Registration plate numbers

sogood

So why are some old "vintage/classic" cars registered on ZV plates and some are numbered as in; 78 D 1234? Is there a difference or advantage of having one type over the other?

Thanks.

carchaeologist

Personal preference. You can chose one or the other.
No advantage really having one or the other as the powers that be have made both types equally as retarded looking as each other.
But, saying that if i HAD to choose, it would be the ZV.

jca

carchaeologist wrote: »

Personal preference. You can chose one or the other.
No advantage really having one or the other as the powers that be have made both types equally as retarded looking as each other.
But, saying that if i HAD to choose, it would be the ZV.

As you think both plate types are retarded as you put it,what system would you suggest? I think something like the old three letter,three number layout would be much nicer with maybe the year in small digits where that stupid county in Irish is at the moment. The year thing could be optional.

mb1725

I think it was a shame that they didn't use all the ZV options and make them more age related :

kev1.3s

mb1725 wrote: »

I think it was a shame that they didn't use all the ZV options and make them more age related :

That would be way too simple.

Silvera

'AZV' has already been used afaik....but I know where you are coming from.

I've suggested this idea many times before (i.e. reverse the current ZV system as follows) -

100 ZV - 999 ZV (vehicles up to 1920)
1000 ZV - 9999 ZV (vehicles 1921 - 1960)
ZVA 100 - ZVA 999
ZVB 100 - ZVB 999
ZVC 100 - ZVC 999
etc etc etc (for vehicles 1961 - 1986)

(Numbers 1 ZV - 99 ZV, ZVA 1 - ZVA 99, etc etc could be reserved and sold
'auction style' with the proceeds going to charity, e.g. road accident victims)

kev1.3s

Silvera wrote: »

'AZV' has already been used afaik....but I know where you are coming from.

I've suggested this idea many times before (i.e. reverse the current ZV system as follows) -

100 ZV - 999 ZV (vehicles up to 1920)
1000 ZV - 9999 ZV (vehicles 1921 - 1960)
ZVA 100 - ZVA 999
ZVB 100 - ZVB 999
ZVC 100 - ZVC 999
etc etc etc (for vehicles 1961 - 1986)

(Numbers 1 ZV - 99 ZV, ZVA 1 - ZVA 99, etc etc could be reserved and sold
'auction style' with the proceeds going to charity, e.g. road accident victims)

Or the troika, which is where all the money goes.

Means Of Escape

carchaeologist wrote: »

Personal preference. You can chose one or the other.
No advantage really having one or the other as the powers that be have made both types equally as retarded looking as each other.
But, saying that if i HAD to choose, it would be the ZV.

Not true
Best select a year/county plate first then if you tire of it you can change to zv plate
Moreover if you wish to sell the car the buyer can make a choice to change to zv from a year plate giving them an option .
You cannot change a zv plate to a county/year plate .

Dades

Yeah, I'm keeping my 83 D plate so when I sell her on the new keeper can decide what style to have. If it wasn't for the stupid new long numbers I'd probably have switched by now.

jca

Silvera wrote: »

'AZV' has already been used afaik....but I know where you are coming from.

I've suggested this idea many times before (i.e. reverse the current ZV system as follows) -

100 ZV - 999 ZV (vehicles up to 1920)
1000 ZV - 9999 ZV (vehicles 1921 - 1960)
ZVA 100 - ZVA 999
ZVB 100 - ZVB 999
ZVC 100 - ZVC 999
etc etc etc (for vehicles 1961 - 1986)

(Numbers 1 ZV - 99 ZV, ZVA 1 - ZVA 99, etc etc could be reserved and sold
'auction style' with the proceeds going to charity, e.g. road accident victims)

I presume you mean AZV 100 - AZV- 999 etc.
I don't agree with this auctioning plates, a number plate is a number plate not a fashion accessory.

Silvera

No....AZV etc is already allocated.

I'm suggesting ZVA etc etc

jca

Silvera wrote: »

No....AZV etc is already allocated.

I'm suggesting ZVA etc etc

Complete nonsense then. You obviously have no clue as to how the original registration system worked:mad: I wonder why I bother sometimes...

Silvera

Who appointed you as 'registration number expert'?!

I know exactly how the original registration system worked. I could sit down all night - if I was so inclined - and discuss the finer details of the original 1903 vehicle registration series.

In an ideal world unissued old series registrations would now be issued as 'vintage plates'. In reality this seems unlikely to ever happen. However the powers-that-be may be open to tweeking the current ZV series.

In that event, the system I suggest is in keeping with the old series plates (a maximum of six digits) and much better than the 7-digit ZV, and (up to) 9-digit 'year' plates, currently allocated to vintage vehicles.

jca

Silvera wrote: »

Who appointed you as 'registration number expert'?!

