relationship

Lucy91

Hi All, For the past four years I have been in a relationship with an muslim man. Firstly, I want to put it out there that I am well aware that relationships are forbidden in Islam. Overall my relationship with my Muslim boyfriend has been very good! I love him very much and likewise I know he feels the same way about me. I know his parents are aware of my existence as they have seen me before however they refuse to have me over to their house and refuse to get to know me. I know my relationship with my boyfriend is very good at the moment but I am just wondering if there will be any future? Will his parents ever accept me?

Tom Dunne

Lucy91 wrote: »

I want to put it out there that I am well aware that relationships are forbidden in Islam.

I find this very difficult to accept. Are you sure you are not mixing up cultural beliefs with religious doctrine?

ElleEm

Only you know if there is a future with your boyfriend.
What does he say about it? Does he care that his parents don't accept you?
I have little experience of this sort of situation, but if your relationship with your boyfriend has lasted four years, and is going well, then his parents have had little impact already.

confusedquark

Lucy91 wrote: »

Hi All, For the past four years I have been in a relationship with an muslim man. Firstly, I want to put it out there that I am well aware that relationships are forbidden in Islam. Overall my relationship with my Muslim boyfriend has been very good! I love him very much and likewise I know he feels the same way about me. I know his parents are aware of my existence as they have seen me before however they refuse to have me over to their house and refuse to get to know me. I know my relationship with my boyfriend is very good at the moment but I am just wondering if there will be any future? Will his parents ever accept me?

Howdy, welcome to the forum. A lot depends on your other half and what his thoughts are. Just because he's a Muslim, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's a practising Muslim, and the issue of any religious/cultural difference might not come into it. Even if he is a practising Muslim, Islamically men are allowed to marry Christians and Jews, so that won't necessarily be a barrier either. Some guys will still prefer their partner to convert before they would consider a marriage (either for religious reasons or to appease their parents), so you should approach the topic with him at some point to see exactly where he stands if ye are getting serious. As the previous poster said, it also will depend on how much he cares about what his parents say.

His parents accepting you will be another story, and it very much depends on their individual personalities/philosophies. In many Muslim cultures (as distinct from the religion), Muslim men marrying non-Muslim girls can be seen as a disgrace (even Muslim men marrying Muslims girls from a different country, region or caste is seen as a disgrace in some cultures - so it's not always a religion issue), so his parents' views will be influenced by their extended communities. They might accept you only if you convert, they might not accept you even if you do convert, and all that said, they might eventually come around and accept things for what they are even if you don't. It very much depends on how they think - I'm sure your boyfriend would have a pretty good idea about whether they'll accept you or not, so you could ask him once you know he stands himself. I'll also add that if it does come to it, don't convert just for the sake of the relationship or to appease his parents. You should be true to yourself as well, and decisions taken for other means will often come back to bite you.

confusedquark

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I find this very difficult to accept. Are you sure you are not mixing up cultural beliefs with religious doctrine?

She's right. Whilst there's a lot of culture in there as well, pre-marital physical relationships are forbidden in Islam. Non-physical relationships whilst not strictly forbidden are disliked because they don't always stay non-physical, especially if the couple spend time alone (hence chaperones are generally present when men and women meet to get to know one another prior to deciding about marriage). I know in many parts of the middle east that are becoming more liberal, pre-marital relationships are becoming more common, but it's not something Islam approves of.

JohnBee

Whatever happens I feel it is important to stay true to who you are as a person Lucy.no woman should have to change who she is for any man.

niamhstokes

Lucy91 wrote: »

Hi All, For the past four years I have been in a relationship with an muslim man. Firstly, I want to put it out there that I am well aware that relationships are forbidden in Islam. Overall my relationship with my Muslim boyfriend has been very good! I love him very much and likewise I know he feels the same way about me. I know his parents are aware of my existence as they have seen me before however they refuse to have me over to their house and refuse to get to know me. I know my relationship with my boyfriend is very good at the moment but I am just wondering if there will be any future? Will his parents ever accept me?

