Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Alfred Borden

But whats the point in Giroud being a playmaker when Ozil is clearly our playmaker. Ozil behind Sanchez has Bergkamp behind Henry wrote all over it for me.

farna_boy

Raf32 wrote: »

But whats the point in Giroud being a playmaker when Ozil is clearly our playmaker. Ozil behind Sanchez has Bergkamp behind Henry wrote all over it for me.

Maybe in terms of assists but I can't see him contributing that many goals himself. Anyway, how many times did Ozil play behind Giroud last year? What makes you think it will change this year?

extra gravy

farna_boy wrote: »

Of course he doesn't have the pace! Seriously, I don't understand how after two years at Arsenal, people still expect Giroud to play like Suarez or Henry.

He is not that type of player and never will be.

Giroud is the person you play the ball to and whoever runs off him will get the goal. He will also score occasionally, but his main function is as a playmaker. The best description I have heard of him is that he is a less skilful Bergkamp. Now that Giroud has Sanchez next to him we might get to see his true value and not have to listen to the shíte about him being too slow compared to Suarez anymore.

A playmaker?! We have a playmaker, it's a striker we need! What is the point in having a player like Sanchez beside him if his first thought is to play the ball backwards and slow down the attack? Or when we break quickly and he doesn't have the pace to keep up with the attack? Akpom won what should have a penalty with his pace today, if Giroud had been in the same position, he wouldn't have got to the ball. That's the difference. We need to be more direct and use the pace we have now.

UnknownSpecies

Raf32 wrote: »

But whats the point in Giroud being a playmaker when Ozil is clearly our playmaker. Ozil behind Sanchez has Bergkamp behind Henry wrote all over it for me.

Giroud is a target man who looks to set an attacking platform after receiving the ball high up the pitch. I assume that's what farna_boy means. Obviously Ozil is a playmaker too but in a completely different way.

Mr Blobby

Don't think its fair slating Giroud.. He's only back and was obviously not fully fit.

Positives - Thought Sanchez,Debuchy,Akpom,Ox and Chambers were good.

Negatives - We cannot play a midfield like that again. Monaco just strolled through Arteta,Wilshere and Ramsey.

We need a someone strong enough to stop the opposition walking through the middle. We lost that match because are midfield was awful imo.

UnknownSpecies

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Don't think its fair slating Giroud.. He's only back and was obviously not fully fit.

Positives - Thought Sanchez,Debuchy,Akpom,Ox and Chambers were good.

Negatives - We cannot play a midfield like that again. Monaco just strolled through Arteta,Wilshere and Ramsey.

We need a someone strong enough to stop the opposition walking through the middle. We lost that match because are midfield was awful imo.

Agree with all of the above. Especially about not being able to play Arteta and Wilshere together. It was the same last year, when they play together, the centre of our midfield may aswell have a red carpet for the opposition to walk through. I think Arteta's regressed to the point where we shouldn't be relying on him unless we absolutely have nobody else.

Alfred Borden

Who does Wilshere play well with though? cant play with Arteta or Ramsey and questionable with Flamini? Only our third choice #10 too, only hope he has of getting games is if Ramsey gets injured.

greendom

Wenger on Giroud....

Wenger: "Giroud was not ready today - I don't know if I will play him in the Community Shield"

"Giroud had only three weeks' rest and he will be back, he is working very hard in training but needs more time"

king Henry 14

So as we've all been saying for ages a DM is an absolute necessity. Sooner Wenger gets it sorted the better. The balance in midfield is all wrong without a proven ( hopefully world class ) defensive midfielder.

extra gravy

dorgasm wrote: »

Giroud is a target man who looks to set an attacking platform after receiving the ball high up the pitch. I assume that's what farna_boy means. Obviously Ozil is a playmaker too but in a completely different way.

Target men are for the Stokes and Palaces who don't have the quality to play fluid attacking football. Our attacking platform should begin with a strong DM at the base of midfield who can distribute to the pace out wide and up front. None of this playing it into Giroud and him either flicking it nowhere or turning his back to goal and passing it back. I'm not slating him by the way, he's good at what he does most of the time but his style of play is not the Arsenal way. I want to see us playing creative attacking football again not the slow and unimaginative stuff we saw regularly last season. We have the players to do that now providing we get a good DM to add some steel to our midfield.

Alfred Borden

extra gravy wrote: »

Target men are for the Stokes and Palaces who don't have the quality to play fluid attacking football. Our attacking platform should begin with a strong DM at the base of midfield who can distribute to the pace out wide and up front. None of this playing it into Giroud and him either flicking it nowhere or turning his back to goal and passing it back. I'm not slating him by the way, he's good at what he does most of the time but his style of play is not the Arsenal way. I want to see us playing creative attacking football again not the slow and unimaginative stuff we saw regularly last season. We have the players to do that now providing we get a good DM to add some steel to our midfield.

This!
Giroud can be a great plan B and can be thrown on when things arent going our way.

farna_boy

extra gravy wrote: »

Target men are for the Stokes and Palaces who don't have the quality to play fluid attacking football. Our attacking platform should begin with a strong DM at the base of midfield who can distribute to the pace out wide and up front. None of this playing it into Giroud and him either flicking it nowhere or turning his back to goal and passing it back. I'm not slating him by the way, he's good at what he does most of the time but his style of play is not the Arsenal way. I want to see us playing creative attacking football again not the slow and unimaginative stuff we saw regularly last season. We have the players to do that now providing we get a good DM to add some steel to our midfield.

That sounds like a pile of crap to be honest. Last year with Giroud in our side we won the FA cup. In the previous 9 years we had the likes of van Persie and played the what I can only assume is what you call "the Arsenal way" and it got us no where.

I don't believe we should restrict ourselves to play one way and only that way. It makes us predictable and easy to play against and would much prefer if we could change our style of play as we need it and which ever way will win us the match. If that means playing Giroud as a target man and Ramsey in a clown suit so be it.

Marty McFly

extra gravy wrote: »

Target men are for the Stokes and Palaces who don't have the quality to play fluid attacking football. Our attacking platform should begin with a strong DM at the base of midfield who can distribute to the pace out wide and up front. None of this playing it into Giroud and him either flicking it nowhere or turning his back to goal and passing it back. I'm not slating him by the way, he's good at what he does most of the time but his style of play is not the Arsenal way. I want to see us playing creative attacking football again not the slow and unimaginative stuff we saw regularly last season. We have the players to do that now providing we get a good DM to add some steel to our midfield.

Hit the nail on the head today with your posts for me.

I like Giroud but really want to see him relegated to the bench as an alternative this season rather than a regular starter, we don't need a playmaker we have Ozil for that give him player with pace in front of him and let him pick out the runs of Sanchez, Ramsey, Walcott etc.

I would love to see a front three of Ox, Walcott, and Sanchez an attack with that much pace would scare the crap out of most defenses. Like it or not Giroud can be easy to mark and play against as he slows things down, yes his link up play can be brilliant but not always and it doesn't outweigh the fact he slows everything down or that his finishing at time can leave a lot to be desired.

Now I'm not basing that one todays performance pre season means fcuk all really apart from a nice way to watch some games and for players to get some match fitness. I'm basing it on Giroud in general imo.

Dapics

I'd rather Akpom gets playing time than Giroud.

He really really isn't up to the arsenal standard and anyone who says that he is needs to take the blinkers off.

Gonna leave this here so I can be quoted in the future - Giroud will not get more goals this season than last season and will this season be shown to be the player he really is - plain average.

Akpom for me is a better striker - there I said it.

Gravy put it perfectly.

I ain't bashing Giroud, I have respect for him and wish him the best. I'm just being brutally honest here. He is average, the likes of Bony would do a similar/better job than him.

extra gravy

farna_boy wrote: »

That sounds like a pile of crap to be honest. Last year with Giroud in our side we won the FA cup. In the previous 9 years we had the likes of van Persie and played the what I can only assume is what you call "the Arsenal way" and it got us no where.

I don't believe we should restrict ourselves to play one way and only that way. It makes us predictable and easy to play against and would much prefer if we could change our style of play as we need it and which ever way will win us the match. If that means playing Giroud as a target man and Ramsey in a clown suit so be it.

We got nowhere because we couldn't invest in the team and the best players wanted to leave to win trophies elsewhere. That's no longer the case. Sanogo had more of an input into our FA Cup win than Giroud had tbh. Nobody's saying we should restrict ourselves to one way of playing but all the top teams now play with pace and Giroud doesn't have any. As Raf said, he should be a plan B off the bench and not our main striker.

KINGVictor

Dapics wrote: »

I'd rather Akpom gets playing time than Giroud.

He really really isn't up to the arsenal standard and anyone who says that he is needs to take the blinkers off.

Gonna leave this here so I can be quoted in the future - Giroud will not get more goals this season than last season and will this season be shown to be the player he really is - plain average.

Akpom for me is a better striker - there I said it.

Gravy put it perfectly.

I ain't bashing Giroud, I have respect for him and wish him the best. I'm just being brutally honest here. He is average, the likes of Bony would do a similar/better job than him.

That is ridiculous..

Drexel

Dapics wrote: »

I'd rather Akpom gets playing time than Giroud.

He really really isn't up to the arsenal standard and anyone who says that he is needs to take the blinkers off.

Gonna leave this here so I can be quoted in the future - Giroud will not get more goals this season than last season and will this season be shown to be the player he really is - plain average.

Akpom for me is a better striker - there I said it.

Gravy put it perfectly.

I ain't bashing Giroud, I have respect for him and wish him the best. I'm just being brutally honest here. He is average, the likes of Bony would do a similar/better job than him.

What a stupid post. Akpom is a better striker. Has he even scored a goal for us. Worst statement I've ever seen on this thread. Giroud is no world beater but what youre saying is ridiculous. He is very important in the team the way we set up. His hold up play brings our midfield into the game which let's them score goals also. You have ignored all that. Plus I thought Giroud had a very good season last year.

gnfnrhead

Funny how things change in 24 hours.

Beat Benfica: It's only pre-season. It doesnt mean anything.
Lose to Monaco: We're awful at everything, we need to replace almost everyone!

Dapics

KINGVictor wrote: »

That is ridiculous..

Maybe the bit about Akpom yeah, but the rest I would think not.

And yeah I didnt bother to go into detail because as I said, Gravy put it perfectly.

Mr Blobby

Raf32 wrote: »

Who does Wilshere play well with though? cant play with Arteta or Ramsey and questionable with Flamini? Only our third choice #10 too, only hope he has of getting games is if Ramsey gets injured.

He needs to shape up soon!
We could always play him where Cazorla plays and let him drift in. He played there at the start of the year and did great.

But he isn't a central mid and shouldn't be playing there.

farna_boy

extra gravy wrote: »

We got nowhere because we couldn't invest in the team and the best players wanted to leave to win trophies elsewhere. That's no longer the case. Sanogo had more of an input into our FA Cup win than Giroud had tbh. Nobody's saying we should restrict ourselves to one way of playing but all the top teams now play with pace and Giroud doesn't have any. As Raf said, he should be a plan B off the bench and not our main striker.

Would this be despite the fact that Giroud hit the crossbar, set up Sanago for his only shot of the game (that he put wide) or the fact that Giroud got the assist for Ramsey's goal?

omega man

Raf32 wrote: »

This!
Giroud can be a great plan B and can be thrown on when things arent going our way.

Yes but unfortunately he's still our no1 CF going into the new season. Doesn't fill me with confidence.

Our fringe players performed well yesterday yet a near full strength team looked poor today, pre season or not. Our central mid field was non existent but on a positive note chambers and debuchy looked the real deal. I've no doubt they'll be arsenal regulars for many years to come.

I do agree with others that sadly Arteta's legs are gone and he should only be a squad player. His presence around the team and club is still vital however.

As I mentioned above I'm also worried about Giroud. All the creativity in the world from our mid field is useless unless we're scoring goals and although I'm sure we'll score plenty from mid field I'm not so sure about Girouds contribution in terms of winning the EPL, CL etc. I really hope he proves me wrong and that Sanchez moves into a CF role and then who knows....

extra gravy

farna_boy wrote: »

Would this be despite the fact that Giroud hit the crossbar, set up Sanago for his only shot of the game (that he put wide) or the fact that Giroud got the assist for Ramsey's goal?

Sanogo's introduction into the game and the subsequent switch to 4-4-2 changed everything I think. Not undermining Giroud's assist, it was a great piece of skill but I was more impressed with Sanogo's performance in the final and against Liverpool.

Marty McFly

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Funny how things change in 24 hours.

Beat Benfica: It's only pre-season. It doesnt mean anything.
Lose to Monaco: We're awful at everything, we need to replace almost everyone!

In fairness I don't think anyone has implied as such nor did they after the Benfica game.

AdamD

greendom wrote: »

Why ?

That could be just the confidence boost he needed. Wenger said yesterday that he had been essentially out injured for 2 years. That's a very long time for a young player. Looks like he's fully fit now and add in some confidence and there's no reason why he can't be a great squad player. I'm not saying he will ever be Theirry Henry btw

There was nothing special about any of his finishes yesterday but it was all about the movement and timing. He also has the power to unsettle defenders.

People are getting carried away, 3 of his goals were from 4 yards into an empty net.

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Funny how things change in 24 hours.

Beat Benfica: It's only pre-season. It doesnt mean anything.
Lose to Monaco: We're awful at everything, we need to replace almost everyone!

Pretty sure the only player people want replaced is Giroud, and that's been the case for a long time before the Monaco game. The team just looks significantly more dangerous without him.

Drexel

Pretty sure the only player people want replaced is Giroud, and that's been the case for a long time before the Monaco game. The team just looks significantly more dangerous without him.[/quote]

Who have we looked more dangerous against without Giroud? Don't say Benfica the other night

king Henry 14

I think giroud has always done a great job for us. Admittedly he's not the superstar striker that a lot of us crave but Wenger has full trust in him to lead the line and I think we should give him this season to prove he can be our main striker. He has improved every season since joining and if that continues we should be ok. Sanchez and Sanogo should provide enough competition to keep him on his toes and hopefully this will make him focus a bit more. The season hasn't started yet so let's give him a chance and support him and we can make better judgement come Christmas. Once he's fully fit I reckon he will have a big season for us.

batistuta9

jonny666 wrote: »

Who have we looked more dangerous against without Giroud? Don't say Benfica the other night

in all the games sanogo played last season arsenal looked & played better than with giroud in the team

hopefully sanchez is played through the middle

Pudders

I will be slated for this but Sanogo is a donkey. He is not a striker that any of the top 6 should have.

Don't let yesterday fool you.

EuropeanSon

batistuta9 wrote: »

in all the games sanogo played last season arsenal looked & played better than with giroud in the team

hopefully sanchez is played through the middle

Go away with that. Napoli, Liverpool, Dortmund were probably our three best results last year, and Giroud played in all of them. He also won us the NLD.

Giroud contributed more to our success last year than anyone bar Ramsey and the defence.

KINGVictor

Pudders wrote: »

I will be slated for this but Sanogo is a donkey. He is not a striker that any of the top 6 should have.

Don't let yesterday fool you.

A bit harsh I think. He is just 21, he still has a few years to improve and establish himself, if Arsene believes in him, surely he must have some prospects .

He lacks composure at goal but he is not particularly a bad player at all. Going forward, I think his goals yesterday would give him a lot of confidence. I will take him over Ricky Lambert for example...

gosplan

batistuta9 wrote: »

in all the games sanogo played last season arsenal looked & played better than with giroud in the team

hopefully sanchez is played through the middle

Are you effectively saying here that a 2-1 over Liverpool, a loss to Munich ands draw against Wigan were our best performances of the year?

Jesus, I get that Giroud isn't perfect but he gets a rediculously hard time here.

Sanogo was not better than Giroud last year. There is no way in hell people can twist it to say he was.

Though I love the idea that Giroud could only assist in the FA cup final because Sanogo occupied some of the defence. FFS, I could do that!

Pudders

KINGVictor wrote: »

A bit harsh I think. He is just 21, he still has a few years to improve and establish himself, if Arsene believes in him, surely he must have some prospects .

He lacks composure at goal but he is not particularly a bad player at all. Going forward, I think his goals yesterday would give him a lot of confidence. I will take him over Ricky Lambert for example...

We'd never sign lambert.

batistuta9

giroud has his place but arsenal are better without him starting

you'll see this season

KINGVictor

Pudders wrote: »

We'd never sign lambert.

But you just said that Sanogo is not a striker that any top 6 team should have. Lambert is currently the second top striker for Liverpool.

gosplan

And on Arteta,

There are certain players that put a lot into these preseason matches.

Sanogo, Campbell, Chambers, Bellerin - new players or players with something to prove.

The experienced players don't bother. It's just an elaborate run around.

I mean Arteta? Why the **** would he spend more energy than necessary chasing around in a meaningless match. He's just being professional. He's got a limited amount of gas at his age and putting in a good season is far more about looking after yourself through the season and stayig in shape over the summer rather than killing yourself and trying to build it all back up after.

Even the old idea of preseason as hell has gone out the window. They all talk it up but that was for the era when players drank beer and ate chips in Marbella for six weeks. These guys are far more professional now and look after themselves better.

Additionally the Arteta bashing is getting rediculous. It's like since we've been linked with Khedira, Arteta's become a joke of a player. The suggestion today that his legs were gone? So in six weeks he goes from playing twice a week to not being able to manage a run out in a friendly.

Obviously there were a handful of games last season where we clearly needed more but those aside he was really effective.

Drexel

batistuta9 wrote: »

giroud has his place but arsenal are better without him starting
you'll see this season

That's just wrong. No one else can hold the ball up like him. For teams sitting deep that is essential to how we play. Sanchez may be able to, I don't know but having anyone else up there, Walcott, Pod or sanogo and the ball doesn't stick up top.

KINGVictor

gosplan wrote: »

And on Arteta,

There are certain players that put a lot into these preseason matches.

Sanogo, Campbell, Chambers, Bellerin - new players or players with something to prove.

The experiences players don't bother. It's just an elaborate run around.

I mean Arteta? Why the **** would he spend more energy than necessary chasing around in a meaningless match. He's just being professional. He's got a limited amount of gas at his age and putting in a good season is far more about looking after yourself through the season and stayig in shape over the summer rather than killing yourself and trying to guile it all back up after.

Even the old idea of preseason as hell has gone out the window. They all talk it up but that was for the era when players drank beer and ate chips in Marbella for six weeks. These guys are far more professional now and look after themselves better.

Additionally the Arteta bashing is getting rediculous. It's like since we've been linked with Khedira, Arteta's become a joke of a player. The suggestion today that his legs were gone? So in six weeks he goes from playing twice a week to not being able to manage a run out in a friendly.

Obviously there were a handful of games last season where we clearly needed more but those aside he was really effective.

1000 likes. Totally spot on about Arteta.

He is ageing no doubt but I still feel he is key component of the team, arguably more reliable that Flamini. Even we sign a new DM, we still need a dependable option/alternative.

AdamD

jonny666 wrote: »

That's just wrong. No one else can hold the ball up like him. For teams sitting deep that is essential to how we play. Sanchez may be able to, I don't know but having anyone else up there, Walcott, Pod or sanogo and the ball doesn't stick up top.

This kind of baffles me. There are probably only 3 or 4 teams in Europe Arsenal can play against and need somebody to 'hold the ball up'. Why is it seen as such a necessity when we dominate possession and territory in most of the games we play?

emergingstar

I like arteta, love the man actually.
But he is coming to an end and if we don't upgrade in that position we won't win the league

On wilshere he will come good I have no doubt about it

x PyRo

:pac:

ClareVisitor

ClareVisitor wrote: »

Just read via Amy Lawrence at The Guardian (She's a Gooner) that Diaby wasn't running properly in the warm down yesterday so they decided against playing him today. Just a precaution apparently. Do hope he's okay, for those half dozen games a season he's usually pretty good!

Perhaps this new fitness coach we have could be vital in this regard. Diaby's running could have perhaps gone unnoticed with the regime of old.

Drexel

AdamD wrote: »

This kind of baffles me. There are probably only 3 or 4 teams in Europe Arsenal can play against and need somebody to 'hold the ball up'. Why is it seen as such a necessity when we dominate possession and territory in most of the games we play?

So the midfielder can run past defenders

Marty McFly

A Portugese paper is reporting we have made a 23.9m bid for Carvalho

salmocab

Have a good feeling about this week transfer wise. unlike most preseasons when we seem to be bouncing all over the place playing god knows who we have a good few days for Wenger and the board to do the business. Its usually not till the season starts that everyone is at their desks every day.

tayto lover

Don't give a damn about pre-season friendlies as all they are good for is getting players fit and trying new lads and new tactics.
If we play rubbish against Palace though I might have something to say.
Any sign of a new DM?

Mickeroo

Few murmurings about another bid for Carvalho but that's all really.

greendom

David Barrett the BT Marketing Manager who came up with the anti-Arsenal ads promoting the new season, is a Spurs season ticket holder

He's just been sacked for the campaign. His bosses should never have allowed them to be aired in the first place.

Mr Blobby

greendom wrote: »

David Barrett the BT Marketing Manager who came up with the anti-Arsenal ads promoting the new season, is a Spurs season ticket holder

He's just been sacked for the campaign. His bosses should never have allowed them to be aired in the first place.

Usually I wouldn'tt be happy with someone getting the sack.


But **** 'em...

CatInABox

greendom wrote: »

David Barrett the BT Marketing Manager who came up with the anti-Arsenal ads promoting the new season, is a Spurs season ticket holder

He's just been sacked for the campaign. His bosses should never have allowed them to be aired in the first place.

Have to admit, out of all the shenanigans that have been going on during the summer, those ads were truly the most bizarre thing I've seen.

I mean, if you're in a partnership with a company, one of the few things that you should do is release an ad that slags them off.