Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Notes in OP 24/08

Paj

dunno how impressed with him I'd be

much rather Carvalho

greendom

Paj wrote: »

dunno how impressed with him I'd be

much rather Carvalho

I think Gustavo got sent off at least once if not twice, or was it an own goal, when he started with Wolfsburg last season.

tayto lover

Wasn't very impressed with Gustavo in the World Cup.
Carvalho is also only 22 and looks like he has a bright future.
We shouldn't let the price effect our judgement in this.

Hyzepher

regardless of how you see our start to the season, and it's jumpy at best, you have to feel that the attitude of the players is a lot better than a few seasons ago. Both are games could have been a lot worse - ManU type of bad - but the team showed character and that's a good thing.

The issues of how we get ourselves into these positions still needs to be addressed but I think it has more to do with the timing of the games rather than some sort of inability.

The gap last year was 7 - with all the teams above us taking a lot of points off us head to head. Turn one or two of those games around and the 7 points is closed. The result against Everton is a start, a good start despite the manner of the performance. We'll play better than that this season and lose and worse and win.

The season is about momentum and I'd say the players are feeling up after the Everton game, exactly what we need for Wednesday - a game that will be tricky at best.

We all support Arsenal. We all wish we could win every game in style. We want to be the team that plays the best football in the league. but for now we need to be happy with a point at Everton, have confidence in the players and their ability to improve. We can hope for new signings this week as we all enjoy the arrival of better players but our squad is no bargain bin team. We have the ability and club to compete and I'm confident that the manager and team are doing all that's necessary to succeed in that.

Ken Shamrock

Podolski to Wolfsburg? I thought he was linked with Juve? Gustavo isn't my cup of tea, i'd much prefer Carvalho or Khedira.

Ken Shamrock

Hyzepher wrote: »

regardless of how you see our start to the season, and it's jumpy at best, you have to feel that the attitude of the players is a lot better than a few seasons ago. Both are games could have been a lot worse - ManU type of bad - but the team showed character and that's a good thing.

The issues of how we get ourselves into these positions still needs to be addressed but I think it has more to do with the timing of the games rather than some sort of inability.

The gap last year was 7 - with all the teams above us taking a lot of points off us head to head. Turn one or two of those games around and the 7 points is closed. The result against Everton is a start, a good start despite the manner of the performance. We'll play better than that this season and lose and worse and win.

The season is about momentum and I'd say the players are feeling up after the Everton game, exactly what we need for Wednesday - a game that will be tricky at best.

We all support Arsenal. We all wish we could win every game in style. We want to be the team that plays the best football in the league. but for now we need to be happy with a point at Everton, have confidence in the players and their ability to improve. We can hope for new signings this week as we all enjoy the arrival of better players but our squad is no bargain bin team. We have the ability and club to compete and I'm confident that the manager and team are doing all that's necessary to succeed in that.

Excellent post. Although maybe i'm the only one who's not so confident that the manager is doing enough

kevinroche3333

Gustavo seems to be very similar to Gilberto Silva he is very mobile and busy on the pitch and very aware defensively and simple in possession.
At times for Brazil in the World Cup he played very deep, almost a 3rd CB for them and i think he is defensively very good.

Paj

but he has a ridiculous tache.

Sacksian

Chelsea were actually quite horrible in the first half against Burnley.

I wouldn't worry too much about the league performances at this point in time. It's undeniable that Arsenal's pre-season has been affected by the World Cup. Generally, you want to blood players in to a settled team but Arsenal don't have a settled defence OR midfield yet - the defence has 3 non-regulars from last season (Chambers, Debuchy and Monreal) and, on Saturday, you could say that midfield was very different to the usual lineup from last season (along with Ozil's first game back). Add in Alexis up front and that's actually quite a bit of churn.

