Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Soups123

Hyzepher wrote: »

Personally I like Giroud. I think he works hard, has a lot to offer and scores goals. Do I think he's good enough to be the main striker in a championship winning team - yes I do.

Do I agree that this is his last season to prove himself - no. In fact those that suggest it is need to re-evaluate his contribution so far. He had a great 2013-2014 season. Scored 16 league goals - 6th highest in the league (Both Suarez and Sturridge failed to win the league).

He has the potential to kick on from this and if he gives us the same stats next season we should be overjoyed.

Is it possible to buy a better striker - yes of course, but don't take away from what Giroud has given us as if it is sub-bar and he's a second rate striker

I'd agree with a lot of this. However I think there are area's he needs to improve on this season if we are going to challenge but I also feel they are area's he has the potential to improve on.

I think he needs a challenger and someone to share the load with because he was overplayed last year.

To play him as the main forward Wenger needs to have the right players around and that appears to be what he is trying to do.

Hyzepher

I'd like to think of Giroud as an Alan Smith type of player. Put some speedy guys around him who can finish and suddenly the team becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Think of all those rebound goals he's going to get with Walcott, Sanchez and Ramsey all raining shots n the opposition goal. Not to mention the added options Ozil and Cazorla will have.

Ed Winchester

Disappointed Eisfield never got more of a chance, he has literally buckets of potential but never got much of an opportunity to show it with us. I've a feeling he'll kick on now and we'll be hearing more about him in the future.
Good luck to the lad.

Soups123

Hyzepher wrote: »

I'd like to think of Giroud as an Alan Smith type of player. Put some speedy guys around him who can finish and suddenly the team becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Think of all those rebound goals he's going to get with Walcott, Sanchez and Ramsey all raining shots n the opposition goal. Not to mention the added options Ozil and Cazorla will have.

From an attacking perspective going into this season this is probably the most excited I have been for years. When you look at Giroud, Sanchez, Walcott, Ramsey, Ozil & The Ox its a huge amount of talent.

I feel we are a top class DM away from being serious contenders

Paj

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Giroud is not the best striker in the world, and there are most certainly 20+ better strikers out there than him, just because he plays for "your" club doesn't all of a sudden make him a star, most prob never even heard of him when he was in France.

My 2 cents on Giroud, I don’t think he’s a “star striker”, I do think there are many better strikers than him in world football.
He has no pace and his finishing is erratic.
However he’s a really strong target man and his link up play is excellent. His work rate and fitness are top notch. For a guy who cost 10 – 12m he’s performed admirably.

speedboatchase

Paj wrote: »

My 2 cents on Giroud, I don’t think he’s a “star striker”, I do think there are many better strikers than him in world football.
He has no pace and his finishing is erratic.
However he’s a really strong target man and his link up play is excellent. His work rate and fitness are top notch. For a guy who cost 10 – 12m he’s performed admirably.

And he's really attractive.

gosplan

So all in all we can agree that Giroud is not going to be the striker who drags his team to titles but that he can be an excellent piece of the jigsaw provided the other pieces aren't missing.

I'd like to add one caveat.

Giroud was 25 when he arrived at Arsenal and scored 17 and 22 goals in his first 2 seasons.

Drogba was 26 when he arrived at Chelsea and went 16,16 in his first 2 seasons.

In total Drogba got 157 in 341 for Chelsea.

Giroud is on 39 in 98.

The only difference is that as Drogba won lots and as he neared his 30's he put it all together and started scoring when it really mattered.

IMO Giroud has the potential to do this. Big strikers don't work the same way as 24 year old speedy wingers. There's a lot of experience and intelligence about the role and they nearly always hit their greatest years in their late 20's/early 30's.

Hyzepher

Giroud just needs space to be effective. Walcott and Sanchez should help to provide that space as the opposition need to cover them. Last season we were too one dimensional and it was easy for defenders to close us out.

greendom

So Barca sign a 31 year old defender capped twice for France for 20 million. Who says there isn't value in the EPL? Debuchy for one.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

So Barca sign a 31 year old defender capped twice for France for 20 million. Who says there isn't value in the EPL? Debuchy for one.

Well to be fair, he's predominately a left back, and a very good one at that, he's also 30 not 31 and the reason he's been left out of the french squad is because of Evra and Clichy.

