Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Skylinehead

brianregan09 wrote: »

Mertesacker is a great player......but we should be doing better he doesn't match up to the pairings at City, Chelsea and Liverpool less said about Uniteds the better although there shaping to improve

Arteta, Mertesacker and Giroud wouldnt get in any of there teams and thats our spine thats where the problem lies,

Liverpool? They somehow manage to have an even worse defence than us.

dorgasm

dorgasm wrote: »

It was dismal, we're all in agreement there. I will say though, that Debuchy or Chambers wouldn't have made a difference over Bellerin. I've already mentioned how the entire defense were too high up and constantly spread out and out of position, especially just after we lost the ball and Dortmund countered. I think it's good that he's gotten a big game like this under his belt though. May not do wonders for his confidence, but given how injury prone we are, we need the lad to get as much experience as possible.

I don't think tonight was the time to be giving someone experience. I liked how he gave things a go when no-one else was for ages. But there were too many times he was given the run-around and was shown for what he is.

Ugh, such a **** way to remember an evening I spent with a pretty girl. :pac:

Mr.Micro

I only saw the highlights on that awful tv3, but we were undone so often, even in the highlights. Welbeck missed at least three, and the way we played, we were lucky it was not more. Disappointing. That defensive midfielder that we all wanted, and need, except Wenger, was so needed tonight. Arteta not physical enough for the role.

Dapics

This isn't meant to pick you apart, you just happened to raise a few things :P

Dapics wrote: »

I'm willing to give Welbeck two or three more games to prove himself, but he really should have put away one of those chances.

Saw his missed chance in the 1st half, he needs to start kicking the ball when through instead of flicking it. Frustrating in the second half too.

Arteta was acting the bollix, he gave away the ball three times in his own half directly to a dortmund player with careless passes.

Very disappointed with him.

Jacky tried and failed. Ozil did nothing, literally nothing. Ramsey had a terrible 60 minutes and left our defense exposed too many times as he was usually lurking too far up the pitch and not getting back.

What was actually the formation like? Jack, Ramsey, Arteta, Ozil and Sanchez behind Welbeck. How is that a good idea? I hardly blame Ozil, himself and Sanchez aren't for mucking in.

Scz didn't necessarily have a bad game, apart from the one bit of bollixry, he did ok.

Couple of poor moments. Couple more than he should be having.

Respect to Sanchez who looked like the only one, apart from Jack and the Ox, with a bit of fight in him.

Right before the goal he was pissed, or acting like it, about a foul. He was walking away from the ball when the free was taken then the goal happens. When someone is doing that at 44 minutes ****ing wait. Whoever took that free, well, ugh.

There can only be two reasons for these kinds of performances away: either its in the head or Wenger is not capable of competing with the likes of Klopp, Mourinho, Rodgers and Martinez in terms of tactics.

Not gonna get Martinez in there just yet. :P And Rodgers has massive blindspots but at least he still will mix things up. Wenger seems out of ideas. Yes I just said that :P

We have seen too many performances of this kind. Wenger needs to lay into the lads and tell them to cop the feck on, per and arteta's presence as captain and vice-captain has had feck all impact based on this performance.

We need a Keane or a Viera/Adams. Simple as that.

A DM would be fine with me :P

Also this :P

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Arteta does get shown up against the better teams but to think it's his fault doesn't stack up.

Last year away to Liverpool, City, Chelsea we lost by aggregate 20356 goals.

At home we were unbeaten.

Arteta's a scapegoat. Yes we could be better there but we suck beyond belief in the big away games.

I'm not going to scapegoat Arteta, but he shouldn't be playing in games like that. Same as Bellerin. Say what you like about injuries, I can't be accused of knee-jerking, I mentioned a similar situation before the transfer window closed and here we are.
We were unbeaten at home because most teams play differently depending on if they're at home or away. I don't see the sense in that but if the other team do it then it would be sensible to play with that in mind. The 4-1-4-1 somehow seems even more static and able to cover less ground than last season.

tayto lover wrote: »

Off to bed lads, early start.
In a few weeks we'll be singing their praises when we're top of the league :rolleyes::D

Have you something planned at Stamford Bridge? :pac:

enfant terrible

No tactical plan again in a big away game from Wenger.