Debuchy - Chambers - Per - Monreal - Flamini - Ramsey - Wilshere - Ox - Ozil - Alexis
vs
Sagna - Per - Kos - Gibbs - Arteta - Ramsey - (Rosicky or Ox or Wilshere) - Ozil - Cazorla - Giroud

The result is that the Arsenal style, the type of rotation and interplay based on understanding that needs confidence, has not been good. Wilshire (who's obviously missing a bit of sharpness and confidence) and Ramsey occupying the same space and then essentially missing a midfielder who could be offering something else. Both Ox and Wilshire are possibly trying too hard. Throw in Alexis and Campbell into the mix and it gets a bit loose.

The real worry is getting their **** together for Wednesday. I think Wednesday has to be about just getting the job done in midfield, sticking with the tried and trusted from the last couple of years and getting through. A reasonably settled Arsenal should have far too much for Besiktas.

I presume Mertesacker and Kos will start Wednesday. Maybe Rosicky should get the nod too. It may well be Rosicky, Ozil and Cazorla behind Giroud just to get that job done.

tayto lover

As regards tactics I can't understand how Wenger and Bould allowed Everton to terrorise us on our left side yet again. It showed a lack of tactical nous again.

I hope they plan better for the games against City, Pool and Chelsea or we're in serious trouble. I expected that problem to have been solved.

"It will be alright on the day" does not work.

Skylinehead

Gustavo is a very good player, he was good for Brazil until their last two games (who was good for them then?). Very tenacious tackler, good positioning, and he's pretty handy on the ball. Would be very happy if we were to get either him or Carvalho. Plus he looks like a pirate!

AnCapaillMor

Paj wrote: »

but he has a ridiculous tache.

This!!!!!

As for his sendings off, i always thought we were at our best when we got players sent off on a regular base, Vieira was top of his game when he was being sent off 2-3 times a season.

hsbc

Re the Carvalho rumours - don't know much about him but he seems to be a decent player with a big future so it'd be great if we got him. Also sounds like Khedira is staying with RM for this season at least.

But these Portuguese clubs must be worth a fortune with the big transfer fees they get for players that are relatively unknown to the majority of EPL followers. Maybe we should try get some of their scouts on board with Arsenal? They seem pretty decent at picking up talent at an early age. They could work well with the scouts that the club already have as they are pretty good at spotting talent themselves(Henry, Vieira, Cesc, Ramsey, Ox, etc.).

Hyzepher

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Excellent post. Although maybe i'm the only one who's not so confident that the manager is doing enough

Running or managing a club is a complex thing. You are restricted by budget and you have to have faith in the players you buy and pick for each game.

We have all seen the bad decisions and demise of clubs who take rash decisions about players or managers and end up hurting themselves in the end.

We need to trust that Arsenal and AW are doing what's right for the club.

If you take ManU as an example. All I hear is that they are in transition and that the club/results are inevitable for a club that is building.

Look what we have done over the last 10 years. Transition has been our middle name and yet we haven't fallen anywhere close to 7th. We dont have 200m to spend when things get bad. We need to have faith in AW and the players as simply trying to throw money at things can only be bad.

Our finances are better these days but we still can't take changes on big money signings without making sure they are right for us

.jacksparrow.

tayto lover wrote: »

As regards tactics I can't understand how Wenger and Bould allowed Everton to terrorise us on our left side yet again. It showed a lack of tactical nous again.

I hope they plan better for the games against City, Pool and Chelsea or we're in serious trouble. I expected that problem to have been solved.

"It will be alright on the day" does not work.

Exactly.

Ozil on the wing is a big no for me.

He is terrible at defending at getting back.

Just play him in his natural position and it will be best for everyone including himself.

Ken Shamrock

Hyzepher wrote: »

Running or managing a club is a complex thing. You are restricted by budget and you have to have faith in the players you buy and pick for each game.

We have all seen the bad decisions and demise of clubs who take rash decisions about players or managers and end up hurting themselves in the end.

We need to trust that Arsenal and AW are doing what's right for the club.

If you take ManU as an example. All I hear is that they are in transition and that the club/results are inevitable for a club that is building.

