Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

gosplan

It's worth noting though that it wasn't the DMF's lack of tackling or pace that caught us out.

It was trying a blind turn just outside his own box, like the way Ramsey was back heeling it across te front of his box to nobody.

Rediculous play.

Alfred Borden

Get Knocked out in the last round of 16 in the Champions League. Make a late push for fourth and get it. Get sold dreams about how we will improve our team and challenge next year. Get left desperately short. Rinse and repeat. Not even upset today, I have no expectation for this team, only 4th. Its embarrassing thinking we can win the league.

The defensive positions based on what we finished with last season could've done with an addition. Losing Vermaelen and Sagna and replacing them meant nothing was addressed compared to last season. Shipping Jenkinson out left us even more exposed.
All last season it was obvious we were missing a DM. If people can't see that then it says a lot about them.

gosplan

shano_88 wrote: »

Looks like no Wilshere, Ramsey or Arteta for at least this week. Were ****ed.

I'm obviously not happy about the injury but glad that Wilshre won't be playing CMF.

He's a liability

Gibbs, Debuchy, Monreal, Arteta * 2, Rambo, Wilshire, Giroud, Sanogo

Nice amount of injuries 6 games in.

emergingstar

Jaysus if we pick up any Injuries during the week only God knows who we will play against Chelsea

tayto lover

gosplan wrote: »

I'm obviously not happy about the injury but glad that Wilshre won't be playing CMF.

He's a liability

Gibbs, Debuchy, Monreal, Arteta * 2, Rambo, Wilshire, Giroud, Sanogo

Nice amount of injuries 6 games in.

I think you're being very biased and deliberately negative with that post :pac:

-5 points compared to the same stage last year, -3 on corresponding fixtures.

emergingstar

Team next week back 5

Ox. Cazorla. Flamini. Ozil. Sanchez

Welbeck

That midfield will be overpowerred very easy

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

The defensive positions based on what we finished with last season could've done with an addition. Losing Vermaelen and Sagna and replacing them meant nothing was addressed compared to last season. Shipping Jenkinson out left us even more exposed.
All last season it was obvious we were missing a DM. If people can't see that then it says a lot about them.

It's not that I can't see it but people who want to throw it in a funny tweet and beef it up by saying that DMF was #1 requirement are incorrect and deliberately disingenuous tbh.

The problem today for me was one crappy mistake and a lack of goals.

Last season we beat spurs 3 times without conceding but only scored 4.

I get the DMF thing, I do. But you just can't expect to win all the games 1-0.

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

Looks like no Wilshere, Ramsey or Arteta for at least this week. Were ****ed.

Link? Or just surmising on Wilshere?

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

It's not that I can't see it but people who want to throw it in a funny tweet and beef it up by saying that DMF was #1 requirement are incorrect and deliberately disingenuous tbh.

The problem today for me was one crappy mistake and a lack of goals.

Last season we beat spurs 3 times without conceding but only scored 4.

I get the DMF thing, I do. But you just can't expect to win all the games 1-0.

Yet people have been banging on about it for literally years at this stage. If you "got it" you'd know it's the number 1 issue.

Also I think I pretty much picked apart what you said about the 4 defensive positions. Sagna was replaced with Debuchy, Jenkinson and Vermaelen replaced by Chambers. So even if those positions were the most important I don't see how anyone can claim that it was addressed.

shano_88

Who is going to play in the middle?

Flamini--Ox

It might be ok against Galatasaray but I wouldnt be happy with that against Chelsea. Ox is too attacking and would get out positionally against a great side like Chelsea.