I know exactly how the original registration system worked. I could sit down all night - if I was so inclined - and discuss the finer details of the original 1903 vehicle registration series.

In an ideal world unissued old series registrations would now be issued as 'vintage plates'. In reality this seems unlikely to ever happen. However the powers-that-be may be open to tweeking the current ZV series.

In that event, the system I suggest is in keeping with the old series plates (a maximum of six digits) and much better than the 7-digit ZV, and (up to) 9-digit 'year' plates, currently allocated to vintage vehicles.

It's a ZV based system not VA then VB then VC with a Z thrown on the front for good measure.... You sure you know how the old system worked? Or are you the pub bore about it? You know the type, as soon as you start to ask the questions they either shout at you or stomp off in a sulk, kind of a modern day version of fight or flight. VA, VB, VC etc. were never issued in Ireland for starters. Don't be worrying yourself about the "finer details" as you put it. It's better to start at first principles.

Silvera

I know it's a 'ZV' system and that letters in the 1903-1986 series were added as prefixes. However - as I previously stated - AZV, etc etc is already allocated. Therefore, why not add the serial letter(s) as a suffix? In that way it is still clearly a 'ZV' plate but no longer the inappropriate (and much disliked) current 'ZV' (7-digit) system.

While my suggested system is not in keeping with the exact order of prefixed letters of the 1903-1986 series, it is much better and more appropriate than the current ZV mess.

As regards the "pub bore', shouting, sulking, stomping off" etc... with the comment you made earlier I believe you fit neatly into that category, i.e unable to carry out a calm reasoned discussion on this discussion forum without lashing out when you dont agree.

hi5

ZV and old registrations have been discussed to death on this forum and most of the contributors do know their stuff including Silvera!

Started by Silvera almost 10 years ago
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2306102

jca

Silvera wrote: »

I know it's a 'ZV' system and that letters in the 1903-1986 series were added as prefixes. However - as I previously stated - AZV, etc etc is already allocated. Therefore, why not add the serial letter(s) as a suffix? In that way it is still clearly a 'ZV' plate but no longer the inappropriate (and much disliked) current 'ZV' (7-digit) system.

While my suggested system is not in keeping with the exact order of prefixed letters of the 1903-1986 series, it is much better and more appropriate than the current ZV mess.

As regards the "pub bore', shouting, sulking, stomping off" etc... with the comment you made earlier I believe you fit neatly into that category, i.e unable to carry out a calm reasoned discussion on this discussion forum without lashing out when you dont agree.

I'm sorry if you think I was lashing out I just get a bit hot under the collar when it comes to registrations. There's probably no point in any of these discussions as our esteemed government seem more worried about an ageing country star than anything else. A reversed series of unused letters such as Leitrim would be much nicer than what's in place now, *** AIT, onwards etc. There are plenty of unused letters in the system.

Silvera

jca wrote: »

I'm sorry if you think I was lashing out I just get a bit hot under the collar when it comes to registrations. There's probably no point in any of these discussions as our esteemed government seem more worried about an ageing country star than anything else. A reversed series of unused letters such as Leitrim would be much nicer than what's in place now, *** AIT, onwards etc. There are plenty of unused letters in the system.

Apology accepted. It's good that you are as 'passionate' about registrations as I - and many other posters here - are!;)

The Leitrim idea is a good one, as is the use of unissued old series plates. I did some rough calculations many years ago and estimate that there are in the region of 900,000 old series unissued registration numbers. My first preference would also be for these plates to now be issued as 'vintage registrations'. Some people in the vintage community argue against it as they believe (rightly or wrongly) that it would cause confusion and perhaps 'dilute' the value of existing vehicles in circulation with old series plates.

From sources I have, I believe the IVVCC have made (or will make?) some moves towards the powers-that-be with regards to introducing a better 'vintage registration' series than the current ZV plates. I do not know how far these moves have yet progressed.

To be honest, if nothing is done I believe that ZV plates will be allowed to continue over the 100,000 mark. If you read any state literature regarding registrations, ZV and ZZ plates are nearly always mentioned in the same sentence or paragraph. As ZZ plates exceeded the 100,000 mark many years ago, I believe that ZV plates will also be allowed to continue over the 100,000 figure if nothing changes in the meantime (i.e. another batch of ZV plates will be issued to each county, as with the 2 x previously-issued ZV series blocks of numbers).

While not my first choice, I believe my 'suffix ZV' series would be a good compromise. At the very least it will look like appropriate, and may even stop a lot of the current (sometime blatant!) plate swopping/ringing currently taking place in the vintage car scene!

