Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

brianregan09

I'd also be of the opinion that we'll clatter BVB and Villa next week

emergingstar

Think we will struggle tues that was a very hard game today

Quazzie

emergingstar wrote: »

I don't mind your opinions or worries I don't agree with most but that's ok we can debate and give our opinions

The ****e I was on about was the "wengerites" jibe just a stupid comment that adds nothing to the debate

Wengerites is a reference to the people on here, and lets be honest there are a few, who think that any questioning of Wenger is sacrilege, and somehow tarnishes his past. I think Wenger done an immense job in keeping us where he has, for as long as he has. I don't think there is another manager in World football that could've done it. Not even Fergie. Actually to see him listed as a manager who won it on a limited budget is laughable when you see the fee paid for Rio, Rooney etc.. Wenger done an amazing job, and he will always be a massive part of the club, but I think now that the financial restraints, are looser if not necessarily lifted, he should step aside and we should be looking for a more modern manager. I think Wenger's decision to stay will tarnish his legendary status with the club. I think his glory days are behind him and I think some very basic flaws in his thinking are being highlighted.

Some people here will call that nonsense and will try to refute it, no doubt with reference to how we'd no money for so long, but that excuse won't last long, and then I will wonder what the Wengerites will use to back up their claims.

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

Oh, OK. So you're planning to fire Wenger, get in a new manager who will always be outspent by at least 3 teams and judge him on his league finish alone.

Smart move.

It's not always about money. We were so close last year but were short 1 or 2 signings who could have made all the difference. Not bank busting signings but strength in depth.
It will be the same story this year most likely and there is plenty money there now

gosplan

Quazzie wrote: »

Here are the important stats

2010-11 - 4th 68 points

2011-12 - 3rd 70 points

2012-13 - 4th 73 points

2013-14 - 4th 79 points

sign of progression there.

FYP.

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

Oh, OK. So you're planning to fire Wenger, get in a new manager who will always be outspent by at least 3 teams and judge him on his league finish alone.

Smart move.

What should we judge him on. His hairstyle, his fashion sense, how he conducts himself at interviews?

The end result should always be how a manager should be judged especially when it is so consistent as the stats prove. Wenger can get the all important CL spot. I'd prefer a manager that can win a league.

gosplan

wonga77 wrote: »

It's not always about money. We were so close last year but were short 1 or 2 signings who could have made all the difference. Not bank busting signings but strength in depth.
It will be the same story this year most likely and there is plenty money there now

So name the managers who did it without money then?

I get what you're saying though. I just think Wenger's playing a smart, long and necessary game.

Y2KBOS86

wonga77 wrote: »

It's not always about money. We were so close last year but were short 1 or 2 signings who could have made all the difference. Not bank busting signings but strength in depth.
It will be the same story this year most likely and there is plenty money there now

Exactly look at Atletico, even Pool last year before the slip.

gosplan

Quazzie wrote: »

What should we judge him on. His hairstyle, his fashion sense, how he conducts himself at interviews?

The end result should always be how a manager should be judged especially when it is so consistent as the stats prove. Wenger can get the all important CL spot. I'd prefer a manager that can win a league.

THERE ARE NONE!!!! THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!!

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

So name the managers who did it without money then?

I get what you're saying though. I just think Wenger's playing a smart, long and necessary game.

We have money now. We don't need to do it without money anymore. That excuse is no longer valid.

gosplan wrote: »

THERE ARE NONE!!!! THERE NEVER HAVE BEEN!!!

greendom

Quazzie wrote: »

Wengerites is a reference to the people on here, and lets be honest there are a few, who think that any questioning of Wenger is sacrilege, and somehow tarnishes his past. I think Wenger done an immense job in keeping us where he has, for as long as he has. I don't think there is another manager in World football that could've done it. Not even Fergie. Actually to see him listed as a manager who won it on a limited budget is laughable when you see the fee paid for Rio, Rooney etc.. Wenger done an amazing job, and he will always be a massive part of the club, but I think now that the financial restraints, are looser if not necessarily lifted, he should step aside and we should be looking for a more modern manager. I think Wenger's decision to stay will tarnish his legendary status with the club. I think his glory days are behind him and I think some very basic flaws in his thinking are being highlighted.

Some people here will call that nonsense and will try to refute it, no doubt with reference to how we'd no money for so long, but that excuse won't last long, and then I will wonder what the Wengerites will use to back up their claims.

I really don't think we should reduce arguments to whether the poster is pro or anti Wenger. It will really polarise things and make it an unpleasant place to be. We're all Arsenal supporters with opinions and let's leave it at that.

wonga77

gosplan wrote: »

So name the managers who did it without money then?

