Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

.jacksparrow.

Plus he isn't getting the best out of the players.

Been a regular occurrence for years now.

emergingstar

If we do what we done tonight on saturday

Villa will tear us a new one on the break

Alfred Borden

To be honest i thought the confidence in here pre match was over the top. The dismissal of Dortmund of not being good as they used to be was farcical. With Klopp as their manager, they were always gonna put it to us. Terrible performance from management and playing personnel. No change from last year. Wenger lost me this summer after the transfer market and has done nothing to change my opinion. Stubborn dated "tactics". Ozil out the wing, this new 4-1-4-1 to hide the fact he didnt sign a DM, the terrible cover at the back. We will comes second in the group, get knocked out in the round of 16 and make a late push for fourth and get it. Same story, different season. Could fast forward it now. Arteta and Mert will look good at the weekend and people will be in here praising them again but thats their level. You wont win big titles with them in the team.

greendom

That performance was as abject as those at Stamford Bridge, Goodison and Anfield last season.

The players didn't seem to know each other or what they were trying to do.

Very very worrying.

tayto lover

emergingstar wrote: »

If we do what we done tonight on saturday

Villa will tear us a new one on the break

Playing the high line against teams with speed is stupid. Especially away. Look at the second goal tonight.
When we played with an arc around the 18 yard box we had more success They couldn't play through us and we blocked many shots. When we moved upfield we were wide open.

Soups123

tayto lover wrote: »

Playing the high line against teams with speed is stupid. Especially away. Look at the second goal tonight.
When we played with an arc around the 18 yard box we had more success They couldn't play through us and we blocked many shots. When we moved upfield we were wide open.

You just can't play a highline with Mert and Arteta in the team they are completely placeless, they are the biggest reason we get anialated against good teams.

emergingstar

tayto lover wrote: »

Playing the high line against teams with speed is stupid. Especially away. Look at the second goal tonight.
When we played with an arc around the 18 yard box we had more success They couldn't play through us and we blocked many shots. When we moved upfield we were wide open.

A throw in deep in there Half

A long clearance up field

And there 1 on 1 with our CB

Crazy

Looper007

Raf32 wrote: »

Arteta and Mert will look good at the weekend and people will be in here praising them again but thats their level. You wont win big titles with them in the team.

I always said Mert in the big games shouldn't play, he has no pace. He's a good solid professional but he has become a weakness. I go for Chambers, as he has pace.

Looper007

emergingstar wrote: »

A throw in deep in there Half

A long clearance up field

And there 1 on 1 with our CB

Crazy

No defensive midfielder that's the problem.

tayto lover

emergingstar wrote: »

A throw in deep in there Half

A long clearance up field

And there 1 on 1 with our CB

Crazy

We saw that last season too and i remarked on it.
The opposition are more likely to score from one of our corners than we are.

Alfred Borden

Looper007 wrote: »

I always said Mert in the big games shouldn't play, he has no pace. He's a good solid professional but he has become a weakness. I go for Chambers, as he has pace.

Been saying that for at least a year. Mert is good against the lower clubs, not of high enough standard against the big ones. They all pick on him and Arteta.

tayto lover

Looper007 wrote: »

I always said Mert in the big games shouldn't play, he has no pace. He's a good solid professional but he has become a weakness. I go for Chambers, as he has pace.

I knew Mert was slow but jaysus he just got a lot slower.

emergingstar

Ramsey, ozil and arteta should be dropped for Saturday

Team I would play

Scez
Bellerin. Mert. Kos. Gibbs

Sanchez.chambers . Wilshere cazorla. Ox

Wellbeck

Looper007

Wenger is at fault, he knew he had problems in those positions. But once again his stubbornness on been told what to do is his biggest weakness. He doesn't want to be proved wrong.

Looper007

Raf32 wrote: »

Been saying that for at least a year. Mert is good against the lower clubs, not of high enough standard against the big ones. They all pick on him and Arteta.

I think Mert should only be used when we play agaisn't teams that don't have world class strikers or pacy attacks. I feel for Arteta and Mert, good guys who simply are playing well above their level. They be playing on Saturday though.

tayto lover

Off to bed lads, early start.
In a few weeks we'll be singing their praises when we're top of the league :rolleyes::D

greendom

Arteta was poor tonight, but it was his first game back from injury and could have done with more support from his fellow midfielders

batistuta9

gebbel wrote: »

Don't make rash judgments after a beating by Dortmund in their own back yard.

greendom wrote: »

That performance was as abject as those at Stamford Bridge, Goodison and Anfield last season.

The players didn't seem to know each other or what they were trying to do.