My suggested system (reverse the current ZV system for vehicles up to 1960) as follows -

100 ZV - 999 ZV (vehicles up to 1920)
1000 ZV - 9999 ZV (vehicles 1921 - 1960)

And introduce suffix plates for vehicles 1961-1986 -

ZVA 100 - ZVA 999
ZVB 100 - ZVB 999
ZVC 100 - ZVC 999
etc etc etc (vehicles 1961 - 1986)

jca

What about abandoning the zv system completely and using an unused series such as "IT". I don't know if IT even made it as far as being IT reversed, if not, it would be ideal.

swarlb

Are you not confusing the issue, by overthinking the whole thing. It seems to me the main cause for 'concern' is how the plate 'looks' rather than what it means.
And this only applies to cars pre 1987, anything post '87 will always 'look' correct.
What is the point is importing a car, and giving it a 'makey up' number that looks ok (sort of) rather than a proper age related plate, according to county and year.
Cars from whatever year, prior to 1987, that don't exist anymore, should simply have their registration numbers re-issued, and be done with it.

jca

swarlb wrote: »

Are you not confusing the issue, by overthinking the whole thing. It seems to me the main cause for 'concern' is how the plate 'looks' rather than what it means.
And this only applies to cars pre 1987, anything post '87 will always 'look' correct.
What is the point is importing a car, and giving it a 'makey up' number that looks ok (sort of) rather than a proper age related plate, according to county and year.
Cars from whatever year, prior to 1987, that don't exist anymore, should simply have their registration numbers re-issued, and be done with it.

Do you mean if I import a 1964 car into Wexford I should get a FMI number? That would be the ideal solution in a ideal world dealing with intelligent/interested powers that be. Can never see that happening as the system would be wide open to forging/ swapping plates which they're trying to stamp out. A dedicated three letter, three number, period looking system would be probably the easiest solution.

swarlb

jca wrote: »

Do you mean if I import a 1964 car into Wexford I should get a FMI number? That would be the ideal solution in a ideal world dealing with intelligent/interested powers that be. Can never see that happening as the system would be wide open to forging/ swapping plates which they're trying to stamp out. A dedicated three letter, three number, period looking system would be probably the easiest solution.

It's not as if there is tens of thousands of cars being imported, and a huge 'black market' trade in number plate related crime.
I honestly could not care less what the number plate was, for me it's the car that matters.
How hard is it to have a database of all the registration numbers, ever issued, and beside each number is a 'flag'...red if the plate is 'available' and 'green' if the car is taxed or SORDed....or maybe it is difficult.
The UK, with it's many many millions of more cars and plates ever issued seem to be able to do it, why cannot we, with a possible total population of 'old cars' less than you'd fit in all of Dublin Airports carparks....

jca

swarlb wrote: »

It's not as if there is tens of thousands of cars being imported, and a huge 'black market' trade in number plate related crime.
I honestly could not care less what the number plate was, for me it's the car that matters.
How hard is it to have a database of all the registration numbers, ever issued, and beside each number is a 'flag'...red if the plate is 'available' and 'green' if the car is taxed or SORDed....or maybe it is difficult.
The UK, with it's many many millions of more cars and plates ever issued seem to be able to do it, why cannot we, with a possible total population of 'old cars' less than you'd fit in all of Dublin Airports carparks....

You would be surprised the amount of number plate swapping that goes on especially with motorbikes. The uk have a big advantage on us because years ago they centralised all driving related administration to Swansea to form the DVLA. It was a great move as everything was so much easier to keep track of. Irish vehicle registration would have to go the same way to have any chance of starting a proper age related registration system. Our system as it stands with numbers being allocated by individual county councils just wouldn't be suitable.

Type 17

Saw a useful comparison at a show last weekend, from L-R:



4-digit ZV from Dublin, before Dec 2011
Post-2011 year/county reg (note how different text has to be chosen to accommodate the obscene amount of characters)
Original 1950's Dublin reg
Pre-2011 (pre 2001, in fact) year/county reg

Anyone who says that it's just a reg, and doesn't affect the overall look of the car, is probably driving an Almera (or should be).

PS: Although Silvera's ZVA, ZVB plan shows great lateral thinking, and would provide much needed extra combinations, I can't see it being adopted, as the DVLA/DVLNI are likely to object, as VA - VZ are assigned to various counties in the UK & NI.

