Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

Nodin

galwayrush wrote: »

Hamas by (..........)Shields for Hamas Leaders'

Nonsense. They were at this before Hamas was founded.

And define what you mean by "peace".

Seanaway wrote:

Accept that Israel (..........)difference?

As above.

And agree to what, exactly?

Nodin

comongethappy wrote: »

On a long enough timeline, the Israelis can feel aggrieved, what with its neighbours repeated attempts to declare war on & destroy Israel.

Not to condone the current status-quo, but in this conflict, all sides can feel aggrieved.

It looks odd to support Palestinian violence & condone Israels, because Israel is simply better & more effective at dishing it out.

I can appreciate principled resistance, but both sides can feel legitimately righteous in that regard.

You're referring to the past. Israel is colonising Palestinian land now. That's an aggressive expansionist act.

seanaway

Nodin wrote: »

You're referring to the past. Israel is colonising Palestinian land now. That's an aggressive expansionist act.

God some of these comments are like reading a loopy left rag.

Stop with the brainwashing and use your noggins.

Any of you been to Israel?

Nodin

seanaway wrote: »

God some of these comments are like reading a loopy left rag.

Stop with the brainwashing and use your noggins.

Any of you been to Israel?

I'm sorry but that doesn't seem to relate to any points raised thus far. You might be a bit clearer. You might also be as good as to answer the question posed to you above.

wes

seanaway wrote: »

God some of these comments are like reading a loopy left rag.

So your defacto denying the existence of Israeli settlements, whose existence is a well established fact, that you can confirm by a quick search on Bing, Google or Yahoo.

Personally, I think such defacto denial is like reading a loopy right wing rag. I do believe you would have a great career at the Daily Mail, you should make up a story involving George Cloony and send it in.

seanaway wrote: »

Stop with the brainwashing and use your noggins.

Trying to skirt around the existence of the settlements (a well established fact) is the closest thing to an attempt at "brainwashing" on this thread, and I am of course engaging hyperbole there.

seanaway wrote: »

Any of you been to Israel?

Have you been to the West Bank? Both question are entirely irrelevant.

Gringo180

wes wrote: »

So your defacto denying the existence of Israeli settlements, whose existence is a well established fact, that you can confirm by a quick search on Bing, Google or Yahoo.

Personally, I think such defacto denial is like reading a loopy right wing rag. I do believe you would have a great career at the Daily Mail, you should make up a story involving George Cloony and send it in.



Trying to skirt around the existence of the settlements (a well established fact) is the closest thing to an attempt at "brainwashing" on this thread, and I am of course engaging hyperbole there.



Have you been to the West Bank? Both question are entirely irrelevant.

Dont expect a reply, they don't like to hear or discuss facts:rolleyes:

FTA69

seanaway wrote: »

God some of these comments are like reading a loopy left rag.

Stop with the brainwashing and use your noggins.

Any of you been to Israel?

Yep I've been all over the West Bank, have you? I also saw with my own eyes the construction of dozens of illegal settlements. Have you seen them?

Elmer Blooker

comongethappy wrote: »

Though when a truck with a rack of katyushas on the back parks on a street to unleash its salvo, it can't be surprising that the IDF will hit the location.

You seem to be an expert on Hamas military operations, would you like to share your sources?
A justification for the killing of innocent civilians by the IDF if ever I heard one.

BlaasForRafa

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You seem to be an expert on Hamas military operations, would you like to share your sources?
A justification for the killing of innocent civilians by the IDF if ever I heard one.

There was a report on the BBC news last night with what the Libyan's would have called a "technical", a toyota pick-up truck with a multiple rocket launcher on the back and it was in plain sight on a street surrounded by houses.

Hamas LOVES civilian casualties, because it can hype up impressionable arab youth into hating Israel and fool gullible western sympathisers into opposing Israel's right to defend itself.

The IDF warns civilians to clear out of areas before making attacks, it isn't the IDF's fault if idiots decide to suicide themselves by being human shields for Hamas http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2014/07/gaza_civilian_casualties_while_hamas_targets_innocent_people_israel_tries.html

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are the ones making indiscriminate attacks on civilians, but you'll hear the usual suspects on here say stuff like "oh they've only got unsophisticated rockets not like Israel" conveniently ignoring the fact that the 40lb of explosives on a grad rocket is plenty good a killing if it hits the right target, not to mention the more sophisticated missles that Hamas seems to have now.

nocoverart

OK, this is like 90% off topic but does anybody on here know the approximate population of Golan Heights? can't get a decent answer on my quick rummage through the tinternet.

comongethappy

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You seem to be an expert on Hamas military operations, would you like to share your sources?
A justification for the killing of innocent civilians by the IDF if ever I heard one.