Very very worrying.

that's the thing, i don't think anyone would be píssed getting beat in dortmund, but most of the comments aren't knee jerk, even if some will view them as.

they're based on what greendom is saying, better finishing/decisions from dortmund and it could've been 5/6 easily. nothing learned at all it appears.

as for the blaming individuals, it's probably the only time you can do it without getting called a moaner or 'i don't think you're an arsenal supporter at all' type replies.
even thought no one player in particular deserves to be singled out tonight, but is it easier to scapegoat the player(s) than look at wenger? i think it is for some people.
someone said recently arsenal can't win the league, etc. because of the spend of others, well whats the point then, how much longer is a par deemed good enough

Alfred Borden

tayto lover wrote: »

Off to bed lads, early start.
In a few weeks we'll be singing their praises when we're top of the league :rolleyes::D

Wait until we beat Burnley, QPR and West Brom on the trot and this place will be telling us how good Mert and Arteta are :pac:

DenMan

Arsene Wenger is turning into Rip Van Winkle more every day! Getting out thought tactically by younger managers! Klopp, Martinez, Rodgers and Mourinho to name a few! A modern stadium but as a club we're still living in the 90's!

AdamD

Ozil hardly lit the world alight playing in his preferred position last season.

Alfred Borden

If Wenger wasnt able to build a competitive team this year and push on, he should have left on his high last year. Might not get a better opportunity. League could have been ours last year if he replaced Walcott or just added to Giroud but he didnt show the hunger he once had.

gosplan

Yeah, you can debate back and forth about tactics, players and so on and so forth but it doesn't matter who we play or in what position as long as we keep bottling these big away games.

It's all mental. Players just freeze.

Mickeroo

Pretty baffled by the knee jerk reactions about mert. Majority of posters wanted him to be named captain not long ago and only wanted a back up defender signed. Now folks are pretending they've always said he's not good enough and wanted him replaces all summer and ignore the fact he's been half of one of the best defences In the league two years running.

The entire team bottled it just like they did in anfield, goodison and Stamford bridge last year, nothing more nothing less.

Alfred Borden

Speaking for myself I never wanted Mert as captain and always thought and still do think he is seriously overrated by Arsenal fans. Always wanted an improvement on him but had other areas in dire need of improvement that needed addressing first.

Soups123

Mickeroo wrote: »

Pretty baffled by the knee jerk reactions about mert. Majority of posters wanted him to be named captain not long ago and only wanted a back up defender signed. Now folks are pretending they've always said he's not good enough and wanted him replaces all summer and ignore the fact he's been half of one of the best defences In the league two years running.

The entire team bottled it just like they did in anfield, goodison and Stamford bridge last year, nothing more nothing less.

I think Mert is on a bad run of form, being dropped mid World Cup wouldn't have helped.

I think the decline in Arteta is exposing him more as he is been ran at more often, Wenger also needs to look at playing a deeper line. He's great when the game is played around our box but for counter attacking teams he is struggling

Mickeroo

Soups123 wrote: »

I think Mert is on a bad run of form, being dropped mid World Cup wouldn't have helped.

I think the decline in Arteta is exposing him more as he is been ran at more often, Wenger also needs to look at playing a deeper line. He's great when the game is played around our box but for counter attacking teams he is struggling

No disagreement with that, the high line was suicidal.

Soups123

I've been one of those saying all summer a top class DM will not just fix it that team tactic and mentality has to change .

But I think I under estimated Artetas decline, his defensive game is so poor and he gives away too many fouls his must have gave away 4/5 tonight in our own half.

So disapointed this season has started and the issues everyone flagged are exactly were we are struggling

UnknownSpecies

Soups123 wrote: »

I think Mert is on a bad run of form, being dropped mid World Cup wouldn't have helped.

I think the decline in Arteta is exposing him more as he is been ran at more often, Wenger also needs to look at playing a deeper line. He's great when the game is played around our box but for counter attacking teams he is struggling

Completely agree with you there. We shouldn't be looking to play our defensive line so high against a pacy team like Dortmund. In fact, I would say pace is probably Dortmunds biggest strength, yet we still played a very high line and a slow CM in front of them. I say CM because Arteta certainly isn't a true DM.

brianregan09

Mertesacker is a great player......but we should be doing better he doesn't match up to the pairings at City, Chelsea and Liverpool less said about Uniteds the better although there shaping to improve

Arteta, Mertesacker and Giroud wouldnt get in any of there teams and thats our spine thats where the problem lies,

Soups123

dorgasm wrote: »

Completely agree with you there. We shouldn't be looking to play our defensive line so high against a pacy team like Dortmund. In fact, I would say pace is probably Dortmunds biggest strength, yet we still played a very high line and a slow CM in front of them. I say CM because Arteta certainly isn't a true DM.

