Israel bombs 160 sites in Gaza overnight. Mod Warnings in First Post.

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

Iranian sat guided ballistic missiles with a 7km blast radius, .

Link?

I'm not sure Iran possesses a weapon system capable of destroying 150 sq km?
(Larger than the area of Jerusalem)

Nodin

Seems a tad or three too large for a conventional warhead allright.

BlaasForRafa

comongethappy wrote: »

Link?

I'm not sure Iran possesses a weapon system capable of destroying 150 sq km?
(Larger than the area of Jerusalem)

Also Israel have developed the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system with a view to possible Iranian attacks.

Manic Moran

wes wrote: »

It seems that the effectiveness of the Iron Dome is being questioned by various people, as the only information based on its effectiveness is from the IDF:

I might question the cost-effectiveness of Iron Dome, but I've seen little to indicate that it doesn't seem to be working within the parameters it's set out to achieve. The analysis on that site is pretty weak. Yes, absolutely there will be geometry shots which are disadvantageous to the system, but that's why multiple missiles are fired at the inbound to begin with.

But the basic point is not invalidated, it may prove to be a psychological weapon. There is precedent, look at Patriot in 1991. The difference there, though, is that Patriot was being used in a role it wasn't designed for. Iron dome seems to on-topic, so might well have a better relative success.

I do find it surprising that the is no information from the US on how effective it is. I am sure they must have access to the info.

I'm sure we do. Why would we release it?

wes

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

I tend to trust the technology these days. Hamas is getting few weapons ordinances through.

Except that everything I have read is that rocket/missile defense is a problem that hasn't really be solved. Hamas rarely hit anything before the Iron Dome, and there is no independent confirmation of it effectiveness. Again, If it does work half as well as Israel says it does, I am surprised the US hasn't been able to corroborate the figures, as I remember them being involved in making the tech.

wes

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm sure we do. Why would we release it?

For sales purposes for one. Secondly considering the numerous costly failures with similar tech. I would assume a success would be used to get more money from congress to develop more stuff.

The US is one of the biggest weapons manufactures in the world. Surely plenty of friendly countries would be interested in purchasing such a system, assuming it works nearly as well as claimed. Without independent verification of effectiveness, I think it best to remain skeptical, considering how piss poor the stuff Hamas is using.

Brown Bomber

wes wrote: »

Except that everything I have read is that rocket/missile defense is a problem that hasn't really be solved. Hamas rarely hit anything before the Iron Dome, and there is no independent confirmation of it effectiveness. Again, If it does work half as well as Israel says it does, I am surprised the US hasn't been able to corroborate the figures, as I remember them being involved in making the tech.

There is an interesting backstory to Iron Dome which parallels Netanyahu's cynical exploitationin the current crisis. The the taking of Jewish life along with blaming Hamas without providing any evidence and massive overreaction in the current crisis. You might remember the "jewish spring" from 2011?

• July-August 2011: A series of protests engulfs Israel. The protestors are demanding social reforms. The protests continually get larger and larger culminating in an estimated 500,000 people marching in Tel Aviv in August.
• August 8th: In response to the largest protests in Israel’s history Netanyahu “promises changes” and sets up The Trachtenberg Committee. Netanyahu says “the Trachtenberg reccomendations will involve major steps” These “major steps to appease the protestors” involve drastic cuts to the defense budget and a relocation of these funds into social projects . This enraged the hawks in Tel Aviv who claimed “No Budget, No Defense”:

Israel will not be able to protect itself from missiles fired from Lebanon and Syria. The enemy will grow stronger while the scope of threats is becoming wider with the current changes in the Middle East”

• Other Israeli sources went futher; describing it as “life and death”.
  
• August 18th (noon): A series of co-ordinated terrorist attacks targetting Israeli civilians occur in Eilat, close to the Egyptian border - leaving 8 Israelis dead.
• August 18th (hours later): Israel immediately blames the Palestinians on the terrorist attacks and bombards gaza with airstrikes in retalliation for the attacks. The casualties include a number of members of the PRC leadership.
• August 18th (evening): A number of Gazan militant groups – including the PRC but excluding Hamas – fire rockets into Israeli territory.
• August 19th: The PRC deny all involvement in the Eilat attacks. Meanwhile,previously unknown Egyptian Jihadi group “Ansar-al-Jihad” claim responsibility for the attack,
• August 19th -22nd: This violent back-and-forth pattern of Israeli airtrikes-Gazan rockets-Israeli airtrikes-Gazan rockets continues for a five consecutive days.
• August 23rd: Hamas and Israel agree to a ceasefire.
• August 23rd: “Rafael to double Iron Dome production.”
• November 13th: Egypt arrests who it claims to be the mastermind of the attacks Muhammad Al-Teeh in Egypt.
• November 14th: Further members of the same Egyptian group are detained in Egypt in connection with the attacks.
• January 6th 2012: Israel finally accepts that the Eilat attacks originated in Egypt and were carried out by Egyptians.
  
