Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Ed Winchester

greendom wrote: »

I must admit I love watching Ozil pass the ball- he reminds me of Zidane in the way his foot contacts with the ball.

I've thought that watching him before. He strokes it rather than boots it. Its sublime.

byrneg28

http://1nildown2oneup.net/where-will-wenger-play-ozil-mesut-cam-and-santi-on-the-wing-or-vice-versa/

http://desigunner.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/mesut-ozil-much-more-than-a-marquee-signing/

Two very good articles that touch on playing ozil left

Remember he is no.11

HazDanz

greendom wrote: »

Ozil seems to get more lee-way from fans than any other player. As the most expensive in our history you might think the opposite would be true. Last season the players around Ozil, Giroud in particular,were to blame for Ozil's lack of end product. This season its that he was being played out of position. I think he has marvellous vision and technical ability but is not doing it enough to justify the price tag. He is more than capable of turning it around though.

Personally I give him leeway as I watched a lot of Madrid games while he was there and I've seen the player he is when provided with a team system that suits his style. Counter attacking football with pace. He comes alive.

Our style of play has been very ponderous with Walcott out of the side and having a slow target man up top with Giroud. It's not ideal for Ozil to play with. I think you can argue playing him out of position is an issue that can influence his form - he's done okay out there, he just has not set the world a light.

I think once Walcott is back, Sanchez has settled in and now with welbeck up top we will see Ozil come alive with pace to work with - given that he is in the centre. It's his bread and butter playing with guys like that and will probable be the first time he's been given a chance to show his vision and technical ability on a more consistent basis.

If he fails with players like that around him going forward and playing in position then I will be the first to say he should be doing much better than he is.

Marty McFly

Sagna saying he left to further his career and he understands Arsenal fans frustration watching players leave whilst calling Arsenal " a family"

Beating that drum two years to late, his best years are about three years behind him, Debuchy for me has already looked an upgrade.

MaxPower89

Marty McFly wrote: »

Sagna saying he left to further his career and he understands Arsenal fans frustration watching players leave whilst calling Arsenal " a family"

Beating that drum two years to late, his best years are about three years behind him, Debuchy for me has already looked an upgrade.

Most definitely an upgrade offensively, hell Debuchy can cross the ball! :eek:

greendom

HazDanz wrote: »

Personally I give him leeway as I watched a lot of Madrid games while he was there and I've seen the player he is when provided with a team system that suits his style. Counter attacking football with pace. He comes alive.

Our style of play has been very ponderous with Walcott out of the side and having a slow target man up top with Giroud. It's not ideal for Ozil to play with. I think you can argue playing him out of position is an issue that can influence his form - he's done okay out there, he just has not set the world a light.

I think once Walcott is back, Sanchez has settled in and now with welbeck up top we will see Ozil come alive with pace to work with - given that he is in the centre. It's his bread and butter playing with guys like that and will probable be the first time he's been given a chance to show his vision and technical ability on a more consistent basis.

If he fails with players like that around him going forward and playing in position then I will be the first to say he should be doing much better than he is.

That doesn't wash with me, for a player of his undoubted talent and ability, he should be able to adjust to the players around him and to the position he is asked to play in (as long as he's not asked to play in goal or at centre back)

Fuzzy_Dunlop

greendom wrote: »

That doesn't wash with me, for a player of his undoubted talent and ability, he should be able to adjust to the players around him and to the position he is asked to play in (as long as he's not asked to play in goal or at centre back)

How do you think Fabregas would cope on the wing?

[edit] And I don't even think Ozil has necessarily been bad on the wing, just not as effective as in the middle.

Y2KBOS86

Marty McFly wrote: »

You're right we don't we have two players when everyone is fit who should occupy his space that play to a higher level in Ramsey and Ozil.

Cesc is still better than Ramsey.

Stop being biased.

Cesc has played at a higher level for years, Ramsey has only played at a good level for 18 months.

We laugh at pool fans saying Coutinho is better than Ozil :-P

Cesc and Ozil are much different players, Cesc is a lot stronger, better tackler, better in the air, much higher work rate, while Ozil is a better dribbler, more mobile.

Wenger was an idiot comparing Ozil to Cesc.

Ozil's position doesn't exist in the prem, he is a support striker here, who doesn't score much.

You can't play Ozil in midfield, he doesn't press people and work hard enough to win the ball back.

I don't blame Wenger for putting him on the wing , its that or the bench.

Midfield of Ramsey, Arteta, Cesc with Theo + Sanchez and Giroud/Welbeck up top is so much more balanced and tougher.

