Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Alfred Borden

The longer Wenger continues with this stupid idea of Ozil on the left, the longer people will question not resigning Cesc to play in Wilsheres position. For what its worth i think Ozil is better than Fabregas but if Wenger keeps playing him wide, we wont see it.

HazDanz

Once Walcott is back fit I can see Ozil back in the centre for us.

Just need to be a bit of patience even if it is frustrating.


Edit: Spelling.

Soups123

HazDanz wrote: »

Once Walcott is back fit I can see Ozil back in the centre for us.

Just need to be a bit patient even if it is frustrating.

Yeah that's what im hoping

AdamD

Welbeck on

nearly an instant impact bringing a good save out of the keeper

Ardennes1944

When Walcott was fit last season did Ozil play in the centre? Cant remember meself

Soups123

AdamD wrote: »

Welbeck on

nearly an instant impact bringing a good save out of the keeper

The kids just pure quality I've always said it

Mr Blobby

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

When Walcott was fit last season did Ozil play in the centre? Cant remember meself

Ozil played centre pretty much all season.

..But to answer your question yeah he did.

.jacksparrow.

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Ozil played centre pretty much all season.

..But to answer your question yeah he did.

You sure?

I thought he was on the wing a lot.

brianregan09

He was definitly on the wing alot

Mr Blobby

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

You sure?

I thought he was on the wing a lot.

He popped up there a bit near the end of the season.
But from what I remember he played mostly in the middle.

the untitled user

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I'd prefer cesc over ozil.

There I said it.

Meh... I would disagree. Cesc is a bit more of a hard runner and probably a better passer, but Ozil is better at finding space than Cesc which is why Ozil has generally had a bigger impact in the big games than Cesc (though not for us yet unfortunately).

K4t

Soups123 wrote: »

The kids just pure quality I've always said it

He is.

Still a bit tentative at times and needs to be more selfish ala Sturridge, who he is more talented than imo. Delighted he is at Arsenal now where he can flourish under the guidance of Wenger in a team that knows exactly what they're doing and play some great football too. The goals will come.

king Henry 14

the untitled user wrote: »

Meh... I would disagree. Cesc is a bit more of a hard runner and probably a better passer, but Ozil is better at finding space than Cesc which is why Ozil has generally had a bigger impact in the big games than Cesc (though not for us yet unfortunately).

Cesc is and always will be a better player than Ozil. Wengers stubbornness has made us a regressive club because arsene is more important than the club. I've followed arsenal for 40 years and Wenger had gone from being the best thing that has ever happened to the club to the worst thing. He has let us supporters down and will continue to do so and as long as we forgive him for his mismanagement he will continue to get away with it. I love arsenal with all my heart but I wonder if the owners/ management love the club as much as us supporters do. I seriously doubt it.

Y2KBOS86

K4t wrote: »

He is.

Still a bit tentative at times and needs to be more selfish ala Sturridge, who he is more talented than imo. Delighted he is at Arsenal now where he can flourish under the guidance of Wenger in a team that knows exactly what they're doing and play some great football too. The goals will come.

Welbeck love in is too much.

You would think we have a signed a young Thierry Henry clone the way United are fans are carrying on.

He was your 5th choice striker behind an 18 year old Wilson.

Two months ago we all thought he was a donkey and now he has the potential to rape defences with his ferocious pace, Wenger is going to transform him etc.

I can't bring myself to be excited by him.

HazDanz

king Henry 14 wrote: »

Cesc is and always will be a better player than Ozil. Wengers stubbornness has made us a regressive club because arsene is more important than the club. I've followed arsenal for 40 years and Wenger had gone from being the best thing that has ever happened to the club to the worst thing. He has let us supporters down and will continue to do so and as long as we forgive him for his mismanagement he will continue to get away with it. I love arsenal with all my heart but I wonder if the owners/ management love the club as much as us supporters do. I seriously doubt it.

Y2KBOS86

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Welbeck love in is too much.

You would think we have a signed a young Thierry Henry clone the way United are fans are carrying on.

He was your 5th choice striker behind an 18 year old.

What? I don't pay too much attention to utd., but wasn't Welbeck 3rd behind RvP and Rooney?

.jacksparrow.

HazDanz wrote: »

Cesc is a better player though, I'm afraid to say it will be proven this season.

the untitled user

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Cesc is a better player though, I'm afraid to say it will be proven this season.

On what basis?

artvandelay48

king Henry 14 wrote: »

Cesc is and always will be a better player than Ozil. Wengers stubbornness has made us a regressive club because arsene is more important than the club. I've followed arsenal for 40 years and Wenger had gone from being the best thing that has ever happened to the club to the worst thing. He has let us supporters down and will continue to do so and as long as we forgive him for his mismanagement he will continue to get away with it. I love arsenal with all my heart but I wonder if the owners/ management love the club as much as us supporters do. I seriously doubt it.

Wow

.jacksparrow.

the untitled user wrote: »

On what basis?

On what basis is ozil the better player?

Mickeroo

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

On what basis is ozil the better player?