  Sadly, the people of Gaza don’t have an “Iron shield” and many innocents died during the warrantless bombardment of Gaza.

The Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip continued for three consecutive days and resulted in civilian casualties – including the killing of two children aged 2 and 4 -, and the destruction of civilian property. Israel’s reprisal on the Gaza Strip was followed by mortar fire onto Israeli population centers, which killed one Israeli civilian. Moreover, the Israeli occupying forces have arbitrarily detained more than 120 Palestinians in the Southern West Bank and have severely restricted the Palestinian freedom of movement in the area by installing a multitude of flying checkpoints and temporarily reinstalling former permanent checkpoints that had been previously removed.

The most significant consequence of the whole sorry, violent mess is that the once-frozen Iron Dome programme was reinstated. The extremist Zionists no longer had to worry where their next drone was coming from. The decision to suspend the anti-rocket system was reinstated. ”the government reversed its decision to cut NIS 3 billion from the defense budget in order to pay for reforms recommended by the Trajtenberg Committee”.

Incredibly, not only did Netanyahu reverse his decision to cut the defense budget by 3 billion shekels to improve social conditions in Israel he actually went full circle and INCREASED the military budget by 3 billion shekels. thereby saving the expansion of the Iron Dome project.
And Netanyahu’s justification...?

“I have reflected on this question, but in view of what has happened in the region, I have reached the conclusion that cutting the defence budget would be a mistake, even a big mistake

Brown Bomber

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

6 settlers were arrested and the case is proceeding as it would in any other western country. One presumes that the police got confessions or has evidence solid enough not to need to make more arrests.

I'm sorry but that doesn't begin to explain why one ethnic group are rounded up by the hundreds, indefinitely detained without charge and given the ticking timebomb status so they can be legally tortured while the other is given the protections and rights afforded to it by the justice system....and probably eventual hero status and statues built in their honour like Baruch Goldstein who murderered or injured 150 praying Muslims in cold blood.

Do you have an explanation?

Brown Bomber

kult wrote: »

These pictures say it all. It was always like this...

I opened these files expecting to see this:



Depraved.

wes

Looks like Netanyahu (predictably) was lieing through his teeth in regards to the kidnap and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers:

How Politics and Lies Triggered an Unintended War in Gaza

So, he knew they were dead from the beginning, and he also knew that it wasn't Hamas who were responsible, and he even knew who the most likely culprits were. This current war is one of choice by Netanyahu, one built on lies, and a deliberate escalation of violence, when none was needed, and yet we have the usual suspects defending Israel, despite the fact that this conflict was one of a choice made by the extremist nutter Netanyahu.

kult

iMrApex - I did not think you were jewish, that was the reason why I asked. Another reason was that I always wonder why some people protect one of the biggest terrorists in the world, not only military terrorists but economical terrorists too.

iMrApex

kult wrote: »

iMrApex - I did not think you were jewish, that was the reason why I asked. Another reason was that I always wonder why some people protect one of the biggest terrorists in the world, not only military terrorists but economical terrorists too.

How did you come to the conclusion the Israel is "one of the biggest terrorists in the world"?

kult

iMrApex wrote: »

How did you come to the conclusion the Israel is "one of the biggest terrorists in the world"?

If you knew history, then you would not have asked this question. I could write for ever about it, and there is not point because you will defend israel, so I am leaving it at this point.

Brown Bomber

iMrApex wrote: »

How did you come to the conclusion the Israel is "one of the biggest terrorists in the world"?

Can you explain what the execution of the Dahiya Doctrine is if not terrorism? http://imeu.org/article/the-dahiya-doctrine-and-israels-use-of-disproportionate-force

'With an outbreak of hostilities [with Hezbollah], the IDF will need to act immediately, decisively, and with force that is disproportionate to the enemy's actions and the threat it poses. Such a response aims at inflicting damage and meting out punishment to an extent that will demand long and expensive reconstruction processes. 'Israel's test will be the intensity and quality of its response to incidents on the Lebanese border or terrorist attacks involving Hezbollah in the north or Hamas in the south. In such cases, Israel again will not be able to limit its response to actions whose severity is seemingly proportionate to an isolated incident. Rather, it will have to respond disproportionately in order to make it abundantly clear that the State of Israel will accept no attempt to disrupt the calm currently prevailing along its borders. Israel must be prepared for deterioration and escalation, as well as for a full-scale confrontation. Such preparedness is obligatory in order to prevent long term attrition.'