Anyone know what the plan was?

Wilshere and Ramsey no positional discipline, both bombard forward at the same time leaving Arteta exposed and the back four scrambling.

Full backs jogging back after losing possession.

Why not set-up against one of the best teams in Europe with a bank of four and a bank of five and hit them on the break with our pacey players.

Sanchez, Wellback, Ox with Ozil and Wilshere and playing through balls.

Ozil is a player that will thrive with space to attack, picking out runners, not playing tiki-taka around the edge of the box.

Make it difficult for Dortmund.

Will it be the same story against Chelsea in a couple of weeks? just play our normal game, bombard forward with no respect to our opponent and hope for the best.

I guess it would go against Wenger's philosophy of football to play counter attacking football even away from home, which is a pity because we have the perfect players to do it.

Again I missed most of the first half so some of this can be taken with a pinch of salt.

Playing against a high-pressing team necessitates tactics and players to fit it. A slow CB like Mertesacker with a slow holding midfielder ahead like Arteta is a bad start.

Ahead of that there's 5 players. We can call them a 2-3 or a 4-1. Either way we had 2 CMs who are do-it-all types. The gap between them and Arteta falling back was too big while they had to look for space. Meanwhile if the 2 wide players come back there's no-one up front. If they go forward then half the pitch is exposed when the ball is lost.
We were behind for just about all of that so how much it applied beforehand I don't know. It's incredible to see such an expensive company make such obvious errors in front of everyone's eyes though.

Anyway, look for scapegoating if yous like :P

Chesney - Meh. Showed himself up a couple of times.
Gibbs - Tough gig for him. Monreal would've been no worse.
Koscielny - What more could he do?
Mertesacker - Poor match. Tactics did him no favours.
Bellerin - Not ready.
Arteta - No point playing him in a match like tonight.
Ozil - Tactics again not in favour. Could've done more.
Wilshere - Tried but too much to do.
Ramsey - Very disappointing.
Sanchez - Tried. Faded a lot.
Welbeck - Not good enough. Tactics showed it up even more.

Awesomeness

Ramsey has been poor. Maybe him and Jack cant play together.

Maybe we will play a stormer at the weekend with Jack out and Ozil in the middle. If so gonna have some decisions to make.

I did think the 5 mins Ozil spent in the middle before going off he looked a bit better

kronsington

So where do we go from here lads? I've read through all the comments from the game and most of us are in agreement, it was a woeful performance. Not many positives to take. Have we really progressed? Listening to john hartson lay into the team here on BBC, basically repeating a lot Of what we said here. Made an interesting point about Bould, what's he doing? Has he added much tonorrow defence? Does he talk with Wenger? We're repeating ourselves so much and it's so frustrating: players being played out of position, injuries, lack of defensive. All the areas we droned on about all summer were Painfully exposed today. Love Wenger but some of his decisions are baffling and his stubbornness and myopia is infuriating. Those writing off Welbeck already I think are being incredibly harsh. As for Ozil, what can you say? We all want him to do well but it just isn't happening for him right now. Yes, we do love a moan now and again and are probably hyperbolic at times, but last nights performance was very disappointing and deserves criticism. We haven't played well at all this season ( in my opinion) bar the City game and the Villa game at the weekend is pretty huge now. Really hope the team pull it together and Wenger changes things around now

HazDanz

Button what happened with this girl? - you are not doing a hatchet job with your analysis, you are in a good mood :P

HazDanz

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway, look for scapegoating if yous like :P

Chesney - Meh. Showed himself up a couple of times.
Gibbs - Tough gig for him. Monreal would've been no worse.
Koscielny - What more could he do?
Mertesacker - Poor match. Tactics did him no favours.
Bellerin - Not ready.
Arteta - No point playing him in a match like tonight.
Ozil - Tactics again not in favour. Could've done more.
Wilshere - Tried but too much to do.
Ramsey - Very disappointing.
Sanchez - Tried. Faded a lot.
Welbeck - Not good enough. Tactics showed it up even more.

