Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Hyzepher

Sure isn't that where Liverpool are building their new stadium - they'll be flocking to join them then

Ken Shamrock

KINGVictor wrote: »

Totally agree with you as regards Rosicsky, he is a work horse and gives his best 80% of the time plus he is talented and has a good football brain, always impressed with his sense of urgency, attack philosophy and technical ability. For a 34 year old, he is phenomenal Imo; he would surely go down as one of the most loyal to the club.

Sorry I dont think Giroud has what it takes to a 'great' imo. He is an OK striker but I dont think he has the qualities to be an 'Henry' or Ian Wright for us. He is 28, most probably at his prime, he has deficiencies that he has not improved upon in the last 2 seasons. To be frank, I find it a bit odd that AW is not looking for a player to complement his position.

dorgasm wrote: »

Long video but seriously worth a watch if you're a Giroud critic. Imagine if this guy manages to add more goals to his game. I want him in our starting 11 purely for his ball winning and hold up play. Could be lethal with Walcott and Sanchez around to take advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKaFx2tU4FQ

Yes a lot of Giroud's work goes under the radar to most, and perhaps if he were surrounded by better finishers and/or played in a front two his assist's would be through the roof and he would be more highly rated, however, we didn't need that from him last year (of course we needed him to win balls in the air and hold up play) but what we needed from him were more goals and a bit more selfishness, take the ball down, turn and shoot, don't play it in front of Cazorla who can't get there, don't give it to someone who can't score.

Hopefully this year with Sanchez and walcott back he will be able to play the ball in front of Walcott who will get there, he'll be able to play in Sanchez who will score, but as you all know, i was critical of Giroud not because i don't like him, or appreciate him, i think he has the potential to double his tally from last year, and i pray that he does so this year. Looking at the stats of all his goals in the prem league last year, zero were from outside the box, i want that to change.

Ed Winchester

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

all know, i was critical of Giroud not because i don't like him, or appreciate him, i think he has the potential to double his tally from last year, and i pray that he does so this year. Looking at the stats of all his goals in the prem league last year, zero were from outside the box, i want that to change.

I think you're asking a lot. Double his tally would be 44. And personally, it wouldn't bother me at all if Giroud never scored outside of the box. Leave that fancy stuff to the midfielders. I definitely agree though, his goal and assist tally will increase if he gets an extended run with Theo and Alexis either side of him.

Mickeroo

If Giroud adds between 5 and 10 goals to last season's tally in all competitions I'll be ecstatic.

Ken Shamrock

Ed Winchester wrote: »

I think you're asking a lot. Double his tally would be 44. And personally, it wouldn't bother me at all if Giroud never scored outside of the box. Leave that fancy stuff to the midfielders. I definitely agree though, his goal and assist tally will increase if he gets an extended run with Theo and Alexis either side of him.

Doubling his tally will mean 32 prem goals instead of 16. Leave the cups to Campbell and whoever. Champs league, would be nice to bag a few of course.

Fancy stuff? Come on man, Henry...Bergkamp....Van Persie....etc They were successful strikers for us, they took shots from outside the box nearly every game, they scored screamers, they (apart from were selfish, in a good way. Giroud needs to add that to his game.

Awesomeness

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Yes a lot of Giroud's work goes under the radar to most, and perhaps if he were surrounded by better finishers and/or played in a front two his assist's would be through the roof and he would be more highly rated, however, we didn't need that from him last year (of course we needed him to win balls in the air and hold up play) but what we needed from him were more goals and a bit more selfishness, take the ball down, turn and shoot, don't play it in front of Cazorla who can't get there, don't give it to someone who can't score.

Hopefully this year with Sanchez and walcott back he will be able to play the ball in front of Walcott who will get there, he'll be able to play in Sanchez who will score, but as you all know, i was critical of Giroud not because i don't like him, or appreciate him, i think he has the potential to double his tally from last year, and i pray that he does so this year. Looking at the stats of all his goals in the prem league last year, zero were from outside the box, i want that to change.