Flamini---Diaby

Looks better to me. I think it would work better for the Chelsea game. Obviously your running the risk that Diaby will get injured but needs must imo and I think a Flamini, Diaby axis would compete better in a midfield especially in a battle with Chelsea.

emergingstar

Look start diaby next week and if he breaks he breaks

DenMan

Disappointed with the result in the end but we drew 1-1 and looked defensively good when under pressure! Am optimistic about Chelsea next week...providing we change our game plan and play a more defensive game against them. Watched Sky Sports and was very impressed with Sol Campbell. He even said that he is hopeful and optimistic Arsenal can adopt a defensive structure against Chelsea and be successful with it. The look on Jamie Redknapp's face when he said it was priceless! Campbell is right, we need to change our game plan against the other big rivals. Last year we lost 6-0 to them. I have a huge feeling Wenger will park the bus next week and make it very difficult for Chelsea to break us down. Chambers is going to have to be on his game and for a young lad of 19 he's been immense for us so far!

greendom

Arteta is more than good enough for the vast majority of games we play. Flamini isn't. If we'd got that Rabiot guy to learn the ropes at Arsenal and fill in for MA when needed, I'd have been delighted. Today's game would have been a win had Arteta been playing

Ajfunky

Shame not to get the win today, a very poor spurs there for the taking and I think we'll count that as 2 very important points droped later in the season.

Encouraging enough team play from some players who were in a bit of a drift. Ramsey should a bit of pluck before the injury, Chambers I thought was great all day at the front and back of the pitch - maybe a little rash in some challenges but definitely finding his happy medium - Ox made some decent runs, Jack looked pretty good too.

Thought Ozil ran the show today and it was a shame our forwards weren't at the same level. He was getting visibly frustrated at people passing him the ball then standing around waiting for him to magic up a goal. Welbeck just wasn't making those runs today and Oxlade was sometimes slow to pick up on it too. BUt watching Ozil was an absolute delight, his footwork is just so impressive and his preciseness in most every pass is astonishing.

Gibbs was great today I thought, really probing in attack and just such pace that his post is entirely uncovered when he goes upfield. A bit more around the box training and he'll be one of the best in the premiership.

I think the main problem today was nobody taking shots. Ozil had some decent positions where just a potshot would send a bit of chaos around the box and lead to more goalscoring positions. Thought Sanchez could have tried to find some space for a goal to as opposed to passing about (working out for a goal which was handy though!)

Id love to batter Galatasary.

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

Who is going to play in the middle?

Flamini--Ox

It might be ok against Galatasaray but I wouldnt be happy with that against Chelsea. Ox is too attacking and would get out positionally against a great side like Chelsea.

Flamini---Diaby

Looks better to me. I think it would work better for the Chelsea game. Obviously your running the risk that Diaby will get injured but needs must imo and I think a Flamini, Diaby axis would compete better in a midfield especially in a battle with Chelsea.

Is Rosicky injured? Should be in CM with Flamini for one of the next 2 matches assuming the other 3 are out.

shano_88

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Rosicky injured? Should be in CM with Flamini for one of the next 2 matches assuming the other 3 are out.

I would have Rosicky no where near the team for Chelsea game anyway. He would get destroyed in CM vs them.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Arteta is more than good enough for the vast majority of games we play. Flamini isn't. If we'd got that Rabiot guy to learn the ropes at Arsenal and fill in for MA when needed, I'd have been delighted. Today's game would have been a win had Arteta been playing

What's "the vast majority" these days? 2/3 of league sides? Once you count City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Everton, Spurs that's 12/38 matches he's not good enough for. Add in a couple of form teams (Southampton for example) and you've conceded that a starting player isn't good enough for about 15 league matches a season before counting 2 CL group games and maybe another away game. Concede all that and draw a top seed in the last 16 and he's not good enough for that match either.
bit of a handicap to accept no?

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

I would have Rosicky no where near the team for Chelsea game anyway. He would get destroyed in CM vs them.

Depends who's around him.

greendom

Deleted User wrote: »

What's "the vast majority" these days? 2/3 of league sides? Once you count City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Everton, Spurs that's 12/38 matches he's not good enough for. Add in a couple of form teams (Southampton for example) and you've conceded that a starting player isn't good enough for about 15 league matches a season before counting 2 CL group games and maybe another away game. Concede all that and draw a top seed in the last 16 and he's not good enough for that match either.
bit of a handicap to accept no?

I have no issue with him at home against anyone

And apart from the way games at Chelsea, City and the odd top ranking European away match, I'd have complete faith in him

bad2dabone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dreading the Chelsea game tbh.

