Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Marty McFly

Quazzie wrote: »

For me, with Sanchez and Walcott playing and providing pace, Giroud will be allowed stay up top more. There will be less need for him to drift back and hold up play. He'll become more of a spearhead of the attach than he has for most of last season. This was how he started last season and it's the only place for him in my opinion. Have him on the end of attacks rather than falling back into midfield with no one ahead of him, as this was where he can be most effective.

This I would be more open to, turning Giroud into a more Van Nistlerooy type forward despite his finishing at times leaving a lot to be desired he has shown at times he can make good runs into the 6 yard box and get onto low swung in crosses.

But to cite his reason for being in the team because of his link up play doesn't hold much water with me when we have other players better at it.

Marty McFly

Kirby wrote: »

Again?!?

Same injury he's just not back till September.

greendom

Kirby wrote: »

Again?!?

No, he's still recovering from the injury he suffered against Spurs. He's expected back at the beginning of September I think.

salmocab

Im sure Walcott won't be rushed back he will be given plenty of time to get fit as wide right is somewhere we have good cover with Sanchez, Ox and Gnabry. Really excited for this season, still think we will land a DM and obviously a CB when Vermalen goes. Will be disappointed to see him leave but can't blame the guy at all and hope it goes well for him, if he doesn't join manu of course.

Mickeroo

Marty McFly wrote: »

This I would be more open to, turning Giroud into a more Van Nistlerooy type forward despite his finishing at times leaving a lot to be desired he has shown at times he can make good runs into the 6 yard box and get onto low swung in crosses.

But to cite his reason for being in the team because of his link up play doesn't hold much water with me when we have other players better at it.

He doesn't do the same job as Ozil or Cazorla though. They're not exactly adept at winning the ball in the air and holding off defenders, they would rarely if ever be the furthest player forward.

.jacksparrow.

Lads with arteta looking like he will be named captain I think we can rule out a new DM.

Plus he signed flamini on a 3 year deal.

I reckon its a cb and we're done.

Marty McFly

Mickeroo wrote: »

He doesn't do the same job as Ozil or Cazorla though. They're not exactly adept at winning the ball in the air and holding off defenders, they would rarely if ever be the furthest player forward.

But what does he do once he wins the ball or holds off a player he looks to distribute the ball to someone else majority of the time.

He very rarely makes a run onto a through ball he doesn't have the pace for it.

I'd much rather a CF who is always hanging off the shoulder of the CB which is why I'd love to see Sanchez playing there would frighten defences a lot more Arsenal with Giroud spearheading the attack can be easy to defend against at times.

G1032

Great read here at this link. It's an interview with Liam Brady.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/the-kid-that-had-it-all-278965.html

Alfred Borden

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Lads with arteta looking like he will be named captain I think we can rule out a new DM.

Plus he signed flamini on a 3 year deal.

I reckon its a cb and we're done.

if thats the case, cant see us coming any higher than third

Drexel

Marty McFly wrote: »

But what does he do once he wins the ball or holds off a player he looks to distribute the ball to someone else majority of the time.

He very rarely makes a run onto a through ball he doesn't have the pace for it.

I'd much rather a CF who is always hanging off the shoulder of the CB which is why I'd love to see Sanchez playing there would frighten defences a lot more Arsenal with Giroud spearheading the attack can be easy to defend against at times.

What space will he run into when teams sit deep? We need someone to hold the ball up against teams sitting deep and giroud is by far the best we.got

Hidalgo

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Lads with arteta looking like he will be named captain I think we can rule out a new DM.

Plus he signed flamini on a 3 year deal.

I reckon its a cb and we're done.

A high octane hard as nails mofo DM is the one area Arsenal still need to strengthen imo. I think a signing there could be the difference for Arsenal pushing in the league all the way to May or slipping off the coattails of City and Chelsea eventually.

I'm not an Arsenal fan but I am looking forward to seeing a out of Sanchez, Walcott, Ox, Ozil and Carzola line up. Some incredible pace out wide and killer passes through the centre there. That line has the ability to blitz many a side imo but needs a top notch DM behind them when playing the top sides.

Hidalgo

Marty McFly wrote: »

But what does he do once he wins the ball or holds off a player he looks to distribute the ball to someone else majority of the time.

