Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

emergingstar

Our second half performance was better, we just need to put it all together

We're still dodgy to been caught on the break every time

Looper007

emergingstar wrote: »

Our second half performance was better, we just need to put it all together

We're still dodgy to been caught on the break every time

this all the way.

We really need to put those chances away cause once we get caught on the break we're in trouble really, I though Chambers and Kos had a great game at the back. Ozil and Ox gave it a go. Wilshire got stuck in but he needs to cool it down a little sometimes. Ramsey looks well off form, a break on the sidelines will do him good. Flamini, god bless him shouldn't be playing for a top 4 club. It has backfired on Wenger again, he should have bought a top class DM or better then the two we got.

We should have beaten them really, they are an average team at best and to drop two points is really disappointing. That's why we won't be winning the title. We are still off the pace.

gosplan

Soups123 wrote: »

It's not only about what it's cost us, reverse the question and what are the games he done the job well and saved us?

To be fair to him he is not a DM and does what he can

Funnily enough I think that he brings a lot in general because we are missing the x-factor player up front.

I remember a year ago there was a huge difference between the games with and without Arteta that at the time implied e was actually the MOST important player.

It's that mix though. Arteta great when playing 15 of the premiership teams but not great against the other 4.

A purely tackling out and out DMF like Gilberto might cost us the occasional draw/loss against the weaker teams but could solidify us against the better ones. We need a combination of both to be really successful.

I do think though that without a better attack, playing a single guy to just break up play is not an option. Gilberto worked because Henry allowed us to leave him sit and defend. Hopefully Sanchez and Walcott can e decisive enough to allow us to add a pure DMF.

Looper007

Marty McFly wrote: »

I hope so if he doesn't he can't have any excuses.

He has spent huge money now and we have players and a team who are capable of playing much better than we are.

That alone falls on Wenger.

I don't want to start "get Wenger out" debate but does anyone think with another top 4 position and not winning a trophy, that Wenger will be kept on. I can't see many fans been happy with this again. We were expecting at least to be stepping it up. We haven't been beaten yet but it's still very disappointing.

Wenger hasn't given himself a easy task, he's not answered the weak spots in our team (CB, DM and World Class Striker) and we are still shown the weaknesses from the last two seasons. It's the stubbornness that will be his downfall.

Y2KBOS86

Looper007 wrote: »

I don't want to start "get Wenger out" debate but does anyone think with another top 4 position and not winning a trophy, that Wenger will be kept on. I can't see many fans been happy with this again. We were expecting at least to be stepping it up. We haven't been beaten yet but it's still very disappointing.

Wenger hasn't given himself a easy task, he's not answered the weak spots in our team (CB, DM and World Class Striker) and we are still shown the weaknesses from the last two seasons. It's the stubbornness that will be his downfall.

Wenger will never be sacked, even if we finish 5th this season ( a real possibility )

Most fans still want him here and view him as irreplaceable, even if they are frustrated with his stubbornness, Moyes being an absolute disaster has kept his job incredibly secure, board are scared ****less he will leave and cost millions to replace.

To turn this team into champions would cost over 200mill.

Wenger and the board have decided it's not worth it, they are probably right.

For our attack to be good enough to win the league and compete for the champions league, we would need a Suarez level striker and a Reus level winger, we are that far behind the likes of Chelsea, City, Bayern, Barca etc.

Then we need a top class international midfielder of Bender's level, a much better central defender than Mert ( he would get raped at the top level vs guys like Suarez, Ibra, Neymar etc ) and a much better left back than Gibbs.

We are 5 guys, 200 mill+ from competing, not gonna happen in one or 2 seasons.

I said at the start of the season Wenger would take 4th tomorrow and build again next summer and got slated, well that's the plan.

He just better hope Ozil, Sanchez, Kos etc have more patience than Henry, Rvp, Cesc etc had.

Y2KBOS86

Our average positions taken up today.

No one in midfield, 3 at the back and full backs playing as wingers.

Gibbs on his own on the left is madness, one mistake and he is ****ed.

Chelsea are going to ride us.

Wilshere thinking he's Zidane too another huge problem, himself and Ozil playing on the top of each other.

emergingstar

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Our average positions taken up today.

No one in midfield, 3 at the back and full backs playing as wingers.

Gibbs on his own on the left is madness, one mistake and he is ****ed.