I dont give a **** if he never scores from outside the box and they all hit off his ass and go in as long as hes getting in positions setting up chances and getting goals

Mickeroo

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Fancy stuff? Come on man, Henry...Bergkamp....Van Persie....etc They were successful strikers for us, they took shots from outside the box nearly every game, they scored screamers, they (apart from were selfish, in a good way. Giroud needs to add that to his game.

Different types of player to Ollie. There have been plenty of world class strikers who don't shoot from range. Van Nistelrooy scored only one goal outside the box in his entire career afaik.

Ken Shamrock

Mickeroo wrote: »

Different types of player to Ollie. There have been plenty of world class strikers who don't shoot from range. Van Nistelrooy scored only one goal outside the box in his entire career afaik.

I know, i'm aware of that but Van NIstelrooy didn't win balls and hold up play like Giroud does, he stood in the box waiting for a world class player to put the ball on his foot, Giroud can't afford to do that.

Hyzepher

That video compilation of Giroud is not the first were the lack of finishing is more than evident. The Walcott injury was a significant point in our season and with Sanchez now part of the team I would expect a lot more goals with Giroud getting a lot of assists

overpronator

Put it this way, Giroud wouldn't have been first choice centre forward for any team that has won the league in the premier league era. Yes his general play is strong and he does bring players into the game but he doesn't score enough and consistently misses chances in tight games against the bigger teams. I like him as a player but if we are going to seriously challenge over a number of years and build another great Arsenal team then he's just plainly isn't anywhere near good enough.

Alfred Borden

I think Wenger will give Giroud his final chance this year to prove he can lead the line for us for a few years. All the tools are there for him, one of the best #10s in the world, three extremely quick wingers and one of the best box to box players in Europe. If he didnt hit 30 goals in all competitions this year, i would be extremely disappointed. Love his hold up play and his assists stats are great but we already have our assist maker in Ozil, need a clinical striker to bang them in, hopefully its giroud.

batistuta9

whatever about his overall finishing being bad, his aerial finishing & threat from set piece is brutal altogether.

that's what he & arsenal should be really looking to improve on, as i don't think his shooting/finishing will ever improve that much.
though with walcott/sanchez on the right for a full season it should help him as he's good at beating players/getting in at the near post for the cutback

gosplan

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Hopefully this year with Sanchez and walcott back he will be able to play the ball in front of Walcott

This is so true. Arseblog had a good write up on Sanchez pointing out how much he likes to get in the box.

I think it's no coincidence that Ramsey, the only midfielder who really clicked in terms of runs to the box had a great goalscoring season.

Giroud was holding it up for players whose instinct was to stop and look up to find a striker.

We need direct chargers to play off Giroud.

He'll be fantastic IMO.

Ken Shamrock

^^^ That is exactly it, there's no point having a great gun with no ammunition

gandalf

gosplan wrote: »

This is so true. Arseblog had a good write up on Sanchez pointing out how much he likes to get in the box.

I think it's no coincidence that Ramsey, the only midfielder who really clicked in terms of runs to the box had a great goalscoring season.

Giroud was holding it up for players whose instinct was to stop and look up to find a striker.

We need direct chargers to play off Giroud.

He'll be fantastic IMO.

This summerises brilliantly Giroud's main strength, at times he isn't the most clinical finisher but he links play in the final third so well and given the array of talent playing around him now we should see more goals than last season.

Yes we do need another Striker but I really cannot understand the absolute hatred among some of us for Oliver. He is one of my favourite players in our current squad.

Hyzepher

I think people forget how many goals Giroud scored last season. For a team not renowned for it's high scoring, Giroud had a respectable season and this was while being the lone striker in a team with no front line support.

The way some people were talking you'd think he barely got into double figures

omega man

Wenger is going to rely on goals from midfield, which I've absolutely no doubt will come in droves from Walcott, Sanchez and Ramsey etc. however I'm still very concerned that our CF options are very limited for a team with realistic ambitions of winning the EPL and CL.

