Standing order to non-Irish SEPA account (refused by BoI)

Bob24

I am with Bank of Ireland, and was trying to set-up a standing order to a bank account in France. I am not able to do so because the IBAN field on BoI's website is too short to enter a French IBAN number (they have a few more digits than Irish ones).

I contacted their customer service dept who gave the following answer:

"You cannot set a foreign account up as a Standing Order. You can add it as a payee under manage accounts manage payees."

I was wondering 2 things:
- if there are customers of other banks around, do your bank allow that service? (wondering if it is a BoI thing or other Irish banks are the same)
- is it not a legal requirement as part of the SEPA programme for banks to treat local and foreign SEPA accounts with no distinction in order to force cross border competition between European banks? I.e. are BoI legally allowed to deny standing orders to a foreign SEPA account if they allow it for local accounts?

JTMan

The advise you got from BoI is wrong. There is a legal obligation.

Escalate your query. Perhaps, post it in the Talk to BoI forum on Boards.ie.

Bob24

Thanks, I will definitely do that but wanted to be sure I was correct before escalating.

murphaph

I had to fight Ulster Bank's mortgages department to get them to take a direct debit from a non Irish SEPA account. Get back on to the bank and request a final response letter from them so they know you're taking it further. When I asked for that Ulster relented.

Bob24

Thanks murphaph ... looks like banks are not very eager to have an integrated banking system for the eurozone!

I am surprised these issues are still there several months after the SEPA cutoff date ...

murphaph

Yeah it's really bad form when banks of all institutions don't seem SEPA ready. Was pretty surprised with the resistance I met.

Bob24

For reference is I have asked the question on the talk to forum here: http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057248191

Lets see what feedback BoI gives ...

Bob24

In case someone is interested, Bank of Ireland's legal department came back with an answer saying they don't believe there is any legal obligation for them to offer the service:

Under the SEPA, and associated, Regulations, Bank of Ireland is obliged to ensure that all euro Credit Transfer and Direct Debit payments in the SEPA zone are effected as SEPA payments, and in accordance with the relevant SEPA Scheme Rules, and that the associated charges for equivalent domestic and non-domestic payments are the same. There is no obligation, however, for a bank to provide the same ancillary services in respect of both domestic and non- domestic euro payments, even though they are all now classed as SEPA payments.

Bank of Ireland currently offers the automated Standing Order payment service for domestic credit transfer payments only, and, as such, this automated, recurring, payments functionality is available between accounts held in the Republic of Ireland only. As an alternative, for non-domestic payments, customers can use the Future Dated Payments functionality, available via 365, and can set up a series of credit transfer payments to be made in the future, on dates of their choosing.

I couldn't find anything online which specifically mentions an obligation for standing orders, so they might be right.

It's not a very big deal for me, but as I've already spent a bit of time I dropped a message to the ECB information email address to ask for their confirmation on this matter. If they get back to my I will publish the answer here.

murphaph

Jesus talk about dragged kicking and screaming into SEPA. There is literally no reason BoI don't allow this other than a disdain for their own customers. I'd look for a better bank if it were me.

satguy

Find out which of our Irish banks are SEPA friendly and move your account to it..

Then tell BOI to get lost.

Bob24

murphaph wrote: »

Jesus talk about dragged kicking and screaming into SEPA. There is literally no reason BoI don't allow this other than a disdain for their own customers. I'd look for a better bank if it were me.

satguy wrote: »

Find out which of our Irish banks are SEPA friendly and move your account to it..
Then tell BOI to get lost.

I was actually thinking of moving to PTSB for their free banking and as I tend to prefer using my debit card rather than cash and haven't been very happy since BOI decided to change 20c per transaction. This might seal the deal but will have to check their SEPA compliance first ...

But yeah since BOI support other types of SEPA payments, implementing standing orders is most likely very straight forward. The only two explanations I can think of are that either they couldn't be bothered changing the field length in there system or they see it as a way to prevent full integration to discourage Irish customers from opening accounts abroad in case european banks decides to look for customers beyond their borders.

GerardKeating

satguy wrote: »

Find out which of our Irish banks are SEPA friendly and move your account to it..

Then tell BOI to get lost.

Not actually needed to use/try it, but the AIB site has a section "I want to set up a standing order" and the comment under it is "Set up a regular payment to any account within the SEPA Zone".

So I would assume they allow it, but as mentioned, i have no need to use it.

satguy

I bank with PTSB,, they have those very handy machines in branch that let you lodge cash to your account, and the cash shows up in you balance at once.

If you lodge (i Think) €1.200 per month there are no fees.

Plus the online banking site is so easy to use,, it's great to pay bills with..

Bob24

To close this topic with a definite answer, the ECB got back to me with the name of a person to contact at the central bank of Ireland.

I am pasting that person's full answer below, but in summary the position of the CBI is that that while not doing so is not necessarily following the spirt of SEPA legislation, there is nothing forcing Bank of Ireland to offer SEPA standing orders.

The only two services that must legally be offered are SEPA Credit Transfer (SCT) and the SEPA Direct Debit (SDD).

It doesn't help with my issue, but one pleasant surprise is that I got quick answers from both the ECB and the CBI and I think in both cases the person answering was qualified and helpful.

Full CBI answer:

"Thank you for your e-mail of 16 July concerning SEPA. I am sorry to hear that you are having problems setting up payments by standing order to your bank account in France.

SEPA is based around two payment instruments/payment products – the SEPA Credit Transfer (SCT) and the SEPA Direct Debit (SDD). Strictly speaking, the applicable legislation (principally, EU Regulation 924/2009 and EU Regulation 260/2012) requires banks to be ‘reachable’ for SCT and SDD payments initiated by payers and payees located in any EU member state and to carry out these transactions using common technical standards and business rules. These technical standards and business rules should apply regardless of whereabouts in the Single Euro Payments Area the payer and payee (and their banks) are located.

All of the Irish banks provide these ‘core’ SCT and SDD payment services to their customers; however, they are not required by law to go beyond this, though of course are free to do so if they wish. A standing order would not – in the Central Bank of Ireland’s view – be considered a ‘core’ SEPA payment instrument/payment product. Strictly speaking, Bank of Ireland would not therefore be obliged by law to offer a ‘SEPA standing order’ facility. While non-provision of such a facility could perhaps be considered as not abiding by the spirit of what is intended by the applicable legislation, it does not necessarily constitute a breach of same.

While not as convenient as a standing order, it is my understanding that you could set up a series of ‘future dated’ SCT payments to your French bank account via Bank of Ireland. Failing that, you could of course consider switching your account from Bank of Ireland to an alternative provider who might better be able to meet your requirements."