I'm an Israeli spy.

Well..... that, or I seen a Hamas video used on the BBC news yesterday showing that very thing (as the previous poster said).

Top notch as always Elmer.

FTA69

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

There was a report on the BBC news last night with what the Libyan's would have called a "technical", a toyota pick-up truck with a multiple rocket launcher on the back and it was in plain sight on a street surrounded by houses.

Considering Gaza is the most densely populated place in the world that's unsurprising.

Hamas LOVES civilian casualties, because it can hype up impressionable arab youth into hating Israel and fool gullible western sympathisers into opposing Israel's right to defend itself.

Israel is not "defending itself". Israel is the aggressor in the region. It maintains a brutal occupation in the West Bank and is engaging in systematic theft and robbery of Palestinian land in order to build illegal settlements. To facilitate this, they have encircled the entire area with a barrier that has annexed over 10% of Palestinian territory and also crippled the local economy. Furthermore, they have instituted a system of apartheid in the parts of the West Bank they have under their control as well as East Jerusalem where Palestinians are slowly but surely being pushed out as a result of punitive measures taken against them. Gaza remains under total siege and is almost an open air prison at this stage.

And the Palestinians are the aggressors? Do I need to show you the statistic comparing the respective death tolls? It's hilarious you're calling people "gullible" because they don't agree with systematic land-grabs and forcible expulsions backed up by a nuclear-equipped military.

The IDF warns civilians to clear out of areas before making attacks, it isn't the IDF's fault if idiots decide to suicide themselves by being human shields for Hamas http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2014/07/gaza_civilian_casualties_while_hamas_targets_innocent_people_israel_tries.html

"Idiots" like the seven children killed two days ago? So poor and powerless people who get blown to pieces by Apaches and Jericho rockets are simply idiots and it's their own fault? And you're calling people gullible? Laughable stuff. And when Israel decide to drop a missile on a packed apartment block in the hope of killing a Hamas member are the casualties there too idiots as well?

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are the ones making indiscriminate attacks on civilians, but you'll hear the usual suspects on here say stuff like "oh they've only got unsophisticated rockets not like Israel" conveniently ignoring the fact that the 40lb of explosives on a grad rocket is plenty good a killing if it hits the right target, not to mention the more sophisticated missles that Hamas seems to have now.

Yeah, so sophisticated there have been no Israelis killed by them at all. As I said, I'm not defending the rocket attacks but it's clear they have little other response to Israel's siege of Gaza and it's occupation of the West Bank.

irishmays

The problem is poor old israel have an even bigger seige mentality than gaza I'm afraid. They surround gaza but they themselves are penned in. Years of paranoia built up from defending borders has made them think far different to you or me. All these strikes are not just about taking out hamas but showing neighbours that they're prepared to do anything to protect themselves. Israels biggest threat is if it's neighbours actually come together. It's a show of force, but the catch is you have young palistines and pro palistines growing more and more hatred toward them. Surely it will end one way or another

pO1Neil

comongethappy wrote: »

No one condones that.

Though when a truck with a rack of katyushas on the back parks on a street to unleash its salvo, it can't be surprising that the IDF will hit the location.

Perhaps collateral damage might be less if Hamas would refrain from hiding in civilian streets.

Well the IRA did same & over 1500 Irish kids weren't killed in the space of 20 years by British security forces. The IRA's bombs were a lot more devastating to the UK than Hamas's are to Israel.

I take offense to "collateral damage" part. Where the people killed on Bloody Sunday just that or the two little boys killed at Warrington in 93 or the 3 little babies & a full unborn in the Dublin Bombings just "collateral damage"to you? It should be called for what it is - murder of civilians. if they are just "collateral damage" to you fine I find that term very,very cold & dehumanizing.

wes

SeanW wrote: »

With people who's stated objective is to drive the Jews into the sea?

Zionists already literally drove Palestinians into the sea, after the ethnic cleansing in 1948, quite a few Palestinians fled via the sea to Gaza, some of them even lived in what is now called Sderot......