Don't think we need a star CF signing but at the very least we need to give Giroud competition and he needs to be very aware that if he isn't scoring then he's on the bench unlike last season where we didn't have that opportunity and it exposed us.

byrneg28

Hyzepher wrote: »

I think people forget how many goals Giroud scored last season. For a team not renowned for it's high scoring, Giroud had a respectable season and this was while being the lone striker in a team with no front line support.

The way some people were talking you'd think he barely got into double figures

I just think people expect too much because Arsenal are used to having Ian Wright, Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie in the past, but in addition to that don't forget that the game is changing and it's hard to get players scoring 25+ a season, remember only one person did it this season!

Remember 2012/13, okay by all accounts a poor season but

Theo Walcott scored 14
Lukas Podolski scored 11
Giroud scored 11
Santi Cazorla scored 12
in the league

We want a team where everyone is going to be chipping in, Wenger rotates in midfield and encourages Girouds hold up play. So for what Giroud was doing last season I was happy with his increase in goal tally. To be fair if Walcott had have been fit this season he would have got up to 15 goals again.. it's not about one top class striker anymore.

Also take into account that Giroud is not first choice penalty taker.

Look at Bayern. Record breaking season not one player over 20 goals

Mandzukic scored 18
Muller scored 13
Robben scored 11
Ribery scored 10

This is what Wenger is trying to emulate, Giroud will not score over 25 a season that's a fact, but if next season everyones fully fit and

Giroud scores 15
Walcott scores 13
Sanchez scores 16
Ramsey scores 15

I think we'd all be happy. So quit the moaning, Giroud is a good quality. He's better than some strikers out there who cost 60mil and do nothing. Look at Cavani, same amount of games in a weaker league and cost 45 million more than Giroud.

Okay argue Cavani played on the wing but just because Giroud comes up as at the top of the pitch on the team-sheet on SkySports does not mean he's playing as an out and out poacher, he's a Target Man/Hold up linking striker, he plays outside the box, he tries to supply the rotating midfield... Give him a break!!

Ardennes1944

Any transfer updates today? Anything Blobby?

dvemail

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

Any transfer updates today? Anything Blobby?

We are currently scouting a few youngsters from across Europe and Tarzan.

jonneymendoza

wtf

CatInABox

dvemail wrote: »

We are currently scouting a few youngsters from across Europe and Tarzan.

Ah, the Germans do love their mullets. :eek:

gandalf

LOL the head on Ozil !!!!

AdamD

I'm sorry but I can't buy into this Giroud love in at all, hes simply sub par for a title challenging team.

Alfred Borden

AdamD wrote: »

I'm sorry but I can't buy into this Giroud love in at all, hes simply sub par for a title challenging team.

I agree, dont think he is good enough. Doesnt look like we will sign someone better though so hopefully he can prove us wrong.

byrneg28

AdamD wrote: »

I'm sorry but I can't buy into this Giroud love in at all, hes simply sub par for a title challenging team.

Suggest a better striker who is available in this current moment time within our remaining transfer funds.

UnknownSpecies

AdamD wrote: »

I'm sorry but I can't buy into this Giroud love in at all, hes simply sub par for a title challenging team.

Depending on the system deployed. As one poster already mentioned, look at Munich's team last year. Not one player broke 20 goals, but the attacking players all scored around 12-15. I'd much rather have that spread of goals rather than rely on one striker to get everything. It's like 3 seasons go, if RvP didn't show up, we struggled to score and win games.

byrneg28

dorgasm wrote: »

Depending on the system deployed. As one poster already mentioned, look at Munich's team last year. Not one player broke 20 goals, but the attacking players all scored around 12-15. I'd much rather have that spread of goals rather than rely on one striker to get everything. It's like 3 seasons go, if RvP didn't show up, we struggled to score and win games.

And look at what happened when we relied on RvP, he had one full season and we were left with Chamakh and Bendtner, it's okay when you're Man City, Barcelona, Chelsea etc. and you can afford the wage budget to have good strikers to rotate or sitting on the bench.