He very rarely makes a run onto a through ball he doesn't have the pace for it.

I'd much rather a CF who is always hanging off the shoulder of the CB which is why I'd love to see Sanchez playing there would frighten defences a lot more Arsenal with Giroud spearheading the attack can be easy to defend against at times.

I'd put Sanchez to cf when Walcott regains fitness. The ability of Ozil and Carzola to thread a through ball into space for Sanchez could be devastating. Any side that decides to play a defensive high line a la AVB sides could suffer.
You'd also have the option of alternating Sanchez and Walcott ingame also to drag defenders all over the place.

shano_88

G1032 wrote: »

Great read here at this link. It's an interview with Liam Brady.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/the-kid-that-had-it-all-278965.html

Fantastic article. It looks like the pursuit of young players is getting harder and harder these days.

Interesting that he said he had the option to sign Raheem Sterling but never pushed it in the end. I wonder why they never did.

greendom

El Pais claiming that United offered 19m for Vermaelen but Arsene said no. Different circumstances and lessons learnt.

Quazzie

shano_88 wrote: »

Fantastic article. It looks like the pursuit of young players is getting harder and harder these days.

Interesting that he said he had the option to sign Raheem Sterling but never pushed it in the end. I wonder why they never did.

Probably put off by the expense of having to build a creche for all his kids :pac:

G1032

shano_88 wrote: »

Fantastic article. It looks like the pursuit of young players is getting harder and harder these days.

Interesting that he said he had the option to sign Raheem Sterling but never pushed it in the end. I wonder why they never did.

Ya. I wondered that too. Was he too slight/not strong enough as a kid. Maybe something like that. I don't think he mentioned that he was any trouble or had attitude problems

G1032

greendom wrote: »

El Pais claiming that United offered 19m for Vermaelen but Arsene said no. Different circumstances and lessons learnt.

Apparently Arsenal wanted a United player in part exchange. Smalling?

flyingoutside

G1032 wrote: »

Apparently Arsenal wanted a United player in part exchange. Smalling?

Van persie? :-P

gosplan

Marty McFly wrote: »

This is the argument that always baffles me somewhat.

Don't we have Ozil and even Cazorla for that? By putting Giroud just in front of them trying to do the exact same thing but not quite as good nullifys Ozil's game to a certain extent.

Yes hopefully with Sanchez and Walcott it won't be as much an issue but it killed us last season.

On Giroud be a great option off the bench but I'm hoping to see more of Campbell and Sanchez up top.

All I'm saying is he can be effective. I don't get how there's a disagreement.

I'm not saying he's the player for us for the future, I'm not saying he should be the first name on the teamsheet and I'm not saying he should play every game.

Put simply he got a decent enough return last season playing in a system that wasn't at all suited to him.

No one is saying we don't need a bit more. Usually these conversations start when someone sticks the words 'useless' or 'rubbish' in a sentence about Giroud. This time it was either we think we need perhaps a bit more clinical finishing in the big games or we're pro-Giroud.

It's a bullsh1t argument.

He'll do better this year but obviously if we're looking for Ozil/Sanchez quality all over the pitch, then we'll eventually come to Giroud and see we need a Suarez or Ageuro there.

However he still offers something different and can be effective.

This year is huge for him IMO. He'll be properly replaced at the end of the season unless he works very well in the new system.

the untitled user

I never fully understand the criticism of Giroud. How many times last year was outside the box flick from Giroud the catalyst for our attacks to break into the box? How many times last year was did a run to the near post from Giroud end up with the ball in the back of the net? It was quite a bit!

Most of the times Giroud looked ineffective last season was when Walcott and Ramsey were out, and he had no one doing the hard running from midfield that suited his game. The end result was that in the second half of the season he ran himself ragged with no one nearby him to link up with.

This season will be different. Now Giroud has more runners to play off (Campbell, Sanchez and not forgetting Diaby's surprising turn of pace from midfield), more competition (Sanogo looks better each game, and Sanchez and Campbell could just as easily take his starting berth too), and most importantly someone to rotate with when he's looking fatigued.

I think things are falling into place for Giroud to go on and have a great season. Hmmm, what's the odds on him being our player of the season?

cson

greendom wrote: »

El Pais claiming that United offered 19m for Vermaelen but Arsene said no. Different circumstances and lessons learnt.