Wenger saved Wilshere's career by not signing Cesc

Marty McFly

greendom wrote: »

That doesn't wash with me, for a player of his undoubted talent and ability, he should be able to adjust to the players around him and to the position he is asked to play in (as long as he's not asked to play in goal or at centre back)

Not really how many people in here defended Giroud saying we didn't play to his strengths.

Why buy Ozil and not play to his?

I think we will by the way when everyone is fit.

For instance since people have mentioned Cesc would he have the same assists with Giroud as Costa I seriously doubt it. Costa is always looking to run off the last man.

You buy one of the best no10 in the world you play them in that position and have players making the runs to suit there game and let them dictate the flow of the game.

AdamD

Cesc isn't better than Ramsey. 18 months is no longer 'form'.

greendom

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

How do you think Fabregas would cope on the wing?

[edit] And I don't even think Ozil has necessarily been bad on the wing, just not as effective as in the middle.

I'm not getting into the Fab vs Ozil debate but he should be able to do a job if asked

wonga77

Marty McFly wrote: »

Not really how many people in here defended Giroud saying we didn't play to his strengths.

Why buy Ozil and not play to his?

I think we will by the way when everyone is fit.

For instance since people have mentioned Cesc would he have the same assists with Giroud as Costa I seriously doubt it. Costa is always looking to run off the last man.

You buy one of the best no10 in the world you play them in that position and have players making the runs to suit there game and let them dictate the flow of the game.

Reminds me of that great Zlatan quote

"When you buy me, you are buying a Ferrari. If you drive a Ferrari you put premium fuel in the tank, you drive onto the motorway and you floor the accelerator. Guardiola filled up with diesel and went for a spin in the countryside. If that’s what he wanted, he should have bought himself a Fiat from the start"

Fuzzy_Dunlop

greendom wrote: »

I'm not getting into the Fab vs Ozil debate but he should be able to do a job if asked

And he has done a job there, but we're saying that he's obviously not going to be at his best there.

Marty McFly

AdamD wrote: »

Cesc isn't better than Ramsey. 18 months is no longer 'form'.

Nor did Wenger not signing Cesc save Wilsheres career :pac:. Unless your implying Cesc would have taken Wilshere's spot on the bench.

HazDanz

greendom wrote: »

That doesn't wash with me, for a player of his undoubted talent and ability, he should be able to adjust to the players around him and to the position he is asked to play in (as long as he's not asked to play in goal or at centre back)

These are the stats for Ozil last season: successful passes per game (55), key passes per game (2.58), chances created per game (2.92), and passing completion percentage (88%).

These stats are better than the other top Premier League attacking midfielders from last season which includes Mata, Hazard, Coutinho, and Eriksen.

World cup out wide he had more key passes, chances created, and a better passing completion percentage than Neymar, and Rodriguez even though those boys they were hailed as stars of the world cup.

I just think he gets heavy criticism at times which is a bit harsh. I think you could argue he has done a good job of adjusting to our system, just I feel our system does not ustilise all his strengths as we should do with a bit of pace.

Y2KBOS86

AdamD wrote: »

Cesc isn't better than Ramsey. 18 months is no longer 'form'.

Lol.

Only on this forum

Alfred Borden

The only way I would want Cesc back is if we persisted with Ozil on the left. But once Ozil goes back to #10, no chance. I think people are forgetting that Fabregas isnt the same player that left us. He wasnt too great for Barca and Ozil was head and shoulders above him at Madrid. If Ramseys last 18 months can be attributed to form then Fabregas' last 3 matches can also be form. Once Ozil toughens up and goes back to #10, i have every bit of confidence that Ozil is the superior player.

Mr Blobby

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Lol.

Only on this forum

For the past year or more Cesc has been very poor! Ramsey was on another level to Cesc last year.

Also the fact that you said you'd want Cesc over Ozil show you have no clue what type of player Cesc is.

Skylinehead

More Cesc talk

Soups123

greendom wrote: »

Ozil seems to get more lee-way from fans than any other player. As the most expensive in our history you might think the opposite would be true. Last season the players around Ozil, Giroud in particular,were to blame for Ozil's lack of end product. This season its that he was being played out of position. I think he has marvellous vision and technical ability but is not doing it enough to justify the price tag. He is more than capable of turning it around though.

I think last years performance was good, think of other high profile signings joining the league and allowing settling in time (Hazard as close example), he still managed some excellent stats last year. I think his effect isnt always noticable to game watchers, his movement, his creation of space and his simple killer pass sometimes people see him as lazy but miss all of the above.