Look what we have done over the last 10 years. Transition has been our middle name and yet we haven't fallen anywhere close to 7th. We dont have 200m to spend when things get bad. We need to have faith in AW and the players as simply trying to throw money at things can only be bad.

Our finances are better these days but we still can't take changes on big money signings without making sure they are right for us

I completely agree, and i love Arsene and everything that he's done for the club, and for the 10 year period of 96-06 i would go as far as saying i thought he was a better manager than Ferguson.

Now i know the stats will say otherwise, but to do what Wenger did with the supplies he had was just an incredible feet. United can brag about league title numbers but no other club has won the prem league undefeated and i don't think any club will again.

My problem is the same as everyone else's, the last 7-8 years. I feel Wenger has lost it, i don't think he know's whats best anymore. I can understand people getting behind him and not losing faith, but i'm sceptical, and i know it's an extremely tough job and none of us would be able to do it but when you see blatant mistakes and bad decisions and compare them with top managers it makes you wonder.

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

I completely agree, and i love Arsene and everything that he's done for the club, and for the 10 year period of 96-06 i would go as far as saying i thought he was a better manager than Ferguson.

Now i know the stats will say otherwise, but to do what Wenger did with the supplies he had was just an incredible feet. United can brag about league title numbers but no other club has won the prem league undefeated and i don't think any club will again.

My problem is the same as everyone else's, the last 7-8 years. I feel Wenger has lost it, i don't think he know's whats best anymore. I can understand people getting behind him and not losing faith, but i'm sceptical, and i know it's an extremely tough job and none of us would be able to do it but when you see blatant mistakes and bad decisions and compare them with top managers it makes you wonder.

7 - 8 years ? You mean when the stadium was being built and paid for and when net spend had to be positive to balance the books ? To have stuck with the club and achieving top 4 each season during that period Is even more impressive than his earlier days in my eyes.

Now those constraints are being lifted I am expectoing much more, although I'm realistic enough to see that we will never be able to match the spending if City or Chelsea unless FFP really forces them to change tack.

Ken Shamrock

greendom wrote: »

7 - 8 years ? You mean when the stadium was being built and paid for and when net spend had to be positive to balance the books ? To have stuck with the club and achieving top 4 each season during that period Is even more impressive than his earlier days in my eyes.

Now those constraints are being lifted I am expectoing much more, although I'm realistic enough to see that we will never be able to match the spending if City or Chelsea unless FFP really forces them to change tack.

Here we go again. The stadium was being built yay, but we were winning nothing, we were so close yet so far year after year and it was frustrating and it was upsetting and it made me lose hope. Is that ok? To go from the best team in England to a top 4 side because of a stadium was not fun for me.

One of the things i love about Wenger is what he can do with little resources, but there was no need to sell all of our best players year after year from Henry to RVP was that not frustrating for you? Did that not piss you off?

Soups123

Arsene has had to deal with the financial restriction and to be honest even now thats coming off we will still never be able to compete with Chelsea or City financially if they continue down the sugar daddy route and fans will have to except that. You can't compete all the time with clubs that have limitless funds, you have to pick and choose your battles and hope seasons on success can be picked off.

My only criticism and concern with Arsene is that the game nowadays is highly tactical and we have the same approach week in week out.

I think we struggle against the big teams because of this, teams know weeks in advance almost who will play, how we will play and plan to defeat that and the proof of the pudding is in the eating ( we cant win these games for love nor money).

I found it hard to believe that as simple as Tayto said above, last season Everton targeted us down the left with success and did the exact same this week and we had no change in plan to deal with it

greendom

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Here we go again. The stadium was being built yay, but we were winning nothing, we were so close yet so far year after year and it was frustrating and it was upsetting and it made me lose hope. Is that ok? To go from the best team in England to a top 4 side because of a stadium was not fun for me.

One of the things i love about Wenger is what he can do with little resources, but there was no need to sell all of our best players year after year from Henry to RVP was that not frustrating for you? Did that not piss you off?