I get what you're saying though. I just think Wenger's playing a smart, long and necessary game.

Your twisting my words, I don't give a flying fcuk about other managers and am not interested in trying to prove some mythical point.
I'm addressing our situation, we were short in key areas as we still are. It hurt us last year and most likely again this year. I blame wenger firmly for that because he has the funds available

Quazzie

greendom wrote: »

I really don't think we should reduce arguments to whether the poster is pro or anti Wenger. It will really polarise things and make it an unpleasant place to be. We're all Arsenal supporters with opinions and let's leave it at that.

Fair point

Alfred Borden

The money cant always be used as an excuse. Its a problem but could argue his tactics are a bigger problem. Looks at Simeone breaking the top 2 in Spain and taking the league.

gosplan

Quazzie wrote: »

We have money now. We don't need to do it without money anymore. That excuse is no longer valid.

1: according to your logic that excuse was never valid because we only judge him on final league position

2: since you now seem to think that there might be other factors and that the finances was actually a valid excuse (didn't stop you posting a few years if misleading league finished to try and cement your argument), it's fair to recognise that in terms if our points total, we've been making steady progress since the financial shackles came off.

The manager you want to hire does not and never has existed, that's my point. As regards the finances, yeah if something bad happened and we dropped out of the CL, we could just spend 100million and get Falcao on loan or something.

gosplan

Raf32 wrote: »

The money cant always be used as an excuse. Its a problem but could argue his tactics are a bigger problem. Looks at Simeone breaking the top 2 in Spain and taking the league.

Granted and I'm fully agreeing that Wenger has his faults but I think to just jump on the managerial merry-go-round and hope to come up with a Simieone or a 40-year-old Fergie is madness.

Quazzie

gosplan wrote: »

1: according to your logic that excuse was never valid because we only judge him on final league position

Read my posts again. Less than five posts ago I stated what he done with such a limited budget was fantastic but he is not the manager to take us to the next level in my opinion.

gosplan wrote: »

2: since you now seem to think that there might be other factors and that the finances was actually a valid excuse (didn't stop you posting a few years if misleading league finished to try and cement your argument), it's fair to recognise that in terms if our points total, we've been making steady progress since the financial shackles came off.

Steady but ineffective.

gosplan wrote: »

The manager you want to hire does not and never has existed, that's my point. As regards the finances, yeah if something bad happened and we dropped out of the CL, we could just spend 100million and get Falcao on loan or something.

I think Klopp could be that manager.

Kirby

Raf32 wrote: »

The money cant always be used as an excuse. Its a problem but could argue his tactics are a bigger problem. Looks at Simeone breaking the top 2 in Spain and taking the league.

Atletico not spending is a myth and I'm not sure why its perpetuated so much. If you look at what they've spent the last few years, it's not surprising they are succeeding.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

Granted and I'm fully agreeing that Wenger has his faults but I think to just jump on the managerial merry-go-round and hope to come up with a Simieone or a 40-year-old Fergie is madness.

Agreed there is probably only 5 in the world that i would take over him at this current time. Nobody could do the job he did during the start of the stadium years but I really dont know if he is the man to take us into this next era. The transfer window has left me unsure over something I was 100% sure of, that he was the right man.

Alfred Borden

Kirby wrote: »

Atletico not spending is a myth and I'm not sure why its perpetuated so much. If you look at what they've spent the last few years, it's not surprising they are succeeding.

But sure we have spent over 100 million in the last year, everyone is spending now.
This is pretty impressive.
"Since the summer of 2009, Atleti have spent €281.8 million on player purchases. Quite a lot over a five-year period, but in that same time the club actually recouped more: €300.1m. Even when big money has been spent, funds have been made available by the sale of some of the team's most marketable assets."
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2014/08/22/5051703/real-madrid-atletico-six-trophies-apiece-since-2010-despite

Hyzepher

The funny thing is that I'd be more worried if I was a City fan.

They just conceded two goals to a team who can't score, have no strikers, their biggest transfer is a dud, their defense is slow and clueless, their manager doesn't know how to spend and is a tactical moron - and they also couldn't hang onto a lead with 20 trillizion pounds of talent

Soups123

This place is bad enough after a defeat but the over reaction today is just pure stupid.

There's one or two posters here I'm 110% convinced aren't Arsenal fans.

As for today other than the last 10 mins we were very good, looks like we are starting to gel. Other than the Leicester result the others have been fine.

Course we'd have like'd more pts but other than Chelsea nobody has got going yet.