He'd have been sold to United if they'd given us Smalling. Would have been ideal for the home grown rules and I think Arsene knows this. It's going to be difficult to get a centre half that'll fit in now.

You'd hope we'll get someone like Carvalho in and ease him in over the first half of the season with potentially Flamini to exit in January then.

I think its clear as day Sanogo is #2 in the striking department as well. It's a bit of Hail Mary from Wenger and pretty much nails the way we're going to be playing all season (striker as a pivot for the wide men/runners from midfield). I can't remember the last young striker he successfully brought through (leaving Henry aside - he did cost £12m!). Anelka probably and you could make a bit of a case for RVP but that was a very long term transition. Bendtner maybe was somewhat successful.

Its a gamble and hopefully we've a plan B in the works for January if project Sanogo doesn't work out.

the untitled user

Speaking of Sanogo, does anyone else think that he looks like a player who is ageing in reverse?

Most young strikers are all about their agility and reaction times. They rush towards the box and try to get the shot off as quick as possible usually, relying on some level of trickery to do so (even if they aren't necessarily the quickest).

Sanogo on the other hand, looks more like a veteran striker coming towards the end of his career! Some very intelligent running punctuated by strong hold up play and an uncanny ability to keep defenders from muscling him out of it. Yet on the ball he looks like he can't lift his feet quick enough at times!

cson

Re Giroud; I think people need to get their heads around the fact that the way we're set up to play means we don't need him to be a 20+ goal a season striker. He's a player who is very good at making space for others and opening up defences with flicks for our world class players (Sanchez/Ozil/Walcott) - you should see that threesome all getting into double digits and probably breaking the 40 goal mark between them.

Look at it this way; if we'd signed Suarez for example;

Suarez (27)
Ozil (6)
Walcott (11)
Sanchez (9)

Giroud (16)
Ozil (10)
Walcott (15)
Sanchez (12)

Same amount of goals in those two examples; 53.

It's all about perspective folks. Don't be blinded by the badge on the front; its what's under the hood that counts. :pac:

cson

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Lads with arteta looking like he will be named captain I think we can rule out a new DM.

Plus he signed flamini on a 3 year deal.

I reckon its a cb and we're done.

Nope there's been too much noise about the holding midfielder position. If he can get it done, he'll get it done imo. They're definitely out there trying.

the untitled user

cson wrote: »

Re Giroud; I think people need to get their heads around the fact that the way we're set up to play means we don't need him to be a 20+ goal a season striker. He's a player who is very good at making space for others and opening up defences with flicks for our world class players (Sanchez/Ozil/Walcott) - you should see that threesome all getting into double digits and probably breaking the 40 goal mark between them.

Look at it this way; if we'd signed Suarez for example;

Suarez (27)
Ozil (6)
Walcott (11)
Sanchez (9)

Giroud (16)
Ozil (10)
Walcott (15)
Sanchez (12)

Same amount of goals in those two examples; 53.

It's all about perspective folks. Don't be blinded by the badge on the front; its what's under the hood that counts. :pac:

Fully agree. One correction though, given the evidence of previous seasons, Walcott will be our top scorer and probably the only one with a chance of breaking the 20 goal mark. And he'll probably do it all in three months followed by 6 months of nothing

Mickeroo

cson wrote: »

I think its clear as day Sanogo is #2 in the striking department as well. It's a bit of Hail Mary from Wenger and pretty much nails the way we're going to be playing all season (striker as a pivot for the wide men/runners from midfield). I can't remember the last young striker he successfully brought through (leaving Henry aside - he did cost £12m!). Anelka probably and you could make a bit of a case for RVP but that was a very long term transition. Bendtner maybe was somewhat successful.

Adebayor?

DenMan

Sky Sports reporting that Thomas Vermaelen is in Barcelona right now for his medical! Nice bit of business by Arsenal I have to say! Thank you Verminator and good luck at Barca!

cson

cson wrote: »

Re Giroud; I think people need to get their heads around the fact that the way we're set up to play means we don't need him to be a 20+ goal a season striker. He's a player who is very good at making space for others and opening up defences with flicks for our world class players (Sanchez/Ozil/Walcott) - you should see that threesome all getting into double digits and probably breaking the 40 goal mark between them.