Kirby

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Well to be fair, he's predominately a left back, and a very good one at that, he's also 30 not 31 and the reason he's been left out of the french squad is because of Evra and Clichy.

If that's your best argument for how good he is, you've fallen way short!

I'm a good player honest, it's just that dastardly McShane keeping me out of the squad :P

Marty McFly

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Well to be fair, he's predominately a left back, and a very good one at that, he's also 30 not 31 and the reason he's been left out of the french squad is because of Evra and Clichy.

He's 31 this year.

Also if Clichy and Evra are keeping you out the national side your not that great.

It's a crazy transfer.

Ken Shamrock

Yeah because Evra has just been so **** the last 8 years??? Evra was arguably the best LB in world football for quite some time.

extra gravy

At least Evra and Clichy have had successful careers in top teams with plenty of silverware. Mathieu has only had one good season in an average side.

Mickeroo

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Yeah because Evra has just been so **** the last 8 years??? Evra was arguably the best LB in world football for quite some time.

Keep thinking like that and you'll be England manager soon enough. :pac:

Marty McFly

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Yeah because Evra has just been so **** the last 8 years??? Evra was arguably the best LB in world football for quite some time.

He "was" being the main word there. Hes been declining for some time now.

Even at his peak there were better LB, as much as I'm not a fan he was never at Ashley Coles level.

Now untwist your knickers

Kirby

I actually think Clichy is a decent full back, I was just making a joke. However Evra was always a liability. Lazy as sin. People just refused to see it. And the only people who would argue him being the best fullback in the world for the last 8 years are blinkered United fans.

byrneg28

Hyzepher wrote: »

Giroud just needs space to be effective. Walcott and Sanchez should help to provide that space as the opposition need to cover them. Last season we were too one dimensional and it was easy for defenders to close us out.

Very good point. It doesn't help that most teams defend in 9s and 10s against us, this is what ticks me off about the whole, he doesn't score from outside the box argument.

We don't counter attack as frequently as a team like Liverpool or Chelsea so that doesn't bring up an opportunistic space to exploit.

Wenger also apparently discourages shooting outside the box and would prefer slow build up play to an eventual goal scoring opportunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdhtIK98iYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT9ib5DbGYo

Here's two examples of what happens when he's given space by weak defending...

greendom

Clichy wasn't even picked for France st this year's WC, Deschamps going for the untested Digne instead

Marty McFly

Kirby wrote: »

I actually think Clichy is a decent full back, I was just making a joke. However Evra was always a liability. Lazy as sin. People just refused to see it. And the only people who would argue him being the best fullback in the world for the last 8 years are blinkered United fans.

Clichy was always decent, solid dependable but never world beater.

There was a reason we let him go easily, just a shame Gibbs injuries thus far have stopped him being a big upgrade on Clichy.

Can Gibbs kick on to the next level I sure hope so.

byrneg28

greendom wrote: »

Clichy wasn't even picked for France st this year's WC, Deschamps going for the untested Digne instead

That was as a result of attitude rather than skill

Ken Shamrock

Mickeroo wrote: »

Keep thinking like that and you'll be England manager soon enough. :pac:

Cool

Marty McFly wrote: »

He "was" being the main word there. Hes been declining for some time now.

Even at his peak there were better LB, as much as I'm not a fan he was never at Ashley Coles level.

Now untwist your knickers

Was, which is why mathieu WAS left out of the french side. My knickers are fine, just a bit sweaty.

Kirby wrote: »

I actually think Clichy is a decent full back, I was just making a joke. However Evra was always a liability. Lazy as sin. People just refused to see it. And the only people who would argue him being the best fullback in the world for the last 8 years are blinkered United fans.

I wasn't trying to argue him being the best lb for the last 8 years i said for some of the time.

greendom wrote: »

Clichy wasn't even picked for France st this year's WC, Deschamps going for the untested Digne instead

No but he was picked in the squad for the majority of the last 8 years, keeping mathieu down the pile. Which is the point.

Very simply I THINK he is a decent player and that it isn't a crazy signing, if you think otherwise cool.