To be fair, if you come out with a statement the burden of proof is on you to back it up. They didn't actually say Ozil is better they asked you why you think he isn't.

wonga77

to be fair, cesc much to my disgust has hit the ground running at Chelsea, what is it 5 assists in 3 games or something?
I think he's going to be a massive player for Chelsea this season whether people like to admit it or not.
He and Costa havent taken long to get going while we spent a good chunk of last year saying it was Ozil's first season and generally making excuses for him
Arguing who's better is pretty irrelevant imo, each has different strenths and weaknesses

.jacksparrow.

Mickeroo wrote: »

To be fair, if you come out with a statement the burden of proof is on you to back it up. They didn't actually say Ozil is better they asked you why you think he isn't.

OK well in my opinion cesc is a better player.

From what I have seen from both players cesc has more of an impact and suits us better.

I was a firm believer ozil would be brilliant this season, and although it's early days he looks disinterested and just not having much of an impact he is expected too.

He has been average for quite a while now and I don't know why,maybe he's been played out of position. I know people will defend him and offer a number of excuses but he just hasn't lived up to the expectations I had when he arrived.

I would prefer cesc pulling the strings right now. Let's hope I'm proved wrong, I have been with Ramsey.

.jacksparrow.

wonga77 wrote: »

to be fair, cesc much to my disgust has hit the ground running at Chelsea, what is it 5 assists in 3 games or something?
I think he's going to be a massive player for Chelsea this season whether people like to admit it or not.
He and Costa havent taken long to get going while we spent a good chunk of last year saying it was Ozil's first season and generally making excuses for him
Arguing who's better is pretty irrelevant imo, each has different strenths and weaknesses

Good points.

Question, what's ozils strengths over cesc?

greendom

Ozil seems to get more lee-way from fans than any other player. As the most expensive in our history you might think the opposite would be true. Last season the players around Ozil, Giroud in particular,were to blame for Ozil's lack of end product. This season its that he was being played out of position. I think he has marvellous vision and technical ability but is not doing it enough to justify the price tag. He is more than capable of turning it around though.

wonga77

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Good points.

Question, what's ozils strengths over cesc?

I cant answer. I think Fabregas would suit us better and would offer more. I said it since the start that I wanted him back and im disgusted he was left go to Chelsea.
Most people wont admit that he is as good as Ozil if not better, simply because in their eyes he shafted us to get a move to Barca. I can understand why people wont forgive but to dismiss his ability is just showing a stubborness that Wenger would be proud of.

On saying all of that, If Wenger opened his fcuking eyes and played Ozil in his best position then maybe we'd see a different player. He (Ozil) said it himself last week that he dislikes the wing and would much rather the center, just put him in there, he's the marquee player, he shouldnt be thrown out to the wing

Mickeroo

Would agree with that. It's hard to argue for Ozil over Cesc on current form tbh. Our whole squad is playing poor enough at the moment though so hopefully once the team clicks into place he will look a different player.

wonga77

Id also like to add that I have Ozil backed to be have top assists in the league this year, he'd want to pull the thumb out!

Fuzzy_Dunlop

greendom wrote: »

Ozil seems to get more lee-way from fans than any other player. As the most expensive in our history you might think the opposite would be true. Last season the players around Ozil, Giroud in particular,were to blame for Ozil's lack of end product. This season its that he was being played out of position. I think he has marvellous vision and technical ability but is not doing it enough to justify the price tag. He is more than capable of turning it around though.

At the same time, Ozil is criticised not stop by a lot of people, even for the expression on his face a lot of the time ffs! He does need to start being more influential in terms of end product but he really does do a lot of great work that leads to chances. How often does he set the fullbacks/wingers off down the wings in the last third with an inside pass

dvemail

Lets try Cesc on the wings and see how he fairs out for Chelsea.
Ozil in the middle is better than Cesc in the middle.

Ed Winchester

Its hard to fathom why Ozil is still being played on the wing. In any workplace, if you're not happy with something you talk to your manager about it. I'm sure he's had the conversation with Wenger. I know Wenger calls the shots, but surely he wasn't bought as a winger. As frustrating as it is for us fans, it must be driving Ozil demented.

emergingstar

Logs on

See's a big cesc wankfest

Logs back off again

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Its hard to fathom why Ozil is still being played on the wing. In any workplace, if you're not happy with something you talk to your manager about it. I'm sure he's had the conversation with Wenger. I know Wenger calls the shots, but surely he wasn't bought as a winger. As frustrating as it is for us fans, it must be driving Ozil demented.

Yeah that's the thing I really don't get about the last few games, it's not like we're short on wingers! It's fine letting him drift to the wings from a central position and change positions with the wingers from time to time but he can't be out there most of the time. Maybe now that we have Welbeck he will be up top and Sanchez back to the wings and Walcott on the other side to follow ... cue Welbeck on the wing opposite Ozil

.jacksparrow.

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Its hard to fathom why Ozil is still being played on the wing. In any workplace, if you're not happy with something you talk to your manager about it. I'm sure he's had the conversation with Wenger. I know Wenger calls the shots, but surely he wasn't bought as a winger. As frustrating as it is for us fans, it must be driving Ozil demented.