Hi Lucy

usually the muslim boyfriend pretend they aren't religious, THEN when/if u get married they basically CHANGE and keep 'inviting you to islam', constantly nagging you to convert and they are very good at twisting Christianity and the Bible so you will end up thinking islam is the truth even though archaeology has proven its entire origins are pagan/fake.

Also the muslim husband MUST raise his children muslim just to warn u. The best thing would be for him to convert to Christianity, if u were ever going to get married ,would solve alot of problems for ye in the future so maybe get him to call into the church for lessons and stuff , thats IF he is into all that lol

Best of luck

Snake

niamhstokes wrote: »

Hi Lucy

usually the muslim boyfriend pretend they aren't religious, THEN when/if u get married they basically CHANGE and keep 'inviting you to islam', constantly nagging you to convert and they are very good at twisting Christianity and the Bible so you will end up thinking islam is the truth even though archaeology has proven its entire origins are pagan/fake.

Also the muslim husband MUST raise his children muslim just to warn u. The best thing would be for him to convert to Christianity, if u were ever going to get married ,would solve alot of problems for ye in the future so maybe get him to call into the church for lessons and stuff , thats IF he is into all that lol

Best of luck

Why should he have to abandon what he believes?

niamhstokes

Snake wrote: »

Why should he have to abandon what he believes?

Well it's up to him to believe in islam if he wants but if he studies the archaoelogical studies on its pagan origins, he'll see its fake anyway.

What i mean is , in future, seeing as it's Ireland, it'd be handier too as the kids can be Catholic and go to Catholic schools, do the first Holy Communion and Confirmation etc.. etc.. makes more sense if they are living here.

Tom Dunne

niamhstokes wrote: »

usually the muslim boyfriend pretend they aren't religious, THEN when/if u get married they basically CHANGE and keep 'inviting you to islam', constantly nagging you to convert and they are very good at twisting Christianity and the Bible so you will end up thinking islam is the truth even though archaeology has proven its entire origins are pagan/fake.

Also the muslim husband MUST raise his children muslim just to warn u. The best thing would be for him to convert to Christianity, if u were ever going to get married ,would solve alot of problems for ye in the future so maybe get him to call into the church for lessons and stuff , thats IF he is into all that lol

Best of luck

There are so many things so wrong with the above post, that I simply do not know where to begin.

Let's start at the gross generalisation. I remind you that the charter of this forum expressly forbids gross generalisations. I also remind you that basic cop on suggests a person does not make gross generalisations about anything.

niamhstokes wrote: »

even though archaeology has proven its entire origins are pagan/fake.

I have to hand it to you, this is a new one to me. Please elaborate. (oh, and keep it factual - see my previous point).

niamhstokes wrote: »

Also the muslim husband MUST raise his children muslim just to warn u.

Again again, rubbish. I know of at least two families where the mother is Irish and the father Muslim and the kids are not raised Muslim.

niamhstokes wrote: »

The best thing would be for him to convert to Christianity, if u were ever going to get married ,would solve alot of problems for ye in the future so maybe get him to call into the church for lessons and stuff , thats IF he is into all that.

So if the woman converts to Islam, it will be a problem, but if the man converts to Christianity, it won't? Do you see any flaw in your logic?

niamhstokes

I have to hand it to you, this is a new one to me. Please elaborate. (oh, and keep it factual - see my previous point).


ARCHAEOLOGICAL STUDIES HAVE PROVEN ISLAM HAS PAGAN ORIGINS AND RITUALS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE 5 PRAYERS PER DAY AND HOW THEY ARE TIMED ARE A DIRECT COPY OF PAGAN ARAB WORSHIP. THE CONCEPT OF ALLAH/GOD IN QUR'AN IS BASED UPON 2 PAGAN ARAB GODS, SIMPLY REBRANDED SO IT APPEARS TO BE ABRAHAMIC. RAMADAN HAS PAGAN ORIGINS IN INDIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST... LOTS AND LOTS. ISLAM IS RIDDLED WITH PAGANISM AND ISN'T FROM GOD AND NEVER WAS. NOT TO MENTION THE SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES REFUTED BY REAL SCIENTISTS CONSTANTLY.