On the excuses for this season, well there can't be any the guy has played 2 games and had no preseason. Discussion/assessment/excuses can't be done yet.

greendom wrote: »

That doesn't wash with me, for a player of his undoubted talent and ability, he should be able to adjust to the players around him and to the position he is asked to play in (as long as he's not asked to play in goal or at centre back)

I agree to an extent with this, he should be able to adapt but the question has to be asked why spend the most money we have ever spent and then not play him in his right position??? Seems mad to me.

Price tag always leads people to expect more but tbf thats not the players fault.

Hyzepher

I'd be interested in hearing, for those who feel Ozil has been poor, what exactly do you think his role is? What is it you want him to do that he isn't doing.

I remember seeing a clip of Ozil's performances last season and the one thing that stood out was the lack of finishing from an Ozil pass.

He's not there to score goals, or to put in the tough challenges.

What is it exactly that you want from him. Is easy to say he's under performing - but under performing at what exactly?

Nemeses2050

wonga77 wrote: »

Reminds me of that great Zlatan quote

"When you buy me, you are buying a Ferrari. If you drive a Ferrari you put premium fuel in the tank, you drive onto the motorway and you floor the accelerator. Guardiola filled up with diesel and went for a spin in the countryside. If that’s what he wanted, he should have bought himself a Fiat from the start"

That is one of the best quotes I've come across...Zlatan you beauty...:D

salmocab

well he is underperforming right now but thats because he is stuck out wide and isn't great at doing a wingers job for example beating a player and getting a cross in but thats certainly not his fault when he gets back to the middle he will be brilliant again his positional sense and vision are brilliant thru the centre.

Ken Shamrock

Hyzepher wrote: »

I'd be interested in hearing, for those who feel Ozil has been poor, what exactly do you think his role is? What is it you want him to do that he isn't doing.

I remember seeing a clip of Ozil's performances last season and the one thing that stood out was the lack of finishing from an Ozil pass.

He's not there to score goals, or to put in the tough challenges.

What is it exactly that you want from him. Is easy to say he's under performing - but under performing at what exactly?

Everyone on the pitch is there to score goals, that is objective of the game, it doesn't matter where you play or who you think you are you should try to score goals.

Just because he's great at passing and creating chances doesn't mean he can completely neglect 2 major sides of the game, he never wins 50/50's and he never wins the ball back, he lose's his sh1t in front of the goal and will always opt for a pass even when it would make sense to shoot.

Sanchez has been playing striker and has been phenomenal at chasing players down and winning the ball back, ox,wilshere,ramsey all do the same, Ozil is not special and exempt from tackling just because he has other attributes.

Ed Winchester

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Everyone on the pitch is there to score goals, that is objective of the game, it doesn't matter where you play or who you think you are you should try to score goals.

Just because he's great at passing and creating chances doesn't mean he can completely neglect 2 major sides of the game, he never wins 50/50's and he never wins the ball back, he lose's his sh1t in front of the goal and will always opt for a pass even when it would make sense to shoot.

Sanchez has been playing striker and has been phenomenal at chasing players down and winning the ball back, ox,wilshere,ramsey all do the same, Ozil is not special and exempt from tackling just because he has other attributes.

Thats a REALLY simplistic view of the game Bob.

Ken Shamrock

Ed Winchester wrote: »

Thats a REALLY simplistic view of the game Bob.

That's not my view of the game, i'm just stating the obvious, if the opportunity presents itself you try to score it's quite simple.

Moat_Cailin

I think every man and his dog know that Ozil needs to be an attacking Centre Midfielder. That's his position, that's the role his strengths shine and weaknesses will be hid.

For me as an attacking midfielder he doesn't and hasn't scored enough goals. His shooting and finishing aren't great, but, anyone that watched him before Arsenal knew that. What makes him special is his passing and movement, he's a world class play maker. He's not the type that can do it on his own, he has to given the right role and needs the players around him.

For me i'd like him to be a little more direct at times, and look to inject some urgency into a game. He has very good control and dribbling, which I think he can do more with.

Bottom line is when he plays in his correct role and with the players he now has around him, I think we will see the world class talent he is.

Redzer7

Jesus International breaks are so shít!!

omega man

The answer to the Cesc v Ozil debate is easy.

Cesc is NOT an arsenal player. Ozil is. Support our players, end of.

P.s. No harm in a bit of debate but less of the Ozil bashing. He's a gooner after all. Cescs time came and went so let's move on.

Ken Shamrock

omega man wrote: »

The answer to the Cesc v Ozil debate is easy.

Cesc is NOT an arsenal player. Ozil is. Support our players, end of.

