Why is Robbie Keane not appreciated?

death1234567

Like most football statistics his record is pretty meaningless. International football is about playing rubbish teams 80% of the time and only 20% of the games you play actually matter. It's what you do in those 20% of games that matters. Just look at Peter Crouch's goal scoring record for England.

Keane's problem is that if he doesn't score he doesn't do anything else. He doesn't hold the ball up, or stretch the play, or run the channels or be very creative. He's a poacher really, but still one of Irelands best strikers given the dearth of talent we have had in that area.

Essien

Robbie Keane is under appreciated because some Irish fans think that the occasional bout of getting upset with people on the pitch and waving your arms around a bit outweighs his astonishing ability to show up and do the business for his country year in year out like a ****ing boss.

LuckyLloyd

He may be a poacher now, but in his prime (particularly the 2010 qualification campaign) he was essential for us in linking play and creating opportunities through good movement.

To appreciate him at his best you had to see him live. Brilliant, brilliant movement and workrate off the ball, a real natural football brain. The Inter Milan move came too early - it was a dreadful situation for a young player at that time. I thought he was making a positive impact at Liverpool but there was **** going on there at the time and he was a victim of things unrelated to his performance levels.

Did he have bad games? Sure, what players don't have bad games? Was he wooden in the media? Absolutely, hardly odd amongst professional footballers. Did he wave his arms around in frustration from time to time or remonstrate with referees? Yeah, so what.

MarkSRFC21 wrote: »

I personally don't think he is appreciated because he is sh*t

'****'. Robbie Keane is '****' apparently. I always feel very certain that I'm on the right side of the Robbie Keane debate when I read posts like the above tbh.

Dave0301

I don't get people having a go at this club record either. He is currently 12th in the all time top premier league goals chart, and the players around him are all excellent.

You don't get into that position by being average.

bullvine

Dave0301 wrote: »

I don't get people having a go at this club record either. He is currently 12th in the all time top premier league goals chart, and the players around him are all excellent.

You don't get into that position by being average.

Emile Heskey is on that list though :eek:

aodea

Robbie Keane is without a doubt one of the best players in Irish History. His goals record is brillant. As he has got a little older he has not got the legs to do the chasing he used to do but he ran himself into the ground in his younger years. Chasing lose balls, running the channels in particular when he played alongside taller forwards such as quinn.

Football is a very fickle game and often players are critisced after one or two bad games but Keane has seen countless forwards come along and has remained our main man. Why because he is better than them Doyle, Long, Walters, Folan, Elliot, Cox, Doherthy, Morrission etc the list is endless.

managers all know how important he is to teams. People say he has a bad club record? may be wrong here but he is top 15 of all time prem scorers defo top 20. He has been signed by several managers who all see something in him.

Why people would question him if he is a bit dull in interviews is pointless.

Can you question him having a bad game course you can people are questioning messi after the world cup semi thats football. Can you question his record for Ireland? Not one bit.

One of the most exciting players i have seen in an Ireland jersey.

BMJD

farna_boy wrote: »

His biggest problem is his personality/attitude. A prime example is when LA Galaxy won the MLS Western Conference series. His expression on being handed the cup emphasises my point more than words could.


http://balls.ie/football/robbie-keane-could-not-have-been-less-enthusiastic-about-lifting-the-mls-western-conference-cup/

you judge a man's personality and ability to play professional football because of a facial expression in a gif? reallly?!

Richard Hillman

BMJD wrote: »

you judge a man's personality and ability to play professional football because of a facial expression in a gif? reallly?!

That's a very lazy post.

LeBash

You cant mention Klose and Keane in the same bracket.

Klose plays for Germany, a no 1 seed for every tournament with a top quaility team around him.

Ireland have been seeded in fouth at one stage meaning there are 3 higher rated teams above is in a group.

Keanes record coupled with the poor squad around him is one of the best in the world without question.

How many goals would Klose have if he played with Green instead of Ozil?

GLaDOS

People will appreciate him more when he's retired. We've nobody close to him in the goalscoring department.

drumswan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He may be a poacher now, but in his prime (particularly the 2010 qualification campaign) he was essential for us in linking play and creating opportunities through good movement.

To appreciate him at his best you had to see him live. Brilliant, brilliant movement and workrate off the ball, a real natural football brain.

The average poster on boards has nowhere near that level of understanding of the game tbh

samantha fortune

the mans a ledge

bullvine

LeBash wrote: »

You cant mention Klose and Keane in the same bracket.

Klose plays for Germany, a no 1 seed for every tournament with a top quaility team around him.

Ireland have been seeded in fouth at one stage meaning there are 3 higher rated teams above is in a group.

Keanes record coupled with the poor squad around him is one of the best in the world without question.

How many goals would Klose have if he played with Green instead of Ozil?

Do I understand this correctly? Keane is better than Klose as a forward because Klose wouldn't have scored as many goals for Ireland as Keane.

How could you possibly know that.

bullvine

drumswan wrote: »

The average poster on boards has nowhere near that level of understanding of the game tbh

He was defo more of a linkman than an out and out forward, he actually reminded me of Dwight Yorke when he first came on the scene. At the time the way Yorke was playing for United in his prime.

Jarrod

SeanJ09 wrote: »

You really think he would have fitted into that Real team ahead of Raul and Fernando Morientes? Keane didn't exactly set the world alight in his time at Inter and Leeds during that period.

I didn't say he'd have made it into that Real team, that was someone else. My point was that the idea of him going to a big European club wouldn't have been completely ludicrous.

The Inter move was a disaster for many reasons, I think he should have stayed at Coventry for another season, but I suppose when Inter Milan come knocking you don't turn it down. I remember a quote from Lippi, something of the lines of 'We were looking for the best young players in Europe, and he was one of them.' Had he got another year of Premiership football under his belt before a big move (and one to a more stable club), it could have made a huge difference.

As for his personality, I've met him twice and he's seemed lovely both times. Once in my younger days, he signed a programme and had a few quick words about the match. Then I met him more recently, just after this spell at Celtic. I'm a Rangers fan and Ireland were about to play Algeria. I commented about Keane v Bougherra 2! (They'd recently played each other in an Old Firm game). He could have taken it badly or not responded but in fairness, he took it very well and had a sharp comeback for me.

One final point that I have to make. The 'boyhood club' joke is very tired and frankly sh1te. He said it twice, about Liverpool and Celtic. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that it's not uncommon for young lads here to follow Celtic and an English team, so get over it, it's not funny.

ETA: Only the first two paragraphs are in response to the quote, the second two are general ramblings.

bullvine

I think his Leeds move was a disaster as well, he went there when they were stacked with good strikers.

COYVB

thelad95 wrote: »

In his prime, Robbie Keane was the hot property in Europe and it was a surprise to me that he never went anywhere bigger than Spurs or Liverpool

He went to Inter

bullvine

When exactly was Robbie Keane hot property in Europe? I know he went to Inter when he was 20 but he wasn't exactly James Rodriquez at the time.

He got his big move, when he went to Liverpool, at the time a club which was feared in Europe and one of the top 5 clubs on the planet and subsequently shipped out when Rafa Benitez realized he'd made a mistake.

Hazys

Where would Robbie rank among the other greats in an Irish jersey? Keane eile, Brady, Given, McGrath, etc.

Others have had better club careers but i think in terms of an international career he could be the greatest in an Irish jersey.

square ball

Keane is completely different to any player we've ever had. He reminds me a lot of Rául. Not particularly fast, strong or even the most skillful. What he does have is a great intelligence towards the game. He always finds space for himself and knows where the ball will go.

His goal record speaks for itself. 12th highest scorer in PL. Tottenhams 10th highest scorer of all time. 3 times more international goals for Ireland than anyone else. Joint 2nd top goalscorer in European Championship Qualification. In the top 20 All time international goalscorers ahead of likes of C.Ronaldo, David Villa and Thierry Henry.

Can't understand why so many Irish 'fans' think so little of him. He has 49 more goals than our next highest goalscorer in the squad.

bullvine

You can't question Robbie Keane as an Ireland legend, best forward we've had for the country. However, he was lucky that he had practically zero competition for his place because of the lack of options and I think that really helped when accumulating the amount of goals.

KingdomYid

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

I recall some analysis showing how few goals Keane scored against top 6 premiership teams while at Tottenham and Liverpool etc.

I'd also like to see a comparison between Klose goals against top (or reasonable) opposition (e.g. in WC and Euro finals etc) versus Robbie Keane scoring mostly against minnow teams.

The one world cup he did play in he scored three goals, two of which came against Germany and Spain.

thelad95

Business Cat wrote: »

Easily the most frustrating player I've ever seen in an Irish jersey and IMO a bit of a spoofer.

I could name at least 20 players who are/were more frustrating.

AllGunsBlazing

square ball wrote: »

He reminds me a lot of Rául.

No. Just no.

bucketybuck

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

I recall some analysis showing how few goals Keane scored against top 6 premiership teams while at Tottenham and Liverpool etc.

Just like Suarez couldn't score against the top 6 teams last season.

Muahahaha

farna_boy wrote: »

His biggest problem is his personality/attitude. A prime example is when LA Galaxy won the MLS Western Conference series. His expression on being handed the cup emphasises my point more than words could.


http://balls.ie/football/robbie-keane-could-not-have-been-less-enthusiastic-about-lifting-the-mls-western-conference-cup/

I wonder what what going on there ? He was club captain and they won the league and he just lifts the trophy for a split second before appearing to walk off ?

Anyway I think the point someone made about the defensive media training that footballers are given in the PL is very true. If Robbie was asked an awkward question on RTE after an Ireland game he usually scrunched up his face and answered it quite defensively. In interviews he always looked like he felt he was under attack. Don't forget his perspective either - you've just ran for 90 minutes and tried your best and now the likes of Eamon Dunphy is being critical to create controversy, being a footballer must be pretty annoying sometimes.

It's a pity we never got to see more of Keanes quick witted personality but at the end of the day he isn't all that comfortable in front of the cameras off the field. It doesn't really matter either because you can't argue with his scoring record.

Nonetheless I agree with the OP. You can put Robbie Keanes international scoring record against many of the greats and it compares very favourably. He has more goals at international level than Bobby Charlton, Thierry Henry or Ronaldo ffs. No other Irishman can say that but Robbie Keane can.

He's at 62 goals now. Only another 15 required to haul in Pele's 77 for Brazil. Push on Robbie, push on.

square ball

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

No. Just no.

He is similar enough. Maybe a poor mans Rául. Accomplished finisher, fox in the box, decent link man, drops short to pick up ball, works his socks off and has a similar build.

gormdubhgorm

thebaz wrote: »

no one could fault his international record - the lack of appreciation is probably due to his at best patchy Club record - in comparison to the greats - klinsman, van basten, maradonna - he's no where near , most of these guys have scored goals consistently at the highest level, both at club & international. How many of Robbie's goals were scored against the top top team in competitive games?

Here is a list of all his international goals and who they were scored against:
http://www.myfootballfacts.com/RobbieKeanesIrishGoals.html you can work it out from that.

gormdubhgorm

digzy wrote: »

Is there a snobbish element that dislikes him? The Dublin accent etc.. Compared to media darling, polished o Driscoll.

To be fair the soccer players in general don't spend as much time in education as the rugby lads which might affect how they come across in interviews. They are pretty to the point and say as little as possible, similar to the gaa lads. The media seem to give the rugby guys an easier time.

I'd agree with the general sentiment, he was a fantastic players for us and a real good honest guy off it... Wife is some babe too

There is a thread on this site about Robbie Keane's Wife asking would a girl from Malahide have married a fella from Tallaght if he didn't have money! I am starting to think snobbery/begrudgery has a lot to with it!

atilladehun

Comparing him to Maradona et al baffles me. He's not that good. Don't criticise him for it. He is our top ever scorer. /no one has ever come near what he has done. Scoring goals is the most difficult thing in the game.

As far as the other stuff goes I believe his attitude on the pitch is brilliant. The moaning when things go wrong pale in comparison to the amount of runs and movement to create space to score goals.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Robbie has scored against: Yugoslavia, Turkey, Czech Republic x2, Holland x2, Russia, Denmark x2, Germany, Spain, Croatia, Sweden x2, Colombia, Norway and Italy amongst others, nothing wrong with the quality of opposition there.
Robbie deserves and is a hero of Irish soccer, he would die to wear the jersey when others devalue it, he is highly talented and has delivered and we will have some trouble replacing him when he retires.
In the phanteon of Irish soccer heroes imo he only comes after Giles, Brady and McGrath.

Boskowski

He's a bit like Oezil for us.

These standout players have such a high profile that it makes it almost inevitable that media and people lay into them. They're being watched all the time and people expect or even demand special things from them. When these players then don't do special things all the time, people overlook the fact that what they're doing is still very good.

Tiger Woods has the following quote attributed too him: 'Nothing's ever good enough'

Aenaes

farna_boy wrote: »

His biggest problem is his personality/attitude. A prime example is when LA Galaxy won the MLS Western Conference series. His expression on being handed the cup emphasises my point more than words could.


http://balls.ie/football/robbie-keane-could-not-have-been-less-enthusiastic-about-lifting-the-mls-western-conference-cup/

Muahahaha wrote: »

I wonder what what going on there ? He was club captain and they won the league and he just lifts the trophy for a split second before appearing to walk off ?

It's only the Western Conference though. 10 teams then go into play-offs to win the MLS Cup which is the real title.

NFL players don't really celebrate winning Conferences either, it's all about the Superbowl.

Sergio

Soups123 wrote: »

Questionable in what way he has been a model professional?

Except for when things dont go his way and hes spends more time rolling around the pitch or running around waving his hands in the air!

MarkSRFC21

My earlier comment about him being sh*t is untrue. He is an average, maybe slightly above average player. I think he is overhyped by the Irish, like any halfway decent Irish player is, and made out to be better than he actually is. Comparisons to players like Klose and Raul are bordering on ridiculous. While he is somewhat similar in terms of style, they are on a different level to him. If he was really at their level,he would have moved to and stayed at a bigger club. His international record is fantastic, but this doesn't make him at the level of top players such as Klose and Raul. They would probably have scored the same amount, if not more, goals than Robbie if they played in an Irish team.

DeanAustin

MarkSRFC21 wrote: »

My earlier comment about him being sh*t is untrue. He is an average, maybe slightly above average player. I think he is overhyped by the Irish, like any halfway decent Irish player is, and made out to be better than he actually is. Comparisons to players like Klose and Raul are bordering on ridiculous. While he is somewhat similar in terms of style, they are on a different level to him. If he was really at their level,he would have moved to and stayed at a bigger club. His international record is fantastic, but this doesn't make him at the level of top players such as Klose and Raul. They would probably have scored the same amount, if not more, goals than Robbie if they played in an Irish team.

Average?!? Really? Who else would you say is average?

gormdubhgorm

MarkSRFC21 wrote: »

My earlier comment about him being sh*t is untrue. He is an average, maybe slightly above average player. I think he is overhyped by the Irish, like any halfway decent Irish player is, and made out to be better than he actually is. Comparisons to players like Klose and Raul are bordering on ridiculous. While he is somewhat similar in terms of style, they are on a different level to him. If he was really at their level,he would have moved to and stayed at a bigger club. His international record is fantastic, but this doesn't make him at the level of top players such as Klose and Raul. They would probably have scored the same amount, if not more, goals than Robbie if they played in an Irish team.

This thread is about why Robbie Keane is not appreciated at an international level (particularly in his own country) in comparison to his peers like Klose.

Raul had a great club career but a mediocre international career (relative to expectations) only 44 goals in 102 games. Robbie Keane has a mediocre club career and a fantastic international career.

Also do you seriously think that the Irish team would gave provided better chances for goals then the Spanish/Germans?

eagle eye

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This thread is about why Robbie Keane is not appreciated at an international level (particularly in his own country) in comparison to his peers like Klose.

Raul had a great club career but a mediocre international career only 44 goals in 102 games. Robbie Keane has a mediocre club career and a fantastic international career.

Also do you seriously think that the Irish team would gave provided better chances for goals then the Spanish/Germans?

That question has two head, namely more goal opportunities in the latter teams but also less chance of losing your place in the Irish team than a Spanish or German one.

gormdubhgorm

eagle eye wrote: »

That question has two head, namely more goal opportunities in the latter teams but also less chance of losing your place in the Irish team than a Spanish or German one.

Raul was THE striker for Spain from 96-06 until Torres and Villa. (Robbie Keane made his debut in 98 so you may have a point there)

But this point is contradicted by Klose who is the only natural forward in the German squad and made his debut in 97 he is two years older then Robbie Keane. This should give him even more chances then Keane.

Also as an international team is more successful the team plays more matches, so the likes of Spain and Germany would play more games then Ireland. This would give the strikers more chance to play more games, therefore more chances for goals.

From Robbie Keanes wiki page :
He is the joint second highest international scorer among active players—Miroslav Klose leads with 70. He is the fifth highest scoring European in history, alongside Hungary's Puskás and Kocsis and Germany's (Gerd) Müller and Klose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_Keane

simongurnick

Aenaes wrote: »

It's only the Western Conference though. 10 teams then go into play-offs to win the MLS Cup which is the real title.

NFL players don't really celebrate winning Conferences either, it's all about the Superbowl.

It's tradition in the NHL to not even touch the conference final trophy. They put it on a table on the ice and the players just stand behind it and then head off to start the real business of winning the Stanley.

As for Robbie, total legend. Turned out for Ireland within days of the death of his father. I'll never forget being in the stands when he scored in Ibaraki.

MarkSRFC21

I think his goalscoring record can be partially attributed to the fact the he is Ireland's only goal threat at times and the majority of chances are made for him. Compare this to Klose in Germany, where Germany have many other players capable of scoring. I think Klose would have scored a lot more if he was relied upon as Germany's sole provider of goals throughout his career.

WallyGUFC

I don't think some people appreciate just how difficult it must be to score 62 goals at international level. That is a sensational record, and we'll never see his like again in an Irish jersey.

square ball

MarkSRFC21 wrote: »

I think his goalscoring record can be partially attributed to the fact the he is Ireland's only goal threat at times and the majority of chances are made for him. Compare this to Klose in Germany, where Germany have many other players capable of scoring. I think Klose would have scored a lot more if he was relied upon as Germany's sole provider of goals throughout his career.

Would it not be more difficult to score goals in a weaker team? ie: get more attention from opposition and the fact that more games will be losses/draws. Germany would make more chances for their strikers than Ireland would because they have better quality players. Klose benefits from players like Ozil, Muller, Goetze, Reus putting better balls into the box for him to score. He has less tracking back and working the channels because they have more possession.

Not to say that he wouldn't score as many for Ireland but in every game he has more chance of scoring because there is a bigger chance that Germany will beat their opposition by more goals than Ireland.

Would be interested to compare the ratio of goals Robbie and Klose scored relative to what their respective teams scored in the games they have played in?

fryup

because he's a cocky big head (imo)

stiffler123

He has scored so many important goals for us over the years. It's going to be grim times when he retires and we have guys like Long and Walters starting for Ireland.

LuckyLloyd

fryup wrote: »

because he's a cocky big head (imo)

lol, more elegant commentary from the anti Keane side of the debate.

miroslavklose

MarkSRFC21 wrote: »

I think his goalscoring record can be partially attributed to the fact the he is Ireland's only goal threat at times and the majority of chances are made for him. Compare this to Klose in Germany, where Germany have many other players capable of scoring. I think Klose would have scored a lot more if he was relied upon as Germany's sole provider of goals throughout his career.

I think if you looked at Keane's goals at international level, you'd have to say an awful lot of them he makes himself, whereas Klose's are generally created for him, smashing finisher though he is.

Donnielighto

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol, more elegant commentary from the anti Keane side of the debate.

I don't normally agree with LLoyd but on this he's on the money.

Keane's ratings are backed with personal achievements and a brilliant general record that no irish player compares to. Who was better up front for us than him.

Lightbulb Sun

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This thread is about why Robbie Keane is not appreciated at an international level (particularly in his own country) in comparison to his peers like Klose.

Raul had a great club career but a mediocre international career (relative to expectations) only 44 goals in 102 games. Robbie Keane has a mediocre club career and a fantastic international career.

Also do you seriously think that the Irish team would gave provided better chances for goals then the Spanish/Germans?

Wouldn't call his club career mediocre, he was a consistently solid goal scorer at the top level in England.

briany

If I stop to examine why Robbie Keane gets so much stick, I come to this conclusion - it's not that he's a prima donna, it's not that he's a bad footballer(I mean - come on), and it's not even really begrudgery. I think what it is is that every Irish failing over the last 14 years or more has often featured a failure on Ireland's part to really attack the game or to play too conservatively. Consequently, while Keane has scored a lot of goals, he also has spent a lot of his career getting beaten by the offside trap, flapping his arms in protest, or getting closed down and dispossessed by about 2 or 3 defenders while looking for cavalry that never arrived. His failings are often things that the team in general are culpable for but he becomes the focal point, since he's the one expected to do the business. Despite this, he's still gotten a hell of a tally to his name.

There's also a great possibility that Keane is the last goal scorer of a prodigy type level that this country is ever going to produce, so maybe that's reason enough not go too hard on him. Do you want to be the barstool pundit in 20 years time, watching midfielder Tyson Duffy whip in an inept corner, going 'Ah, now Robbie Keane would have put that away', knowing full well you slagged him off something rotten when he was in his prime.