universal permit

djflawless

Hi lads
Was discussing universal fishing permits with a local fisheries officer this week.
He was telling me about how much easier his job would be if an all Ireland permit was introduced.
Also the fact that it might discourage people from poaching fisheries if there's only a small fee to fish anywhere
Just looking for peoples opinions here

SeaFields

Mod Just a reminder to everyone that the forum charter asks that the term fisheries officer is used rather than 'bailiff'. Thanks.Mod

kildare lad

would there be an age limit i.e would lads under 16 have to get one?? just wondering cos i just to do a lot of fishing between 12 and 16 years of age..

djflawless

Apologies mod!
Well as in angling clubs already, there could be a reduced charge for juveniles.
Obviously I'm not starting to set up such a fund but just looking at peoples views etc

niallon

I don't think it will do much for poaching personally, in my opinion poaching is bred from a serious malicious streak people possess.

Vastly in favour of a universal permit though, I started back fishing properly this year and it was around April before I considered Ennell and Owel, meaning I pay a 40 annual fee for 8 months of fishing that only covers a few bodies of water. A universal permit I would have no problem forking out for given the variety

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Do you mean a universal permit that would allow anybody to fish the club waters that we pay to keep and enhance or just a licence scheme?

djflawless

A scheme that would see money distributed equally throughout clubs in the country, which would also create more clubs where none have existed.
Could also create an insurance fund similar to what's set out through shooting/hunting people.

whelzer

djflawless wrote: »

A scheme that would see money distributed equally throughout clubs in the country, which would also create more clubs where none have existed.
Could also create an insurance fund similar to what's set out through shooting/hunting people.

Why would clubs exist then? If I pay and get my "Universal Permit" can I go anywhere I please, if this is the case I would probably not join the half dozen or so clubs I am currently in. One of reasons I join these clubs is to get access to their waters. Likewise am I going to go out in the winter for bank clearing/river enchancements for any oul Tom, Dick or Harry to turn up and benefit from - possibly not (I probably would) but a lot wouldn't.

I voted no as I do not think it would have a snowballs chance in hell of working in this country!

Also I do not buy the poaching line at all, no amount of rules/regulation will stop poachers. Poachers are not anglers (a fact often overlooked by many imho).

Am talking about trout rivers/clubs only btw.

danbrosnan

There is no need to over complicate this debate, obviously private fisheries will have there extra cost, basically what the poster is saying before you can use a rod and line anywhere in Ireland, either it by fresh or salt you will have to by a license...

I am pro universal license and even tho my '**** the system opinion' will try and debate why not the have one, I cannot see why a salmon angler needs to buy a license and a bass angler doesn't... Its actually completely unfair...

danbrosnan

whelzer wrote: »

Why would clubs exist then? If I pay and get my "Universal Permit" can I go anywhere I please, if this is the case I would probably not join the half dozen or so clubs I am currently in. One of reasons I join these clubs is to get access to their waters. Likewise am I going to go out in the winter for bank clearing/river enchancements for any oul Tom, Dick or Harry to turn up and benefit from - possibly not (I probably would) but a lot wouldn't.

I voted no as I do not think it would have a snowballs chance in hell of working in this country!

Also I do not buy the poaching line at all, no amount of rules/regulation will stop poachers. Poachers are not anglers (a fact often overlooked by many imho).

Am talking about trout rivers/clubs only btw.

Do you fish for sea trout or salmon?

djflawless

whelzer wrote: »

Why would clubs exist then? If I pay and get my "Universal Permit" can I go anywhere I please, if this is the case I would probably not join the half dozen or so clubs I am currently in. One of reasons I join these clubs is to get access to their waters. Likewise am I going to go out in the winter for back clearing/river enchancements for any oul Tom, Dick or Harry to turn up and benefit from - possibly not (I probably would) but a lot wouldn't.

I voted no as I do not think it would have a snowballs chance in hell of working in this country!

Also I do not buy the poaching line at all, no amount of rules/regulation will stop poachers. Poachers are not anglers (a fact often overlooked by many imho).

The permit would be coming from a "head organisation"
As stated, the same as gun clubs around the country with the nargc.
Which in turn could be broken down again into county boards.
As for fishing anywhere, that's why I have more than just yes/no on the poll
Just to see if people would like to have such an organisation set up to cover you to fish all around their county, province etc

1 of the reasons I started thinking about this idea is the lack of knowledge to be found around my area anyway at least, about local waterways.

No one seems to be able to point out the correct route for permits, what breed of fish is available and the likes
As for fishing in a different county, or sea side fishing, for me anyway, it always ends up back to square one on the waterways Ireland website confused and even more in question

whelzer

Here in Ireland, Salmon no, sea trout very occasionaly, maybe one year in of five I'll get the license. The last few years I've taken a trip abroad to get my migratory fish fix!

Are we talking license or permit here? I was assuming permit.

djflawless

IMO, I'd be voting for a permit instead of a rod licence

danbrosnan

See this is what happens in these treads and they usually get closed down, they over complicate everything, what has been proposed is basically a tax on rods, already there is a tax on salmon and sea trout anglers....

Now whatever people say or opinion-ate on that's what is happening, the government with what they think is imaginative thinking have realized that.....

Oh! Not only have we freshwater anglers in Ireland but we have also saltwater anglers, Omg and guess what there is actually loads more sea anglers that are not taxed...

Also there is a community of course anglers that are getting away scot free...

We as a country are in more debt imaginable so every avenue is been looked at and trust me there will be rod license within a few years in my opinion that's a fact...

The government see money absolutely nothing else, there is loads of people on the ground that are involved in angling every day or week that do work for clubs for absolutely noting...

What happens with the money that will be gathered from this tax is unknown we will just have to wait And see...

PS - I'm am currently 28 years of age and I suppose I have been fishing the beaches of west Kerry since 9 or 10 and for the first time ever we were shocked to see fishery officers at 2 in the morning on inch beach, they came down and we had a chat. What I did notice tho is that they never even attempted to patrol any other part of the Beach just basically drove down below the car park and chatted to us, I mean come on but look I suppose at least they were there, I myself would do things different... Tight lines..

uch

I don't see why you would Tax/Charge Sea and Coarse anglers as any money raised generally goes back into Game Fishing, the Sea and Coarse lads would see no value

SeaFields

danbrosnan wrote: »

PS - I'm am currently 28 years of age and I suppose I have been fishing the beaches of west Kerry since 9 or 10 and for the first time ever we were shocked to see fishery officers at 2 in the morning on inch beach, they came down and we had a chat. What I did notice tho is that they never even attempted to patrol any other part of the Beach just basically drove down below the car park and chatted to us, I mean come on but look I suppose at least they were there, I myself would do things different... Tight lines..

I've actually met them/ seen them a fair amount of times in south Kerry at beach venues in recent years. I'm not fishing the area that long, relatively speaking. It wasn't in the dead of night but nevertheless they were around.

madred006

niallon wrote: »

I don't think it will do much for poaching personally, in my opinion poaching is bred from a serious malicious streak people possess.

Vastly in favour of a universal permit though, I started back fishing properly this year and it was around April before I considered Ennell and Owel, meaning I pay a 40 annual fee for 8 months of fishing that only covers a few bodies of water. A universal permit I would have no problem forking out for given the variety

That 40 euro licence is incredible value ,you wouldn't fish the water it covers in 2 years .

dodderangler

Couldn't see it working.
What about a seperate licence for different species.
Like trout licence to cover leinster rivers and lakes and then pike salmon etc for

danbrosnan

uch wrote: »

I don't see why you would Tax/Charge Sea and Coarse anglers as any money raised generally goes back into Game Fishing, the Sea and Coarse lads would see no value

Does it tho! 90% of rivers, lakes and coastline have no protection! management plans or investment for angling.. How can you say that it generally goes back into angling...

djflawless

dodderangler wrote: »

Couldn't see it working.
What about a seperate licence for different species.
Like trout licence to cover leinster rivers and lakes and then pike salmon etc for

Couple of options in the poll.I know it doesn't cover all possible routes, but yeah that's what I was hoping was going to be posted
I for one reckon it would make angling life a little easier
Laois is my home county but wouldn't it be handy if I could fish the nore today.and head for the Liffey tomorrow all on the 1 licence?

danbrosnan

SeaFields wrote: »

I've actually met them/ seen them a fair amount of times in south Kerry at beach venues in recent years. I'm not fishing the area that long, relatively speaking. It wasn't in the dead of night but nevertheless they were around.

I wasn't thrown a dig of any sort, they completely undervalued, understaffed and highly disrespected from there own bosses and anglers...

A tough tough job and I commend them, it's actually impossible to cover there areas with so little staff, but it was the only time I gave ever met them on a beach at night, that's not saying they weren't doing there job or weren't watching areas..

danbrosnan

djflawless wrote: »

Couple of options in the poll.I know it doesn't cover all possible routes, but yeah that's what I was hoping was going to be posted
I for one reckon it would make angling life a little easier
Laois is my home county but wouldn't it be handy if I could fish the nore today.and head for the Liffey tomorrow all on the 1 licence?

