Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

Gringo180

kult wrote: »

Menachem Begin Israeli Prime Minister 1977 to 1983

"Our race is the Master Race. We are Divine Gods on this Planet. We are
as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact
compared to our race , other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best.
Other races are considered as human excrement. Our Destiny is to rule
over inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with
a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

Just. WOW!!!!

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A lot can happen between now and never sure but right now Israel hold all the cards and the only option for a lasting peaceful solution I can see is the repatriation of Arabs out of Palestine.

Again, loose and improper terminology. "Arabs". "Palestine". There is a state of Israel as recognised by the international community. There are areas outside that referred to collectively as the occupied territories. The "Arabs" are Palestinians.

Ethnic cleansing is no option at all.

pO1Neil

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They should yes. But they're not. Israel want all of Palestine and they have no reason to back down.

Unless Hezbollah give them another good hiding.

Iwasfrozen

pO1Neil wrote: »

Unless Hezbollah give them another good hiding.

Hezbollah have never been anything more than an annoyance to the Israelis.

Nodin wrote:

Again, loose and improper terminology. "Arabs". "Palestine". There is a state of Israel as recognised by the international community. There are areas outside that referred to collectively as the occupied territories. The "Arabs" are Palestinians.

The concept of Palestine is actually much older than modern Israel, the name Palestine to describe the region began with the Romans and continued all the way through until the British mandate.

The Palestinians are Arabs who settled in Palestine and became the dominant group in the region.

Nodin wrote:

Ethnic cleansing is no option at all.

Of course it's an option. What would you rather? A two state solution where Palestine is over-populated, impoverished and split in two by Israel?

pO1Neil

The most logical opition I think is one state solution. As a a two state solution is no longer really viable anymore. On state were all the Jews, Muslims & Christians live under the law as equal citizens, one man, one woman, one vote, it was good enough for South Africa & N.Ireland why not Israel/Palestine?

Manach

Logic does not translate well into practical politics. Quite a number of multi-ethic polities even with 100s of years of co-existing needed extensive social engineering to prevent breakup (Austro-Hungarian etc). To suggest that for Israel which has decades of animosity is just setting the state for a YugoSlavia breakup, mark II.

irishmays

pO1Neil wrote: »

The most logical opition I think is one state solution. As a a two state solution is no longer really viable anymore. On state were all the Jews, Muslims & Christians live under the law as equal citizens, one man, one woman, one vote, it was good enough for South Africa & N.Ireland why not Israel/Palestine?

I agree, a common senate where they can fight it out through dialogue and democracy. But bad blood runs deep here I think, things came to a head differently in the northern ireland solution. The main difference being the British and Republics government influence. In israel, the palistines just seem to be making headway politicaly but all the while it gets worse. Their pretty much on their own with no one really pressing the Israeli's to back off.

WakeUp

The Israelis have been warning some 100000 Gazans ( is that even a word not sure ) to evacuate their homes immediately. It would appear a ground invasion is imminent. and that's sad. and lots of people are going to suffer if they haven't suffered enough already over the past few days. If the Israelis go in I wish the innocent people of Gaza good luck . they are going to need it.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=182750

pO1Neil

irishmays wrote: »

I agree, a common senate where they can fight it out through dialogue and democracy. But bad blood runs deep here I think, things came to a head differently in the northern ireland solution. The main difference being the British and Republics government influence. In israel, the palistines just seem to be making headway politicaly but all the while it gets worse. Their pretty much on their own with no one really pressing the Israeli's to back off.

Suppose that's true Republicans had powerful allies as well, all the Arab countries except of Syria who have their own hands tied at the moment have abandoned the Palestinians.

It really is a hopeless situation for people in Gaza, they can't leave the place, it's look shooting ducks in a barrel.

pO1Neil

WakeUp wrote: »

The Israelis have been warning some 100000 Gazans ( is that even a word not sure ) to evacuate their homes immediately. It would appear a ground invasion is imminent. and that's sad. and lots of people are going to suffer if they haven't suffered enough already over the past few days. If the Israelis go in I wish the innocent people of Gaza good luck . they are going to need it.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=182750

And go where? It's not like they can leave Gaza.

Nodin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The concept of Palestine is actually much older than modern Israel, the name Palestine to describe the region began with the Romans and continued all the way through until the British mandate.?

Using it to describe the current region is unhelpful and vague.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The Palestinians are Arabs who settled in Palestine and became the dominant group in the region..?

I'd suggest that you need to do some more reading on that. However the correct term is "Palestinian", not "Arabs".

