Best players to have played in the premiership?

8-10

Zico wrote: »

Honestly he slipped my mind. He beats the lot of them.:)

Between Suarez and Tevez for me. Forlan is close to Suarez but goalscoring record lets him down. Yes he won the WC golden boot but then so did the likes of Oleg Salenko and Toto Schillachi and they are not the best in their country, not even close.

He also has 2 european golden boots, Suarez has 1 so far, but overall record isn't better. 36 goals in 112 appearances to Suarez's national record of 40 in 79 (and still a few more years than Forlan left)

It's close, I agree with you, but Suarez shades it on overall goalscoring prowess rather than individual awards for me, but it's a toss up really. Tevez there or thereabouts also.

Below those 3 I think there's a gap then to the likes of Aguero and Crespo and then further to Asprilla and then all the way down to Juan Pablo Angel and Robinho!

Zico

8-10 wrote: »

Between Suarez and Tevez for me. Forlan is close to Suarez but goalscoring record lets him down. Yes he won the WC golden boot but then so did the likes of Oleg Salenko and Toto Schillachi and they are not the best in their country, not even close.

He won the World Cup Golden Ball not Golden Boot.

Messi won it this year.

It's for the best player at the World Cup.

Forlan > Suarez

K-9

Zico wrote: »

He won the World Cup Golden Ball not Golden Boot.

Messi won it this year.

It's for the best player at the World Cup.

Forlan > Suarez

Yeah but he wouldn't have won it without Suarez! See that's how good Luis is, handling the ball won Forlan the Golden Ball. Suarez also was the star player in winning the Copa de America, albeit with an aging Forlan. I like Forlan but Suarez is a bit like Drogba or RVN, there's more to them than stats.

Ken Shamrock

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Lehmann

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Campbell

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Toure

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Lauren

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Cole

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Viera

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Gilberto

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Ljungberg

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Pires

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Bergkamp

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Henry

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8-10

Zico wrote: »

He won the World Cup Golden Ball not Golden Boot.

Messi won it this year.

It's for the best player at the World Cup.

Forlan > Suarez

And Toto Schillachi won it too but he's by no measure Italy's best striker!

Do you honestly believe Lionel Messi was the best player at the World Cup this year?

Larry Wildman

8-10 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe Lionel Messi was the best player at the World Cup this year?

Yes.

It depends how the question is worded.

I don't think that he was the best performing player.

8-10

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Yes.

It depends how the question is worded.

I don't think that he was the best performing player.

But that's what the award is for? The question doesn't extend to how good he is outside the tournament

Larry Wildman

8-10 wrote: »

But that's what the award is for? The question doesn't extend to how good he is outside the tournament

It does when it's worded like that...

Mean Laqueefa

This thread has lost all merit and makes me sad

8-10

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It does when it's worded like that...

I don't get you. You're saying FIFA's wording of the definition of why they award the Golden Ball is so ambiguous that you don't think it's actually about being the best performing player but rather could be interpreted as the best player who happened to play at the tournament?

Am I missing something? OP said it's for the best player at the World Cup, I asked him if he actually believes that Messi was, is it this wording you mean? I think it's clear I was replying to his post asking if the award was merited based on the definition of the award. I have no idea why you'd take that question as being is he the best player that was playing in the tournament

Sure if the Golden Ball meant that then why didn't Ronaldo win it?

Larry Wildman

8-10 wrote: »

I don't get you. You're saying FIFA's wording of the definition of why they award the Golden Ball is so ambiguous that you don't think it's actually about being the best performing player but rather could be interpreted as the best player who happened to play at the tournament?

Am I missing something? OP said it's for the best player at the World Cup, I asked him if he actually believes that Messi was, is it this wording you mean? I think it's clear I was replying to his post asking if the award was merited based on the definition of the award. I have no idea why you'd take that question as being is he the best player that was playing in the tournament

Sure if the Golden Ball meant that then why didn't Ronaldo win it?

I'm not trying to win an argument.

I'm just saying that when someone is asked "who was the best player at the World Cup", the question can be interpreted a couple of ways.

- Who was the best player? Ronaldo or Messi

- Which player performed best?

Oranage2

I think It's very premature to add Suarez to the best players to have played in the Prem, he's had two amazing seasons in the Prem but has done nothing to date on the biggest stage ie world cup, champions league etc.

How many seasons was Torres amongst the best players in the world? Would you consider Torres to be one of the best Prem players ever, no.

Performing at the highest level and longevity is what determines the world's best players and Suarez hasn't either yet though that's not to say he won't achieve those heights in the future.

Iused2likebusts

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think It's very premature to add Suarez to the best players to have played in the Prem, he's had two amazing seasons in the Prem but has done nothing to date on the biggest stage ie world cup, champions league etc.

How many seasons was Torres amongst the best players in the world? Would you consider Torres to be one of the best Prem players ever, no.

Performing at the highest level and longevity is what determines the world's best players and Suarez hasn't either yet though that's not to say he won't achieve those heights in the future.

