer at Wexford, running direct to the ship via customs and immigration.

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

Given that you have to ride a bus out to the ship anyway, perhaps the solution is a bus transfer at Wexford, running direct to the ship via customs and immigration.

Sure why not go all the way and run a bus from Greystones then? God lads but some of yiz have a terrible hard on for salami slicing the railway.

corktina

Obviously because that would entail a change for passengers who don't have a change at present .

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

Given that you have to ride a bus out to the ship anyway, perhaps the solution is a bus transfer at Wexford, running direct to the ship via customs and immigration.

sorry but no, the train must run all the way

corktina

only a suggestion to address the 46 mins situation and free up paths and stock.

Copyerselveson

corktina wrote: »

only a suggestion to address the 46 mins situation and free up paths and stock.

Here's a positive and realistic suggestion - fence off the Wexford Quayside line, time trains with all the ferries and reinstate the link to Waterford and run those trains straight to Galway via the WRC.

corktina

How is that realistic? I think the townsfolk might object at loss of amenity

Losty Dublin

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Here's a positive and realistic suggestion - fence off the Wexford Quayside line, time trains with all the ferries and reinstate the link to Waterford and run those trains straight to Galway via the WRC.

An evening departure ex Rosslare has been deferred before by 30 minutes for the summer. However, how much good it will do is another story; most of the traffic off the boat come via car, truck and coach and most of the foot passenger opt to travel via Bus Eireann.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

only a suggestion to address the 46 mins situation and free up paths and stock.

i don't think it would free up paths and stock though, horid 29s will still be down here for the forseeable, i think fencing off the line is the best suggestion, the towns folk can grumble but if people used common sense and didn't play silly buggers with the railway we wouldn't be having this discussion, but sadly they don't and we are, oh well

loyatemu

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Here's a positive and realistic suggestion - fence off the Wexford Quayside line, time trains with all the ferries and reinstate the link to Waterford and run those trains straight to Galway via the WRC.

Who in their right mind would want to travel by train from Rosslare to Galway?

Banjoxed

loyatemu wrote: »

Who in their right mind would want to travel by bus from Rosslare to Galway?

FYP.

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

Who in their right mind would want to travel by train from Rosslare to Galway?

not many i should imagine, but it might be a way of saving stock if the 2 lines were operated as 1 service where possible, rosslare limerick, limerick galway

Copyerselveson

All part of the marketing of Ireland - think of it as a backpacker's special.

As Banjoxed says who in their right mind would travel from Rosslare to Galway by bus?

end of the road

Copyerselveson wrote: »

All part of the marketing of Ireland - think of it as a backpacker's special.

As Banjoxed says who in their right mind would travel from Rosslare to Galway by bus?

yes, sounds like hell, mind you 4 years ago i traveled cork to waterford by bus, it took me a couple of years to get over it, worst journey i ever did, sadly rosslare waterford had been stolen some weeks before i did the trip, otherwise by train end of the road would have come home

BeardySi

Copyerselveson wrote: »

As Banjoxed says who in their right mind would travel from Rosslare to Galway by bus?

I've done it, not pleasant (and back in 1998 too, before the good roads!!!).... Would have killed to be able to do it by train!

man98

46 minutes isn't too useful anyway. People in South Wexford also deserve an efficient public transport system, they pay taxes. If I had a bit of money to buy/ lease a train, I'd start an Enniscorthy - Waterford service, as IÉ give the the best replacement rail service €250k annually. And last time I checked, a service lasting 1:20 is way better than a bus journey 1:55 long, excluding delays at rush hours in New Ross.

Jamie2k9

Fencing off the line would only deliver a minimal improvement to speeds. As for the 46 minute saving, it would have no impact on stock rosters.

If I had a bit of money to buy/ lease a train, I'd start an Enniscorthy - Waterford service, as IÉ give the the best replacement rail service €250k annually. And last time I checked, a service lasting 1:20 is way better than a bus journey 1:55 long, excluding delays at rush hours in New Ross.

IE had such a service already.....

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Fencing off the line would only deliver a minimal improvement to speeds.

it might though, if its an electric fence

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

As for the 46 minute saving, it would have no impact on stock rosters.

agree

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IE had such a service already.....

yes, and the so called "national" transport authority allowed IE to take it from the people

man98

Irish Rail's "Service" was laughable. In the mornings 3 days a week a train from Enniscorthy ran down to connect with it, with no return connections in the evening. Secondly (and this is relevant to passenger numbers) I rarely saw ticket checkers, which meant anyone who didn't board in Waterford or Rosslare Strand couldn't pay for their tickets quite often. This is probably why numbers fluctuated. I saw 70 onboard in Campile (first station from Waterford) and 65 at Ballycullane, and 50 at Wellingtonbridge. This is quite a bit higher than 25, as Irish Rail said. This makes me wonder if other lightly travelled routes have the same situation, such as Manulla, Waterford - Limerick Junction and, to a lesser extent, Ballybrophy - Limerick.

Banjoxed

man98 wrote: »

Irish Rail's "Service" was laughable. In the mornings 3 days a week a train from Enniscorthy ran down to connect with it, with no return connections in the evening. Secondly (and this is relevant to passenger numbers) I rarely saw ticket checkers, which meant anyone who didn't board in Waterford or Rosslare Strand couldn't pay for their tickets quite often. This is probably why numbers fluctuated. I saw 70 onboard in Campile (first station from Waterford) and 65 at Ballycullane, and 50 at Wellingtonbridge. This is quite a bit higher than 25, as Irish Rail said. This makes me wonder if other lightly travelled routes have the same situation, such as Manulla, Waterford - Limerick Junction and, to a lesser extent, Ballybrophy - Limerick.

Indeed. An inconvenient truth all right.