Look at it this way; if we'd signed Suarez for example;

Suarez (27)
Ozil (6)
Walcott (11)
Sanchez (9)

Giroud (16)
Ozil (10)
Walcott (15)
Sanchez (12)

Same amount of goals in those two examples; 53.

It's all about perspective folks. Don't be blinded by the badge on the front; its what's under the hood that counts. :pac:

Did you literally just make up some numbers there to suit a point?

EuropeanSon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did you literally just make up some numbers there to suit a point?

Obviously. And they aren't implausible at all.

Did you literally just ask that question already knowing the answer and with nothing further to add?

So that's the level of debate and evidence we're going with? Grand job, just wanted to be clear.

the untitled user

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you literally just make up some numbers there to suit a point?

People usually do when giving hypothetical examples. Let's given an example with real numbers:

United Top Scorers 2012/2013 (league goals).
RVP - 26, Rooney - 12, Hernandez - 10, Kagawa - 6, Evra - 4 = Total 58.

Arsenal Top Scoers 2012/2013 (league goals).
Walcott - 14, Cazorla - 12, Giroud - 11, Podolski - 11, Arteta - 6 = Total 54.

Pepe LeFrits

cson wrote: »

Re Giroud; I think people need to get their heads around the fact that the way we're set up to play means we don't need him to be a 20+ goal a season striker. He's a player who is very good at making space for others and opening up defences with flicks for our world class players (Sanchez/Ozil/Walcott) - you should see that threesome all getting into double digits and probably breaking the 40 goal mark between them.

That's a roundabout way of saying that we can get by without having a world class striker up front if we have enough world class players in other areas. Probably true but it's not really a great defence of him. Giroud is hardly the only striker in world football who can make space for others and our other players are more than capable of performing with other CFs. If we had Suarez instead of Grioud we'd score substantially more goals as a team; anyone saying otherwise has lost perspective.

Giroud's a pretty good striker but that's it. Himself and Arteta/Flamini are the most obvious areas for improvement in the team and if he gets criticised it's largely for that reason.

NinjaTruncs

I think you are neglecting the fact that a top striker could add to the goals others are getting. Look at pool last year Suarez scoring all his goals didn't affect other players in the team scoring. He actually help them score more, he created almost as many as he scored.

extra gravy

The bottom line for me with Giroud is that I want to see him on the bench when we go to United, Chelsea, City, Pool. If we get chances in those games, then I don't want him to be one of the players they fall to. Sanchez up front in the big games is what I'm hoping Wenger will do.

the untitled user

extra gravy wrote: »

The bottom line for me with Giroud is that I want to see him on the bench when we go to United, Chelsea, City, Pool. If we get chances in those games, then I don't want him to be one of the players they fall to. Sanchez up front in the big games is what I'm hoping Wenger will do.

This is nonsense. It utterly depends on how we approach those games.

If we have enough pace to get in behind the full backs on the wings (and we should with both Walcott and Sanchez) then Giroud's runs to the near posts are exactly what we want. There's no one in the PL better from scoring from those positions than he is.

If the game is congested in the middle of the park, then Giroud dropping deep to pull out the opposition CB and flick onto an onrunning midfielder is exactly what we want (think back to Wilshere's goal against Norwich, Sanchez couldn't do that because he'd have been facing the goal).

But if we're depending for our lives and trying to hit on the break, then you'll want all the pace you can get so stick Sanchez up top with Walcott not to far from him and lump it long to them!

Ulitimately it's folly to rule any player out, because they are all capable of contriibuting and all have important roles to play within the squad! Even the mazy runs of a fit Diaby could be exactly what we need to break the deadlock in some of those routine games we struggle with where we are playing against 10 defenders!

emergingstar

Whenever things got quiet around here two endless debates got us through the summer

Giroud is shît

Remy is shît

Then rinse and repeat

HazDanz

emergingstar wrote: »

Whenever things got quiet around here two endless debates got us through the summer

Giroud is shît

Remy is shît

Then rinse and repeat

Kalou is still an option. Never forget.