He has had better world cups than the likes of Rooney Gerrard lampard

Irishcrx

Suarez in the top 3 players in the world? good lord , top 8 maybe but not the top 3 on the back of one good season, players that I think are ahead of him right now.

*Robert Lewandowski
*Marco Reus
*Robben
*Neymar

Oranage2

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He has had better world cups than the likes of Rooney Gerrard lampard

Debatable, has he ever played outside a world cup group stage?

Also the other 3 players have won champions leagues

Iused2likebusts

Oranage2 wrote: »

Debatable, has he ever played outside a world cup group stage?

Also the other 3 players have won champions leagues

2010

8-10

Irishcrx wrote: »

Suarez in the top 3 players in the world? good lord , top 8 maybe but not the top 3 on the back of one good season, players that I think are ahead of him right now.

*Robert Lewandowski
*Marco Reus
*Robben
*Neymar

And only one of those has played in the EPL. What this whole exercise is showing is how few of the best players play in the EPL and also how few of the best players to have played in the EPL are English!

Irishcrx

8-10 wrote: »

And only one of those has played in the EPL. What this whole exercise is showing is how few of the best players play in the EPL and also how few of the best players to have played in the EPL are English!

Ah yeah well that's a fact , the best players right now play in Spain or Germany. It's almost as if the EPL has become a stepping point for players that want to eventually move to Barca/Madrid/Bayern they are the biggest clubs in the world right now.

Why wouldn't they want to move there , lower tax rates , higher income , play with the best players in the world , better weather it's all win win. The EPL is really starting to loose it's appeal and then you have the case of people like James Rodriquez , doesn't want to play against the likes of West Ham and get mowed over every 2 minutes would prefer to play in a division with fluid passing football.

K-9

Oranage2 wrote: »

Debatable, has he ever played outside a world cup group stage?

Also the other 3 players have won champions leagues

You forgot 2010?

That argument is a bit snobbish though, a bit like penalising Best for an accident of birth or Le Tissier because he never moved to a big club. He had a good WC, played a big part in getting Uruguay to a WC S/F, star player in winning the Copa de America, delivered against England while not fully fit and well..............

It's a bit like saying Messi is better than Ronaldo because he plays for a better international team!

Oranage2

K-9 wrote: »

You forgot 2010?

That argument is a bit snobbish though, a bit like penalising Best for an accident of birth or Le Tissier because he never moved to a big club. He had a good WC, played a big part in getting Uruguay to a WC S/F, star player in winning the Copa de America, delivered against England while not fully fit and well..............

It's a bit like saying Messi is better than Ronaldo because he plays for a better international team!

I didn't bring up the world cup, I just said a player has to produce on the biggest stage to be considered one of the greatest.

Suarez hasn't and hasn't even done it against the major teams in England or the uefa league. Not a diss but currently he's not amongst the best ever Prem players, That's not to say he won't get there in 2 - years if he carries on this form.

Iused2likebusts

Oranage2 wrote: »

I didn't bring up the world cup, I just said a player has to produce on the biggest stage to be considered one of the greatest.

Suarez hasn't and hasn't even done it against the major teams in England or the uefa league. Not a diss but currently he's not amongst the best ever Prem players, That's not to say he won't get there in 2 - years if he carries on this form.

You said a player has to produce on the biggest stage and referenced the world cup when it was pointed out to you he had done it in the world cup you twist the argument. This myth about suarez not doing it against the major teams in the league is a good one aswell. Did you watch him against arsenal at anfield ,at the etihad ,either Merseyside derby, his performance at white Hart Lane ,he scored at old trafford etc etc. He wouldn't be the first player to score more goals against the lesser teams in the league. Fact is Suarez has been the main man at all his clubs and for his country has just been transferred to one of the top 2 clubs in the world who generally only sign the best. He has also been the most consistent player in the Pl over a 2 year stretch just under 10 % of the Pl existence but hey he shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion.

Marty McFly

I may be biased but for me it has to be Henry.

Whilst Bale, Ronaldo and Suarez are certainly up there.

They all moved to La Liga after there best seasons were as Henry tore up the league for years and was untouchable during that time only moving to Spain once his best years were behind him.

Skylinehead

Marty McFly wrote: »

I may be biased but for me it has to be Henry.

Whilst Bale, Ronaldo and Suarez are certainly up there.

They all moved to La Liga after there best seasons were as Henry tore up the league for years and was untouchable during that time only moving to Spain once his best years were behind him.

Chelsea put in a world record £50m bid in for him in 2003 too which was insane for the time.

Iused2likebusts

Marty McFly wrote: »

I may be biased but for me it has to be Henry.

Whilst Bale, Ronaldo and Suarez are certainly up there.

They all moved to La Liga after there best seasons were as Henry tore up the league for years and was untouchable during that time only moving to Spain once his best years were behind him.

I'd tend to agree with you

Zico

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He has also been the most consistent player in the Pl over a 2 year stretch just under 10 % of the Pl existence but hey he shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion.