MaxPower89

Clichy was decent but ultimately not the complete LB that Cole was or Zabaleta is. We rarely saw him beat a RB and deliver a telling cross or pass. Little in the way of link up play and his normal pass was sideways or backwards. I was happy to see him gone, just never did enough in the final third. Gibbs and Monreal are far better in this regard.

He seem like a decent skin though.

byrneg28

MaxPower89 wrote: »

Clichy was decent but ultimately not the complete LB that Cole was or Zabaleta is. We rarely saw him beat a RB and deliver a telling cross or pass. Little in the way of link up play and his normal pass was sideways or backwards. I was happy to see him gone, just never did enough in the final third. Gibbs and Monreal are far better in this regard.

He seem like a decent skin though.

On a completely unrelated note.

Monreal is poison

Alfred Borden

I actually prefer Monreal to Gibbs :pac:

byrneg28

Raf32 wrote: »

I actually prefer Monreal to Gibbs :pac:

Really? That's insane, my heart does be in my mouth when he's playing, I find him defensively incompetent

Alfred Borden

byrneg28 wrote: »

Really? That's insane, my heart does be in my mouth when he's playing, I find him defensively incompetent

Ya he isnt the best against a bit of speed but Gibbs is hardly great defending either. Monreal is far better going forward and not as wasteful with the ball. Im hoping one of them push on this year or its a position we might have to reevaluate next summer.

Marty McFly

Just had a delusional Liverpool fan tell me Liverpool are now doing what Barcelona and Real have been doing for years buying other clubs best players :pac:

Awesomeness

Marty McFly wrote: »

Just had a delusional Liverpool fan tell me Liverpool are now doing what Barcelona and Real have been doing for years buying other clubs best players :pac:

Is the other club the dog and duck?

Alfred Borden

Marty McFly wrote: »

Just had a delusional Liverpool fan tell me Liverpool are now doing what Barcelona and Real have been doing for years buying other clubs best players :pac:

I suppose they did take Victor Moses of Chelsea and Kolo Toure of City :pac:

Skylinehead

Marty McFly wrote: »

Just had a delusional Liverpool fan tell me Liverpool are now doing what Barcelona and Real have been doing for years buying other clubs best players :pac:

Bit of a difference between signing Man Utd/AC Milans best player and Southampton I think :pac:

Monreal is grand IMO. LB is the only place we've 2 players for that I don't mind which starts. Well technically DM as well but that's for very different reasons. :P

Bounty Hunter

lads try and keep it on topic and that topic isn't Liverpool and Barca's signings.


So seemingly you have your Attacking option, your RB and your sub Goalie... who's next? Haven't actually seen many links to CBs for Arsenal, well at least not when compared to DM, do you think Verm might see out the last year of his contract?

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

lads try and keep it on topic and that topic isn't Liverpool and Barca's signings.


So seemingly you have your Attacking option, your RB and your sub Goalie... who's next? Haven't actually seen many links to CBs for Arsenal, well at least not when compared to DM, do you think Verm might see out the last year of his contract?

Haven't seen many CBs linked apart from Smalling/Jones mentioned as part of the potential Vermaelen deal, and saw Nastatic's name but think it was from one of the rags.

Top DM is what I went next though

emergingstar

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

lads try and keep it on topic and that topic isn't Liverpool and Barca's signings.


So seemingly you have your Attacking option, your RB and your sub Goalie... who's next? Haven't actually seen many links to CBs for Arsenal, well at least not when compared to DM, do you think Verm might see out the last year of his contract?

He will be sold for def

Bounty Hunter

emergingstar wrote: »

He will be sold for def

What makes you so sure? and I notice you don't say he will join Man Utd for def although perhaps that is what you mean, I've not actually seen him linked elsewhere.

emergingstar

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

What makes you so sure? and I notice you don't say he will join Man Utd for def although perhaps that is what you mean, I've not actually seen him linked elsewhere.

No I think he will go to utd, he will be gone before the transfer windows closes 100% sure on that

Alfred Borden

Just an idea but if Chelsea are bringing back Drogba to be a backup striker, why dont we bring back Thierry? Just to sit on the bench, can only see positives from it. His contract is up in December too I think.

Awesomeness

Raf32 wrote: »

Just an idea but if Chelsea are bringing back Drogba to be a backup striker, why dont we bring back Thierry? Just to sit on the bench, can only see positives from it. His contract is up in December too I think.