kult

Menachem Begin Israeli Prime Minister 1977 to 1983

"Our race is the Master Race. We are Divine Gods on this Planet. We are
as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact
compared to our race , other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best.
Other races are considered as human excrement. Our Destiny is to rule
over inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with
a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

You think that terrorism is only related to war and killing people. This is a problem. They control and destroy counties economically etc. Israeli Prime Minister and other israeli politicians approve it. They are worse that uncle Adolf. Concentration camps etc. As I said, I am not getting involved with someone who protects and defends terrorists. No negotiations with terrorists or their supporters.

kult

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMJHPnMSuLM

that's nice too

jimeryan22

kult wrote: »

Menachem Begin Israeli Prime Minister 1977 to 1983

"Our race is the Master Race. We are Divine Gods on this Planet. We are
as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact
compared to our race , other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best.
Other races are considered as human excrement. Our Destiny is to rule
over inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with
a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."

You think that terrorism is only related to war and killing people. This is a problem. They control and destroy counties economically etc. Israeli Prime Minister and other israeli politicians approve it. They are worse that uncle Adolf. Concentration camps etc. As I said, I am not getting involved with someone who protects and defends terrorists. No negotiations with terrorists or their supporters.

Well said... The Israelis have been doing this forever. Without consequence.

jimeryan22

kult wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMJHPnMSuLM

that's nice too

Yep. Sharon.... The scum that said "I don't care what Americans think, I own their congress"....

Nodin

kult wrote: »

You think that terrorism is only related to war and killing people. This is a problem. They control and destroy counties economically etc. Israeli Prime Minister and other israeli politicians approve it. They are worse that uncle Adolf. Concentration camps etc. As I said, I am not getting involved with someone who protects and defends terrorists. No negotiations with terrorists or their supporters.

Who is "they"?

Brown Bomber

Nodin wrote: »

Who is "they"?

If you read the post it is one of two options: 1) Israeli politicians or 2) Israeli politicians who are Jewish supremacists and racists. (assuming that quote is legit).

Brown Bomber

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Yep. Sharon.... The scum that said "I don't care what Americans think, I own their congress"....

... and here is Netanyahu unaware he is being filmed: "Don't worry about the Americans. They are easily moved".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw

kult

Btw I have some jewish friends who support me in what I am saying here. They realize that it is not ALL JEWS but the group who controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

jimeryan22

Brown Bomber wrote: »

... and here is Netanyahu unaware he is being filmed: "Don't worry about the Americans. They are easily moved".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw

Your not wrong, he's actually unbelievable too... The man is without doubt socio/psychopathic...
For anybody to actually take people like them seriously is even more frightening.... Locked up is the place for him

jimeryan22

kult wrote: »

Btw I have some jewish friends who support me in what I am saying here. They realize that it is not ALL JEWS but the group who controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

So they're the same as the rest of us....
Namely, they know it's the guys running the boat, not the people in the bowels of the ship

jimeryan22

Brown Bomber wrote: »

... and here is Netanyahu unaware he is being filmed: "Don't worry about the Americans. They are easily moved".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrtuBas3Ipw

Just watched your vid... Says it all alright

kult

jimeryan22 wrote: »

So they're the same as the rest of us....
Namely, they know it's the guys running the boat, not the people in the bowels of the ship

Exactly, they are ordinary people like us. It is the same with muslims. I know plenty who are ok, no problems, do not treat wife like... but then you have those radicals etc. I do not hate all jewish people, only those who are responsible for bad things.

jimeryan22

kult wrote: »

Exactly, they are ordinary people like us. It is the same with muslims. I know plenty who are ok, no problems, do not treat wife like... but then you have those radicals etc. I do not hate all jewish people, only those who are responsible for bad things.

Exactly... The little people of the world, who are the majority, regardless of race or religion are getting lied to, manipulated and controlled...
Resulting in constant war and hatred, all behind a banner..
And to add, funny thing is, it's me and you and your kids that have to do the fighting... Not bushes blairs kennys obamas nethanyahus or whatever their feckin names...
They pick the fights

comongethappy

kult wrote: »

Btw I have some jewish friends who support me in what I am saying here. They realize that it is not ALL JEWS but the group who controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

And they killed Jesus!

Seriously drifting close to outright antisemitism.

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

And they killed Jesus!