Agree with everything except for this. He needs sometime to settle. First two games have been against great teams. Needs one or two goals against an easier team to get his confidence going and becoming more clinical.

Having said that he should have put the first half chance away. Those positions are going to be his bread and butter in this team so he needs to get used to slotting in that position.

Soups123

HazDanz wrote: »

Button what happened with this girl? - you are not doing a hatchet job with your analysis, you are in a good mood :P

I was thinking the exact same thing!

.jacksparrow.

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Ozil to Bayern might be on at this point.

Wenger is an annoyingly stubborn man as well.

He's basically accommodating and making a new formation for Jack Wilshere.

To prove a point it seems, it's crazy.

Ozil out of position, Ramsey out of position to accomadate Jack.

We played good stuff last year with Jack out wide, now Wenger makes him the main man in midfield.

If I was Ozil I would be telling Wenger to play me in the middle or I am gone, must piss Ozil having an inferior player in his position because a manager wants the world to say he's a genius when he saves Jack's career from the brink.

It's not as if ozil can't drift into the middle and try something different. He needs to take the initiative himself. If it ain't working, make it work.

Not good enough, he seems happy to hideaway on the wing.

bad2dabone

Sure they had 23 shots and we only had 3, And yeah we didn't complete a single tackle in dortmunds half, and OK, most of our players were completely absent, and I'll agree that I haven't seen arsenal dominated like that in a few months, and yeah it was another example of absolute tactical naivety from the manager, but apart from all those things we were very bad .

Noo

Awesomeness wrote: »

Ramsey has been poor. Maybe him and Jack cant play together.

They cant. Its always been that way. One would shine while the other was out injured, that one would come back and be crap, good guy gets injured and crap guy shines...vicious cycle between them.

.jacksparrow.

Side note I would love klopp here, such an exciting style and really gets the best out of the players he has.

Hate to say it but to me Wenger is nearly done, the club needs a freshen up big time, it's been the same for years, too many chances and too many excuses.

Marty McFly

Last night's performance was atrocious it wasn't the defeat it was the manner of the defeat once again.

Nothing to do with players for me but how the management sent that team out onto the pitch either his tactics are useless in these games or Wenger is failing to instill confidence and self belief in his teams before big games. Either way it's happened far to often these days and if Wenger can't find the fix or see the problem then big questions need to be asked about his position at the club.

emergingstar

Some good valid points made on here since the game

Was expecting the usual bile after a defeat, was refreshing to read

gandalf

The supporter in me is hoping last night was just a blip and we will get a good result at the Weekend against Villa.

The realist in me knows that performances like this are happening far too often now in the big games to be ignored. I don't believe it's the players or maybe I mean I don't believe it is just the players. The whole strategy of how the team plays needs to be looked at and unfortunately that stops right at the managers door.

I now see this season being a struggle to maintain fourth. I believe Wenger probably needs to leave at the end of this season and I like others would love to see Klopp take his place.

2ndcoming

I wouldn't even be that worried about the shots stat. I imagine it would have been similar last year. Last year was an out and out smash and grab but the key difference for me is this year we are nowhere near solid enough to keep a clean sheet. This 4-1-4-1 is a ludicrous formation without a truly outstanding holding midfielder as the first "1" and even on Arteta's best day he just isn't that player. Look at where Immobile picks the ball up for their first one. Who should be in that position right there? Arteta.

Going forward it leads to a too many cooks scenario and we constantly see play breaking down in the final 3rd because of it, then defensively we're scuppered because any team that can counter to any sort of reasonable level can saunter in on goal.