Of course it was/did - especially when City and Chelsea had money to burn, but that was the reality of the situation.

Soups123

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Here we go again. The stadium was being built yay, but we were winning nothing, we were so close yet so far year after year and it was frustrating and it was upsetting and it made me lose hope. Is that ok? To go from the best team in England to a top 4 side because of a stadium was not fun for me.

One of the things i love about Wenger is what he can do with little resources, but there was no need to sell all of our best players year after year from Henry to RVP was that not frustrating for you? Did that not piss you off?

I dont think you have grasped yet how big a deal this is/was?

Ken Shamrock

Soups123 wrote: »

I dont think you have grasped yet how big a deal this is/was?

Was it worth the 7-8 years of agony? Not for me. Agree with your tactical criticism of Wenger tho that was more what i was getting at saying i don't think he's doing enough.

HazDanz

Pre Stadium Wenger era was a remarkable period in the clubs history.

Stadium Wenger era is just as impressive considering the restraints the club imposed on itself and the introduction of billionare owned premier league clubs to inflate the market for players.

This is a new era now, we can compete again so hopefully Wenger can kick on now and mould a team which he feels will win titles.

emergingstar

tayto lover wrote: »

As regards tactics I can't understand how Wenger and Bould allowed Everton to terrorise us on our left side yet again. It showed a lack of tactical nous again.

I hope they plan better for the games against City, Pool and Chelsea or we're in serious trouble. I expected that problem to have been solved.

"It will be alright on the day" does not work.

Couldn't believer he played ozil out on the wing up against Coleman was crazy

If we stick to the 4-1-4-1 formation we will see more and more of ozil on the wing

And I don't like it

Mickeroo

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Was it worth the 7-8 years of agony? Not for me. Agree with your tactical criticism of Wenger tho that was more what i was getting at saying i don't think he's doing enough.

If it pays dividends in the next few seasons then it very much was worth it. Also if you think that was agony imagine how it most be for the fans of (at least) 16 teams that finished below us every season, some of which had more financial fire power then we did.

I do think Wenger needs to sort out his tactics presently though, no denying the team aren't clicking at the moment.

kevinroche3333

We built a top class 60000 seat stadium in one of the most expensive cities in Europe in a recession!
Sold some of our best players to balance the books and never missed out on the group stages of the Champions League, not even once!
We even got Senderos etc to keep a string of clean sheets and get to the final!!
Fabregas Viera Henry Nasri Van Persie all sold!
Our record signing before last summer was approx 15million quid! F**k it United Chelsea and City all signed relative dummies for more than 15million! Even Utds keeper cost more!
Now our expectations are rightly higher and we are improving maybe at a slower pace than we would like, but the reality is Chelsea could still buy a centre half last Christmas for 12million and send him back on loan, Liverpool buy a centre forward for 10million this summer and send him back for a year, City have 4 strikers all cost over 15m and decide they need a new centre half ok 32million no problem! Spurs have a 25m striker on the bench!
We should be proud of our manager and his efforts, and support the hell out of him as we strive to get back to the very top which we are not far from doing, but the last few pieces of the jigsaw will be very tough in what is surely the most competitive period at the top of the league with very few confidently predicting the top 4 in the table for example.

HazDanz

emergingstar wrote: »

Couldn't believer he played ozil out on the wing up against Coleman was crazy

If we stick to the 4-1-4-1 formation we will see more and more of ozil on the wing

And I don't like it

It wasn't ideal. I felt Ozil played well on the wing attacking wise however. Played in Wilshere with a great ball first half, was also through on goal with a run in the first half only for Chamberlain not to look up to play him through.

Second half he was more liberal where he played - he drifted in centrally a few times. He was getting frustrated a bit too with Monreal from what i could see with one twos.

I liked how himself and Sanchez were actively trying to link together in the game too, even though at the minute it's not quite working.

Ken Shamrock

Mickeroo wrote: »

If it pays dividends in the next few seasons then it very much was worth it. Also if you think that was agony imagine how it most be for the fans of (at least) 16 teams that finished below us every season, some of which had more financial fire power then we did.