So, again how exactly are Zionist any better, seeing as they have already literally done what some in Hamas want to do?

comongethappy

pO1Neil wrote: »

I take offense

Feeling offended is your choice I suppose.
Though you can see from the tone of my posts, I'm not seeking to offend.

And if your that precious to find the words "collateral damage" offensive, you may be in the wrong forum.

Also, using such emotive language in favour of one side over another, as you seek to do doesn't help debate.

Gringo180

comongethappy wrote: »

doesn't help debate.

There is no debate, the facts are the Israeli's are in the wrong and have been since they were promised another peoples land by Balfour, there state was founded on Jewish and Zionist fundamentalists who are every bit and in my opinion worse than Hamas.

Conas

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

comongethappy

Gringo180 wrote: »

There is no debate, the facts are the Israeli's are in the wrong

That's that then.

Can a mod close the thread?

irishmays

Conas wrote: »

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

But where will israel and USA test new weaponry. This situation is a perfect small scale war for them to test their army's bottle.

irishmays

And hamas for that matter too

Conas

irishmays wrote: »

But where will israel and USA test new weaponry. This situation is a perfect small scale war for them to test their army's bottle.

USA and Israel, can only pick on people that are smaller than them that's why. Or as the USA done in Japan, just use nuclear weapons. Will Obama sanction Israel for this? Like he did to Russia? No he won't, because he's too much of a whimp. America gives Israel $3 billion in aid, and this is all they get. Well 10s of millions live in poverty, and vets die from lack of healthcare. Who will pay for all this damage done to Gaza? America will. It'll probaly cost them billions of dollars more.

irishmays

Conas wrote: »

USA and Israel, can only pick on people that are smaller than them that's why. Or as the USA done in Japan, just use nuclear weapons. Will Obama sanction Israel for this? Like he did to Russia? No he won't, because he's too much of a whimp. America gives Israel $3 billion in aid, and this is all they get. Well 10s of millions live in poverty, and vets die from lack of healthcare. Who will pay for all this damage done to Gaza? America will. It'll probaly cost them billions of dollars more.

Sanction israel?! For what sure America supports most of their nonsense it doesn't support Russia that's why they were sanctioned. Come on now

paulmcshane

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

comongethappy

paulmcshane wrote: »

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

There is always hope.

They have made some attempts to achieve nationhood, but I think they are prevented fro going the whole hog.

I do think the time has long passed for the Intl community to assist though.

Ideally tens of thousands of blue UN helmets would be buffering the 1967 west bank border preventing Israeli encroachment.... Alas that was probably never on the cards.

Conas

paulmcshane wrote: »

The situation for the Palestinians is hopeless, they lose either way. The Israeli government are free to do what they want, no western country is going to step in and stop these blatant acts of barbarism.

Well then Obama and the US goverment, can't keep mouthing off about being about freedom and democracy then. Two countries that are always involved in a war or conflict every decade since WW2. It's terrorism for the brown coloured Arab muslims and not terrorism for others. They have made a total mockery of the US the Israeli's have. The Americans won't step in, because the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

You have to hand it to them though, they have the yanks by the balls, and the whole world can see it.

paulmcshane

Conas wrote: »

Well then Obama and the US goverment, can't keep mouthing off about being about freedom and democracy then. Two countries that are always involved in a war or conflict every decade since WW2. It's terrorism for the brown coloured Arab muslims and not terrorism for others. They have made a total mockery of the US the Israeli's have. The Americans won't step in, because the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

You have to hand it to them though, they have the yanks by the balls, and the whole world can see it.

Hit the nail on the head.

BlaasForRafa

Conas wrote: »

Yet again the same crap is happening all over again.

Israel firing on Gaza's women and children with the most high-tech military equipment available (all paid for by the American taxpayer) and Gaza fires back with homemade rockets made in a basement, that can do very little damage. That sounds like a fair fight to me.

Everyone knows Israel wants to annex the West Bank, Gaza, and take it all for themselves.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.

As for everything being paid for by the US, last I looked Israel's defence spending was about $18 billion per year, about $3 billion of which is provided by the US. So, the Israeli taxpayers have to spend $15 billion of their hard earned money per year defending their country. Israel, by necessity, has had to become the world leaders in anti-missile technology, do you seriously think that Israel would rather spend that money on Iron Dome or on better health services?