P.s. No harm in a bit of debate but less of the Ozil bashing. He's a gooner after all. Cescs time came and went so let's move on.

This is one of the only things i hate about this forum.

Hyzepher

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Everyone on the pitch is there to score goals, that is objective of the game, it doesn't matter where you play or who you think you are you should try to score goals.

Just because he's great at passing and creating chances doesn't mean he can completely neglect 2 major sides of the game, he never wins 50/50's and he never wins the ball back, he lose's his sh1t in front of the goal and will always opt for a pass even when it would make sense to shoot.

Sanchez has been playing striker and has been phenomenal at chasing players down and winning the ball back, ox,wilshere,ramsey all do the same, Ozil is not special and exempt from tackling just because he has other attributes.

When Ozil was lighting up La Liga he was scoring about 1 in 6 for Real Madrid - guess what, he's continued that for us.

Passing instead of shooting seems to be something that all Arsenal players are guilty of. Maybe it's a MF trait and we play with a lot of midfielders.

To say he never wins the ball back is harsh - but then again his pass completion rate is so high that maybe the odd time that he does lose it isn't registering within your sample data.

Oh that reminds me, next time we have the Szczęsny debate I'll need to bring up his lack of goals as a negative. Come to think of it I can use that against all the back 5

Muirshin Durkin

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

This is one of the only things i hate about this forum.

I could say the same about 90% of your posts bob. What's wrong with what he said?

Ken Shamrock

Hyzepher wrote: »

When Ozil was lighting up La Liga he was scoring about 1 in 6 for Real Madrid - guess what, he's continued that for us.

Passing instead of shooting seems to be something that all Arsenal players are guilty of. Maybe it's a MF trait and we play with a lot of midfielders.

To say he never wins the ball back is harsh - but then again his pass completion rate is so high that maybe the odd time that he does lose it isn't registering within your sample data.

Oh that reminds me, next time we have the Szczęsny debate I'll need to bring up his lack of goals as a negative. Come to think of it I can use that against all the back 5

And the MF passing instead of shooting is a big problem and where we have the whole Arsenal always try to walk it in sh1t. He doesn't win the ball back it's just a fact lad.

Yes because an attacking midfielder and the back 4 should be contributing the same amount of goals? Your just being silly now especially with your keeper reference. Kosc is a great goalscorer for a CB as was Vermaelen and i can see Debuchy popping in 3 or 4 this year.

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

I could say the same about 90% of your posts bob. What's wrong with what he said?

There's a thing called "ignore list" put me on it. What's wrong is that he said Ozil is better because he play's for Arsenal, it's just being completely biased. Cesc vs Ozil is easily settled, because Ozil plays for Arsenal... go ask the man u liverpool and city fans what they think of that statement.

Muirshin Durkin

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

There's a thing called "ignore list" put me on it. What's wrong is that he said Ozil is better because he play's for Arsenal, it's just being completely biased. Cesc vs Ozil is easily settled, because Ozil plays for Arsenal... go ask the man u liverpool and city fans what they think of that statement.

He said support your players, no? Not about a player being better because they play for Arsenal. You should try it sometime instead of calling the likes of Welbeck a flop before even kicking a ball for us.

Roaster

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

.... There's a thing called "ignore list" put me on it. What's wrong is that he said Ozil is better because he play's for Arsenal, it's just being completely biased. .....

No he didn't. He said Ozil is an Arsenal player, support your players.

Ken Shamrock

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

He said support your players, no? Not about a player being better because they play for Arsenal. You should try it sometime instead of calling the likes of Welbeck a flop before even kicking a ball for us.

Support as in pretend he's better than Cesc, some people in here just want to believe our players are better than everyone else's just because they're Arsenal players.

Eh sorry what? Show me a post where i called Welbeck a flop?? You can't.

Hyzepher

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Yes because an attacking midfielder and the back 4 should be contributing the same amount of goals? Your just being silly now especially with your keeper reference. Kosc is a great goalscorer for a CB as was Vermaelen and i can see Debuchy popping in 3 or 4 this year.

Your the one who suggested that scoring goals was the most important thing for ALL players on the pitch. My tongue in cheek remark was to highlight that different players have different roles. Ozil's role is not to make hard tackles and score the goals

Muirshin Durkin

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Support as in pretend he's better than Cesc, some people in here just want to believe our players are better than everyone else's just because they're Arsenal players.

Eh sorry what? Show me a post where i called Welbeck a flop?? You can't.

You seriously are hard work., what the hell are you talking about?

