Fast growing firewood

Mad4simmental

Hi lads, I am thinking of planting a few trees around the boundary & in ditches of our farm. What would be a good fast growing tree that I could use for fire wood? I'm thinking of planting a few every year type of thing.

Are there diffrent types of ash trees that grow faster ect? Thanks

Lano Lynn

thinking same thing, a very undervalued resource,have been filling gaps in hedges with willow/sally just cut a bundle of sticks and shove them in the ground.but going to put in hazel as well from now on planted a few four or five years ago and cannot believe how they have done regret that I planted a hawthorn hedge as an aeos measure it would yield far more firewood if it was hazel and a lot easier harvested.
transplant selfseeded ash alder and sycamore saplings from around the yard occasionaly.

Oldtree

Agreed, Goat willow, sycamore and alder would be good ones to use, maby some fast growing poplar too. All will coppice well in the short term. In around ditches willow and alder would be better I think.

You could use your own ash seedlings if you have them on your lands, but ash is no longer for sale or allowed to be moved around the country. Just one species of ash here.

monkeynuz

Not black poplar though, it won't burn iirc, sure oldtree will confirm or correct (I think black poplar is used for steam engine chocks because it doesn't burn)

Oldtree

I meant fast growing poplar like this available from the Organic centre.

http://www.theorganiccentre.ie/node/801

But I would not use too much poplar in the mix. My preference is for ash but I mainly grow willow.

TomOnBoard

Just ensure that whatever you plant will provide a useful harvest within a 10-year time-frame, Otherwise a felling licence may be needed before you can legally do that harvest. And unfortunately, if you're not watching that VERY CAREFULLY, someone can deem your land to have become forest for ever more, rather than your perfectly productive agricultutal or amenity land that you have enhanced by sowing some stands of environmentally- friendly trees.

Such is the type of madness that underpins everything that is done in this country today.

guscon

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Just ensure that whatever you plant will provide a useful harvest within a 10-year time-frame, Otherwise a felling licence may be needed before you can legally do that harvest. And unfortunately, if you're not watching that VERY CAREFULLY, someone can deem your land to have become forest for ever more, rather than your perfectly productive agricultutal or amenity land that you have enhanced by sowing some stands of environmentally- friendly trees.

Such is the type of madness that underpins everything that is done in this country today.

Hey Tom,
been planting a few bits of land over last couple of years, alder in wet ground. Bout 1/10 acre with aim of more in future. Planning on coppice when ready. Any more info on this about not being able to harvest it when I want? Would you not be able to do it as sustainable woodland management?
Any idea on who can deem it so you need a licence?
Thanks

Oldtree

guscon wrote: »

Any idea on who can deem it so you need a licence?

Bit of reading for you:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/forestservice/treefelling/

TomOnBoard

guscon wrote: »

Hey Tom,
been planting a few bits of land over last couple of years, alder in wet ground. Bout 1/10 acre with aim of more in future. Planning on coppice when ready. Any more info on this about not being able to harvest it when I want? Would you not be able to do it as sustainable woodland management?
Any idea on who can deem it so you need a licence?
Thanks

You will see the regulations posted by Oldtree above.

Whether coppicing or pollarding constitute 'cutting down' a tree as envisaged by the regulations is a bit unclear. I'm sure that some will say that obtaining the felling licence is usually not a problem. However, who knows what a particular official might decide on any given day?

The issue I have with this is not that a felling licence is required. I deplore widespread knocking down of perfectly healthy trees that have a significant role to play in terms of landscape, preservation of natural habitat etc. However, I also deplore a regulation that says you can't cut down a tree, when no tree would be there if you had not planted it. I might have decided in 2000 that I would like to create say 3 acres of woodland. However, by 2011, my circumstances might have changed financially such that I need to use my land much more efficiently and need to clearfell that 3 acres. I am now into getting permission from the State to undo something I did voluntarily 11 years previously. My right to use my land as I see fit, but in a very nature-friendly way, is compromised, and that is not right.

If I got a grant and/or premia for that planting in 2000, and if I undo the planting, then of course I should have to pay that grant and premium back to the State as I have broken my contract with the State. But that should be an easy thing to do and should not be prohibited in law, unless I am on very good terms with the people in the Forest Service who can allow this to happen. If I have been 'fighting' with them over the years, guess how hard it'll be for me to reverse out of that particular arrangement!

Oldtree

That's a very interesting point tom. I had not thought about the second coppice rotation possible needing a FL. I apply for a general felling licence every 5 years as part of the management of my woodland (including the entire holding) so that covers me and I inform the inspector what I am doing and intend to do. Its an easy process imo.

Pollarding usually means higher up in the tree and under the current forestry act felling is cutting the trunk at 6 foot or under.

I think there are attempts to make adjustments to this under the proposed new act (will try and find it)

St. Leibowitz

""The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine advise that, under Section 37 of the Forestry Act, 1946, it is illegal to uproot any tree over ten years old or to cut down any tree of any age (including trees which form part of a hedgerow), unless a Felling Notice has been lodged at the Garda Station nearest to the trees at least 21 days before felling commences.""


I had mentioned this in another thread some time ago.


The rules, quoted above seem to be designed to specifically prevent coppicing.


If the tree is under 10 years old, you can uproot it (ie, kill it) without any problem. However, you cannot cut down a tree of any age. This does not allow coppicing as far as I can see.



So if you have trees on your land which you want to manage and nurture by coppicing on a rotation, you need a felling licence and all that goes with it. But you can uproot those trees with impunity.



Seems crazy.

Oldtree

but not the first rotation if it is under 10 years, agreed bizarre. but it is not a bad process to get a gfl.

definition of cut down

"the expression “cut down” means, in relation to a tree, cut through the trunk of the tree at a height of less than six feet from the ground surface to such an extent that the tree falls or is rendered liable to fall under the influence of natural agencies"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1946/en/act/pub/0013/sec0035.html#sec35

Oldtree

ok found it at last, in the pdf copy of the proposed Forestry Bill 2013 that I have: (must look for an update):

section 18 exempted trees

(c)(4)(j) of the willow or poplar species planted and maintained solely for fuel under a short rotation coppice,

(c)(4)(m) (iii) not forming part of a decorative avenue or ring of trees on an agricultural holding and removed by the
owner for use on that holding, provided that the volume of trees so removed does not exceed 15 cubic metres in any period of 12 months,

I will get back when I have an update as to implementation, but it would appear that the issue is being addressed. I do not know if "Use by the owner" includes firewood but it seems reasonable.

JohnBoy

interesting, that sounds a bit more reasonable.

roughly (and I know it's akin to a piece of string) how many 20 year old ash trees would it take to make 15 cubic metres?

TomOnBoard

JohnBoy wrote: »

interesting, that sounds a bit more reasonable.

roughly (and I know it's akin to a piece of string) how many 20 year old ash trees would it take to make 15 cubic metres?

A VERY piece of string question all right, but here goes:

I would guess that it would take 3 to 4 trees to make a solid cube, assuming you've had good growth, and you cut everything down to 3 inches for firewood. Thats 40 - 60 trees.

If your ash had good butts, fit for hurleys, a good few more..