A better goal to push for would be the re-issuing all old Irish combinations after a period of allowing people to claim reg's of off-the-road cars that haven't been taxed since before '93.
There would be no problem with people passing off imports as original Irish cars, as the registration records and documents would have an "imported vehicle - re-issued index mark" entry.

swarlb

Type 17 wrote: »

Saw a useful comparison at a show last weekend, from L-R:



4-digit ZV from Dublin, before Dec 2011
Post-2011 year/county reg (note how different text has to be chosen to accommodate the obscene amount of characters)
Original 1950's Dublin reg
Pre-2011 (pre 2001, in fact) year/county reg

Anyone who says that it's just a reg, and doesn't affect the overall look of the car, is probably driving an Almera (or should be).

PS: Although Silvera's ZVA, ZVB plan shows great lateral thinking, and would provide much needed extra combinations, I can't see it being adopted, as the DVLA/DVLNI are likely to object, as VA - VZ are assigned to various counties in the UK & NI.

A better goal to push for would be the re-issuing all old Irish combinations after a period of allowing people to claim reg's of off-the-road cars that haven't been taxed since before '93.
There would be no problem with people passing off imports as original Irish cars, as the registration records and documents would have an "imported vehicle - re-issued index mark" entry.

What I see in that photo is 4 MG's, all good looking cars. As usual, we are looking at things from an Irish perspective (influenced by a UK perspective). And as such we are focussing on the mundane, rather than what matters.
If those 4 cars were in Japan, or Australia, or America or Switzerland, they would have completely different 'looking' plates, period designation or not, but the important thing would be the actual car itself.
And, no, I don't have an Almera.

Type 17

Yes but if it was Japan, Australia, America of Switzerland (or Germany, or the UK), the three imported cars would not have inferior plates to the original one and, whether they were the same as modern car reg's in their respective countries, or all old ones, like Historischer plates (Germany), or Historic Vehicle plates (most US states), they would all be from the same series, and have a reasonable amount of characters in the sequence.

You can call it mundane, but if you're showing a car, the devil is in the detail…

corktina

Type 17 wrote: »

Saw a useful comparison at a show last weekend, from L-R:



4-digit ZV from Dublin, before Dec 2011
Post-2011 year/county reg (note how different text has to be chosen to accommodate the obscene amount of characters)
Original 1950's Dublin reg
Pre-2011 (pre 2001, in fact) year/county reg

Anyone who says that it's just a reg, and doesn't affect the overall look of the car, is probably driving an Almera (or should be).

PS: Although Silvera's ZVA, ZVB plan shows great lateral thinking, and would provide much needed extra combinations, I can't see it being adopted, as the DVLA/DVLNI are likely to object, as VA - VZ are assigned to various counties in the UK & NI.

A better goal to push for would be the re-issuing all old Irish combinations after a period of allowing people to claim reg's of off-the-road cars that haven't been taxed since before '93.
There would be no problem with people passing off imports as original Irish cars, as the registration records and documents would have an "imported vehicle - re-issued index mark" entry.

f all to do with the DVLA/DVLNI.... in any case the DVLA now issue the previously Ireland only letters on their current plates

Type 17

corktina wrote: »

f all to do with the DVLA/DVLNI.... in any case the DVLA now issue the previously Ireland only letters on their current plates

Well, if it wouldn't matter, then the guys in Shannon can issue everything from A1 to Y999 YYY, and say that they are "new" ROI combinations - hey, I could get RNK 785R back for my '76 Merc :P

PS: The appearance of letter sequences like AZJ in post-2001 UK reg's doesn't mean that the DVLA are issuing old Irish combinations - in a plate like AB04 AZJ, the AB is the locator, the 04 is the date, and the AZJ is just the serial, like the 123 in 123 AZJ.

corktina

there is no sound reason for not letting you have whatever number letter combo you want and a sound reason (dosh) for allowing it.

I didn't say they were issueing Irish numbers, just using letters such as Z now that were reserved for Irish use before

jca

corktina wrote: »

there is no sound reason for not letting you have whatever number letter combo you want and a sound reason (dosh) for allowing it.

I didn't say they were issueing Irish numbers, just using letters such as Z now that were reserved for Irish use before

There is a sound reason for not allowing a free for all registration system. It's Ireland, enough said, and, believe it or not but classic imports can do hit and runs too. Until the system is centralised nothing can be done.

Type 17

corktina wrote: »

there is no sound reason for not letting you have whatever number letter combo you want and a sound reason (dosh) for allowing it.

Agreed.

jca wrote: »

There is a sound reason for not allowing a free for all registration system. It's Ireland, enough said, and, believe it or not but classic imports can do hit and runs too. Until the system is centralised nothing can be done.

Is it not centralised now? - what do they have in Shannon, if not a central database? Also, how do the four Dublin local authorities give out reg's from the same pool of D reg's? - it must be centralised.

Not sure if it is, just asking...