Alfred Borden

Im not too upset by the result, its Debuchys injury which was inevitable. Just highlights how poor our deadline day was, been left short again.

greendom

Raf32 wrote: »

Im not too upset by the result, its Debuchys injury which was inevitable. Just highlights how poor our deadline day was, been left short again.

absolutely right, but we may have got lucky for now...

Debuchy on Facebook: "I have to pass a medical exam on Monday. No fracture. Hope to be back asap!"

Soups123

Raf32 wrote: »

Im not too upset by the result, its Debuchys injury which was inevitable. Just highlights how poor our deadline day was, been left short again.

I don't think there is anyone in here that will defend Arsene for the lack of defensive cover, he had all summer. It's the one thing about the whole summer I just don't get

Alfred Borden

greendom wrote: »

absolutely right, but we may have got lucky for now...

Debuchy on Facebook: "I have to pass a medical exam on Monday. No fracture. Hope to be back asap!"

We shouldnt have to be riding our luck though. Imagine if Kos gets injured and we go to the bridge with a defence like this Chambers-Mert-Monreal-Gibbs. Its gonna be embarrassing and probably worse than last year.

WoollyRedHat

Relax lads ,, ring a ding ding, here comes Bellerin.. And knock knock knock, it's the big ****ing German, you won't get past us cause we got Kos, watch out boys, because here comes Kieran!!

.jacksparrow.

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Just a little bit??

Were ****ed.

I'm not allowed to say that though.

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

Worrying stats when compared to Cesc.

Yeah it's pretty annoying just how many assists he has with Costa. Obviously though they were all ****, can't make logical stuff on here :pac:

gosplan

Love the way everyone's ignoring the fact Wilshire was excellent again.

gnfnrhead

gosplan wrote: »

Love the way everyone's ignoring the fact Wilshire was excellent again.

Get out of here with that positivity! :mad:


:pac:

emergingstar

If debuchy is out for 2+months I reckon bellerin will become our starting right back and stay there

We could have a cole/slivhnio situation here

Yes I think bellerin is that good

salmocab

Didn't see the game or even highlights but did hear some of it on the radio, it sounds like it was a decent performance, pity we couldn't hang on for the win. I think that I would rather a LW than a CF at this stage, Ozil is wasted out there and I can see him itching to move next summer if he is continually played out of position.

gosplan

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Get out of here with that positivity! :mad:


:pac:

Nah, if I was being positive I'd say Wilshire was excellent again AFTER looking poor for some time being played a lot on the wing. I'd point out that Ramsey came into excellent form AFTER looking poor for some time being played on the wing. Then I'd throw in some crazy logic and quote Wenger saying that this is part of the education of his central players and somehow link this to Ozil who someone here yesterday said we should sell, like Wilshire before him, like Ramsey before him.

Then for aome extra positivity I'd point out that Sanchez looks to be the first genuine world class attacker since RVP left.

Then I'd point out that Welbeck looks to be a good purchase.

emergingstar

gosplan wrote: »

Nah, if I was being positive I'd say Wilshire was excellent again AFTER looking poor for some time being played a lot on the wing. I'd point out that Ramsey came into excellent form AFTER looking poor for some time being played on the wing. Then I'd throw in some crazy logic and quote Wenger saying that this is part of the education of his central players and somehow link this to Ozil who someone here yesterday said we should sell, like Wilshire before him, like Ramsey before him.

Then for aome extra positivity I'd point out that Sanchez looks to be the first genuine world class attacker since RVP left.

Then I'd point out that Welbeck looks to be a good purchase.

I wouldn't be Suprised if you get a ban for that post

gosplan

Actually I got a yellow yesterday for telling people not to quote Y2K.

Sorry about that Y2K. Will try to remain more respectful in future.

.jacksparrow.

I guess some of us here are getting sick of been told to "take the positives" out of another draw against a top rival at home.

How predictable was it we were gonna concede again when we went 2-1 up yesterday?

emergingstar

How I want the team to line out soon

greendom

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

I guess some of us here are getting sick of been told to "take the positives" out of another draw against a top rival at home.

How predictable was it we were gonna concede again when we went 2-1 up yesterday?