Seriously drifting close to outright antisemitism.

And that's a serious ACCUSATION..
Especially considering the chap has already said quite to the contrary..

comongethappy

jimeryan22 wrote: »

And that's a serious ACCUSATION..
Especially considering the chap has already said quite to the contrary..

Well......

kult wrote: »

not ALL JEWS just the group who controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

Replace "JEWS" with "blacks, "pakis" or "traveller" & tell me its not drifting close to bigotry.... Something strangely tolerated on this forum.

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

Well......


Replace "JEWS" with "blacks, "pakis" or "traveller" & tell me its not drifting close to bigotry.... Something strangely tolerated on this forum.

But, and as I think you know... He doesn't mean your average Jewish person...
I think, I could be wrong.. He's maybe one of these Zionist lads..?

WakeUp

comongethappy wrote: »

Link?

I'm not sure Iran possesses a weapon system capable of destroying 150 sq km?
(Larger than the area of Jerusalem)

I'm looking for that link for you when I find it I will post it for you it was a few years ago when I read it but It did stick in my mind when I read it .It was in relation to one of their Shahab missiles . No a medium range ballistic missile would not that do that much damage (150km)with a conventional warhead.allegedly the Iranians have developed multiple maybe five conventional warheads for a number of the model types of that missile. The reason being it isn't that accurate so if they have done that a7km blast radius really isn't that much from one missile if the warheads are dispersed over a potential target. Their Shahab technology is apparently based on the North Korean nodong design though I would think by now they would have improved on that. I'll have another look for you later on.

K-9

kult wrote: »

Btw I have some jewish friends who support me in what I am saying here. They realize that it is not ALL JEWS but the group who controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

Mod: We are getting close to Jewish conspiracy theory stuff here. This is a politics forum and not for CT type discussion, Boards has a forum for that if that's your interest. Thanks.

comongethappy

jimeryan22 wrote: »

But, and as I think you know... He doesn't mean your average Jewish person...

I don't know that though.

When he/she says, without foundation or proof:

kult wrote: »

controls media, banks, other counties economy etc. Not mentioning wars , concentration camps, mass executions, killing children and women.

I'm inclined to think the poster isn't being evenhanded (to say the least).

jimeryan22 wrote: »

I think, I could be wrong.. He's maybe one of these Zionist lads..?

Does that excuse it?

Saying.... "I don't mean all black people, just the Nigerians"... wouldn't be a legitimate qualifier either.

jimeryan22

comongethappy wrote: »

I don't know that though.

When he/she says, without foundation or proof:

I'm inclined to think the poster isn't being evenhanded (to say the least).


Does that excuse it?

Saying.... "I don't mean all black people, just the Nigerians"... wouldn't be a legitimate qualifier either.

No no... I'm not excusing anything...
I'm inclined to think he believes something that maybe we do not... I just think it's too strong to throw an insult that he's an antisemite..

Nodin

jimeryan22 wrote: »

No no... I'm not excusing anything...
I'm inclined to think he believes something that maybe we do not... I just think it's too strong to throw an insult that he's an antisemite..

He posted a video by the former head of the KKK.

comongethappy

jimeryan22 wrote: »

I just think it's too strong to throw an insult that he's an antisemite..

As I will note, I didn't do that.

comongethappy wrote: »

Seriously drifting close to outright antisemitism.

So while I don't want to directly accuse anyone of anything, some of the rhetoric here is frankly beyond what is deemed acceptable to throw at other races/ethnicities.

K-9

kult wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMJHPnMSuLM

that's nice too

Mod: I'm not sure what the relevance of a video from an ex head of the KKK has on this discussion tbh. There's a worrying and noticeable trend in your previous posts. Just a polite warning for now but repeated posts like the above and others of yours will see a ban from the forum.

jimeryan22

Nodin wrote: »

He posted a video by the former head of the KKK.

Haha. Your kidding me..?
Didn't know that..
Maybe should of checked back through the thread...
Oops...
Fair enough happy..
Anti Semite I suppose he is...

comongethappy

WakeUp wrote: »

I'm looking for that link for you when I find it I will post it for you it was a few years ago when I read it but It did stick in my mind when I read it .It was in relation to one of their Shahab missiles . No a medium range ballistic missile would not that do that much damage (150km)with a conventional warhead.allegedly the Iranians have developed multiple maybe five conventional warheads for a number of the model types of that missile. The reason being it isn't that accurate so if they have done that a7km blast radius really isn't that much from one missile if the warheads are dispersed over a potential target. Their Shahab technology is apparently based on the North Korean nodong design though I would think by now they would have improved on that. I'll have another look for you later on.