Chelsea are going to ride us

We spent most of the game attacking

Where the fcuk do you expect us to be positioned while we attack

Y2KBOS86

emergingstar wrote: »

We spent most of the game attacking

Where the fcuk do you expect us to be positioned while we attack

We shouldn't be losing our heads like we did today, no shape or structure at all.

Wilshere, Ox and Danny where running around with no discipline, like headless chickens.

emergingstar

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

We shouldn't be losing our heads like we did today, no shape or structure at all.

Wilshere, Ox and Danny where running around with no discipline, like headless chickens.

Give over your talking bollox

We had 70% possession and we were attacking. Of course we're going to be pushed on

But I think my first point stands

Your talking bollox

shano_88

There is definetly a problem with Ozil and Wilshere taking each others spaces imo.

Ozil was very good today again. Such a classy footballer.

Y2KBOS86

emergingstar wrote: »

Give over your talking bollox

We had 70% possession and we were attacking. Of course we're going to be pushed on

But I think my first point stands

Your talking bollox

Why are you so aggressive towards me?

emergingstar

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Why are you so aggressive towards me?

I'm not

Quazzie

emergingstar wrote: »

I'm not

Ah ya are there now in fairness.

emergingstar

Quazzie wrote: »

Ah ya are there now in fairness.

If ya talk bollox Ya derserves to be called on it

extra gravy

emergingstar wrote: »

If ya talk bollox Ya derserves to be called on it

He's closed his account :eek: You must have really upset him

kryogen

Didn't see the game this evening, how did Welbeck play? Whats the feeling among the support of Arsenal? Think he is settling in well, will do well?

From the bits I have seen he has looked alright but I haven't seen a whole lot tbh

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

Didn't see the game this evening, how did Welbeck play? Whats the feeling among the support of Arsenal? Think he is settling in well, will do well?

From the bits I have seen he has looked alright but I haven't seen a whole lot tbh

I personally think he is doing well and is a very useful foil up front, however, his finishing is his achilles heel. If he improves on that, he'll be a top signing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally think he is doing well and is a very useful foil up front, however, his finishing is his achilles heel. If he improves on that, he'll be a top signing.

Hmm that's the issue with him. It's so hard to tell if his finishing is going to improve.
TBH I never wanted him to be sold and especially not to a rivel as I always have that deep down feeling that it's going to haunt Man U in the end.

dreamers75

kryogen wrote: »

how did Welbeck play?

https://vine.co/v/OZX6P1nw72g

Sums him up tbh

kryogen

Super dummy in fairness

davycc

kryogen wrote: »

Super dummy in fairness

he got himself an assist out of that bit of tekkers:D

extra gravy

Don't suppose anyone has a vine of Welbeck turning Vertonghen like a page and leaving him for dead in the first half?

I didn't realise that United fans loved Welbeck quite so much.

Marty McFly

Marty McFly wrote: »

Agreed that's why I'm hoping if we get the team ticking we do play to his strengths and we get the best from him.

But you're right if we keep playing like we have Giroud up top then we'll never get the best from him.

Trouble is that the team "ticking" wouldn't suit him and wouldn't be how he should be playing. If played counter-attacking stuff maybe. I said when we signed him, him laying off around the centre circle for someone then all-out attack, be great. Happened a few times last season and happened once this season.
I want Danny to prove me wrong. I want him to start banging the goals in. But when he has to come back to midfield to win the ball back it's ****ing retarded to have him up there on his own.

gnfnrhead

People are being way too harsh.

It's a new formation with several changes from last season, on top of the injuries. These things take time. You can't just snap your fingers and everyone is on the same wavelength.

We had over 70% possession and were on the attack for most of the game. We just need to get everyone on the same wavelength and I believe we will come good. We've shown it in bits already this season.

gnfnrhead

gnfnrhead wrote: »

People are being way too harsh.

It's a new formation with several changes from last season, on top of the injuries. These things take time. You can't just snap your fingers and everyone is on the same wavelength.

We had over 70% possession and were on the attack for most of the game. We just need to get everyone on the same wavelength and I believe we will come good. We've shown it in bits already this season.

Do you honestly think 4-1-4-1 can work when one of the 1's is Arteta and the other 1 is Welbeck? While playing Ozil out of position and Walcott when he comes back?

Liam O

Y2KBOS86 wrote: »

Wenger will never be sacked, even if we finish 5th this season ( a real possibility )

Most fans still want him here and view him as irreplaceable, even if they are frustrated with his stubbornness, Moyes being an absolute disaster has kept his job incredibly secure, board are scared ****less he will leave and cost millions to replace.

To turn this team into champions would cost over 200mill.

Wenger and the board have decided it's not worth it, they are probably right.

For our attack to be good enough to win the league and compete for the champions league, we would need a Suarez level striker and a Reus level winger, we are that far behind the likes of Chelsea, City, Bayern, Barca etc.

Then we need a top class international midfielder of Bender's level, a much better central defender than Mert ( he would get raped at the top level vs guys like Suarez, Ibra, Neymar etc ) and a much better left back than Gibbs.

We are 5 guys, 200 mill+ from competing, not gonna happen in one or 2 seasons.

I said at the start of the season Wenger would take 4th tomorrow and build again next summer and got slated, well that's the plan.

He just better hope Ozil, Sanchez, Kos etc have more patience than Henry, Rvp, Cesc etc had.

This is pure bull. A top destroyer, COVER in defense and Giroud getting fit again and Arsenal have a really good squad, easily capable of taking on anyone in the league and easily contenders. Too light in the middle atm but a deep strong midfielder will solve that. Still capable of challenging but Chelsea look to be in a league of their own barring an implosion.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

This is pure bull. A top destroyer, COVER in defense and Giroud getting fit again and Arsenal have a really good squad, easily capable of taking on anyone in the league and easily contenders. Too light in the middle atm but a deep strong midfielder will solve that. Still capable of challenging but Chelsea look to be in a league of their own barring an implosion.

DM/Destroyer, call it what you want. :pac:

Chelsea have had good fixtures so far, they're not much above par for who they've played so far. Which is what makes me even more down about not fancying our chances next week.

emergingstar

I'm not a negative poster at all and try to see the positive in everything

But 4-1-4-1 is some load is shït

2ndcoming

For me I was very disappointed with the performance today. Made a very poor Spurs team who had Adebayor leading the line like a human lamppost look decent.

In individual phases we played quite well without ever looking like a team who believe they can beat Sp*rs, nevermind win the ****ing league.

I'm not one for negativity in general but when the game was there to be won today we didn't even look like we believed we could.

I'm disappointed lads, I should be the only loser up posting at this time. :pac:

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm disappointed lads, I should be the only loser up posting at this time. :pac:

Nah, we're all in the same sh1t boat

kryogen

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't realise that United fans loved Welbeck quite so much.

Some do, some don't I suppose

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm disappointed lads, I should be the only loser up posting at this time. :pac:

Ryder Cup keeping us going I'd say! Be in bed sleeping off the hangover and trying to forget yesterday otherwise

gosplan

Liam O wrote: »

This is pure bull. A top destroyer, COVER in defense and Giroud getting fit again and Arsenal have a really good squad, easily capable of taking on anyone in the league and easily contenders. Too light in the middle atm but a deep strong midfielder will solve that. Still capable of challenging but Chelsea look to be in a league of their own barring an implosion.

I agree with this.

Giroud and Walcott fit and a new DMF and we'd be good enough all round.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

I agree with this.

Giroud and Walcott fit and a new DMF and we'd be good enough all round.

And an improvement on Mert and think we are set then.

gosplan

I'm trying to figure what it is about Wilshire that bugs me when he's playing.

It's kind of that he loses the ball so much. Yeah he's trying attacking stuff in the final third and that's where you'd expect to lose it but it's always lost at his feet. You know I don't think he can just release guys, he's always too central to every move. I think Ozil is more likely to apt space 30 yards away and make it about the space rather than about him. Jack personally tries too much. When he's at 10, it seems like either he will score or assist or we won't score at all.

His energy and physicality are fantastic but he needs to involve others more or he'll never be good enough at 10.

He'd be great in central midfield if you enforced a rule whereby he had to play 2/3 touch football.

Alfred Borden

gosplan wrote: »

I'm trying to figure what it is about Wilshire that bugs me when he's playing.

It's kind of that he loses the ball so much. Yeah he's trying attacking stuff in the final third and that's where you'd expect to lose it but it's always lost at his feet. You know I don't think he can just release guys, he's always too central to every move. I think Ozil is more likely to apt space 30 yards away and make it about the space rather than about him. Jack personally tries too much. When he's at 10, it seems like either he will score or assist or we won't score at all.

His energy and physicality are fantastic but he needs to involve others more or he'll never be good enough at 10.

He'd be great in central midfield if you enforced a rule whereby he had to play 2/3 touch football.

I really dont think we look half as good with Jack in the team. Fair enough he had some decent performances but hardly enough to break his way into our starting team. Starting him is pushing Ozil out wide, taking up Ramseys spaces and him on the ground at least 5 times a game. Our most frustrating player to watch.

AdamD

The funny thing is that Wilshere has lost the ball less than Ramsey in pretty much every game hes played this season (have actually checked the stats), but seems to get berated whenever we play bad. With Ramsey and Arteta out we really need him to come big now, otherwise we're ****ed.


What really worried me about yesterday was that despite absolutely dominating the game, we still managed to give them 3 or 4 massive counter attacking opportunities in the first half, 4 on 3, 4 on 4 etc. against a better team we would have been 3-0 down at half time with 60% possession, that's shocking shape.

Irish Aris

I missed the first half hour because of class.
What I saw from there on (plus a few highlights of the first half), just got me worried.

Whatever about Arteta not being good enough anymore (won't argue that, for some games he isn't), without him yesterday I felt at times as if I was watching two completely disjointed halves of a team. When Tottenham won the ball on their half and started counterattacking, they were reaching outside our box very easily as there was huge spaces with none of our players there.

I won't be able to watch the game next Sunday (will be in class again), but if Arteta is not playing I would suggest park the bus and hope for the best.

gosplan

AdamD wrote: »

The funny thing is that Wilshere has lost the ball less than Ramsey in pretty much every game hes played this season (have actually checked the stats), but seems to get berated whenever we play bad. With Ramsey and Arteta out we really need him to come big now, otherwise we're ****ed.


What really worried me about yesterday was that despite absolutely dominating the game, we still managed to give them 3 or 4 massive counter attacking opportunities in the first half, 4 on 3, 4 on 4 etc. against a better team we would have been 3-0 down at half time with 60% possession, that's shocking shape.

Very true. If you're playing this high possession game with everyone pushed up and full backs overlapping, you just can't lose the ball in central midfield.

Ageuro for example would have taken on Mert and beaten him where Adebayor couldn't.

A lot of it as well is just about scoring first which we seem unable to do.

Irish Aris

gosplan wrote: »

I'm trying to figure what it is about Wilshire that bugs me when he's playing.

It's kind of that he loses the ball so much. Yeah he's trying attacking stuff in the final third and that's where you'd expect to lose it but it's always lost at his feet. You know I don't think he can just release guys, he's always too central to every move. I think Ozil is more likely to apt space 30 yards away and make it about the space rather than about him. Jack personally tries too much. When he's at 10, it seems like either he will score or assist or we won't score at all.

His energy and physicality are fantastic but he needs to involve others more or he'll never be good enough at 10.

He'd be great in central midfield if you enforced a rule whereby he had to play 2/3 touch football.

The bolded part sums it up nicely for me. . .

emergingstar

The one player who def can't start at the bridge next week is Sanchez

Alfred Borden

emergingstar wrote: »

The one player who def can't start at the bridge next week is Sanchez

why?

emergingstar

Raf32 wrote: »

why?

Gives the ball away too much and they will kill us in the counter

UnknownSpecies

emergingstar wrote: »

Gives the ball away too much and they will kill us in the counter

Also works harder than anyone to win it back though.

emergingstar

dorgasm wrote: »

Also works harder than anyone to win it back though.

No good if there breaking

we played our best ame wen both him and wilshere were benched our two worst for running into trouble and loosing the ball

And it's not a coincidence he was dropped for the last two games

wandatowell

I'd be more worried with Flamini tbh.

Him and corner kicks.

emergingstar

wandatowell wrote: »

I'd be more worried with Flamini tbh.

Him and corner kicks.

Not worth thinking about

gosplan

emergingstar wrote: »

The one player who def can't start at the bridge next week is Sanchez

I would say start Ozil central, Sanchez right and Welbeck up top.

Everyone else sits back.

If Wenger tries anything other than this or some variation on this I will really start to question him.

We've finally got the pace to hit teams on the counter. Playing our normal game would basically be handing the match to Chelsea.