And I see you're another one that goes on about "home made rockets". The Qassam rockets are made in Hamas facilities but Grad rockets are not, they are supplied by Hamas's buddies in Iran, who have also supplied longer range missiles to them.

comongethappy

Conas wrote: »

the Jews are intellectually too smart for the Americans.

Top Gun analysis right here.

Next up: how racial stereotyping will solve the North Korean issue.

Gringo180

IMO if it was down to Obama he would be definitely sanctioning the Israeli's and calling for them to go back to pre 67 borders. The tail wags the dog in America, there is too many Zionists and Israeli sympathisers that have congress bought off, the likes of AIPAC and other lobbies.

Why would America continually support them otherwise, they have no interests in the region, it only causes them more harm than good. Its madness really that they continue to back them.

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.
.

Israel doesn't annex the West Bank outright because that would take far too many Palestinians, hence the slow drip methodology employed.

irishmays

Gringo180 wrote: »

IMO if it was down to Obama he would be definitely sanctioning the Israeli's and calling for them to go back to pre 67 borders. The tail wags the dog in America, there is too many Zionists and Israeli sympathisers that have congress bought off, the likes of AIPAC and other lobbies.

Why would America continually support them otherwise, they have no interests in the region, it only causes them more harm thanI good. Its madness really that they continue to back them.

No interests? It's nice to have friends close to really scary enemys

mrsweebri

I rather like the idea of external peace keepers on the internationally recognised borders. They could be there ostensibly to prevent suicide bombers/rocket attacks on Israel and therefore remove the reason that most Israelis support the occupation/settlement expansion. Great idea.

Gringo180

irishmays wrote: »

No interests? It's nice to have friends close to really scary enemys

It wouldnt effect mainland America if Israel crashed and burned tomorrow, they should look after there own people instead of worrying about a country thousands of miles away that causes them more harm than good.

irishmays

Gringo180 wrote: »

It wouldnt effect mainland America if Israel crashed and burned tomorrow, they should look after there own people instead of worrying about a country thousands of miles away that causes them more harm than good.

Well you might be right but America is not well liked around them areas and strategically israel is a good base to keep an eye on things. That's my take. America really couldn't give a fiddlers as to what hamas and Israel do to each other.

Gringo180

irishmays wrote: »

Well you might be right but America is not well liked around them areas and strategically israel is a good base to keep an eye on things. That's my take. America really couldn't give a fiddlers as to what hamas and Israel do to each other.

The only reason why there not liked in the region is because of there foreign policy, nothing more nothing less.

I am not saying cut all ties with the Israeli's, but just stop there unwavering support of there atrocities committed against the Palestinians.

irishmays

Gringo180 wrote: »

The only reason why there not liked in the region is because of there foreign policy, nothing more nothing less.

I am not saying cut all ties with the Israeli's, but just stop there unwavering support of there atrocities committed against the Palestinians.

Not so much support as couldn care less as I said. Their America's allie like it or not

edanto

Quoting @tejucole from Twitter:

Quite early in a conversation, you can tell if someone considers Palestinian life literally equal to Israeli life. The rest flows from that.

Conas

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

If Israel wanted Gaza it wouldn't have pulled out in 2005. If Israel wanted all of the West Bank it could have easily done so in 1967-68, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.

As for everything being paid for by the US, last I looked Israel's defence spending was about $18 billion per year, about $3 billion of which is provided by the US. So, the Israeli taxpayers have to spend $15 billion of their hard earned money per year defending their country. Israel, by necessity, has had to become the world leaders in anti-missile technology, do you seriously think that Israel would rather spend that money on Iron Dome or on better health services?

And I see you're another one that goes on about "home made rockets". The Qassam rockets are made in Hamas facilities but Grad rockets are not, they are supplied by Hamas's buddies in Iran, who have also supplied longer range missiles to them.

Well if they want to be a war all the time, that's there business. They should pay every last cent of the bill themselves. Why should hard working Americans give them billions of dollars in aid to kill the Arabs each year? and get nothing out of it. No country has had more resolutions passed against it at the UN than Israel, not to mention having nuclear weapons, and refusing to sign the NPT.

