Tekken 7 Discussion Thread

Robert ninja

^ http://archive.is/V02Gv

, Bandai Namco has not yet revealed a release date for PlayStation 4, although the company has confirmed it will be exclusive to the console. Tekken 7 has not yet been confirmed for release outside of Japan.

Game journos :rolleyes:

UberPrinny_Baal

Cross posting because I thought this was interesting: Juicebox on comparing the King of Fighters games to other fighting games

He thinks it's the closest thing to a 2D Tekken

Macal

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Cross posting because I thought this was interesting: Juicebox on comparing the King of Fighters games to other fighting games

He thinks it's the closest thing to a 2D Tekken

I would agree with that statement. However I don't think the idea that learning the system and you'll learn the game is as applicable to Tekken as it would be in KOF. Certainly, players like Knee and Help Me are capable of playing almost the entire cast at a high level through this learning process.

However, there are still more character specific variables, like learning how to deal with strings that can be option-selected like Baek, Yoshimitsu, Alisa etc. Some characters are much match-up based than the system-based in learning how to defeat them, the most obvious example being Eddy and Christie.

Marlon_s_1

New to Dublin here and even newer to this site... apologies if theres another thread started for this.

Does Dublin have fighting arcades for gamers esp Tekken play together? If not, where do you guys play?

chopperbyrne

Welcome to the community Marlon.

Arcades are a no go these days.

We meet for casual sessions on Wednesdays and Saturdays in the Xtreme Internet and Gaming Centre on Lower Liffey Street.

Most Tekken players are in hibernation until T7 is released, but if you keep an eye out for threads for casuals, you can ask if any Tekken players will show up.

This Saturday there is a tournament for SFV, MKX and Smash in the Academy Plaza Hotel. Come along and you'll meet most of the Dublin community.

Marlon_s_1

Yeah that sounds great! Will def be there. 😊

Macal

FINALLY. Coming out in Early 2017.

Robert ninja

Macal wrote: »

FINALLY. Coming out in Early 2017.

PS4/XBO and... STEAM! I'm happy as a fecking clown right now.




It only says Steam, though. I guess that means a DRM free version is not happening. But I also wonder if it's going to be windows only or if it'll have mac & linux support. Would certainly help out LAN parties, events and tournaments.

Speaking of LAN... I wonder if they'll still have the LAN feature of the arcades in the releases so people can make arcade-styled setups at gatherings with either consoles, laptops or small form factor computers. Would be sick.

That 2017 date is f*cking rough, though.

chopperbyrne

Did it mention anything about cross-platform play?

Doctor DooM

Robert ninja wrote: »

PS4/XBO and... STEAM! I'm happy as a fecking clown right now.






Speaking of LAN... I wonder if they'll still have the LAN feature of the arcades in the releases so people can make arcade-styled setups at gatherings with either consoles, laptops or small form factor computers. Would be sick.

HDMI splitter and two monitors. Congrats, you're done

chopperbyrne

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Powered HDMI splitter and two monitors. Congrats, you're done

FYP

Robert ninja

Doctor DooM wrote: »

HDMI splitter and two monitors. Congrats, you're done

Minus the new feature of being on whatever side of the screen you want And also, limited to one system rather than a real network of systems connected up... as is implied with a LAN. Arcade style, not console style :P

Doctor DooM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Minus the new feature of being on whatever side of the screen you want And also, limited to one system rather than a real network of systems connected up... as is implied with a LAN. Arcade style, not console style :P

How could I put it gently... if you're that concerned about what side of the screen you're on at a tournament, I don't think it's going to be a problem for very long

Also, I don't see any TO tolerating using up half their resources just because some guy wants to play on the right!

Robert ninja

Doctor DooM wrote: »

How could I put it gently... if you're that concerned about what side of the screen you're on at a tournament, I don't think it's going to be a problem for very long

Also, I don't see any TO tolerating using up half their resources just because some guy wants to play on the right!

I'm not concerned, Namco seemed to be, though. I just don't think they should waste software they've already made to handle it. It was one of the features they were proud of. The game's already made to be played via LAN/WAN and nothing else. Would be crazy not to have that in for the home platforms for PC or console. (plenty of console games with LAN play).

Why would resources be a problem? In terms of power... you have two systems. Each one rendering the game independently (yay LAN). For the actual LAN bandwidth that's independent of an ISP so not much cost there.

For big tournaments the electricity cost alone is enough to fund food for a small south African village for a year. A little LAN setup is pocket change and technically more efficient if it's going to support many simultaneous matches happening at once (there's a reason people use LAN ). They usually have tons of computers, consoles, high-end displays, projectors, speakers etc littered throughout them anyway. Think you're overestimating the cost that a router hub, some ethernet cables and some nerd to design & hook it all up, compared to what is usually spent.

For smaller, for-fun tournaments it's also handy since 2 laptops can just pair up. Or you can stick to having one console and sit shoulder to shoulder, no big deal. Options are a good thing

Azza

Doubt LAN support will be added to the PC version for fear of piracy. Ever since Hamachi and its like appeared LAN support has pretty much ceased to be included in most PC games.

Robert ninja

Pretty sure there's no huge market share of people who want Tekken for 1v1 purely online with specific person (with bad VLAN latency) and no online matchmaking w/ ranking etc. It'd be beyond stupid to remove a core arcade feature and multiplayer infrastructure that would benefit tournaments and get-togethers... only to possibly (and probably not even) disway a small number of people who aren't interested enough in tekken from pirating it. As usual, strict DRM practices like that would only harm the actual paying customers.

Doctor DooM

Robert ninja wrote: »

Why would resources be a problem? In terms of power... you have two systems. Each one rendering the game independently (yay LAN). For the actual LAN bandwidth that's independent of an ISP so not much cost there.