I do think Wenger needs to sort out his tactics presently though, no denying the team aren't clicking at the moment.

All 16 of them teams have no idea what it's like to win titles, they have no expectations, that's the difference.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Was it worth the 7-8 years of agony? Not for me. Agree with your tactical criticism of Wenger tho that was more what i was getting at saying i don't think he's doing enough.

Can you honestly not see the benefit of moving to the new stadium? And agony, really?

Ken Shamrock

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Can you honestly not see the benefit of moving to the new stadium? And agony, really?

It's hard to see it just yet. Yes agony, really, that ok?

wonga77

I think what annoys people the most is the smokescreen that surrounded alot of the departures. We never heard the real truth behind some of them, we were led to believe that most of them were for money whereas I believe some of them genuinely felt they had to leave to win something. A players career is a short time, most dont give a fiddlers f uck about a new stadium.
What frustrates me the most over the last 10 years is how many times we were oh so close to winning something but lacked that final bit of quality to get us over the line.
Im very proud of where the club are now and what Wenger has achieved but theres no doubt that 10 years is a long time to suffer and I can easily see how lots of fans were/are upset

Soups123

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Was it worth the 7-8 years of agony? Not for me. Agree with your tactical criticism of Wenger tho that was more what i was getting at saying i don't think he's doing enough.

100% there is noway we would compete long term working under the contrainst of highbury, it was too limited

Alfred Borden

I was ok with the last 8 years, not happy but understood. what will annoy me is if them 8 years were a waste. This is our time to push on now and get back to where we belong, we have a week left, lets hope we can get the right players. Although i disagree a good bit with Wenger, I trust him and never wanted someone to succeed more than him.

Mickeroo

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

All 16 of them teams have no idea what it's like to win titles, they have no expectations, that's the difference.

Chelsea, Liverpool and United have all finished below us in the last 5 years at one point or another (fair enough Chelsea won the CL that year).

Alfred Borden

Telegraph saying giroud could be out for several weeks and we may go in for a striker. If he is badly injured, we have no choice. some thought we needed one anyways now we badly need one.

Ken Shamrock

Mickeroo wrote: »

Chelsea, Liverpool and United have all finished below us in the last 5 years at one point or another (fair enough Chelsea won the CL that year).

Liverpool have never won the prem league and chelase and united have come short quite a bit but how does that affect me? I'm not aloud be annoyed about finishing 4th because other teams finish lower?

Mickeroo

Raf32 wrote: »

Telegraph saying giroud could be out for several weeks and we may go in for a striker. If he is badly injured, we have no choice. some thought we needed one anyways now we badly need one.

That's bad news, my heart say go all out for Cavani, my head says an 8m bid for Remy or signing Eto'o will be the reality.

Soups123

wonga77 wrote: »

I think what annoys people the most is the smokescreen that surrounded alot of the departures. We never heard the real truth behind some of them, we were led to believe that most of them were for money whereas I believe some of them genuinely felt they had to leave to win something. A players career is a short time, most dont give a fiddlers f uck about a new stadium.
What frustrates me the most over the last 10 years is how many times we were oh so close to winning something but lacked that final bit of quality to get us over the line.
Im very proud of where the club are now and what Wenger has achieved but theres no doubt that 10 years is a long time to suffer and I can easily see how lots of fans were/are upset

There has to be a smoke screen, the club couldnt come out and say we need to raise x amount to balance the books this year, we needed to be able to negotiate as best we can. A lot of the players who left were right to do so if that what they wanted to do, the rebuiild would take as long as some of there careers would last.

10 years is long, it has been hard but we are here now and when you see players like Ozil/Sanchez being signed then you begin to move on, if it has allowed the club to compete with the best into the future then great.