Mickeroo

Loic Kalouffran - the ultimate Arsenal transfer rumour.

emergingstar

I think we need to sign a midfielder but I also think whoever we sign won't be starting come the big games down the stretch

Wilshere/Ramsey will be our midfield two behind ozil

Obviously anyone who expresses doubts as to whether or not we could do better than have a striker with a 0.43 goals per game ratio in his career while at top-flight clubs is saying he's completely ****e and should be released from their contract.

shano_88

Youve been beating the same drum for along time now Button.

We get it, you like complaining and arguing. Have you ever been positive going into a season? ever?

bad2dabone

Woo hoo just. Back from a month in the slammer, alexis sanchez lads!

Anyhow, button usually has a point, I think his posting style winds some lads up but he's not far wrong, its poor going into the season with two senior centre halves. We need to sort that out.

shano_88

shano_88 wrote: »

Youve been beating the same drum for along time now Button.

We get it, you like complaining and arguing. Have you ever been positive going into a season? ever?

What drum is that?

Yeah for a couple of years after last time we won the league. We had some lad called Terry Henry or something, 3rd highest PL scorer of all time with the highest goals per game ratio of the top 10. I vaguely remember him.

.jacksparrow.

emergingstar wrote: »

I think we need to sign a midfielder but I also think whoever we sign won't be starting come the big games down the stretch

Wilshere/Ramsey will be our midfield two behind ozil

Well prepare for some more ass whooping.

emergingstar

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Well prepare for some more ass whooping.

We shall see

Marty McFly

the untitled user wrote: »

I never fully understand the criticism of Giroud. How many times last year was outside the box flick from Giroud the catalyst for our attacks to break into the box? How many times last year was did a run to the near post from Giroud end up with the ball in the back of the net? It was quite a bit!

Most of the times Giroud looked ineffective last season was when Walcott and Ramsey were out, and he had no one doing the hard running from midfield that suited his game. The end result was that in the second half of the season he ran himself ragged with no one nearby him to link up with.

This season will be different. Now Giroud has more runners to play off (Campbell, Sanchez and not forgetting Diaby's surprising turn of pace from midfield), more competition (Sanogo looks better each game, and Sanchez and Campbell could just as easily take his starting berth too), and most importantly someone to rotate with when he's looking fatigued.

I think things are falling into place for Giroud to go on and have a great season. Hmmm, what's the odds on him being our player of the season?

One could also say how many times last season did Giroud try flicks that didn't work? How many times were people getting frustrated time after time when flicks didn't work out? How many times were through balls tried but Giroud didn't have the pace to latch onto them? How many vital chances in big games did he miss in big games were chances are limited? Yes he did score some nice goals yes he is a decent player but is he good enough to be starting every game no like Podolski delighted to have him in the squad but should not be starting many games.

I get that but I would rather a CF who doesn't need players to link up with a player who can makes the runs himself and score the goals himself is what I want and let Ozil provide the killer balls exactly what we bought him for.

For me I love having Giroud in the squad can provide an alternative option when needed but ideally I want him on the bench when we have a fully fit squad with Sanchez playing CF is what I'd like to see. A front three of consisting of Ox, Walcott, Sanchez, Campbell or Gnabry in different variations excites me and is full of pace and skill.

On Giroud being our player of the season absolutely zilch .

Marty McFly

Verm gone to Barcelona confirmed by Arsenal

gosplan

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously anyone who expresses doubts as to whether or not we could do better than have a striker with a 0.43 goals per game ratio in his career while at top-flight clubs is saying he's completely ****e and should be released from their contract.

All people are saying is that it's not that simple.

Drogba is 0.41, Benzema is 0.44

Neither good enough?

We just don't want Giroud as our principal goal threat which is what he was last year.

Edited to include: I should also say that I'm not out for any animosity despite rows we may have had.

Generally I think that if we're going to be filling the squad with Ozil and Sanchez level type players, then sooner or later the axe will fall on Giroud.

But I think he's done enough to earn a chance in a team that will play to his strengths rather than expose his weaknesses.

You could have stuck Drogba up top for us last year and with no crosses coming in and no-one making runs near him, he would have looked very ordinary.

Drexel

Marty McFly wrote: »

Verm gone to Barcelona confirmed by Arsenal

Delighted he's gone there instead of United.

Alfred Borden

If Kos or Chambers were to get injured tomorrow, we would be in big trouble. Hopefully we can get a body in before next Saturday. Reid for me.