But Wenger is trying to run this club in the correct way similar to Bayern Munich, youth homegrown players mixed with forgotten talent from Real Madrid and Barcelona who are mended into a team rather than individuals. Robin van Persie saved Arsenal in a period but the team is changing.

Don't forget Bayern Munich's highest signing ever was Javi Martinez for 40mil.

Robben cost 24 mil and so did Ribery and look at the talents they've developed into. Where is Bayern's world class striker? Mandzukic , Claudio Pizarro, Mario Gomez...?? all similar moulds to Giroud. All similar and on par players with Giroud..

Ribery - Mandzukic - Robben is a similar top three to Sanchez - Giroud - Walcott (in terms of stature and speed, technical ability etc.)

Alfred Borden

But Bayern have severely upgraded this summer in fairness

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

Suggest a better striker who is available in this current moment time within our remaining transfer funds.

No offense but this is a lazy response that has been said many times. This isnt an excuse, players can be got if you really want them.

Me personally I am not sure what side of the fence I am on, some very good arguements for why he will work next season but also the I dont think what we just saw (season gone) is good enough for a title winning team.

Probably sitting on the I would like to see him 1 more season side because there is the potential he could explode.

byrneg28

Raf32 wrote: »

But Bayern have severely upgraded this summer in fairness

Hold the phone there. Lewandowski left on a free transfer, he was bound to go to the best team in the league, why wouldn't Bayern not take him.. remember it took Bayern a while to get there, and they won the league champions league, undefeated before they've ''upgraded''

Other than that they've signed a 21 year old left back from Spain and a 23 year old defensive midfielder on a free transfer.. if Wenger did this we'd be saying we're going backwards.

While ''upgrading'' they've arguably let their best Midfielder go in the process.

byrneg28

Soups123 wrote: »

No offense but this is a lazy response that has been said many times. This isnt an excuse, players can be got if you really want them.

Me personally I am not sure what side of the fence I am on, some very good arguements for why he will work next season but also the I dont think what we just saw (season gone) is good enough for a title winning team.

Probably sitting on the I would like to see him 1 more season side because there is the potential he could explode.

It's a lazy response to a lazy response, if you read my response previous it's an argument on why I think Giroud is working.

Yes you are right it is lazy, but who do you recommend we get as a replacement, I want to hear people's opinions on this. Realistically, if he's ''that bad'' which ''options'' would you replace Giroud with

TimeToShine

byrneg28 wrote: »

Robben cost 24 mil and so did Ribery and look at the talents they've developed into. Where is Bayern's world class striker? Mandzukic , Claudio Pizarro, Mario Gomez...?? all similar moulds to Giroud. All similar and on par players with Giroud..

Ribery - Mandzukic - Robben is a similar top three to Sanchez - Giroud - Walcott (in terms of stature and speed, technical ability etc.)

Robben and Ribery were already huge when they were bought and cost more than enough at the time. Comparing the two of them who regularly feature in top 5 in the world lists to the likes of Walcott is a joke to be honest, and I can say with the utmost confidence even as an Arsenal fan. Sanchez we are yet to see so the jury's out on him but I have high hopes, Gomez was near enough to world class and now that they had a season of someone "on par" with Giroud in Mandzukic they immediately went towards bringing in Lewandowski who is way ahead of Giroud. Anyway, contrary to my post up until now, we should be aiming to beat teams like Bayern if we want to win the CL instead of putting them on a pedestal and trying to emulate them. Just because they don't have a world class striker doesn't mean we don't need one, if anything it would give us the edge.

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

It's a lazy response to a lazy response, if you read my response previous it's an argument on why I think Giroud is working.

Yes you are right it is lazy, but who do you recommend we get as a replacement, I want to hear people's opinions on this. Realistically, if he's ''that bad'' which ''options'' would you replace Giroud with

As I said I am a little on the fence but I liked both your and Gosplans arguments for.

Listen I could list 20 better forwards than Giroud easily and most could be got with money, but there are no guarantees and I'm not a scout.