Again again, rubbish. I know of at least two families where the mother is Irish and the father Muslim and the kids are not raised Muslim.
IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY CAN'T A MUSLIM WOMAN MARRY A NON MUSLIM MAN? AS IN ISLAM AMONG THE ROLES OF THE HUSBAND IS THE RELIGION OF THE CHILDREN AND THEY FEAR IF A MUSLIM WOMAN DOESNT MARRY A MUSLIM MAN, THE CHILDREN WILL NOT BE MUSLIM. THIS IS WHY MUSLIM WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MARRY CHRISTIAN MEN AT ALL. WHEREAS A MUSLIM MAN CAN MARRY A MUSLIM, A JEW OR A CHRISTIAN. SO MUCH FOR EQUALITY THERE OR AS MUSLIMS WOULD ANSWER 'MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL THEY ARE DIFFERENT'.



So if the woman converts to Islam, it will be a problem, but if the man converts to Christianity, it won't? Do you see any flaw in your logic?[/QUOTE]

OBVIOUSLY AS EVERYONE IS CATHOLIC HERE YES IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE AND IT AVOIDS THE DANGER THE CHILDREN WOULD BE RAISED AS MUSLIMS OR THE WIFE WOULD BE TRICKED INTO BELIEVING THE LIKES OF JOSHUA EVANS, DEEDAT ETC... TAKE ON TWISTING CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY AND BLATANTLY LYING ABOUT THE HOLY BIBLE IN ORDER TO WIN CONVERTS FOR A RELIGION THAT DOESN'T EVEN COME FROM GOD. BY ENTERING ISLAM PEOPLE LEAVE GOD. I DONT THINK PEOPLE REALISE HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes wrote: »

OBVIOUSLY AS EVERYONE IS CATHOLIC HERE YES IT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE...

Everyone here is not Catholic.

Snake

niamhstokes wrote: »

TAKE ON TWISTING CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY AND BLATANTLY LYING ABOUT THE HOLY BIBLE IN ORDER TO WIN CONVERTS FOR A RELIGION THAT DOESN'T EVEN COME FROM GOD. BY ENTERING ISLAM PEOPLE LEAVE GOD. I DONT THINK PEOPLE REALISE HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS

So you're whole logic is based on the fact you're a Christian and everyone else should be as well? If you can prove islam is fake, why don't you prove God is real. Not saying I don't believe there is a god but you're so damn sure islam is a fake then prove Christianity isn't.

Tom Dunne

niamhstokes wrote: »

ARCHAEOLOGICAL STUDIES HAVE PROVEN ISLAM HAS PAGAN ORIGINS AND RITUALS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE 5 PRAYERS PER DAY AND HOW THEY ARE TIMED ARE A DIRECT COPY OF PAGAN ARAB WORSHIP. THE CONCEPT OF ALLAH/GOD IN QUR'AN IS BASED UPON 2 PAGAN ARAB GODS, SIMPLY REBRANDED SO IT APPEARS TO BE ABRAHAMIC. RAMADAN HAS PAGAN ORIGINS IN INDIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST... LOTS AND LOTS. ISLAM IS RIDDLED WITH PAGANISM AND ISN'T FROM GOD AND NEVER WAS. NOT TO MENTION THE SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES REFUTED BY REAL SCIENTISTS CONSTANTLY.

Please turn off caps lock, it looks like you are shouting.

Anyway, can you provide evidence of these archaeological studies? I have access to many academic journals through my own university, so I should have no trouble finding them. Oh, and please don't just post some lunatic, right-wing, nut-job websites, we have enough of them right here.

IF THIS IS THE CASE, WHY CAN'T A MUSLIM WOMAN MARRY A NON MUSLIM MAN?

There's no "if this is the case". I can provide you the name and telephone numbers of at least two Irish women married to Muslim men. So please don't accuse me of lying.

OBVIOUSLY AS EVERYONE IS CATHOLIC

Why in the name of God would you say something like that? On what evidence are you basing this? Again, I refer you to my previous comment on gross generalisations.