Surely, as a fan, its more rewarding to take the positives out of a performance rather than the negatives. That was our best performance of the season against a top rival who had to resort to under-hand tactics to compete. Shows plenty of promise for the rest if the season

Gringo180

Just watching our second goal again, jaysus what a strike from Sanchez. I think he is going to be a legend at Arsenal, his work rate is extraordinary at times. Some of our play yesterday was outstanding too, at times it was like the invincibles, but one thing that frustrated me was the over playing and trying to pass the ball into the net, dont no how many times I roared at the tele to shoot.

gosplan

greendom wrote: »

Surely, as a fan, its more rewarding to take the positives out of a performance rather than the negatives. That was our best performance of the season against a top rival who had to resort to under-hand tactics to compete. Shows plenty of promise for the rest if the season

It was also the first time we've attacked well without Arteta for a couple of years. He does a very important Xavi type job for us and we've always looked unbelievably flat and one paced without him.

People are going nuts for an out and out DMF but bringing one into a team that scored 60 odd goals last season would be nuts.

Boskowski

Not sure what the story is with Özil. I really like him very much, but for his first couple of months he looked like a moody teenager in his Arsenal career to date. He wasn't one bit sharp yesterday either. Was struggling with his touches his passes weren't crisp at all. Then when the ball was lost his now typical mouth down turn the head shoulder shrug fedupness.

He's our (Germany) prize possession and while I really love the man as a player he needs to work on his attitude. A couple more months like this and he's in danger of being called a failure. He's almost 26, he's not having the benefit of being a talent. He's supposed to be the real article now.

Come on Mesut, show a bit of fight will ya.

.jacksparrow.

greendom wrote: »

Surely, as a fan, its more rewarding to take the positives out of a performance rather than the negatives. That was our best performance of the season against a top rival who had to resort to under-hand tactics to compete. Shows plenty of promise for the rest if the season

We didn't win though.

To me its the same story as last season.

bad2dabone

I'm a critic of wenger and a fan at the same time.
But regardless of your stance on the man, replacing him will be a huge task.
Get it wrong and we'll be facing europa league or worse. Get it right and we might finally address the critical and glaring deficiencies we see and really mount a challenge.

.jacksparrow.

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm a critic of wenger and a fan at the same time.
But regardless of your stance on the man, replacing him will be a huge task.
Get it wrong and we'll be facing europa league or worse. Get it right and we might finally address the critical and glaring deficiencies we see and really mount a challenge.

Totally agree, don't want him gone.

But at the same time we should be allowed criticise his flaws.

Gringo180

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm a critic of wenger and a fan at the same time.
But regardless of your stance on the man, replacing him will be a huge task.
Get it wrong and we'll be facing europa league or worse. Get it right and we might finally address the critical and glaring deficiencies we see and really mount a challenge.

I agree and hopefully when we play the likes of City, Chelsea, Utd etc away we set up to contain them even for the first hour of the game, sitting deep and playing a counter attacking game. I would go with the likes of Monreal at full back and Gibbs on the wing and Debuchy right back with Ox on the wing, that way it gives us plenty of cover on the flanks were we always seem to get punished from in the big games.

gosplan

bad2dabone wrote: »

I'm a critic of wenger and a fan at the same time.
But regardless of your stance on the man, replacing him will be a huge task.
Get it wrong and we'll be facing europa league or worse. Get it right and we might finally address the critical and glaring deficiencies we see and really mount a challenge.

Totally agree.

We're the tortoise IMO and City and Chelsea are the hares.

For me as long as Wenger can show consistant year on year improvement in terms of points total, he has to stay.

The way it's looking, we won't compete with this Chelsea squad but these teams have shown us that it's all about 2 or 3 year cycles before it all changes again. We will win one if those seasons.

I know we have money now but when you look at how Utd have reacted to a bad season and the money Jose has spent in 12 months, we can't match that spend. Jose is doing a fine job but he's brought in 4 strikers and a load of midfielders. They're spending 20-30 million on squad fillers. What they have now that's special is that trio of Hazard, Fab and Costa but they've gone through Mata, Willian, Schurrle etc to get there. I'm not knocking Chelsea, just pointing out that we can't match that.

tayto lover

emergingstar wrote: »

How I want the team to line out soon

A pound to a penny Wenger would never play that team.

tayto lover

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Totally agree, don't want him gone.

But at the same time we should be allowed criticise his flaws.

We are allowed criticise.
I praise when he gets it right and criticise when he doesn't. Same with the players.
That's what the forum is about.
I wanted a good DM brought in and when you see what Falmini did yesterday i have a right to complain. He and Arteta are no longer good enough against top midfields in my view.

brianregan09

The negativity in here is mental sometimes our results have been more or less the same if not better so far

Man City last season was 1-1 and was a dead game , This season we should have beaten them

Everton stuffed us last year, this season we came away with a point

Palace we beat home and away last year , on course to do the same

Leicester weren't in the prem last season, But we did beat all the promoted clubs away last year so thats points dropped