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Of course it's an option. What would you rather? A two state solution where Palestine is over-populated, impoverished and split in two by Israel?

A false dichotomy.

Nodin

pO1Neil wrote: »

The most logical opition I think is one state solution. As a a two state solution is no longer really viable anymore. On state were all the Jews, Muslims & Christians live under the law as equal citizens, one man, one woman, one vote, it was good enough for South Africa & N.Ireland why not Israel/Palestine?

There are a suprising number who favour that option. However, given the hostility and suspicion of both sides, the way the Palestinian minority within Israel is treated, it's hard to see that having a good outcome.

WakeUp

pO1Neil wrote: »

And go where? It's not like they can leave Gaza.

I don't know, it says in the article south or west wherever that means? I know they don't have anywhere to go when I said they were told to leave I was just paraphrasing some of what was in the article.

WakeUp

Nodin wrote: »

There are a suprising number who favour that option. However, given the hostility and suspicion of both sides, the way the Palestinian minority within Israel is treated, it's hard to see that having a good outcome.

I believe both options could work and are possible as long as both sides are prepared to make the required concessions and attitudes change particularly Israeli attitudes/actions .Their treatment of the Palestinians is beyond deplorable it's a disgrace and it has to change for a solution to become feasible and only then will it become possible. Both peoples have a right to live they need to figure out a way to live and tolerate one another or the cycle will just continue. I don't understand how or why the Israelis believe their actions are going to benefit them in the long run, they won't. If the Israelis don't change tact and genuinely engage with the Palestinians and find a way to make peace , and I don't think their current leaders genuinely want peace and a shared future , eventually it's going to hurt them the futile cycle of violence will continue and get worse. They need to understand this before it's too late. It looks like the Israelis once again are going to ramp up their rampage so I think this is worth posting...

In November 2012, just a month or so before his death, former IDF chief of staff Amnon Lipkin Shahak was asked to assess Operation Pillar of Defence.

"The operation was conducted fairly well and the result is reasonable. But that’s not the point. The point is that we must reach an agreement with the Palestinians. Without it, we will have to launch these operations again and again with similar results; and our leaders must also finally understand that in order to reach an agreement with the Palestinians we must talk and close the deal with those who are willing to talk to us and reach an agreement with us. I am referring to Abu Mazen (Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas). If, god forbid, he will leave, then we will be done for and left with their crazies and our crazies. They will finish us."

Azwaldo55

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist organisation with the same ideology as the Taliban and Isis.
They seek to conquer and destroy Israel and to murder all the Jews in Israel and in the entire world. Check out their charter and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
They also seek the establishment of a global Islamic Caliphate.
They believe all infidels - Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists etc should convert or die.
There can be no negotiation with these animals.
Israel should kill them all.

Azwaldo55

pO1Neil wrote: »

The most logical opition I think is one state solution. As a a two state solution is no longer really viable anymore. On state were all the Jews, Muslims & Christians live under the law as equal citizens, one man, one woman, one vote, it was good enough for South Africa & N.Ireland why not Israel/Palestine?

You are forgetting that Hamas want to kill all the Jews in Israel and the entire world and establish a global Caliphate.

How can Israel possibly negotiate with fanatics like this.

Can you imagine the negotiations?:

Israeli: "Hi nice of you to come. What are you demands?"

Hamas: "We demand that all the Jews convert to Islam or die!"

wes

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You are forgetting that Hamas want to kill all the Jews in Israel and the entire world and establish a global Caliphate.

No, they don't....... Seriously, the amount of hysteria you come out with on these thread is utterly amazing. BTW, Hamas for all the faults are not the same as ISIS or the Taliban.

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

How can Israel possibly negotiate with fanatics like this.

Can you imagine the negotiations?:

Israeli: "Hi nice of you to come. What are you demands?"

Hamas: "We demand that all the Jews convert to Islam or die!"

Ok, the only real response to that nonsense is this :rolleyes:

irishmays

How can Israel possibly negotiate with fanatics like this.

Wake up will ya israel is just as fanatical. You would swear israel were on the brink of total
Destruction surrounded by apache gun ships, guided missiles, countless armoured ground vehicles, robot gun towers........... Hmmm don't agree with hamas but I'd be fairly annoyed meself now if that was lording other over me all day everyday

pO1Neil

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist organisation with the same ideology as the Taliban and Isis.
They seek to conquer and destroy Israel and to murder all the Jews in Israel and in the entire world. Check out their charter and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
They also seek the establishment of a global Islamic Caliphate.
They believe all infidels - Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists etc should convert or die.
There can be no negotiation with these animals.
Israel should kill them all.