BY ENTERING ISLAM PEOPLE LEAVE GOD. I DONT THINK PEOPLE REALISE HOW DANGEROUS THAT IS

Ah, now we are getting to the truth of the matter.

Just curious, have you ever been to a Muslim country? Or do you get all your information on Islam from the Daily Star and Sky News?

niamhstokes

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Please turn off caps lock, it looks like you are shouting.

Anyway, can you provide evidence of these archaeological studies? I have access to many academic journals through my own university, so I should have no trouble finding them. Oh, and please don't just post some lunatic, right-wing, nut-job websites, we have enough of them right here.



There's no "if this is the case". I can provide you the name and telephone numbers of at least two Irish women married to Muslim men. So please don't accuse me of lying.





Why in the name of God would you say something like that? On what evidence are you basing this? Again, I refer you to my previous comment on gross generalisations.



Ah, now we are getting to the truth of the matter.

Just curious, have you ever been to a Muslim country? Or do you get all your information on Islam from the Daily Star and Sky News?

Yeah sorry about the caps, i don't know how to use quotes on this yet, as im just new, so was typing in block lol

I am saying these things to you out of love and respect, if you left Christ and believed the lies of Mohammad and now call Jesus a mere prophet then you are sending yourself to hell.


Dr Rafat Amari has written a paper on the pagan origins of Ramadan. I don't bother learning islam from the media and sky news LOL I don't like muslims being demonized, it's ridiculous. Im focusing on the doctrine of islam alone and i believe that we must help our new muslims coming to Ireland to find Christ and show them the way to God for real, and for them to leave their concept of God based on 2 pagan arab gods, thinking to themselves it's abrahamic.

Again i'm right in saying this about the children haven to raised muslim. If in doubt go to islamreligion.com / chatislamonline.org or edialogue.org and ask them directly. They have all told me the exact same thing.

I have 2 dawah training manuals used by muslims to give dawah to Christians and i am well aware of the way you think. I have also looked at Ahmed Deedat and Dr Zakir. I have read some surah as well and looked at some hadiths. I have talked to many muslims and i have debated them on the Holy Trinity/ Council of Nicea, divinity of Jesus, Paul, Validity of the Bible, Mohammad being/not being in Bible... lots so to answer your question... no i haven't learnt islam from a newspaper why would i do that?

And i have also talked with ex muslims, a man from Morocco and a man from Iraq and i have heard them talk with muslims showing them the way to Christ.

And i have talked with Arab Christians from Lebanon and Pakistan and Palestine. I love their music although all i understand is Allah, Yasou3 and Masih haha There is a lebanese arab Christian group called 'strongholds' if you want to you tube, they are really good.

Youtube: Joyce - Stronghold's - هل تحيا هذه العظام

I'm not sure how productive message boards are with this stuff. But feel free to message me and stuff.

all the best, tom

salam al Masih


oh also forgot to mention have you watched anything by Dr Nabeel?

MadYaker

So no proof then. Alrighty, for the greater good lads: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=724472

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes wrote: »

Dr Rafat Amari has written a paper on the pagan origins of Ramadan.

Do you have a link/reference to these studies you have mentioned, specifically ones that aren't coming from a Christian proselytising perspective? Something objective basically.

Tom Dunne

MadYaker wrote: »

So no proof then. Alrighty, for the greater good lads: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=724472

If you have nothing constructive to add to the debate, then please refrain from posting links such as that.

Tom Dunne

niamhstokes wrote: »

I am saying these things to you out of love and respect, if you left Christ and believed the lies of Mohammad and now call Jesus a mere prophet then you are sending yourself to hell.

So, would I be correct in saying that you are a devoutly religious person?

niamhstokes wrote: »

Dr Rafat Amari has written a paper on the pagan origins of Ramadan.

Again, I ask you, can you provide me with the name of the paper and the peer-reviewed journal it appeared in? Any person with an agenda can write a paper.

niamhstokes wrote: »

i believe that we must help our new muslims coming to Ireland to find Christ and show them the way to God for real, and for them to leave their concept of God based on 2 pagan arab gods, thinking to themselves it's abrahamic.