He's been consistently suspended for biting players in the last two seasons. RVP was the best player in the Premier League last year and he didn't have the luxury of a few months extra holiday and no tough European football.

Dalian Atkinson was the Premier League's best striker for longer than Luis Suarez.

Oranage2

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

You said a player has to produce on the biggest stage and referenced the world cup when it was pointed out to you he had done it in the world cup you twist the argument. This myth about suarez not doing it against the major teams in the league is a good one aswell. Did you watch him against arsenal at anfield ,at the etihad ,either Merseyside derby, his performance at white Hart Lane ,he scored at old trafford etc etc. He wouldn't be the first player to score more goals against the lesser teams in the league. Fact is Suarez has been the main man at all his clubs and for his country has just been transferred to one of the top 2 clubs in the world who generally only sign the best. He has also been the most consistent player in the Pl over a 2 year stretch just under 10 % of the Pl existence but hey he shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion.

Many players have had good world cup, doesn't make them one of the greats, many players have ripped up the premiership for a season or two and they wouldn't be considered one of the greats, many players have moved to Barcelona and they too wouldn't be considered one of the greats.

Suarez at this point in time isn't one of the greats, give I've another season or 2 then fine, right now he's probably the third best player in the world, we'll see where he is next season.

K-9

Zico wrote: »

He's been consistently suspended for biting players in the last two seasons. RVP was the best player in the Premier League last year and he didn't have the luxury of a few months extra holiday and no tough European football.

Dalian Atkinson was the Premier League's best striker for longer than Luis Suarez.

Ah, you went a little too far that time.

Milkers

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think It's very premature to add Suarez to the best players to have played in the Prem, he's had two amazing seasons in the Prem but has done nothing to date on the biggest stage ie world cup, champions league etc.

This is incorrect. There is no doubt that to the majority of observers Suarez's performances at the 2010 and 2014 World Cups have only served to enhance his reputation as a player. As for the question clearly stated in the OP (and subsequently ignored by most replies), Cristiano Ronaldo is clearly top of the pile. Some of the other players who had remarkable PL careers and played international football for England (e.g. Shearer) are harder to place in the wider context. On reflection there are a surprisingly small number of players who would be nailed-on Top 3 in the world candidates either before, during or after their time in England.

Iused2likebusts

Zico wrote: »

He's been consistently suspended for biting players in the last two seasons. RVP was the best player in the Premier League last year and he didn't have the luxury of a few months extra holiday and no tough European football.

Dalian Atkinson was the Premier League's best striker for longer than Luis Suarez.

unlike suarez im not even going to bother biting on that one;)

Iused2likebusts

Oranage2 wrote: »

Many players have had good world cup, doesn't make them one of the greats, many players have ripped up the premiership for a season or two and they wouldn't be considered one of the greats, many players have moved to Barcelona and they too wouldn't be considered one of the greats.

Suarez at this point in time isn't one of the greats, give I've another season or 2 then fine, right now he's probably the third best player in the world, we'll see where he is next season.

How many of those many players has done all three though.

uch

Francis Benali - Southampton

Y2KBOS86

Irishcrx wrote: »

Suarez in the top 3 players in the world? good lord , top 8 maybe but not the top 3 on the back of one good season, players that I think are ahead of him right now.

*Robert Lewandowski
*Marco Reus
*Robben
*Neymar

Lewandowski

Ever see him play for Poland?

He's nothing special at all, way below Suarez.

bmcc10

Goodness every football thread wouldn't be complete without a Suarez argument, Dare you disagree about Chewy, Anywho my favourites are Bergkamp and Scholes best player over the longer period Henry for me.

764dak

Irishcrx wrote: »

Ah yeah well that's a fact , the best players right now play in Spain or Germany. It's almost as if the EPL has become a stepping point for players that want to eventually move to Barca/Madrid/Bayern they are the biggest clubs in the world right now.

Why wouldn't they want to move there , lower tax rates , higher income , play with the best players in the world , better weather it's all win win. The EPL is really starting to loose it's appeal and then you have the case of people like James Rodriquez , doesn't want to play against the likes of West Ham and get mowed over every 2 minutes would prefer to play in a division with fluid passing football.

2013/14 Passes Per Game

Premier League: 950.1
Liga BBVA: 882.9

2013/14 Pass Types

Crosses
Premier League: 4.536%
Liga BBVA: 4.95%

Through Balls
Premier League: 0.358%
Liga BBVA: 0.442%

Long Balls
Premier League: 13.272%
Liga BBVA: 14.611%

Short Passes
Premier League: 81.833%
Liga BBVA: 80%


2013/14 Tackles and Fouls

Tackles per Game
Premier League: 38.39
Liga BBVA: 41.33

Fouls per Game
Premier League: 21.69
Liga BBVA: 27.94


West Ham United's rank in the Premier League
Tackles: 19th
Fouls: 13th

I used data from whoscored.com.