I said in my post I would like to see him lead the line this year because I think he has the potential to explode

UnknownSpecies

TimeToShine wrote: »

Robben and Ribery were already huge when they were bought and cost more than enough at the time. Comparing the two of them who regularly feature in top 5 in the world lists to the likes of Walcott is a joke to be honest, and I can say with the utmost confidence even as an Arsenal fan. Sanchez we are yet to see so the jury's out on him but I have high hopes, Gomez was near enough to world class and now that they had a season of someone "on par" with Giroud in Mandzukic they immediately went towards bringing in Lewandowski who is way ahead of Giroud. Anyway, contrary to my post up until now, we should be aiming to beat teams like Bayern if we want to win the CL instead of putting them on a pedestal and trying to emulate them. Just because they don't have a world class striker doesn't mean we don't need one, if anything it would give us the edge.

To win the Champion's League we do have to aim to beat them, we get bloody drawn against them every year :P

Alfred Borden

byrneg28 wrote: »

Hold the phone there. Lewandowski left on a free transfer, he was bound to go to the best team in the league, why wouldn't Bayern not take him.. remember it took Bayern a while to get there, and they won the league champions league, undefeated before they've ''upgraded''

Other than that they've signed a 21 year old left back from Spain and a 23 year old defensive midfielder on a free transfer.. if Wenger did this we'd be saying we're going backwards.

While ''upgrading'' they've arguably let their best Midfielder go in the process.

I was just on about MM > Lewy not the rest of the team. Its only a two team league anyways.

Alfred Borden

TimeToShine wrote: »

Robben and Ribery were already huge when they were bought and cost more than enough at the time. Comparing the two of them who regularly feature in top 5 in the world lists to the likes of Walcott is a joke to be honest, and I can say with the utmost confidence even as an Arsenal fan. Sanchez we are yet to see so the jury's out on him but I have high hopes, Gomez was near enough to world class and now that they had a season of someone "on par" with Giroud in Mandzukic they immediately went towards bringing in Lewandowski who is way ahead of Giroud. Anyway, contrary to my post up until now, we should be aiming to beat teams like Bayern if we want to win the CL instead of putting them on a pedestal and trying to emulate them. Just because they don't have a world class striker doesn't mean we don't need one, if anything it would give us the edge.

Thats the point i was trying to make :pac:

Just wondering if those numbers for Munich are League-only?

OneEightSeven

Giroud isn't a striker, he's a second striker in a striker's position. He's a similar player to Dennis Bergkamp, albeit, of lesser quality.

What we need is a Thierry Henry to play along side him.

king Henry 14

byrneg28 wrote: »

Hold the phone there. Lewandowski left on a free transfer, he was bound to go to the best team in the league, why wouldn't Bayern not take him.. remember it took Bayern a while to get there, and they won the league champions league, undefeated before they've ''upgraded''

Other than that they've signed a 21 year old left back from Spain and a 23 year old defensive midfielder on a free transfer.. if Wenger did this we'd be saying we're going backwards.

While ''upgrading'' they've arguably let their best Midfielder go in the process.

To be fair bayern won their league by a country mile and we came fourth. The amount of investment and improvement both teams have to make to win their respective leagues next season are completely different. Bayern could probably stroll their league without further signings where as if we dont sign anymore we could be set for fourth again.

byrneg28

TimeToShine wrote: »

Robben and Ribery were already huge when they were bought and cost more than enough at the time. Comparing the two of them who regularly feature in top 5 in the world lists to the likes of Walcott is a joke to be honest, and I can say with the utmost confidence even as an Arsenal fan. Sanchez we are yet to see so the jury's out on him but I have high hopes, Gomez was near enough to world class and now that they had a season of someone "on par" with Giroud in Mandzukic they immediately went towards bringing in Lewandowski who is way ahead of Giroud. Anyway, contrary to my post up until now, we should be aiming to beat teams like Bayern if we want to win the CL instead of putting them on a pedestal and trying to emulate them. Just because they don't have a world class striker doesn't mean we don't need one, if anything it would give us the edge.