So you think that Muslims are somehow lost? And perhaps in need of "proper" guidance?

niamhstokes wrote: »

Again i'm right in saying this about the children haven to raised muslim.

And again I ask why you say I am lying? Why would not one, but two families go out of their way to lie to me?

niamhstokes wrote: »

If in doubt go to islamreligion.com / chatislamonline.org or edialogue.org and ask them directly. They have all told me the exact same thing.

So let me get this right - you are suggesting I ask a randomer on an internet site, rather than believe two families whose homes I have visited and at whose dinner tables I have shared meals with?

niamhstokes wrote: »

I have 2 dawah training manuals used by muslims to give dawah to Christians and i am well aware of the way you think.

What makes you think I am a Muslim?

niamhstokes wrote: »

I no i haven't learnt islam from a newspaper why would i do that?

Because you appear to be particularly biased against Islam.

niamhstokes wrote: »

salam al Masih

I have no idea what that means.

niamhstokes wrote: »

oh also forgot to mention have you watched anything by Dr Nabeel?

And who is he or she?

niamhstokes

Oh sorry Tom, i thought you were Muslim. That's how you don't know the basics of islam. Never mind. Peace

Tom Dunne

niamhstokes wrote: »

Oh sorry Tom, i thought you were Muslim. That's how you don't know the basics of islam. Never mind. Peace

That's right. Sure what would I know?

I only live and work among Muslims, have been to more mosques than you have hot dinners and been immersed in Islamic culture for a long, long time.

Michael OBrien

Tom Dunne wrote: »

There's no "if this is the case". I can provide you the name and telephone numbers of at least two Irish women married to Muslim men. So please don't accuse me of lying.

Tom, your statement does not actually refute his comment. In Islam it is possible (although not ideal) for non-muslim women (if christian or jew) to marry Muslim men, not for Muslim women to marry non-muslim men. The issue is carrying on the Islamic faith, which is seen as primarily the role of the man as head of the household. Now this may be open to dispute nowadays but traditionally this is how it is understood.
It is seen as wrong for any muslim to marry any non-monotheist (e.g. polytheist or atheist), and forbidden in the quran unless that person converts.
Of course everyone has their own interpretations.

Monife

It really is all down to how the man views his religion and faith and only the OP would know this.

My husband is Muslim and prays 5 times a day and has strong faith in God (Allah) however it stops there. He is in no way sexist, respects women, has never tried to convert me (I'm agnostic/atheist anyway). He does want to teach our future children (none yet) about Islam but said it will be their choice if they wish to follow it and I believe him. The same goes for his sister who lives here and she has 3 children and the father has never once forced the children into Islam.

niamhstokes

Monife from what i have heard, this is often the case. However you will notice as the marriage goes on he makes an effort to invite you to islam. When /if children arrive, he has to as a Muslim raise his children as devout Muslims. It's part of any devout Muslim's belief system.

At this stage he has not invited you to islam but be assured he will do. When he does make sure to talk to him about the archaeological studies about the pagan origins of islam and the many historians who now say it is unlikely their prophet muhammad existed.

niamhstokes

Monife from what i have heard, this is often the case. However you will notice as the marriage goes on he makes an effort to invite you to islam. When /if children arrive, he has to as a Muslim raise his children as devout Muslims. It's part of any devout Muslim's belief system.

At this stage he has not invited you to islam but be assured he will do. When he does make sure to talk to him about the archaeological studies about the pagan origins of islam and the many historians who now say it is unlikely their prophet muhammad existed. This will help him see islam is not from 'allah'

endacl

niamhstokes wrote: »

Well it's up to him to believe in islam if he wants but if he studies the archaoelogical studies on its pagan origins, he'll see its fake anyway.

What i mean is , in future, seeing as it's Ireland, it'd be handier too as the kids can be Catholic and go to Catholic schools, do the first Holy Communion and Confirmation etc.. etc.. makes more sense if they are living here.

What about the pagan origins of Catholicism, then?