Clubs like City and Chelsea have somewhat uncertain futures if the guys funding them lose interest or whatever, have we ever seen a second sugar daddy type person come into replace one? Possible not because for these type of owners the ego needs to be 'here look what I have built'

Time will tell though

HazDanz

Mickeroo wrote: »

Chelsea, Liverpool and United have all finished below us in the last 5 years at one point or another (fair enough Chelsea won the CL that year).

Yeah they won the CL but most importantly Mickeroo that year, it stopped Spurs getting into the Champions league even though they deserved to be there.

Actually felt sorry for them that time.

Alfred Borden

Mickeroo wrote: »

That's bad news, my heart say go all out for Cavani, my head says an 8m bid for Remy or signing Eto'o will be the reality.

if we cant get a top notch, we need some sort of striking depth. desperate times now.

Mickeroo

Bob.Carcass wrote: »

Liverpool have never won the prem league and chelase and united have come short quite a bit but how does that affect me? I'm not aloud be annoyed about finishing 4th because other teams finish lower?

You're allowed to feel what you like just like I'm allowed to disagree with you, I also want to the team to win the league btw and I hate coming 4th almost every year but I acknowledge it was a miracle we didn't drop out of the top 4 at any point in the last decade too.

You were the one who said expectations were different for fans of teams that have finished below us, I'm merely pointing out that is not the case. I don't think Liverpool fans have much different expectations to us when it comes to the PL just because they haven't won it yet.

Ken Shamrock

Mickeroo wrote: »

You're allowed to feel what you like just like I'm allowed to disagree with you, I also want to the team to win the league btw and I hate coming 4th almost every year but I acknowledge it was a miracle we didn't drop out of the top 4 at any point in the last decade too.

You were the one who said expectations were different for fans of teams that have finished below us, I'm merely pointing out that is not the case. I don't think Liverpool fans have much different expectations to us when it comes to the PL just because they haven't won it yet.

You're allowed to disagree with my feelings? All i said was it pissed me off coming up short every year so there was really no need to begin an argument in the first place?

No more than 3-4 teams realistically expect to win the league each year, we have always been one of them (or rather i have thought) yet we fall short every year, surely i can say that much?

Alfred Borden

One thing thats annoys me is how can Wenger say we are grand upfront and now it looks giroud is out he is in for a striker according to reports. what would happen if giroud hadnt got injured until after the window closed. Why leave us short?

greendom

Raf32 wrote: »

One thing thats annoys me is how can Wenger say we are grand upfront and now it looks giroud is out he is in for a striker according to reports. what would happen if giroud hadnt got injured until after the window closed. Why leave us short?

It does seem sometimes that there's a lot of gambling going on with squad depth

Ed Winchester

Bob, its not a witchunt against you dude. Nobody has said, at any stage, that you can't say what you want. But, people don't have to agree with you. Thats all.

tayto lover

emergingstar wrote: »

Couldn't believer he played ozil out on the wing up against Coleman was crazy

If we stick to the 4-1-4-1 formation we will see more and more of ozil on the wing

And I don't like it

It wasn't just Coleman though.
Lukaku drifted out to the left wing time and time again like he did last season in the corresponding fixture and tore us a new one for their 2nd goal. (I know he fouled Mert and Chambers was reckless in tackling him. Plus the scorer was offside.)
I was expecting this to happen prior to the match but thought Wenger and Bould would also be expecting it and would have nullified the effect. Alas I was wrong. It does show that we need a good left-sided midfielder too. Either that or we play these top teams with two DM's one to stay close to the left side as Kallestrom did in one particular game last season and it was successful (can't remember who it was against).

greendom

Maybe Podolski won't be off now Giroud is out for a while. Still need another striker though.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Maybe Podolski won't be off now Giroud is out for a while. Still need another striker though.

What??
What happened to Giroud?

gandalf

I do believe we are in for at least for two other players but we will see no movement until after Wednesday night.

If that goes badly we could be bunched though!

Mickeroo

tayto lover wrote: »

What??
What happened to Giroud?

Wenger mentioned a strained ankle after the match and that it didn't look good.