In the absence of the type of mid we were crying out for all summer actually being bought Flamini and Arteta or if he's ever fit Diaby need to play as defensive minded midfielders to accomodate three attacking mids behind a striker, it's as simple as that.

greendom

2ndcoming wrote: »

I wouldn't even be that worried about the shots stat. I imagine it would have been similar last year. Last year was an out and out smash and grab but the key difference for me is this year we are nowhere near solid enough to keep a clean sheet. This 4-1-4-1 is a ludicrous formation without a truly outstanding holding midfielder as the first "1" and even on Arteta's best day he just isn't that player. Look at where Immobile picks the ball up for their first one. Who should be in that position right there? Arteta.

Going forward it leads to a too many cooks scenario and we constantly see play breaking down in the final 3rd because of it, then defensively we're scuppered because any team that can counter to any sort of reasonable level can saunter in on goal.

In the absence of the type of mid we were crying out for all summer actually being bought Flamini and Arteta or if he's ever fit Diaby need to play as defensive minded midfielders to accomodate three attacking mids behind a striker, it's as simple as that.

If Ramsey and or Wilshere would just drop back and give support to Arteta, it would have closed down some of those wide open spaces that Dortmund found so much of last night.

Bellerin seemed to have no defensive responsibility, he was more often in the opposition half than his home and that must have been the instruction as I doubt a 19 year old full back would do that unless told to.

Colonialboy

Wilshere is too slow to spot the pass from his teammate.
Wilshere is good at delivering a pass, but he spends too much time being static and watching on as his teamate gets boxed in and eventually he makes a move but by then its too late. He needs to be on the move faster when one of his teamates has the ball.

And his control has always been poor, his touch is too heavy thats why he gets injured cos the ball is always getting away from him and he is over stretched.

Bellerin was poor last night, gave the ball away alot, ran into trouble and his passes are wayward or not enough pace.

Felt the team were let down by the manager. They looked out of shape and confused as to how to play.
He should have known how Dortmund would play and setup to counteract that.

Welbeck must be a delight to mark, he seems to spend alot of time standing next to the central defender, rather than making runs to his teammate.

We need some physicality, small team in stature, and we were pushed off the ball too easy.

Sanchez was let down alot by his teamates, numerous times he got surrounded by 3 Dortmund players with no sign of an Arsenal team mate coming over to help him out. Or maybe they were all under Wengers orders to stay put and not move.

I was dissapointed with team spirit, the ref was poor and we never put any pressure on him. Wilshere got a kicking and no teamate seemed to be putting pressure on the ref. When youve been kicked to the ground and picking yourself off the ground , its nice to see a teamate asking the ref to give some protection.

Typical Wenger performance in a big match .

Colonialboy

enfant terrible wrote: »

Why not set-up against one of the best teams in Europe with a bank of four and a bank of five and hit them on the break with our pacey players.

+1 , especially when you have some injuries , and giving debuts.

Hyzepher

Look, at this stage opposition teams only need about 30mins to work out how to play against us. We are that predictable that any of us could create an effective plan if we were managing an opposing team.

AW philosophy is commendable but he needs to realise that either the formation isn't working or the players he has aren't good enough to fulfil this philosophy of his.

In all the games that we performed badly over the past year, the opposition has pressed us and reduced the amount of space we have to pass the ball around etc. The most obvious solution to this is to a) pass quicker, making the opposition run more b) use our pace to push them back. Neither of these have we done with any expertise in a long, long while.

You also need to counteract the counter-attack by a) keeping the ball, b)holding up the other team when they have the ball by something called tackling, c) defending in numbers

What we seem to be good at is passing slowly, sideways. Doing fancy flicks and complex passes in the final third and best of all trying to score without shooting. All of which are great against crap teams but suicide against the best

Nemeses2050

Colonialboy wrote: »

Wilshere is too slow to spot the pass from his teammate.
Wilshere is good at delivering a pass, but he spends too much time being static and watching on as his teamate gets boxed in and eventually he makes a move but by then its too late. He needs to be on the move faster when one of his teamates has the ball.

And his control has always been poor, his touch is too heavy thats why he gets injured cos the ball is always getting away from him and he is over stretched.


Sanchez was let down alot by his teamates, numerous times he got surrounded by 3 Dortmund players with no sign of an Arsenal team mate coming over to help him out. Or maybe they were all under Wengers orders to stay put and not move.