Monife

niamhstokes wrote: »

Monife from what i have heard, this is often the case. However you will notice as the marriage goes on he makes an effort to invite you to islam. When /if children arrive, he has to as a Muslim raise his children as devout Muslims. It's part of any devout Muslim's belief system.

At this stage he has not invited you to islam but be assured he will do. When he does make sure to talk to him about the archaeological studies about the pagan origins of islam and the many historians who now say it is unlikely their prophet muhammad existed.

I think after knowing my husband for over 6 years, I probably know him better than you. You are completely generalising and stereotyping all Muslims. There are Muslims that are not fanatic or extremist.

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes wrote: »

When he does make sure to talk to him about the archaeological studies about the pagan origins of islam...

Are you ever going to provide references/links to these studies or is this just another one of your hit and run posts?

niamhstokes

endacl wrote: »

What about the pagan origins of Catholicism, then?

Youtube: Zeitgeist Refuted Final Cut (Full Movie)

Tom Dunne

Mod note: please read the charter, niamhstokes.

Making gross generalisations about Muslims and posting large swathes of text to make a point are specifically against the charter.

One more gross generalisation from you and I will be removing your access to this forum.

I would also suggest you do not believe everything you read on the internet.

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes: I asked before for something objective, not from a Christian proselytist which Dr Amari appears to be: http://ministriesnetwork.org/en-us/whoweare/biographies.aspx

Dr. Amari felt he could no longer freely evangelize Muslims in his own country of origin. Before long, the Lord put on his heart immigrate and begin a major evangelistic effort towards Muslims from an outside country. In 1989, Dr. Amari, his wife and five children immigrated to the United States.

niamhstokes

sure francis lol enjoy the other articles then

Boskowski

"niamhstokes wrote: »

...even though archaeology has proven its (Muslim) entire origins are pagan/fake

While on the other hand Christianity is all about hard facts... Lol

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes wrote: »

sure francis lol enjoy the other articles then

What?

Tom Dunne

Frank Grimes wrote: »

What?

As they were not only nonsense, but also against the charter, I deleted them.

Frank Grimes

Tom Dunne wrote: »

As they were not only nonsense, but also against the charter, I deleted them.

Oh right, I (obviously) didn't notice them before you got rid of them.

niamhstokes

yes i noticed you deleted the articles ALL with references, sources and written BY academics. Good job Tom! keep up the censorship!

Frank Grimes

niamhstokes wrote: »

yes i noticed you deleted the articles ALL with references, sources and written BY academics. Good job Tom! keep up the censorship!

From what I've seen of what you posted they are completely biased, just because they're written by academics doesn't mean they are objective which is why I've asked for something that's not coming from a perspective of trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. What you've been posting is like quoting from the Iona Institute and presenting it as unbiased fact.

Tom Dunne

niamhstokes wrote: »

yes i noticed you deleted the articles ALL with references, sources and written BY academics. Good job Tom! keep up the censorship!

Enough. Take a month off

triple nipple

Tom Dunne wrote:

There are so many things so wrong with the above post, that I simply do not know where to begin.

Dont feed the trolls dude

katydid

niamhstokes wrote: »

I have to hand it to you, this is a new one to me. Please elaborate. (oh, and keep it factual - see my previous point).


ARCHAEOLOGICAL STUDIES HAVE PROVEN ISLAM HAS PAGAN ORIGINS AND RITUALS.

So? So has Judaism and Christianity.

katydid

Monife wrote: »

It really is all down to how the man views his religion and faith and only the OP would know this.

My husband is Muslim and prays 5 times a day and has strong faith in God (Allah) however it stops there. He is in no way sexist, respects women, has never tried to convert me (I'm agnostic/atheist anyway). He does want to teach our future children (none yet) about Islam but said it will be their choice if they wish to follow it and I believe him. The same goes for his sister who lives here and she has 3 children and the father has never once forced the children into Islam.

You've got a good one there...

fortjames

If they dont accept you then they are not good muslims. This is more like cultural impediment than them being muslims. Muslims can marry christians if you are?