Bricking it.

greendom

Who have Chelsea got in Europe ?

shano_88

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends who's around him.

I dont think we have anyone who could play with him. In a 2 axis anyway.

Alfred Borden

Chance we wont beat Gala

greendom

bad2dabone wrote: »

Bricking it.

It won't be as bad as last season

greendom

greendom wrote: »

I have no issue with him at home against anyone

And apart from the way games at Chelsea, City and the odd top ranking European away match, I'd have complete faith in him

Fair enough, lot more faith than I do. Still a pity to have a first choice player ya don't think is good enough for a deep CL run.

greendom wrote: »

It won't be as bad as last season

Huh?

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

I dont think we have anyone who could play with him. In a 2 axis anyway.

Aye. Think a 4-3-3 might be necessary anyway.

jonneymendoza

play 10 men behind the balll against chelsea please

greendom

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough, lot more faith than I do. Still a pity to have a first choice player ya don't think is good enough for a deep CL run.

Huh?

The Chelsea match - keep up:D

greendom

greendom wrote: »

The Chelsea match - keep up:D

Ah, was reading the post above the one you quoted. Thought you were referring to Galatasaray which confused me :P

gosplan

I think Arteta is an easy target.

How many points did he actually cost us last year?

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

I think Arteta is an easy target.

How many points did he actually cost us last year?

It's not about obvious errors or whatever. He just hasn't got the legs for the position and his positional sense is questionable.
It's funny how a few years ago I said he wasn't good enough when it came to attacking and I was told he was. Somehow he's managed to morph into DM who's good enough for a team with CL or PL ambitions. :P

extra gravy

Arteta isn't a DM, never was and never will be. He was an average enough player shoehorned into that position by Wenger instead of us buying a proper DM. He hasn't done badly to be fair but we need better.

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not about obvious errors or whatever. He just hasn't got the legs for the position and his positional sense is questionable.
It's funny how a few years ago I said he wasn't good enough when it came to attacking and I was told he was. Somehow he's managed to morph into DM who's good enough for a team with CL or PL ambitions. :P

But I agree with you. He's not good enough to win a big trophy.

But that has nothing to do with today.

And that has nothing to do with the times we shipped 4 goals in 20 mins last season away to the big teams.

I 100% agree with you. We need a better player there long term.

But why are we talking about Arteta today?

emergingstar

I dont arteta is a major issue

Playing arteta and mert is a major issue though

Marty McFly

Poor result again today we have dropped far to many points already this season already.

These are games we should be winning. If Ramsey is fit he should be dropped he has been abysmal lately wanted to slap him for that flick.

I think Welbeck will come good from what I've seen imo.

But for whatever the reason is we just haven't clicked this season yet it looks like Wenger doesn't know what he's trying to do or what his best eleven is yet and if he doesn't know how are the players meant to know.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Who have Chelsea got in Europe ?

Away to Sporting Lisbon on the Tuesday. Hope it's a pretty physical game. Just to level things out a little

extra gravy

greendom wrote: »

Away to Sporting Lisbon on the Tuesday. Hope it's a pretty physical game. Just to level things out a little

So they've an extra day to recover as well

Soups123

gosplan wrote: »

I think Arteta is an easy target.

How many points did he actually cost us last year?

It's not only about what it's cost us, reverse the question and what are the games he done the job well and saved us?

To be fair to him he is not a DM and does what he can

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Arteta isn't a DM, never was and never will be. He was an average enough player shoehorned into that position by Wenger instead of us buying a proper DM. He hasn't done badly to be fair but we need better.

Again the thing is I don't like to come across as "attacking" the guy. He joined when he was going on 30 into a midfield that changed around plenty with Song the only near ever-present next to him. Then Song leaves and Arteta is 30 and has to completely change roles again.

gosplan wrote: »

But I agree with you. He's not good enough to win a big trophy.

But that has nothing to do with today.

And that has nothing to do with the times we shipped 4 goals in 20 mins last season away to the big teams.