I was dissapointed with team spirit, the ref was poor and we never put any pressure on him. Wilshere got a kicking and no teamate seemed to be putting pressure on the ref. When youve been kicked to the ground and picking yourself off the ground , its nice to see a teamate asking the ref to give some protection.

Typical Wenger performance in a big match .

For me Wilshere keeps the ball too long and tries to beat the whole opposition instead of keeping it simple and keeping the ball moving, that's why he is caught so many times and feckin gets injured.

definitely agree on the point, some of the players stand static instead of going n helping the team mate, i've seen that happening numerous times.

We've so many internationals, but it seems nobody talks on the pitch...nobody wants to take the leadership...

we're piss poor and I think this gonna be norm of the season in the big games...unless Wenger cops on and set's up a balanced team.

bad2dabone

In defence of arteta, he's not a dm, never was and wasn't bought as one either. It's credit to him that he's tried to adapt to such a demanding position late in his career, and his numbers in the PL are decent. But in the champions league he's shown up. Vs the top pl opposition he's shown up. Again it's penny pinching by the club, shoehorning a small slow ageing attacking mid into a defensive role instead of buying a proper player in the position. He was atrocious last night, misplaced eleven passes, was left on his arse three times and caught out of position I dunno how many times. And he's unable to physically chase back against pace. Combined with slow out of form mert and watch the confidence leak out of the team. They know that we're going to get roasted with that setup.
Again it's penny pinching leaving the squad short, and tactically naive which are the causes of last night's debacle.
If we keep this up we're in for a torrid time vs Chelsea and I daresay United and pool.

Please wenger learn from this defeat.

ugsparky

As bad a performance as I've ever seen - gutless and without any spirit. Only Jack, Alexis and Ox emerged with any shred of dignity in their performance.

We were all optomistic during the summer when that spiv Gazidas announced we would be busy in the transfer window with a lot more business to do. The world and his dog knew we needed a defensive midfielder and if Vermaelen left a replacement centre back ... but deep down I think we all feared what the eventual scenario would be at the end of the transfer window - and here we are.

I genuinely fear that we will see similar repeats of last years performances against the bigger teams - and I fear that we'll now be looking over our shoulders or even upwards at Spurs, Everton and Utd. The simple fact is we are not a top 8 team in Europe and we are not a top 4 team in the Premier league - we are on a par with the likes of Olympiakos, Valencia, Ajax etc. - also rans just making up the numbers. Not a chance of winning the Champions Lge/Premiership - maybe the cup again depending on the draw.

It pains me to say that but it's true. We had an oppertunity to make a clear statement and buy a World class defensive midfielder and a solid centre back to challenge Mertesacker and Kos - kit deals, tv rights, champions lge revenue - not spent. Fans once again let down by the management. Players let down by the management. The most expensive team to watch in the Premier Lge. And it's been like this for a while now.

Reluctantly I have to say that I now believe Arsene Wenger can no longer inspire the team or the supporters. The vision just isn't there. Analize all the games where we have had performances like last night and it points to the same deficiencies - no hard man defensive midfielder like Vieira/Keane to put the foot in and break up play and lead players. A slow centre half being exposed by a defense splitting ball. Even looking at Dortmund, as soon as Arsenal looked to get into a rythm their midfielders fouled or broke up the play - we looked naive and foolish.

I can't see it changing because Arsene won't/can't change - my big fear is if we slip back like Utd we won't recover or spend to rectify the short commings.

I cannot see us beating Chelsea, City, Utd or Dortmund at home - we won't buy the players we need in January. What would we like against Real, Barca or Munich ?

It's going to be a long tiring season - I think deep down a lot of people on here know it too.

Nemeses2050

Hyzepher wrote: »

Look, at this stage opposition teams only need about 30mins to work out how to play against us. We are that predictable that any of us could create an effective plan if we were managing an opposing team.

AW philosophy is commendable but he needs to realise that either the formation isn't working or the players he has aren't good enough to fulfil this philosophy of his.

