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Toaiseach intervenes in Brooks debacle.

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Comments

  • #252
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Thoie wrote: »
    If the promoters had submitted the application in a timely manner, they would have received a response months ago (as early as April if they'd submitted it right after they sold all the tickets). The process takes a set amount of time to allow for the public to object.

    The fact is that the promoters submitted their application very late in the game, knowing that the acceptance/rejection would come only a couple of weeks before the concerts. I suspect that this was a deliberate ploy as they knew they were on dodgy ground, and were hoping for the "we can't cancel on x thousand people this close to the event" reaction.

    While I have no particular love of DCC, they have done nothing wrong here. The blame lies entirely at the feet of whoever it was who decided not to even submit the application until April.

    Your allegations that officials failed to do their jobs in a competent, clear, honest and transparent manner has no basis in reality. It comes across as a pathetic attempt to tarnish reputations, just because they didn't come to the conclusion you wanted.

    The application was agreed with DCC and submitted 14 weeks ago . . . .


  • #253
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    Enda can, hence the flurry of activity and flapping behind the scenes.
    This kind of underhanded shoite is exactly the reason why I would never vote for FG or FF in the first place TBH.


  • #254
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.



    I agree. But this thread and op is about political interference in the planning process.

    There was none except for an attempt to rush through a bill by FF. There shouldnt be any in any shape or form.


  • #255
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    This kind of underhanded shoite is exactly the reason why I would never vote for FG or FF in the first place TBH.

    Cranks don't affect political reality in the real world.


  • #256
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    They didn't propose anything, Aiken proposed the matinees, and DCC said they would consider it on foot of an updated Event Management Plan that was within the terms of the original licence and consequently the law. It has not been approved and is not on offer anymore due to Brooks.


  • #257
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Nope. Just look at Israel/Palestine peace talks. All PR, never amount to anything.


  • #258
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Nope. Just look at Israel/Palestine peace talks. All PR, never amount to anything.

    yep they should just keep killing each other to keep you happy :rolleyes:


  • #259
    Thoie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    The application was agreed with DCC and submitted 14 weeks ago . . . .

    So you're agreeing with me that the promoter didn't submit their application until April, knowing full well how long the planning process takes? Remember, this is not their first time applying for a concert license - they're fully aware of the timelines involved.


  • #260
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Thoie wrote: »
    So you're agreeing with me that the promoter didn't submit their application until April, knowing full well how long the planning process takes? Remember, this is not their first time applying for a concert license - they're fully aware of the timelines involved.

    14 weeks ago . . lol


  • #261
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    Cranks don't affect political reality in the real world.
    In the last election more than 50% of the Ireland didn't vote for FF or FG. I guess "crank" is the new standard.


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  • #262
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #263
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    yep they should just keep killing each other to keep you happy :rolleyes:
    Got anything to say that makes an ounce of sense or just random words in random order rinse repeat?


  • #264
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    In the last election more than 50% of the Ireland didn't vote for FF or FG. I guess "crank" is the new standard.

    Meanwhile FG are in power over you, not the cranks . . . ponder that one.


  • #265
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Got anything to say that makes an ounce of sense or just random words in random order rinse repeat?

    Like you bringing Gaza into this thread, what's the next rant the Pope ? lol


  • #266
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    And it seems some people are willing to actively promote planning corruption as long as Brooks does play.


  • #267
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    Meanwhile FG are in power over you, not the cranks . . . ponder that one.
    Meanwhile Brooks isn't playing while you get to cry into your GB matching pillowcase and duvet cover set . . . ponder that one.


  • #268
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    Like you bringing Gaza into this thread, what's the next rant the Pope ? lol
    "rant the Pope"? Want to try something in English next time?


  • #269
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Meanwhile Brooks isn't playing while you get to cry into your GB matching pillowcase and duvet cover set . . . ponder that one.

    Oh look the mask slips . . . lol


  • #270
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #271
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    The forgeries (such as they are, we don't know the extent yet) have been found and dealt with.
    How much better would you like the system to function?
    The forgeries are irrelevant at this stage as there where also genuine, verified objections.
    Objections are only part of what is taken into consideration...planning could be refused even without objections if the Event Plan isn't up to muster or the venue is unsuitable or crowd control is not possible.

    It seems many people are happy to look past this just to get to see Brooks.


  • #272
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    Oh look the mask slips . . . lol
    The mask of... oh you didn't say. You were just waffling on again.


  • #273
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    IMO Keegan is now irrelevant to the discussion. The decision has been made and won't be re-visited. I am proud of that and Keegan...he has made one thing clear...things have finally changed in Ireland.


  • #274
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Forgeries have been removed and there was still plenty to go on to ban the concerts. Maybe I should send in one forged objection to every planning permission submission and by your rules permission therefore has to be granted?


  • #275
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    The mask of... oh you didn't say. You were just waffling on again.

    you better get busy forging some more objections, isn't that what you cranks love to to :)


  • #276
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Objections are only part of what is taken into consideration...planning could be refused even without objections if the Event Plan isn't up to muster or the venue is unsuitable or crowd control is not possible.
    Spot on. Why local residents should have to go through the planning process in the first place to stop 400,000 people traipsing through their neighbourhood with 150 decibel noise pollution is beyond me.


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  • #277
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    you better get busy forging some more objections, isn't that what you cranks love to to :)

    "cranks love to to"? Did you learn your English from Garth Brooks lyrics or something? What does that even mean?


  • #278
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    "cranks love to to"? Did you learn your English from Garth Brooks lyrics or something? What does that even mean?

    given the sponging cranks can't even do decent forgeries, then I fear it would be a bit too much for you :)


  • #279
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #280
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    There is a very easy fix to all this.
    You cannot be licensed as a venue unless you have legal agreements and a code of practice agreed with residents. Reviewable every 5 years.
    Problem solved, nobody's rights get trampled on.


  • #281
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #282
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Where have the Gardai said that? You can't keep saying that without linking to a source.

    And while you are at it...link to a source that says they didn't verify objections before taking them into consideration.


  • #283
    Faolchu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Where have the Gardai said that? You can't keep saying that without linking to a source.

    .

    Joan bruton said it yesterday morning on TV


  • #284
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Faolchu wrote: »
    Joan bruton said it yesterday morning on TV

    Joan is in the Guards? :rolleyes:


  • #285
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Why are you placing money ahead of the legitimate rights of local residents to peace and quiet and a night's sleep? You're just like Enda with his "sure, we're skinning babies alive to make handbags here, but it's all about the JOBS".


  • #286
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Joan is in the Guards? :rolleyes:

    She's higher up than that. Lets see how you learn to respect authority when the 5 concerts are given the all clear this week.


  • #287
    AlanG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Thoie wrote: »
    If the promoters had submitted the application in a timely manner, they would have received a response months ago (as early as April if they'd submitted it right after they sold all the tickets). The process takes a set amount of time to allow for the public to object.

    The fact is that the promoters submitted their application very late in the game, knowing that the acceptance/rejection would come only a couple of weeks before the concerts. I suspect that this was a deliberate ploy as they knew they were on dodgy ground, and were hoping for the "we can't cancel on x thousand people this close to the event" reaction.

    While I have no particular love of DCC, they have done nothing wrong here. The blame lies entirely at the feet of whoever it was who decided not to even submit the application until April.

    Your allegations that officials failed to do their jobs in a competent, clear, honest and transparent manner has no basis in reality. It comes across as a pathetic attempt to tarnish reputations, just because they didn't come to the conclusion you wanted.

    Totally agree with this post - the application was left until the last minute to try and force the planners hand. If DCC or the gov back down now it shows that little has changed in our planning systems since developers could get anything they wanted a few years back.
    This is all about profit margins, brooks will play the 3 gigs if DCC stand firm, that is why they have not refunded anyone yet.


  • #288
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #289
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    She's higher up than that. Lets see how you learn to respect authority when the 5 concerts are given the all clear this week.
    Like you have learned to respect authority with the current ruling of three concerts I suppose? You must love that authority huh.


  • #290
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Nope. No strawman. Why are you bringing "money brought into Dublin" into this then? That's a strawman then if ever there was one. How is that connected to residents' right? Clue: it isn't.
    "Up to 40% may have been" is what I'm reading from a "source". i.e. garbage.
    And that's still 240 minimum legitimate objections, when one isn't really needed at all to deny the permission.


  • #291
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,186 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Nope. No strawman. Why are you bringing "money brought into Dublin" into this then? That's a strawman then if ever there was one. How is that connected to residents' right? Clue: it isn't.
    "Up to 40% may have been" is what I'm reading from a "source". i.e. garbage.
    And that's still 240 minimum legitimate objections, when one isn't really needed at all to deny the permission.
    40% is enough to deem it corrupt


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  • #292
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    40% is enough to deem it corrupt
    40% is enough to deem to deem the other 60% irrelevant?
    So we're back to sending in a few forged objections and then permission has to be granted?
    That's after the fact really that what we have is some "source" saying "up to" 40% of objection "may have been" fraudulent.
    Like I said, every one of those in inverted commas are journalism keywods for bull****.


  • #293
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    40% is enough to deem it corrupt

    The DCC are not responsible if forgeries come in.
    They are responsible for verifying objections, and they do with an answer back system.
    There is no evidence to suggest they didn't verify objections.
    They called in the Gardai when some (we don't know how many, despite 'unconfirmed' claims being made here) where found.


  • #294
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    She's higher up than that. Lets see how you learn to respect authority when the 5 concerts are given the all clear this week.

    Not gonna happen


  • #295
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    But if the "legitimate residents" have no clue that someone is putting in forged objections then it's not their fault right? Should their objections be thrown out and ignored because of ALLEGATIONS of forged objections?


  • #296
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #297
    Valmont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    Preferably something from a peer-reviewed, high impact-factor journal, please.


  • #298
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And if some were forged (40%?) does that mean the other 60% from legitimate people should be binned?


  • #299
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #300
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    So no actual Gardai statement...carry on. :rolleyes:


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  • #301
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    And if their decision remains the same, what would you say then?


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