It's worrying that you see that, I see it, most fans see it yet Arsene still shows no sign of tactical awareness.

What are we missing ???????

Alfred Borden

brianregan09 wrote: »

Mertesacker is a great player......but we should be doing better he doesn't match up to the pairings at City, Chelsea and Liverpool less said about Uniteds the better although there shaping to improve

Arteta, Mertesacker and Giroud wouldnt get in any of there teams and thats our spine thats where the problem lies,

The harsh true reality.

UnknownSpecies

Soups123 wrote: »

It's worrying that you see that, I see it, most fans see it yet Arsene still shows no sign of tactical awareness.

What are we missing ???????

It's incredibly worrying. Usually I'd take the sensible view, which is that surely I don't know better than one of the best managers the league has seen. But jesus christ, it's so plain to see. I wouldn't play a high line in Fifa against Dortmund, let alone in real life.

omega man

emergingstar wrote: »

Ramsey, ozil and arteta should be dropped for Saturday

Team I would play

Scez
Bellerin. Mert. Kos. Gibbs

Sanchez.chambers . Wilshere cazorla. Ox

Wellbeck

Sorry but bellerin was pants tonight. Maybe one for the future but we're in no position to start experimenting now.

I'd start flamini over Arteta as he offers some kind of defensive cover, albeit limited.

Chambers must play RB until debuchy returns. Something like this for villa?


..............Welbeck

Sanchez

................................Ox

........Jack Aaron

..........Flamini

...Gibbs Mert Kos CC

.............Schez

.jacksparrow.

Raf32 wrote: »

Speaking for myself I never wanted Mert as captain and always thought and still do think he is seriously overrated by Arsenal fans. Always wanted an improvement on him but had other areas in dire need of improvement that needed addressing first.

Yep but instead we bought ozil and Sanchez, who let's be honest we didn't really need.

Marty McFly

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah, you can debate back and forth about tactics, players and so on and so forth but it doesn't matter who we play or in what position as long as we keep bottling these big away games.

It's all mental. Players just freeze.

It is all mental but surely the manager must take the blame was this has become a persistent problem?

No point singling out any player today it was a horrible team performance.

Marty McFly

omega man wrote: »

Sorry but bellerin was pants tonight. Maybe one for the future but we're in no position to start experimenting now.

I'd start flamini over Arteta as he offers some kind of defensive cover, albeit limited.

Chambers must play RB until debuchy returns. Something like this for villa?


..............Welbeck

Sanchez

................................Ox

........Jack Aaron

..........Flamini

...Gibbs Mert Kos CC

.............Schez

Of coarse he was pants tonight the whole team was, were in no position to judge him after that game.

Your 19 making your debut and all your team mates fail to turn up on the biggest night of your career and see how well you do?

Now I'm not saying he is the answer but we sure as hell can't pass judgement on him after tonight.

omega man

Marty McFly wrote: »

Of coarse he was pants tonight the whole team was, were in no position to judge him after that game.

Your 19 making your debut and all your team mates fail to turn up on the biggest night of your career and see how well you do?

Now I'm not saying he is the answer but we sure as hell can't pass judgement on him after tonight.

I was replying to a post suggesting he starts against villa at RB with chambers in DMF. That's crazy stuff.

Looper007

Soups123 wrote: »

It's worrying that you see that, I see it, most fans see it yet Arsene still shows no sign of tactical awareness.

What are we missing ???????

We are missing a Matic/Toure type who commands the midfield. we are missing a leader which is pretty obvious. A top class striker. A coach that's not afraid to rock the boat which Wenger never really was.

gosplan

Marty McFly wrote: »

It is all mental but surely the manager must take the blame was this has become a persistent problem?

No point singling out any player today it was a horrible team performance.

Yup, completly Wenger's job.

Y2KBOS86

Mr Blobby wrote: »

He's only played like 4 games!!
I'll not even bother with the rest..

What did I say Blobby?

Can I just get a PM to let me know when I'm allowed to post?

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

Can I just get a PM to let me know when I'm allowed to post?

Do it now, we're all venting tonight :P

omega man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can I just get a PM to let me know when I'm allowed to post?

Please don't. You'll ruin the air of despondency around here with more of your pro wenger tripe ;-)

Y2KBOS86

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

What are we going to do about ozil?

Its turning into one of the worst transfers in recent years.