In all the games that we performed badly over the past year, the opposition has pressed us and reduced the amount of space we have to pass the ball around etc. The most obvious solution to this is to a) pass quicker, making the opposition run more b) use our pace to push them back. Neither of these have we done with any expertise in a long, long while.

You also need to counteract the counter-attack by a) keeping the ball, b)holding up the other team when they have the ball by something called tackling, c) defending in numbers

What we seem to be good at is passing slowly, sideways. Doing fancy flicks and complex passes in the final third and best of all trying to score without shooting. All of which are great against crap teams but suicide against the best

+1

We used to kill teams with breadth taking pace...but now we're feckin slower than a snail even when we're 3v2 4v3, we've no confidence to take them on....we allow opposition all the time in the world to recover..

Look how that c mourinho sets up his team to defend with 2or3 pacey players...as ex-players have mentioned wenger doesn't have tactics....

enuff rants for today...

gosplan

There was a good point on the arsecast the other day about Ozil.

So like maybe he's being played out of position but regardless when he finds himself with the ball in space anywhere, left, right, middle, he's not doing anything with it.

We'll bounce back from all this tbh. It's just the latest in a long line of pathetic away performances. It'll be fine again till we go to Chelsea.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Last night was very depressing. Looks like we've even gone backwards from last year with our performances so far. Maybe it's just poor form but Ramsey and Ozil don't seem to be playing well at all in this new formation, and Arteta isn't getting any younger so it's ridiculous to be relying on him to play DM on his own.

I'm sure we'll get playing well at some point soon but we haven't played to the required level in any of the games this year. We're far less solid then we were for the most part last year and seem to have regressed back to constantly looking like we're going to concede goals on the break and at set pieces. The manager has to turn things around soon and get the players playing to the level they are capable of.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

There was a good point on the arsecast the other day about Ozil.

So like maybe he's being played out of position but regardless when he finds himself with the ball in space anywhere, left, right, middle, he's not doing anything with it.

We'll bounce back from all this tbh. It's just the latest in a long line of pathetic away performances. It'll be fine again till we go to Chelsea.

Yup we will get out of the group in second and get 4th in the league. The sooner people lower the expectations of winning the league, the easier it will be to accept.

emergingstar

I don't buy this we haven't played well all season lets not forget we played excellent against city for long periods

And as an aside Sanchez wasn't good at all last night and hangs onto the ball longer than wilshere

Fuzzy_Dunlop

emergingstar wrote: »

I don't buy this we haven't played well all season lets not forget we played excellent against for long periods

And as an aside Sanchez wasn't good at all last night and hangs onto the ball longer than wilshere

Against who?! Don't leave us hanging like that! :pac: I assume you mean City, which we did for fair portions of the game but we still went full kamikaze at the end and could have lost where we should have won.

Agreed that Sanchez was poor last night, the whole team was

byrneg28

emergingstar wrote: »

I don't buy this we haven't played well all season lets not forget we played excellent against for long periods

And as an aside Sanchez wasn't good at all last night and hangs onto the ball longer than wilshere

+1.. there have been times when where we've looked far better than last season in our build up play notably against Manchester City.. last night was a blip and I think I like most other fans are more frustrated at the manner of the defeat..

I would have gladly lost 5-0 last night if we had have had a bit more heart or a different approach, but players didn't care, disinterested, average, lazy.. Arteta playing flicks and dummying to Mertesacker in the 80th minute and putting Mkhytarian, Immobile and Aubemayang through again.. it's just bizzare...

I think Wenger needs to do a bit of rotation with the squad anyway, if it means brining Ozil central, changing formation or simply dropping Ozil and Ramsey to give another lad a chance who'll go out and grab it.

I still don't think the above will work.. I just think there's something not right.. something not clicking YET, but we will see. Let's put this game into perspective and put it behind us.. if it was the last game in the group after 5 wins.. we'd have a different reaction. I also thought a lot of people completely underestimated Dortmund last night and that's what added to the discomfort of the defeat people saying things pre-match like ' oh they've 5 key players injured.. easy match..'

I think that could have been what the players thought as well.. I'm not going to make any judgements yet because that match against City both in the league and community shield showed me that this team offers a little more than it's been showing... I'll make a judgement after the Chelsea game..

It's still September and we're calling for Wenger's head.. lets just calm down here a little

emergingstar

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Against who?! Don't leave us hanging like that! :pac: I assume you mean City, which we did for fair portions of the game but we still went full kamikaze at the end and could have lost where we should have won.

Agreed that Sanchez was poor last night, the whole team was

Ya ****er ya got there before the edit

Jaysus I no about the last ten min meltdown and it's a concern

Just saying we did play very good for long periods

omega man

Raf32 wrote: »

Yup we will get out of the group in second and get 4th in the league. The sooner people lower the expectations of winning the league, the easier it will be to accept.

But but the purse strings have been opened, we're ready to compete etc etc.

The problem as I see it is:

1. Tactical incompetence from wenger. It's beyond naivety now. As someone said earlier we're so damn predictable. I fear he won't recover from this, ever.

2. Squad assessment. How did wenger or the club not see we were short on defensive cover, including the DM position. We're not talking mega money to address those issues so it's baffling. Factor in our historical injury record and it all makes for a fcuk up of epic proportions.

Based on the above, specifically item 1, we will take a few hefty beatings from top opposition this season. Of that I'm certain.

Whatever about Ozil, I'm more worried with Aaron's form. What's happened to the player of last season? He made us tick last year and it's no coincidence we're playing poor with him out of form. Please come back Aaron!!

Fuzzy_Dunlop

emergingstar wrote: »

Ya ****er ya got there before the edit

Jaysus I no about the last ten min meltdown and it's a concern

Just saying we did play very good for long periods

I just want to see a consistent performance over 90 minutes, lets hope for one at weekend at Villa. They've done well so far this year.

Marty McFly

omega man wrote: »

Whatever about Ozil, I'm more worried with Aaron's form. What's happened to the player of last season? He made us tick last year and it's no coincidence we're playing poor with him out of form. Please come back Aaron!!

My main fear of Ramsey is that after one good season he may have lost the run of himself and started to believe his own hype and maybe it's just me but he seems to have turned into a lot more of a media whore, New haircuts photo shoots etc and taken his eye of the ball in terms of what he's paid to do.

Of coarse I'm hoping I'm wrong and he proves that not to be the case but it's how it's coming across imo.

Mr.Micro

gandalf wrote: »

The supporter in me is hoping last night was just a blip and we will get a good result at the Weekend against Villa.

The realist in me knows that performances like this are happening far too often now in the big games to be ignored. I don't believe it's the players or maybe I mean I don't believe it is just the players. The whole strategy of how the team plays needs to be looked at and unfortunately that stops right at the managers door.

I now see this season being a struggle to maintain fourth. I believe Wenger probably needs to leave at the end of this season and I like others would love to see Klopp take his place.

I know the season has only started, but I hope we do better. Perhaps it will be reverse of previous years,when we declined after Christmas. Not sure what is going on with the team at the moment.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I know the season has only started, but I hope we do better. Perhaps it will be reverse of previous years,when we declined after Christmas. Not sure what is going on with the team at the moment.

That's actually happened in a couple of the last few seasons where we have started **** and then gone on a great run after Christmas. Either way we end up honing in on 4th!

Soups123

byrneg28 wrote: »

+1.. there have been times when where we've looked far better than last season in our build up play notably against Manchester City.. last night was a blip and I think I like most other fans are more frustrated at the manner of the defeat..

I would have gladly lost 5-0 last night if we had have had a bit more heart or a different approach, but players didn't care, disinterested, average, lazy.. Arteta playing flicks and dummying to Mertesacker in the 80th minute and putting Mkhytarian, Immobile and Aubemayang through again.. it's just bizzare...

I think Wenger needs to do a bit of rotation with the squad anyway, if it means brining Ozil central, changing formation or simply dropping Ozil and Ramsey to give another lad a chance who'll go out and grab it.