They're doing everything they can to start a war with Iran over the last few years. Why don't they grow a pair of balls and go and do the fighting themselves. All their supporters too can man up, and go and put their boots on the ground.

pO1Neil

comongethappy wrote: »

Feeling offended is your choice I suppose.
Though you can see from the tone of my posts, I'm not seeking to offend.

And if your that precious to find the words "collateral damage" offensive, you may be in the wrong forum.

Also, using such emotive language in favour of one side over another, as you seek to do doesn't help debate.

Would you use the same term for Irish or English kids killed during the north conflict?

If I said the people killed at Enniskillen or Bloody Sunday or the two boys at Warringpoint were collateral damage would you not be offended =?

tayto lover

I wonder if those little kids who were killed today were making bombs.
Bombing a cafe is very low and provocative but then the Israelis know exactly what they are doing.

comongethappy

pO1Neil wrote: »

If I said the people killed at Enniskillen or Bloody Sunday or the two boys at Warringpoint were collateral damage would you not be offended =?

Not really, no.

They are just words.

Having a rudimentary grasp of context & tone, I can tell when someone is meaning offence.

Iwasfrozen

Conas wrote: »

Well if they want to be a war all the time, that's there business. They should pay every last cent of the bill themselves. Why should hard working Americans give them billions of dollars in aid to kill the Arabs each year? and get nothing out of it. No country has had more resolutions passed against it at the UN than Israel, not to mention having nuclear weapons, and refusing to sign the NPT.

They're doing everything they can to start a war with Iran over the last few years. Why don't they grow a pair of balls and go and do the fighting themselves. All their supporters too can man up, and go and put their boots on the ground.

I think the only long term solution to this is a transfer of Palestinians out of Israel into other Arab countries. A two state solution isn't viable (well the Palestinian state isn't) and the Israelis will never give up their dominance for a one state solution to work.

Conas

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I think the only long term solution to this is a transfer of Palestinians out of Israel into other Arab countries. A two state solution isn't viable (well the Palestinian state isn't) and the Israelis will never give up their dominance for a one state solution to work.

Yes the Jews would drive them into Jordon if they could, and will try to. But it won't matter a dime if they did that, as they'll only go to war with Jordon then, and try and take that country.

JFK wrote in 1939 when they were emigrating there from Germany, that the Jews wanted total domination, and I agree with him totally. They want it all baby!!!

comongethappy

Conas wrote: »

Yes the Jews would drive them into Jordon if they could, and will try to. But it won't matter a dime if they did that, as they'll only go to war with Jordon then, and try and take that country.

JFK wrote in 1939 when they were emigrating there from Germany, that the Jews wanted total domination, and I agree with him totally. They want it all baby!!!

You really dislike them Jews don't you!

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I think the only long term solution to this is a transfer of Palestinians out of Israel into other Arab countries. A two state solution isn't viable (well the Palestinian state isn't) and the Israelis will never give up their dominance for a one state solution to work.

Aka "Ethnic cleansing".

Why is the solution removing Palestinian Arabs from Israel?

Conas

comongethappy wrote: »

You really dislike them Jews don't you!

Well if they were doing to a county in Ireland, what they are doing to Gaza you wouldn't like them either. With Steven Spielberg and his ilk in Hollywood always leading us to believe that they are the poor innocent victims, I've had about enough of sitting back, and always being exposed to their propaganda since childhood, whilst saying nothing. Everyone is sick of their warmongering nonsense at this stage.

comongethappy

Conas wrote: »

I've had about enough of sitting back, and always being exposed to their propaganda since childhood, whilst saying nothing.

Since childhood!

It must have been a harrowing Jew filled upbringing & I commend you for tolerating the dastardly Jew while being able to keep silent.

Is there Anything else about the Jews you hate?

Conas

comongethappy wrote: »

Since childhood!

It must have been a harrowing Jew filled upbringing & I commend you for tolerating the dastardly Jew & keeping silent in your youth.

Is there Anything else about the Jews you hate?

Yeah stop trying to lure America into a war with Iran for your own gain. If you support a war with Iran, then turn off your computer, and you go and do the fighting.

comongethappy

Conas wrote: »

Yeah stop trying to lure America into a war with Iran for your own gain. If you support a war with Iran, then turn off your computer, and you go and do the fighting.

I'll try to stop trying.... But no promises!
America can't resist my luring.... & always does my bidding in the end.

But terrible posting aside..... The Jews...
They can't be really that bad are they?
They've surely offered the world a lot.