Ozil to Bayern might be on at this point.

Wenger is an annoyingly stubborn man as well.

He's basically accommodating and making a new formation for Jack Wilshere.

To prove a point it seems, it's crazy.

Ozil out of position, Ramsey out of position to accomadate Jack.

We played good stuff last year with Jack out wide, now Wenger makes him the main man in midfield.

If I was Ozil I would be telling Wenger to play me in the middle or I am gone, must piss Ozil having an inferior player in his position because a manager wants the world to say he's a genius when he saves Jack's career from the brink.

Missed the first 35ish minutes. From the commentary we weren't good up til then.
Stats may say otherwise but Bellerin was lost out there. Not blaming him, he isn't ready by a long shot.
Midfield was incredibly porous. How can we never defend a counter-attack unless Koscielny put in a last-ditch tackle. Or worse, Chamberlain having to do it.
Welbeck. Well, watch the match.

Depressing stuff altogether. And if yous think I'm "not a fan" I sat on my own upstairs in a pub 55 miles from home to watch the match til the end. So yous can **** off. They might not have even known I was there because I only made noise once and by the time they started listening my head was in my hands.

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

Missed the first 35ish minutes. From the commentary we weren't good up til then.
Stats may say otherwise but Bellerin was lost out there. Not blaming him, he isn't ready by a long shot.
Midfield was incredibly porous. How can we never defend a counter-attack unless Koscielny put in a last-ditch tackle. Or worse, Chamberlain having to do it.
Welbeck. Well, watch the match.

Depressing stuff altogether. And if yous think I'm "not a fan" I sat on my own upstairs in a pub 55 miles from home to watch the match til the end. So yous can **** off. They might not have even known I was there because I only made noise once and by the time they started listening my head was in my hands.

It was dismal, we're all in agreement there. I will say though, that Debuchy or Chambers wouldn't have made a difference over Bellerin. I've already mentioned how the entire defense were too high up and constantly spread out and out of position, especially just after we lost the ball and Dortmund countered. I think it's good that he's gotten a big game like this under his belt though. May not do wonders for his confidence, but given how injury prone we are, we need the lad to get as much experience as possible.

Mr Blobby

Deleted User wrote: »

Missed the first 35ish minutes. From the commentary we weren't good up til then.
Stats may say otherwise but Bellerin was lost out there. Not blaming him, he isn't ready by a long shot.
Midfield was incredibly porous. How can we never defend a counter-attack unless Koscielny put in a last-ditch tackle. Or worse, Chamberlain having to do it.
Welbeck. Well, watch the match.

Depressing stuff altogether. And if yous think I'm "not a fan" I sat on my own upstairs in a pub 55 miles from home to watch the match til the end. So yous can **** off. They might not have even known I was there because I only made noise once and by the time they started listening my head was in my hands.

Again you just prove that you know nothing!! Like are you really a fan?















:pac:
Na just messing.. I actually agree with most of it :pac:

farna_boy

Missed most of the first half but saw the last 10 minutes of that and most of the second half. One of the biggest problems tonight was a few players didn't turn up. It has happened a few times at this stage and to some players more than others. We get away with it sometimes if only one goes missing but when we are playing the likes of Dortmund it is never going to go well.

I said it earlier in the season and I still thnik it's true. I don't think the team will gel for a while. When Giroud was there there was some chance that Alexis could get used to the team more easily, not because of Giroud per se, but because he had 10 players around him that are used to playing together. Now that we are forced to play Welbeck, we essentially have an entirely new strike force that aren't used to playing with each other or the rest of the team. Hopefully that will change when Walcott gets back but until then I won't be too hopeful of any fantastic results.

Dapics

I'm willing to give Welbeck two or three more games to prove himself, but he really should have put away one of those chances.

Arteta was acting the bollix, he gave away the ball three times in his own half directly to a dortmund player with careless passes.

Jacky tried and failed. Ozil did nothing, literally nothing. Ramsey had a terrible 60 minutes and left our defense exposed too many times as he was usually lurking too far up the pitch and not getting back.

Scz didn't necessarily have a bad game, apart from the one bit of bollixry, he did ok.

Respect to Sanchez who looked like the only one, apart from Jack and the Ox, with a bit of fight in him.

There can only be two reasons for these kinds of performances away: either its in the head or Wenger is not capable of competing with the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Rodgers and Martinez in terms of tactics.

We have seen too many performances of this kind. Wenger needs to lay into the lads and tell them to cop the feck on, per and arteta's presence as captain and vice-captain has had feck all impact based on this performance.

We need a Keane or a Viera/Adams. Simple as that.