Im not looking through your posts, i'll get a migrain, you might not of called him a flop directly but im nearly 100% certain you where slating him (along with half the team).

Irish Aris

Redzer7 wrote: »

Jesus International breaks are so shít!!

and still 9 days until the next game. . .

Ed Winchester

AAAHHHH HEEEEYORRRRR LEEEEAAVE IRRRROOUUUU!

Sanogo is better than Zlatan. Support the team!

Ken Shamrock

Hyzepher wrote: »

Your the one who suggested that scoring goals was the most important thing for ALL players on the pitch. My tongue in cheek remark was to highlight that different players have different roles. Ozil's role is not to make hard tackles and score the goals

Haha jesus christ lads, that's not what i said at all, i said scoring goals is the objective of the game and regardless what position you play if you have the opportunity to score you should take it.

Player's have different roles of course, but they are all over paid professional's you should be in some way decent in most aspects of the game, being an attacking midfielder Ozil should be comfortable in front of goal no?

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

You seriously are hard work., what the hell are you talking about?

Im not looking through your posts, i'll get a migrain, you might not of called him a flop directly but im nearly 100% certain you where slating him (along with half the team).

Your really clutching at straws here pal. I never called him a flop, said he wouldn't work or anything of the sort. I said i didn't like him, is that not ok? Is it not acceptable to not like a ****ing footballer? Nobody had a problem with me not liking him when he played for United?

Along with halve the team? Yeah try something else. You also need to get your priority's straight because your coming out with nonsense and complete false accusation's wasting your time arguing with a poster who you apparently hate so would it not make sense for you to ignore me and move on?

byrneg28

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Everyone on the pitch is there to score goals, that is objective of the game, it doesn't matter where you play or who you think you are you should try to score goals.

Just because he's great at passing and creating chances doesn't mean he can completely neglect 2 major sides of the game, he never wins 50/50's and he never wins the ball back, he lose's his sh1t in front of the goal and will always opt for a pass even when it would make sense to shoot.

Sanchez has been playing striker and has been phenomenal at chasing players down and winning the ball back, ox,wilshere,ramsey all do the same, Ozil is not special and exempt from tackling just because he has other attributes.

Please support Chelsea

HazDanz

Bit of a break to next game so might see get a response to this.

What is the greatest performance from an Arsenal player ever?

My first nomination from the top of my head would be Henry away to Milan, He led an attack to beat inter 5-1 away from home when beating Inter looked really unlikely after they beat us 3-0 in the reverse leg already.

Great memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhrFPRI4Dk

tayto lover

wonga77 wrote: »

Id also like to add that I have Ozil backed to be have top assists in the league this year, he'd want to pull the thumb out!

I fancy him to be player of the season but he does need to step up. He's had a slow start but he will undoubtedly improve.
I wasn't too impressed with seeing him pull out of a few challenges either.

byrneg28

HazDanz wrote: »

Bit of a break to next game so might see get a response to this.

What is the greatest performance from an Arsenal player ever?

My first nomination from the top of my head would be Henry away to Milan, He led an attack to beat inter 5-1 away from home when beating Inter looked really unlikely after they beat us 3-0 in the reverse leg already.

Great memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGhrFPRI4Dk

What is the greatest performance by an Arsenal player ever? - See more at: http://www.goodplaya.com/blog/what-is-the-greatest-performance-by-an-arsenal-player-ever/#sthash.NiNAGcAX.dpuf

easy.

Nemeses2050

Redzer7 wrote: »

Jesus International breaks are so shít!!

double like for that...:D

I seriously don't get why they've these interlulls so early in the season

Skylinehead

Bergkamp Leicester.

Bergkamp Everton 2005.

Basically Bergkamp.

omega man

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Support as in pretend he's better than Cesc, some people in here just want to believe our players are better than everyone else's just because they're Arsenal players.

Eh sorry what? Show me a post where i called Welbeck a flop?? You can't.

My point was to forget about cesc as he is another clubs player and has been for years now. Did you really think I meant ozil was better simply because he plays for arsenal?

I'm getting bored of cesc talk. The Chelsea thread is that way >

Ken Shamrock

omega man wrote: »

My point was to forget about cesc as he is another clubs player and has been for years now. Did you really think I meant ozil was better simply because he plays for arsenal?

I'm getting bored of cesc talk. The Chelsea thread is that way >

That's fair enough. Yes that is what i thought you meant, it's the way people go on here i've posted about it before, just because someone play's for Arsenal doesn't mean you have to be biased.

Are we not allowed discuss players from other clubs here? Someone just posted a video of Arshavin he hasn't played for us in years...:rolleyes: