Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

Care to update the back 4 to reflect our amazing depth?

Miquel and Bellerin to replace Jenkinson and Vermaelen at the moment. Ajayi and Plezeguero for Capital One Cup games. Plenty of time before August 31 for changes to that and plenty of room for optimism for 2014/15.

The addition of Carvalho, Javi Martinez or a similar player to cover CB/CDM would be enough.

Quazzie

symbolic wrote: »

And he's back! ☺

It probably took him all morning to find that post to bitch and moan about. :rolleyes:

How useless are some of you at using computers if you think it took more than 15 seconds to find that post? Christ.

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

Ardennes1944

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

No, we're not. But we're willing to wait until the market is closed to judge. Wenger said we will sign one more, maybe 2 last weekend.

Awesomeness

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

No but we have got 15 mil for him and are told we are actively looking for another defender though it might be someone who can play cb and cdm.

I am happy enough with that

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

We are going to sign a replacement, it's not rocket science

Sorry replied to the wrong post originally

Jaafa

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

Yes immensely happy. In fact lets sell mert and kos too and buy messi to play as a lone CB in a 1-5-5 formation. /s

I don't understand questions like yours, you know what we're going to say. No one has said we're happy as things stand, we've been actively discussing who could be brought in to replace him and there's still a little under a month to go in the transfer window.

It would be impossible to have a player signed beforehand so that there's no chance of being left stuck should an injury be picked up early in the season?

gandalf

Deleted User wrote: »

Are people actually happy with our CB options if Vermaelen goes? Really?

Assuming we are buying a replacement of equal quality and Vermaelen does go to Barca and not United then yes I am. There is no point trying to hold onto a player who doesn't want to play for us and the price reported if correct is not bad for a player who is injury prone with 1 year left on his contract.

wandatowell

Rumors have it Puma aren't happy with Vic Akers.

Mr Blobby

I really don't see how anyone could be annoyed by Verm moving

He had 1yr left and wanted out! and instead of giving him to our biggest rivals we shipped him off abroad and got a cracking deal for it.

I'm also 100% confident we'll sign a replacement.

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

Assuming we are buying a replacement of equal quality and Vermaelen does go to Barca and not United then yes I am. There is no point trying to hold onto a player who doesn't want to play for us and the price reported if correct is not bad for a player who is injury prone with 1 year left on his contract.

I can't think of many as good as him that'll be too easily available. The 5 positions in front of the 'keeper are looking awfully threadbare.

gandalf

button I'm sensing you're a glass half empty sort of guy

HazDanz

gandalf wrote: »

button I'm sensing you're a glass half empty sort of guy

I understand where he is coming from though. We will need a stellar buy to have as good a back up as Verm in the squad.

flyingoutside

wandatowell wrote: »

Rumors have it Puma aren't happy with Vic Akers.

Why so?

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

button I'm sensing you're a glass half empty sort of guy

Haven't signed a DM, a CB or RB injury means putting in a kid or utility player. I'm not happy with that.


It's my birthday and I started it by going to the dentist and finding out my teeth are all perfect. This is as good as it gets with me. :pac:

shano_88

Obviously if we dont replace Vermaelen were in trouble but thats not going to happen.

Would anyone take Agger from Liverpool? Rumours he might be leaving. Ive always though he was decent anytime ive seen him.

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

Obviously if we dont replace Vermaelen were in trouble but thats not going to happen.

Would anyone take Agger from Liverpool? Rumours he might be leaving. Ive always though he was decent anytime ive seen him.

I'd say he'll be looking to be starting.

Alfred Borden

shano_88 wrote: »

Obviously if we dont replace Vermaelen were in trouble but thats not going to happen.

Would anyone take Agger from Liverpool? Rumours he might be leaving. Ive always though he was decent anytime ive seen him.

Yup always rated him myself. Only need a 3rd/4th choice so him, Micah Richards or Reid from West Ham would all do.

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be impossible to have a player signed beforehand so that there's no chance of being left stuck should an injury be picked up early in the season?

Don't see Utd. signing anyone or Spurs. Both squads well short of what is needed.

Don't see replacement for Suarez at Liverpool either.

Everton have only made last season's loan signing permanent.

Where is that CB that City need? On the brink of signing for weeks.

We have done great business so far.

What is with you? You place impossible standards in place just so that you can criticise. Either that or you have an inability to understand the workings of the transfer market as being a bit different to the weekly Tesco shopping.

Godge

Godge wrote: »

Don't see Utd. signing anyone or Spurs. Both squads well short of what is needed.

Don't see replacement for Suarez at Liverpool either.

Everton have only made last season's loan signing permanent.

Where is that CB that City need? On the brink of signing for weeks.

We have done great business so far.

What is with you? You place impossible standards in place just so that you can criticise. Either that or you have an inability to understand the workings of the transfer market as being a bit different to the weekly Tesco shopping.

Impossible standards? Address what I've said and what I say. People want to talk about squad depth and so on. We've improved the first 11 with Sanchez, the next 11 has disimproved if Vermaelen goes. It's pretty straightforward.

Mr Blobby

Deleted User wrote: »

Impossible standards? Address what I've said and what I say. People want to talk about squad depth and so on. We've improved the first 11 with Sanchez, the next 11 has disimproved if Vermaelen goes. It's pretty straightforward.

Not necessarily..

Bringing in Chambers and Campbell helps our backup 11.
Also with Alexis having a starting spot we'd also have Cazorla for our backup 11.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Impossible standards? Address what I've said and what I say. People want to talk about squad depth and so on. We've improved the first 11 with Sanchez, the next 11 has disimproved if Vermaelen goes. It's pretty straightforward.

Feck it.

I'll bite.

(Honestly Button!)

Yes we've strengthened the first team with Alexis.

But we'll also be strengthening it with the return of Walcott

And (albeit debateably) we've also strengthened it with Debuchy. (There's a reason he kept Sagna from the French squad)

Regarding the second squad:

Sanogo- Gonna be better, recovered from his injury, started scoring goals (albeit in friendly's, but it's great for confidence)

Oxo is back from injury
Cazorla has been "demoted" to the second squad
Campbell had a great world cup. Doesn't even make the second string.

Chambers is an addition. We went through last season with 3cb's.

So your only problem HAS to be that we're selling TV and we don't have a replacement lined up.

FFS man, there's 23 days left in the transfer market!

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

Impossible standards? Address what I've said and what I say. People want to talk about squad depth and so on. We've improved the first 11 with Sanchez, the next 11 has disimproved if Vermaelen goes. It's pretty straightforward.

Rubbish. Complete rubbish, ignoring all of the transfer movement.

First team

Debuchy for Sagna - improvement
Sanchez to replace Cazorla - improvement

Back-up

Ospina to replace Fabianski - improvement
Chambers to replace Jenkinson - improvement
Campbell to replace Bendtner - improvement
Cazorla to replace Miyaichi - improvement
Coquelin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Bellerin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Martinez to replace Viviaino - improvement

Miquel to replace Vermaelen - disimprovement

9 signs of improvement to one of disimprovement and you still moan.

If we add Carvalho the list will read

Carvalho to replace Vermaelen - improvement
Miquel extra body added to back-up - improvement

11 squad improvements, I will admit some of them very minor but a transfer window that nobody could complain about. Even now with only one disimprovement, there is nothing to complain about.

wandatowell

Godge wrote: »

Martinez to replace Viviaino - improvement

Impossible to call, cant really say we've seen enough of either :pac:

Spot on with the rest of your analysis though.

Godge

wandatowell wrote: »

Impossible to call, cant really say we've seen enough of either :pac:

Spot on with the rest of your analysis though.

Martinez actually played and did well for Sheffield Wednesday last season.

Viviano actually played and did badly for Arsenal U-21 last season.

Minor improvement.

Mr Blobby

Mr Blobby wrote: »

Not necessarily..

Bringing in Chambers and Campbell helps our backup 11.
Also with Alexis having a starting spot we'd also have Cazorla for our backup 11.

While losing Vermaelen and Jenkinson. The back 4 is paper thin.

Deleted User wrote: »

Feck it.

I'll bite.

(Honestly Button!)

Yes we've strengthened the first team with Alexis.

But we'll also be strengthening it with the return of Walcott

And (albeit debateably) we've also strengthened it with Debuchy. (There's a reason he kept Sagna from the French squad)

Regarding the second squad:

Sanogo- Gonna be better, recovered from his injury, started scoring goals (albeit in friendly's, but it's great for confidence)

Oxo is back from injury
Cazorla has been "demoted" to the second squad
Campbell had a great world cup. Doesn't even make the second string.

Chambers is an addition. We went through last season with 3cb's.

So your only problem HAS to be that we're selling TV and we don't have a replacement lined up.

FFS man, there's 23 days left in the transfer market!

Godge wrote: »

Rubbish. Complete rubbish, ignoring all of the transfer movement.

First team

Debuchy for Sagna - improvement
Sanchez to replace Cazorla - improvement

Back-up

Ospina to replace Fabianski - improvement
Chambers to replace Jenkinson - improvement
Campbell to replace Bendtner - improvement
Cazorla to replace Miyaichi - improvement
Coquelin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Bellerin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Martinez to replace Viviaino - improvement

Miquel to replace Vermaelen - disimprovement

9 signs of improvement to one of disimprovement and you still moan.

If we add Carvalho the list will read

Carvalho to replace Vermaelen - improvement
Miquel extra body added to back-up - improvement

11 squad improvements, I will admit some of them very minor but a transfer window that nobody could complain about. Even now with only one disimprovement, there is nothing to complain about.

How big are you expecting the squad to be? :P

The 2nd 11 is from this:



Which I think is pretty accurate.
So:
Ospina - Marginal upgrade if at all
Monreal - Same as last season
Chambers - Disimprovement
Miquel - Disimprovement
RB - Disimprovement
Wilshere - Same as last year
Flamini - Same as last year
Podolski - Same as last year
Cazorla - Improvement
AOC - Same as last year
Sanogo - Same as last year

I make that 3 worse, one better, one possibly better.



As for using Walcott to say the squad has improved, it's really hard to take someone seriously when they say that in a non-joking manner.

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

Care to update the back 4 to reflect our amazing depth?

I'd stick Miquel in for Vermaelen for the time being, that's my update. 23 days left and Wenger is definitely looking for a player who can fill CB/DM and I'm confident he'll get it done too.

Also just on the debate about whether Debuchy is an upgrade on Sagna. I'm happy with Debuchy and just from our pre season games, he looks like he'll do a good job with us. But, saying he's an improvement because he keeps Sagna out of the French squad doesn't hold water considering Kos was being kept out of the same squad by Sakho. That still blows my mind.

Mr Blobby

Deleted User wrote: »

Which I think is pretty accurate.
So:
Ospina - Marginal upgrade if at all

Really!!! Marginal!!

Ospina will push Szczesny to starting spot!

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

Chambers - Disimprovement

It's way too early to say that he's a step backwards. Wenger sees enough in him to Splash out £16m for him, a fee which would have been close to our club record a few short years ago, so I think I'll trust his judgement on this one. If Chambers is as versatile as we're led to believe then I think he's an improvement for sure.

Deleted User wrote: »

As for using Walcott to say the squad has improved, it's really hard to take someone seriously when they say that in a non-joking manner.

I actually understand why you don't like hearing this argument since it comes off like an excuse not to strengthen, but having an injury free Walcott this season will make our squad stronger than last years ie. improve the squad, and there's no denying that.

greendom

dorgasm wrote: »

It's way too early to say that he's a step backwards. Wenger sees enough in him to Splash out £16m for him, a fee which would have been close to our club record a few short years ago, so Ithink I'll trust his judgement on this one. If Chambers is as versatile as we're led to believe then I think he's an improvement for sure.

I actually understand why you don't like hearing this argument since it comes off like an excuse not to strengthen, but having an injury free Walcott this season will make our squad stronger than last years ie. improve the squad, and there's no denying that.

Absolutely and that reminds me, we have strengthened elsewhere as well. With the new training/fitness guru who was with the German squad previously.

He could make a huge difference to how many minutes our first 11 is actually playing week in week out.

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

How big are you expecting the squad to be? :P

The 2nd 11 is from this:


.

You are using Lineup builder to assess the squad (Fantasy Football substitute). I think that sums it up.

I am using players actually signed on arsenal.com.

I also am accepting that the squad is bigger than 22, bigger than 25 as it includes U-21s such as the Ox, Chambers, Gnabry, Bellerin, Hayden, Akpom etc.

Enough said.

dorgasm

dorgasm wrote: »

It's way too early to say that he's a step backwards. Wenger sees enough in him to Splash out £16m for him, a fee which would have been close to our club record a few short years ago, so Ithink I'll trust his judgement on this one. If Chambers is as versatile as we're led to believe then I think he's an improvement for sure.

He's got an awful lot to do to show that he's an upgrade on Vermaelen.

I actually understand why you don't like hearing this argument since it comes off like an excuse not to strengthen, but having an injury free Walcott this season will make our squad stronger than last years ie. improve the squad, and there's no denying that.

It's more that we at least used to see that for what it is and take the piss with the whole "He's like a new signing" rubbish. Apparently now though it's been accepted as a fair statement. Depressing really.

Godge

Godge wrote: »

You are using Lineup builder to assess the squad (Fantasy Football substitute). I think that sums it up.

I am using players actually signed on arsenal.com.

I also am accepting that the squad is bigger than 22, bigger than 25 as it includes U-21s such as the Ox, Chambers, Gnabry, Bellerin, Hayden, Akpom etc.

Enough said.

I'm talking about 1st 11 and 2nd 11. Why someone brought Miyachi into it I don't know.

UnknownSpecies

Deleted User wrote: »

He's got an awful lot to do to show that he's an upgrade on Vermaelen.

Hard to be an improvement of the Vermaelen of old. The Vermaelen we have now is a shadow of himself.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's more that we at least used to see that for what it is and take the piss with the whole "He's like a new signing" rubbish. Apparently now though it's been accepted as a fair statement. Depressing really.

This is different though. That used to be an excuse for making no new signings. Now that we've actually made some big signings, it's definitely fair to say. When we say that now, we mean that he improves our squad and gives it depth, compared to before, when he'd be labeled 'like a new signing' and be our only option.

greendom wrote: »

Absolutely and that reminds me, we have strengthened elsewhere as well. With the new training/fitness guru who was with the German squad previously.

It's going to be even more vital post WC for getting everyone back up to speed.

greendom

Deleted User wrote: »

He's got an awful lot to do to show that he's an upgrade on Vermaelen.


It's more that we at least used to see that for what it is and take the piss with the whole "He's like a new signing" rubbish. Apparently now though it's been accepted as a fair statement. Depressing really.

Our top scorer from 2 years ago only played 13 matches last season. Having him back and playing a major part in the season can only be a good thing.

Spanish Johnny

How anyone can say we haven't strengthened in terms of first team quality and squad depth is beyond me.

Even though I find those lineup builders a bit of fun what it really demonstrates is that outside of 2 first choice teams we still have Rosicky, Gnabry and Diaby if fit and also a clear indication of another first team signing.

How can this not be grasped and welcomed??

It's the strength in depth im most pleased with but there seems to be a real sense that Wenger will go for that DM we have been all talking about. If that player is a first teamer I think this window will have surpassed all our realistic expectations last May. We dreamed it would happen but the actuality?

If we get that DM/DC we would be a much more formidable outfit even if we suffered the exact same injuries as last year and I think that underlines the improvement.

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Our top scorer from 2 years ago only played 13 matches last season. Having him back and playing a major part in the season can only be a good thing.

Good to have Walcott back, but 14 league goals that season from him making him top scorer says a lot.

dorgasm wrote: »

Hard to be an improvement of the Vermaelen of old. The Vermaelen we have now is a shadow of himself.



This is different though. That used to be an excuse for making no new signings. Now that we've actually made some big signings, it's definitely fair to say. When we say that now, we mean that he improves our squad and gives it depth, compared to before, when he'd be labeled 'like a new signing' and be our only option.

I'd still take Vermaelen for now.

We're still only an injury or 2 away from exactly where we were last season.


Don't get me wrong, we should get top 4, not doing that would be a massive failure IMO. However I don't see us improving by more than 4/5 points which ain't gonna be enough to win the league unless Chelsea and City stand still, and I expect both, particularly City to push on this season.
Unless there's a change in tactics or the signing of a top DM we're not getting past the 1/4s in the CL.

If we do win the league this year it'll be down to the new medical team. :pac:

Dapics

I would much rather see Isaac Hayden/U-21 CB be promoted to the senior squad and the purchase of a DM than the purchase of a CB and no DM.

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm talking about 1st 11 and 2nd 11. Why someone brought Miyachi into it I don't know.

you are the only one talking about 1st 11 and 2nd 11.

That is a very outdated concept in a world of 25-man squads plus U-21s and the increasing adaptability of modern players in a total football environment.

Get with the times, man.

Hyzepher

I'd say let ManU do all the scouting for us in terms of a CB and then we just swoop in and offer CL football and the unbeatable London location - happy days

Godge

Godge wrote: »

you are the only one talking about 1st 11 and 2nd 11.

That is a very outdated concept in a world of 25-man squads plus U-21s and the increasing adaptability of modern players in a total football environment.

Get with the times, man.

23 players started PL matches last season for Arsenal, so it's not that far off.

AdamD

Delighted we've told United where to go. 15m is a great fee tbh, need a replacement ASAP though, Chambers as 3rd choice is nonsense.

Pepe LeFrits

Chambers looks head and shoulders above Jenkinson already. For one he's able to control a football.

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

23 players started PL matches last season for Arsenal, so it's not that far off.

http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/statistics?season=2013/14


You are writing off Europe and the F.A. Cup then?

27 players started a competitive game for Arsenal last season, another 5 made substitute appearances.

19 different players scored for the first team last season.

You stick with your 1st 11 and 2nd 11, the rest of us will just move on.

Godge

Godge wrote: »

http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/statistics?season=2013/14


You are writing off Europe and the F.A. Cup then?

27 players started a competitive game for Arsenal last season, another 5 made substitute appearances.

19 different players scored for the first team last season.

How many players who didn't start in the league DID start in the CL?
The back-up/youth players are for the cup, same as always.

You stick with your 1st 11 and 2nd 11, the rest of us will just move on.

And this is why it's impossible to have a worthwhile discussion on this thread.

Godge

Deleted User wrote: »

How many players who didn't start in the league DID start in the CL?
The back-up/youth players are for the cup, same as always.

And this is why it's impossible to have a worthwhile discussion on this thread.

The other way of looking at it is that you are happy with a squad depth of 22, great won't hear any complaints from you this season about lack of squad depth as we have a squad of around 30 players capable of first-team football.

Godge

Godge wrote: »

The other way of looking at it is that you are happy with a squad depth of 22, great won't hear any complaints from you this season about lack of squad depth as we have a squad of around 30 players capable of first-team football.

If a sub appearance in the FA Cup is "capable" then good for you. If not having enough defenders to cover 2 injuries but having loads of attacking midfielders then that's just great. In defence we've gone from
Gibbs-Kos-Mert-Sagna
Monreal-Vermaelen-Sagna-Jenkinson

to

Gibbs-Kos-Mert-Debuchy
Monreal-Miquel-Chambers-Chambers


Which do you think is stronger?

tayto lover

Godge wrote: »

Rubbish. Complete rubbish, ignoring all of the transfer movement.

First team

Debuchy for Sagna - improvement
Sanchez to replace Cazorla - improvement

Back-up

Ospina to replace Fabianski - improvement
Chambers to replace Jenkinson - improvement
Campbell to replace Bendtner - improvement
Cazorla to replace Miyaichi - improvement
Coquelin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Bellerin extra body added to back-up - improvement
Martinez to replace Viviaino - improvement

Miquel to replace Vermaelen - disimprovement

9 signs of improvement to one of disimprovement and you still moan.

If we add Carvalho the list will read

Carvalho to replace Vermaelen - improvement
Miquel extra body added to back-up - improvement

11 squad improvements, I will admit some of them very minor but a transfer window that nobody could complain about. Even now with only one disimprovement, there is nothing to complain about.

No problems there and well put BUT I want to see a good DMF to complete the job and a Verm replacement. We would mount a serious challenge then I believe. Plus a far better year on the injury front. Time for a bit of luck too.