I still don't think the above will work.. I just think there's something not right.. something not clicking YET, but we will see. Let's put this game into perspective and put it behind us.. if it was the last game in the group after 5 wins.. we'd have a different reaction. I also thought a lot of people completely underestimated Dortmund last night and that's what added to the discomfort of the defeat people saying things pre-match like ' oh they've 5 key players injured.. easy match..'

I think that could have been what the players thought as well.. I'm not going to make any judgements yet because that match against City both in the league and community shield showed me that this team offers a little more than it's been showing... I'll make a judgement after the Chelsea game..

It's still September and we're calling for Wenger's head.. lets just calm down here a little

I think a lot of us said result last night was fine, its the blindingly obvious that is annoying people;

1. Wenger does not tactically approach games at all. People just cant understand why. I would love to win/lose a game and debate the approach we took and whether is right or wrong but we cant because there isnt one, its the same approach game on game.
2. A blind man and his dog knew we needed defensive cover in August, Wenger said it himself and then did nothing, he signed not a single defender after admitting late July we were short there and needed more.
3. We all have varying opinions of Arteta some would like a better player others feel he can do a job. Nobody said he was excellent and exactly what we need. Arsene made him Captain, probably the biggest weakness in our team and he was made captain!
4. The most annoyed I have been this season was the last 10 against City, we imploded afcukingain. I mean what did they do all summer to address this, have they not worked on a 'get it to fcuking getter' plan.

The result last night is fine BD are a great team, I love watching them and they beat us at there home, thats hardily a crisis. What is a crisis is that everything that was blindingly obvious at the end of last season has been addressed in no way.

HazDanz

HazDanz wrote: »

Agree with everything except for this. He needs sometime to settle. First two games have been against great teams. Needs one or two goals against an easier team to get his confidence going and becoming more clinical.

Having said that he should have put the first half chance away. Those positions are going to be his bread and butter in this team so he needs to get used to slotting in that position.

We'll see but I'm not expecting a whole lot from him. He should do fine against bottom-10 opposition but that's as far as I expect it to go.

.jacksparrow.

emergingstar wrote: »

I don't buy this we haven't played well all season lets not forget we played excellent against city for long periods

And as an aside Sanchez wasn't good at all last night and hangs onto the ball longer than wilshere

Against a city side who stoke beat in the etihad in their previous game.

And we didn't beat them so what's the big deal about us playing well?

Nemeses2050

Under 19 are leading 2-0 away at Dortmund - 1st half....may be we should give them a chance...

DenMan

Really is a six pointer away to Villa on Saturday now! A win for them and they go to 13 points and a win for us we go to 9. Come on Arsenal! Time to get back on track!

emergingstar

Marty McFly wrote: »

My main fear of Ramsey is that after one good season he may have lost the run of himself and started to believe his own hype and maybe it's just me but he seems to have turned into a lot more of a media whore, New haircuts photo shoots etc and taken his eye of the ball in terms of what he's paid to do.

Of coarse I'm hoping I'm wrong and he proves that not to be the case but it's how it's coming across imo.

I'm commented earlier in the thread after our first or second game that he seems to be gone all Hollywood

Hope I'm wrong

greendom

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Against a city side who stoke beat in the etihad in their previous game.

And we didn't beat them so what's the big deal about us playing well?

We played well against City, don't start with the ridiculous x beat y, y beat z so x are better than z nonsense.

Just as we played badly last night. If Dortmund had fluffed their chances and we scrapped a 0 - 0 it would still have been an unbelievably poor performance.

Colonialboy

Gary Neville did a brilliant analysis on Monday night football of the Arsenal Man City game.
He talked about how Arsenal had huge defensive problems, highlighted by the fact that at 2-1 up and with 10 mins to go we could not close out the game, and close up shop.
He ran thru a few phases where we made poor defensive passes, playing ourselves into trouble and our midfield were puled out of shape, caught up front too much and leaving big gaps down the middle.
This was why he said we would stuggle against the big teams who would press and expose this.

Twas a good analysis, and considering the game last night , he was spot on.