I don't think Ribery was half as good as he was until he played for Bayern so I'm putting him in the basket of Sanchez (of hope)

Arguably Robben was forced out of Real Madrid, yeah he may have been good but he hasn't reached the heights he has in his prime, later career, fully fit and playing regularly for Bayern

2 Seasons with Mandzukic, won them every trophy available. Doesn't suit Pep's style is the reason he is leaving. Lewandowski will suit the role Pep wants to play.

I'm giving a raw comparison to a team that is succeeding without the use of huge funds and dealing with what they have. you've just agreed that Mandzukic is on par with Giroud, yet it was during a time when they won every trophy available?

I really do think it's Arsenal's history of always having one that is making everyone so keen on having an utterly outstanding goalscoring striker and if it's any one that wants to produce one it's Wenger.

It's why I keep asking people to suggest this world class striker we should buy or develop, but nobody seems to have anything to suggest

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

Just wondering if those numbers for Munich are League-only?

Yea, those are league-only figures. They all went 20+ with all comps included. So did Giroud.

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

I don't think Ribery was half as good as he was until he played for Bayern so I'm putting him in the basket of Sanchez (of hope)

Arguably Robben was forced out of Real Madrid, yeah he may have been good but he hasn't reached the heights he has in his prime, later career, fully fit and playing regularly for Bayern

2 Seasons with Mandzukic, won them every trophy available. Doesn't suit Pep's style is the reason he is leaving. Lewandowski will suit the role Pep wants to play.

I'm giving a raw comparison to a team that is succeeding without the use of huge funds and dealing with what they have. you've just agreed that Mandzukic is on par with Giroud, yet it was during a time when they won every trophy available?

I really do think it's Arsenal's history of always having one that is making everyone so keen on having an utterly outstanding goalscoring striker and if it's any one that wants to produce one it's Wenger.

It's why I keep asking people to suggest this world class striker we should buy or develop, but nobody seems to have anything to suggest

He doesnt have to be world class to be an improvement on Giroud. The club hire scouts to do this job not people of boards.

byrneg28

Soups123 wrote: »

He doesnt have to be world class to be an improvement on Giroud. The club hire scouts to do this job not people of boards.

And it's the Manager's job to build a title-challenging team. Not the people of boards, but people seem to argue about that?

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

And it's the Manager's job to build a title-challenging team. Not the people of boards, but people seem to argue about that?

Yep agree to an extent. Fans get to see and know the players we have, scouts though find the talent we dont see and based on scouting feel they fit best, like how we found Wright, Henry, RVP etc.

Problem is people get to see Giroud and lets be honest he let us down last year for a fair bit, in his defense he was overplayed and not being challenged with direct competition.

That all said I want to see what he can do with Sanchez and Walcott on the flanks

Alfred Borden

Anyone think Sanchez will turn out to be a #9? Can see him being our Aguero/Suarez.

Soups123

Raf32 wrote: »

Anyone think Sanchez will turn out to be a #9? Can see him being our Aguero/Suarez.

Don't see why not, he has a lot of the characteristics for it. Really feeling/hoping/praying that this is what he is going to be and do it well.

byrneg28

Raf32 wrote: »

Anyone think Sanchez will turn out to be a #9? Can see him being our Aguero/Suarez.

Definitely see it happening. It's the main reason Liverpool wanted a direct replacement for Suarez and Wenger no longer feels he requires a striker.

He was just played out of position at Barcelona due to Messi

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

Definitely see it happening. It's the main reason Liverpool wanted a direct replacement for Suarez and Wenger no longer feels he requires a striker.

He was just played out of position at Barcelona due to Messi

I don't claim to know him as well as I would like but thats my thoughts too, he would have been as close to a direct replacement as they could get. I see him a bit Suarezesque without the biting.

Kerry Gooner

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Giroud isn't a striker, he's a second striker in a striker's position. He's a similar player to Dennis Bergkamp, albeit, of lesser quality.

A lot less quality