Wenger is the king of playing players out of position, sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.

salmocab

We don't have an out and out LW so Wenger keeps putting Ozil there as he doesn't seem to fancy Poldoski there. We are very unbalanced our strength is very right sided.

AdamD

Sanchez will probably play left a fair bit when Welbeck comes in, he played a lot of the Leicester game on that side. Welbeck can also play left.

Ed Winchester

Its like buying Messi and playing him at left back. Makes no sense to me.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

salmocab wrote: »

We don't have an out and out LW so Wenger keeps putting Ozil there as he doesn't seem to fancy Poldoski there. We are very unbalanced our strength is very right sided.

I don't see what the problem is playing a right footed player on the left to be able to cut inside. Or even Santi since he's so two footed, even though he's not very effective out on the wing.

Ed Winchester

AdamD wrote: »

Sanchez will probably play left a fair bit when Welbeck comes in, he played a lot of the Leicester game on that side. Welbeck can also play left.

Welbeck has to be up top or nowhere for me.

Marty McFly

For people using Cescs stats versus Ozils for this season the same could be said about any Chelsea player versus any Arsenal player. Especially with Costa up front making good runs

Chelsea have hit the ground running we have hit the ground with the gearbox stuck in reverse. I've no doubt well get going though.



I fear but really hope this doesn't become a season long debate Cesc is a player who went on strike, let players put Barcelona jerseys on him etc then when his DNA move didn't work out he tried to come back with his tail between his legs fcuk him you're not needed.

.jacksparrow.

Marty McFly wrote: »

For people using Cescs stats versus Ozils for this season the same could be said about any Chelsea player versus any Arsenal player. Especially with Costa up front making good runs

Chelsea have hit the ground running we have hit the ground with the gearbox stuck in reverse. I've no doubt well get going though.



I fear but really hope this doesn't become a season long debate Cesc is a player who went on strike, let players put Barcelona jerseys on him etc then when his DNA move didn't work out he tried to come back with his tail between his legs fcuk him you're not needed.

It's only a discussion.

Quazzie

Marty McFly wrote: »

fcuk him you're not needed.

He is though. We have no one that could play at the same level he gave us.

salmocab

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is playing a right footed player on the left to be able to cut inside. Or even Santi since he's so two footed, even though he's not very effective out on the wing.

Sorry didn't mean that the players are all right sided but that the team is unbalanced we seem to attack on the right more which is due to Walcott Ox and now Sanchez all being wide right players but we just push someone out to the left usually Ozil or maybe Santi neither of which are really LWs. I think we need a proper LW.

Marty McFly

Quazzie wrote: »

He is though. We have no one that could play at the same level he gave us.

You're right we don't we have two players when everyone is fit who should occupy his space that play to a higher level in Ramsey and Ozil.

HazDanz

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

On what basis is ozil the better player?

One thing that always sticks out for me is Ozil's positioning. He always seems to be in the right position for a one two, through ball pass and I've been particularly impressed with how he can ghost into a position to receive the ball just at the edge of the opposition area for a shooting angle/final assist without being picked up.

HazDanz

Btw Fabregas's form shouldn't be a surprise, he has played years in this league and he is also feeding a top class striker in his favored position.

Ozil is out of position, feeding Sanogo/Giroud. He can't work miracles! :P

byrneg28

Can you put out a call-out video for jacksparrow , Haz?

A bit like this would be good to see, yous seem to be having a good go at each other over this fabregas/ozil debate,

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=556204121176451&set=vb.100003606033651&type=2&theater

Fuzzy_Dunlop

salmocab wrote: »

Sorry didn't mean that the players are all right sided but that the team is unbalanced we seem to attack on the right more which is due to Walcott Ox and now Sanchez all being wide right players but we just push someone out to the left usually Ozil or maybe Santi neither of which are really LWs. I think we need a proper LW.

Yes this is true enough that most of our attacks seem to be going down the right atm. It could be as much to do with Debuchy vs Monreal (who I think has been very good recently, but not an attacking threat like Debuchy). I think Ox or Alexis on the left would work in terms of giving us more of an attaching threat out wide on the left.

byrneg28

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Yes this is true enough that most of our attacks seem to be going down the right atm. It could be as much to do with Debuchy vs Monreal (who I think has been very good recently, but not an attacking threat like Debuchy). I think Ox or Alexis on the left would work in terms of giving us more of an attaching threat out wide on the left.

I read an article about it before, I'll see if I can find it, Wenger uses a creative player on the left for balance and a more quick agile player on the right.

I cant remember the specifics but the player on the left is meant to be an outlet to slow down the game and control the play, where by he can switch with the CAM too. So it's probably why Ozil and Santi play there they switch a lot.

The logic is if we had two quick very similar left and right players (e.g. theo and ox) we'd be predictable on both flanks and soon be found out and be caught on the counter by players gunning forward (doesn't stop it happening anyway)

I'll see if I can find it and get back to you

greendom

I must admit I love watching Ozil pass the ball- he reminds me of Zidane in the way his foot contacts with the ball.