Yeah but at the moment Hamas are failing pretty poorly at their goals. But Israel are well on their way to creating a Gaza holocaust.

pO1Neil

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

You are forgetting that Hamas want to kill all the Jews in Israel and the entire world and establish a global Caliphate.

How can Israel possibly negotiate with fanatics like this.

Can you imagine the negotiations?:

Israeli: "Hi nice of you to come. What are you demands?"

Hamas: "We demand that all the Jews convert to Islam or die!"

Nah it would more be like

And they don't want to kill all the Jews either that's just a load of far-right crap.
Israel: Hi, sorry about the 1000's of the dead kids & millions of refuges but were not going to make the basic reforms were just to keep bombing & killing you until we feel we've killed enough of you.

And well Hamas just wont have an answer for that.

pO1Neil

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist organisation with the same ideology as the Taliban and Isis.
They seek to conquer and destroy Israel and to murder all the Jews in Israel and in the entire world. Check out their charter and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
They also seek the establishment of a global Islamic Caliphate.
They believe all infidels - Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists etc should convert or die.
There can be no negotiation with these animals.
Israel should kill them all.

Kill all the people in Gaza. Sums up all you Zionist fascists up.

RED L4 0TH

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

How can Israel possibly negotiate with fanatics like this.

What?

Which side are the fanatics on I wonder?

https://twitter.com/allansorensen72/status/486954506517639170/photo/1

irishmays

Both, one is in denial

Nodin

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist organisation with the same ideology as the Taliban and Isis.
...........................l.

Silly hyperbole.

FTA69

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

, btw don't even bother ranting about settlements to me, I've already stated numerous times on this board that I think they should be dismantled or Israel should divest control of them to the palestinian authority.

Oh sure that's grand. Unfortunately though, the settlements are a major part of the issue here and you can't just neatly sideline that with a glib comment. You espouse the narrative that Israel is "defending itself" but seem to ignore completely the significance of the settlement project. The Palestinians are literally having their country stolen away from the piece by piece in front of their very eyes. Do you have any idea how Palestinians feel about that like? To be herded into squalid refugee camp while a load of foreigners live happily on land that was once yours a few short years ago?

Considering Israel is aggressively pursuing a policy of apartheid in East Jerusalem as well as stealing and annexing whatever it wants in the West Bank; then all comments about self-defence become null and void. The fact you might happen to disagree with the settlements on a superficial level doesn't change that.

comongethappy

Nodin wrote: »

Silly hyperbole.

Is it?
I thought they were islamist?

Are they secular?

Nodin

comongethappy wrote: »

Is it?
I thought they were islamist?

Are they secular?

They are not out to conquer the world etc. Please don't be obtuse.

comongethappy

Nodin wrote: »

They are not out to conquer the world etc. Please don't be obtuse.

So ,a benign islamism then?

If I'm wrong please correct me.

FTA69

comongethappy wrote: »

Is it?
I thought they were islamist?

Are they secular?

They're in flux. The much-aluded to Charter of Hamas is largely ignored nowadays by that organisation who regard it as a bit of an embarrassment and something belonging to a different time. They also said that the Charter would have nothing to do with their program for government. Having been propelled from a small, charity-based organisation into a multi-winged movement with mass political support; they have changed significantly and are actually quite pragmatic. Still, you would never call them secular and an Islamic ethos is a big part of who they are.

Christians in Gaza aren't targeted by Hamas and the organisation has recruited a number of them.

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/05/18/impressions-from-gaza-minority-christians-and-hamas/

Gaza, however, is also far from being under complete Hamas control. There are plenty of actual fanatical Islamists knocking about as well as a significant number of criminal gangs. Another thing that people often don't realise about Palestine is the clan system. There are dozens of Arab clans in the area and these are also armed to the teeth and directed by elder Sheiks who answer to nobody. The biggest group in Hebron for instance would be one of these clans.

K-9

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist organisation with the same ideology as the Taliban and Isis.
They seek to conquer and destroy Israel and to murder all the Jews in Israel and in the entire world. Check out their charter and see for yourself if you don't believe me.
They also seek the establishment of a global Islamic Caliphate.
They believe all infidels - Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists etc should convert or die.
There can be no negotiation with these animals.
Israel should kill them all.

Mod:
As per the politics charter:

Please note that any post deemed to incite hatred or promote violence will be dealt with in the strictest possible manner. Whatever your politics we expect discussion in a manner fit for adults, but first and foremost human beings.
Celebration/promotion/triumphing of murder, violence or aggression will result in an immediate banning from the forum.

Banned.