Because we could already have a stacked bench and it would stop campbell and sanogo getting game time. Thierry is past we need to move on. If we need an option off the bench we have

Podolski Cazorla Rosicky Ox Wilshere Gnabry as well as the Campbell and Sanogo and we can then stick Theo and Alexis up top too.

If he comes back it should be a coach and a coach only

Skylinehead

Plus, y'know, we already did it :pac:

Donnielighto

Marty McFly wrote: »

He's 31 this year.

Also if Clichy and Evra are keeping you out the national side your not that great.

It's a crazy transfer.

Ya, that argument would have had legs to a point but over the last 2/3 years he should have been picking up caps more often. 2 caps is very little. Being behind evra for most of the last decade is no shame and he was rarely injured too, between that and Clichy being at the level he was doesnt make it terrible but I cant see that being value.


Separately, what's the story with Ox, is he best wide or centrally? I really liked him when he came on the scene at first, think he'll fulfil his promise?

Donnielighto

Kirby wrote: »

I actually think Clichy is a decent full back, I was just making a joke. However Evra was always a liability. Lazy as sin. People just refused to see it. And the only people who would argue him being the best fullback in the world for the last 8 years are blinkered United fans.

Don't think you'll find many united players saying he was anywhere near best in the world the last 3 seasons. He was a top drawer player for a while and rightly considered a contender for best lb if not the best over a peroid of his united career.

The laziness issue has been done in the united thread (I assume you've seen it in there). Many think, it's his legs that went rather than anything else, he has been player into the ground at club level due to a complete lack of proper back up.

Donnielighto

Donnielighto wrote: »

Ya, that argument would have had legs to a point but over the last 2/3 years he should have been picking up caps more often. 2 caps is very little. Being behind evra for most of the last decade is no shame and he was rarely injured too, between that and Clichy being at the level he was doesnt make it terrible but I cant see that being value.


Separately, what's the story with Ox, is he best wide or centrally? I really liked him when he came on the scene at first, think he'll fulfil his promise?

Through the middle I'd say. If we play a more direct kind of attacking game this year he could have an excellent season.

Donnielighto

Deleted User wrote: »

Through the middle I'd say. If we play a more direct kind of attacking game this year he could have an excellent season.

Where would you put Ozil in that situation? Presumably you want some of the other speedy out wide.

Also, Arteta, hardly good enough for ye, especially in a withdrawn role?

Awesomeness

Anyone know if we will get a squad list of who is on the plane.

Interesting to see what youngsters make the trip with a few more of the senior lads back

Mickeroo

Donnielighto wrote: »

Where would you put Ozil in that situation? Presumably you want some of the other speedy out wide.

Also, Arteta, hardly good enough for ye, especially in a withdrawn role?

I think Ox will play deeper than Ozil, in the Ramsey role eventually. Would expect him to be played on the wings this year mostly though, as cover for Walcott and Sanchez.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Ox will be used as a squad player to rotate and fill in on the wings and in midfield. I think he's a brilliant player, no need to rush him into playing loads of games yet though.

Donnielighto

Donnielighto wrote: »

Where would you put Ozil in that situation? Presumably you want some of the other speedy out wide.

Also, Arteta, hardly good enough for ye, especially in a withdrawn role?

A proper DM could allow Ozil forward more and Ox to go forward or sit back depending on the situation. One of his strengths is running directly at defenders and causing disruption, which is a bit less effective out with.
It is hard to accommodate him like that I'll admit. :pac: I think he has the discipline to play in CM but then where's Ramsey go? It's a thinker. :P

Arteta shouldn't be starting IMO.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Ox will be used as a squad player to rotate and fill in on the wings and in midfield. I think he's a brilliant player, no need to rush him into playing loads of games yet though.

In terms of recovery it's fine to give him time. In terms of age and protection due to that he needs to step up this season. He'll be 21 and let's not forgot he cost £12 million.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Deleted User wrote: »

In terms of recovery it's fine to give him time. In terms of age and protection due to that he needs to step up this season. He'll be 21 and let's not forgot he cost £12 million.

I'm not questioning his ability at all. He's already well worth the 12m. Just don't see the point in overplaying him at his age and after a serious injury.