I think there could be a confusion between the delivery system & the warhead.

The biggest Iranian missile is pretty inert unless it has a payload to do the damage.

AFAIK, Iran has no nuclear weapon (the only weapon that could deliver that much damage).

Manic Moran

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Can you explain what the execution of the Dahiya Doctrine is if not terrorism? http://imeu.org/article/the-dahiya-doctrine-and-israels-use-of-disproportionate-force

That's not terrorism, that's deterrent. Same reason why Georgia is unlikely to make another grab at South Ossetia against Russia any time soon: the larger military force can and will bring its disproportionate weight to bear and spank them, just like they did last time.

Looking through the various proposed legal definitions of terrorism over on Wiki, one of the noticeable exceptions is that of a State's legitimate armed forces, as their conduct is already governed under the Laws of War. Most of the definitions of terrorism require extra-jurisdictional acts by non-state bodies.

jimeryan22

Ouch..! You dirty boy David duke..
Just looked him up there..
What he stands for reads great..... " Duke supports the preservation of what he labels Western culture and traditionalist Christian "family values", strict Constitutionalism, abolition of the Internal Revenue Service". Up until....... "voluntary racial segregation, ardent anti-communism and white separatism"....
Not a very nice chap then is our david

kult

comongethappy wrote: »

Well......


Replace "JEWS" with "blacks, "pakis" or "traveller" & tell me its not drifting close to bigotry.... Something strangely tolerated on this forum.

truth is not tolerated but it is accepted. Tolerance means completely something else.

kult

K-9 wrote: »

Mod: We are getting close to Jewish conspiracy theory stuff here. This is a politics forum and not for CT type discussion, Boards has a forum for that if that's your interest. Thanks.

No conspiracy at all. Go to youtube and listen to some jewish politicians. It's proven how they work etc and they are happy to admit it publicly. Conspiracy is when we have no proof at all.

jimeryan22

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's not terrorism, that's deterrent. Same reason why Georgia is unlikely to make another grab at South Ossetia against Russia any time soon: the larger military force can and will bring its disproportionate weight to bear and spank them, just like they did last time.

Looking through the various proposed legal definitions of terrorism over on Wiki, one of the noticeable exceptions is that of a State's legitimate armed forces, as their conduct is already governed under the Laws of War. Most of the definitions of terrorism require extra-jurisdictional acts by non-state bodies.

Does this count..?

http://youtu.be/KoJGCU2XVyw

Manic Moran

wes wrote: »

For sales purposes for one. Secondly considering the numerous costly failures with similar tech. I would assume a success would be used to get more money from congress to develop more stuff.

The US is one of the biggest weapons manufactures in the world. Surely plenty of friendly countries would be interested in purchasing such a system, assuming it works nearly as well as claimed. Without independent verification of effectiveness, I think it best to remain skeptical, considering how piss poor the stuff Hamas is using.

Firstly it's an Israeli system, not American. The US system is CRAM, and is a point defense system, not an area defense system. Secondly, as far as anyone knows, the system is doing great, so why not let the perception stand? And thirdly, a US ally is involved in an ongoing conflict. It would be rather bad form to be releasing performance figures during that conflict, it is not to the ally's advantage to not have the opposition guessing at its effectiveness.

kult

I just want to say again that I am not antisemitic at all. It just happen that those people who are responsible for world wide terrorism are jews, thats all, but obviously not all jewish people are responsible for this and cannot be responsible for others actions. Just to let some people know about how some jews control media , governments etc. Example, around 70% of politicians in Poland are jewish or have jewish roots. Most of them have changed names in mid 1960 and they admitted it on the TV in 1989. They are also files , original documentation in the polish IPN ( the keep all history files ) and everyone can view them. They are ruining the country. Exactly the same thing happens in most of eastern europeans countries. Someone who has no jewish roots or is recommended will never enter any government offices. It is a fact. I had to live there for many years when parents moved to work there, know their history very well.

The Saint

Manic Moran wrote: »

That's not terrorism, that's deterrent. Same reason why Georgia is unlikely to make another grab at South Ossetia against Russia any time soon: the larger military force can and will bring its disproportionate weight to bear and spank them, just like they did last time.

You make it sound like violating the laws of war (war crimes) is a positive thing.

comongethappy

Manic Moran wrote: »

and is a point defense system, not an area defense system.

What is the difference?.... Is it not all for defending an area?
(Forgive the sidetrack)

jimeryan22

jimeryan22 wrote: »

Does this count..?

http://youtu.be/KoJGCU2XVyw

Again......

Anybody...?????