That makes perfect sense, logical thinking..

dodderangler

djflawless wrote: »

Couple of options in the poll.I know it doesn't cover all possible routes, but yeah that's what I was hoping was going to be posted
I for one reckon it would make angling life a little easier
Laois is my home county but wouldn't it be handy if I could fish the nore today.and head for the Liffey tomorrow all on the 1 licence?

It could work in a regional way. Like if we had seperate licences for different provinces. And a licence that'll cover trout so I can fish any lake or river that holds them. If I wish to fish for salmon in leinster area then I can though it'd be more expensive but any salmon angler would be willing to pay it.
I think a provincial and species licence could work

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'm totally confused by whether people are talking about a licence or a permit here. There's no way our trout and salmon club would survive if people could buy a licence in say Kildare and just fish our waters for free whenever they wanted. A rod licence is one thing but a free for all permit to fish where you liked would mean our small club would cease spending our funds on improving our waters. To say funds would be directed to clubs doesn't hold as the bigger clubs and tourist waters would get the lion's share, plus why would we bother if we can just fish to finer rivers nearby instead?
I also think a charge for a father to take a child fishing for mackerel once a year would be harsh. But that is another discussion.

SeaFields

Conrad Future Gift wrote: »

I'm totally confused by whether people are talking about a licence or a permit here.

I have to echo this....is it a permit or licence is being talked about?

I believe (but am open to correction) that a permit (in what we generally take to the term to mean) really isn't an issue that concerns IFI staff. Permits, club permissions etc. are a civil matter. A licence on the other hand would be of concern to them as it is a legal requirement.

If the OP is talking about a permit, it wouldn't work without a massive state buyout of fishing rights everywhere. Not in a blue moon would that happen.
It would be an impossible undertaking.

A licence on the other hand can be introduced on a whim through legislation and made a legal requirement when angling. Possible, most definitely. Fair? Probably not.

djflawless

A rod licence is possible too(next post for my opinion of this).I'm thinking of this as someone who's membership money goes to nothing.
We're far from a tourist area here and our club money doesn't seem to do anything except pay for printing of next years membership cards..
Any grants or government appointed money around me seems to go to pay at the gate fisheries
So that's no good to us unless we fish these fisheries
Whereas if the regional permits/licences came thru.it would see rivers/lakes/canals all get a share of the action
For canals etc, obviously they would have extra funding from another source for boating permits already in place
I'd be looking at it as money distributed equally throughout a county/region
Not by "ah sure we get more tourists than ye so we get a bigger share"

djflawless

Well as I stated, I'd be more for a permit than just a regular "rod licence"
A rod licence in itself will just be a tax on rods that anglers won't see

But a fishing licence in itself is arguably different than a rod licence

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

djflawless wrote: »

A rod licence is possible too.I'm thinking of this as someone who's membership money goes to nothing.
We're far from a tourist area here and our club money doesn't seem to do anything except pay for printing of next years membership cards..
Any grants or government appointed money around me seems to go to pay at the gate fisheries
So that's no good to us unless we fish these fisheries
Whereas if the regional permits/licences came thru.it would see rivers/lakes/canals all get a share of the action
For canals etc, obviously they would have extra funding from another source for boating permits already in place
I'd be looking at it as money distributed equally throughout a county/region
Not by "ah sure we get more tourists than ye so we get a bigger share"

In that case you are taking about a universal permit to fish any waters. Not a hope. The state would have to buy out the rights of every club and riparian owner in the country. Utter madness as well.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

djflawless wrote: »

A rod licence in itself will just be a tax on rods that anglers won't see

But a fishing licence in itself is arguably different than a rod licence

Not different at all. A licence is a licence and a permit is a permit. Let's please be clear on which we are advocating, or not, here. A gun licence is a shooting licence but you need to be a member of a club, or pay an estate, to take that gun and shoot on certain lands.

djflawless

Conrad Future Gift wrote: »

In that case you are taking about a universal permit to fish any waters. Not a hope. The state would have to buy out the rights of every club and riparian owner in the country. Utter madness as well.

That's why I have a few different options in the poll..
Intercounty
Provincial
What fish your after
List of possibilities that could work out
Can't see how its utter madness as I'm just opinionating a few possible outcomes

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

djflawless wrote: »

That's why I have a few different options in the poll..
Intercounty
Provincial
What fish your after
List of possibilities that could work out
Can't see how its utter madness as I'm just opinionating a few possible outcomes

The state would have to hold all the fishing rights for this to operate.