I 100% agree with you. We need a better player there long term.

But why are we talking about Arteta today?

It's all part of the bigger picture IMO. The fact that one injury leaves us with Flamini starting says a lot.

Blame Greendom. :P

omega man

God that was an awful Spurs team. Tells a lot when a draw for them was a great result.

In fairness to Welbeck he's not getting the chances he should be with our array of attacking midfielders. He also tracked back a lot to get on the ball or was he instructed to do so as defensive support in midfield?

The positives were coming from behind again and not losing of course. We're still unbeaten but yet that doesn't paint a true picture. Players wise the ox, Gibbs (despite his positioning for the goal), chambers and kos all gave solid performances.

Ramsey's injury is a real concern even though his performances this season are well below what we know he can deliver. Hopefully jack is ok as he's stepped up lately. He still needs to release the ball sooner, can be infuriating!

Finally if we go to Chelsea with that high defensive line then prepare for a spanking. Surely even wenger knows that now, doesn't he??

Soups123

The only thing I will say is excluding Chelsea we are on a par if not better with all the other teams expected to be around us!

Marty McFly

Marty McFly wrote: »

I think Welbeck will come good from what I've seen imo.

I still hope to be proven wrong on him but I can still comfortably stand over what I've said before. He's not a lone striker and we're not playing to give him a chance to leave his best on the pitch.

omega man

omega man wrote: »

In fairness to Welbeck he's not getting the chances he should be with our array of attacking midfielders.

Sure he missed a chance before the goal. If he'd scored that we'd have been 2-1 up! :pac:

Marty McFly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I still hope to be proven wrong on him but I can still comfortably stand over what I've said before. He's not a lone striker and we're not playing to give him a chance to leave his best on the pitch.

I won't lie I wasn't over enthusiastic about his signing.

But for instance I'd have him over Remy probably controversial I just don't rate Remy highly nor is he going to improve, Welbeck has youth on his side.

I can't put my finger on it exactly but I like his work rate his movement is good he just needs to improve his finishing which I think hope he can.

If we can get the team and midfield behind him really ticking he may prove useful.

Right now the whole team looks disjointed bar the odd flash.

Marty McFly

Marty McFly wrote: »

I won't lie I wasn't over enthusiastic about his signing.

But for instance I'd have him over Remy probably controversial I just don't rate Remy highly nor is he going to improve, Welbeck has youth on his side.

I can't put my finger on it exactly but I like his work rate his movement is good he just needs to improve his finishing which I think hope he can.

If we can get the team and midfield behind him really ticking he may prove useful.

Right now the whole team looks disjointed bar the odd flash.

My gripe with signing him wasn't all about his ability or lack of it. He's being played up front on his own like I assumed and it's not going to work for him. Not when he's chasing back to midfield to win a ball to start an attack that he can't be on the end of it.

emergingstar

Marty McFly wrote: »

I won't lie I wasn't over enthusiastic about his signing.

But for instance I'd have him over Remy probably controversial I just don't rate Remy highly nor is he going to improve, Welbeck has youth on his side.

I can't put my finger on it exactly but I like his work rate his movement is good he just needs to improve his finishing which I think hope he can.

If we can get the team and midfield behind him really ticking he may prove useful.

Right now the whole team looks disjointed bar the odd flash.

Can wenger wave his magic and get this grouo playing as good as we think they can
Or will we stay average

Marty McFly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My gripe with signing him wasn't all about his ability or lack of it. He's being played up front on his own like I assumed and it's not going to work for him. Not when he's chasing back to midfield to win a ball to start an attack that he can't be on the end of it.

Agreed that's why I'm hoping if we get the team ticking we do play to his strengths and we get the best from him.

But you're right if we keep playing like we have Giroud up top then we'll never get the best from him.

Marty McFly

emergingstar wrote: »

Can wenger wave his magic and get this grouo playing as good as we think they can
Or will we stay average

I hope so if he doesn't he can't have any excuses.

He has spent huge money now and we have players and a team who are capable of playing much better than we are.

That alone falls on Wenger.