Two consoles = 1 game being played as opposed to 2 consoles = 2 games being played.

Resources in terms of wasted consoles, wasted time etc. You'd effectively be doubling the length of the tournament in a game that already takes forever to run.

It'd be an absolute, utter waste at a tournament. As someone who's involved in running quite a few I'd straight up refuse to implement it if I could.

chopperbyrne

Yeah LAN play for consoles is pointless for fighting games.

Robert ninja

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Two consoles = 1 game being played as opposed to 2 consoles = 2 games being played.

Resources in terms of wasted consoles, wasted time etc. You'd effectively be doubling the length of the tournament in a game that already takes forever to run.

It'd be an absolute, utter waste at a tournament. As someone who's involved in running quite a few I'd straight up refuse to implement it if I could.

But TO are alway happy to get arcade cabinets when they can. Those things are huge, heavy and expensive. And yes it's two machines... which you can do with two consoles too. Each player on an opposite side of a desk. It's not rocket science and for the bigger tournaments barely an issue. It's actually more ergonomic. Meh. I don't see why options are a bad thing for Tekken or why everyone's so against it. I'm not asking for anything they haven't already made and implemented into T7 so far. Currently T7 has no local play, it's all LAN/WAN.

And again... it's not stopping anyone from sitting shoulder to shoulder on one system. hell, that's how I expect to play it locally too.

Doctor DooM

Robert ninja wrote: »

But TO are alway happy to get arcade cabinets when they can. Those things are huge, heavy and expensive. And yes it's two machines... which you can do with two consoles too. Each player on an opposite side of a desk. It's not rocket science and for the bigger tournaments barely an issue. It's actually more ergonomic. Meh. I don't see why options are a bad thing for Tekken or why everyone's so against it. I'm not asking for anything they haven't already made and implemented into T7 so far. Currently T7 has no local play, it's all LAN/WAN.

And again... it's not stopping anyone from sitting shoulder to shoulder on one system. hell, that's how I expect to play it locally too.

No offence, but how many big FG tournaments have you run?

It costs a significant amount to rent a large number of consoles. Once you get them, they each have to be individually updated to ensure the correct version of the game is on them. It'd literally be a waste of money and time to ensure this and would absolutely- absolutely- jeapordise the tournament getting done at all in the case of a large one (because, say, 10 of the 200 round one fights can be played at the same time instead of 20. Because of double elimination, even getting to the second round is the most challenging part of the day).

You may not realise this but TOs do NOT use arcade machines, even if they have them, for tournaments by and large because that's forcing people to use a stick (eliminating all pad players) and forcing them to play sitting, effectively, at a table. Usually when you see a cab on a stream set up in a tournament, it's effectively a wooden box with a console and a splitter inside it so the players can do what they need to!

I have seen real cabs at tournaments before but generally they're used for casuals. It's not that we're opposed to it being in the game, just saying it absolutely wouldn't get used for the purpose you think it would.

Azza

Yeah the better solution would simply run the game on one machine and spilt it across 2 monitors, rules out potential network interruptions as well as costing a lot less. In a fighting game tournament you don't stay at one set up, you play where your told too and bring your controller with you so the loss of network play is irrelevant unless a person is incredible lazy and walking a couple of feet is too much work for him.

So there would be very little to gain from this and it would open the door for pirates to play it online via VPN. The added latency of VPN, and lack of ranking and match making has not stopped pirates from using VPN's in the past to play various other games online without paying for them. I'm not against the feature but for the reasons above I'd be surprised if the feature was implemented.

Robert ninja

Doctor DooM wrote: »

not that we're opposed to it being in the game, just saying it absolutely wouldn't get used for the purpose you think it would.

That's fair enough. As long as we're not advocating for less features here. I want T7 to be as awesome as can be.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Once you get them, they each have to be individually updated to ensure the correct version of the game is on them. It'd literally be a waste of money and time to ensure this and would absolutely- absolutely- jeapordise the tournament getting done at all in the case of a large one

Uhm, you're right I don't have experience as a TO but I do have common sense. Wouldn't this be done beforehand? Seems like one would need to be big goofball to leave it last minute. On console it's put disc in, log into PSN, get latest version. Bring as many discs as consoles. On computers it would copy game files to another system, log into steam account, 'install/verify' game directory. I'd wager it's similar effort on both platforms, increasing with each system. Remember, LAN systems would still be able to do local non-LAN play. So 2 systems for one game can, at any time one wishes, become capable of hosting 2 separate games. Just because they're connected dosn't mean Harada comes over to you and slaps you upside the head saying you can't pick local play :P

Doctor DooM wrote: »

usually when you see a cab on a stream set up in a tournament, it's effectively a wooden box with a console and a splitter inside it so the players can do what they need to!

Isn't that what they are all the time anyway? :P Except the actual cabs have computers in them.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

You may not realise this but TOs do NOT use arcade machines, even if they have them, for tournaments by and large because that's forcing people to use a stick (eliminating all pad players)

Didn't T6 have pad support in the cabinets? Like a USB on the machine its self for players to use whatever pad or stick they wanted? Anyway I'm not advocating for cabinet usage.

I don't claim to know for sure if future events would use LAN but I'm very curious as to how it plays out if the home platforms don't have it stripped from them. I'm sure at least someone is going to try it.

Latest interview with markman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-qtY1bTeU0

Azza

Robert ninja wrote: »

Uhm, you're right I don't have experience as a TO but I do have common sense. Wouldn't this be done beforehand? Seems like one would need to be big goofball to leave it last minute. On console it's put disc in, log into PSN, get latest version. Bring as many discs as consoles. On computers it would copy game files to another system, log into steam account, 'install/verify' game directory. I'd wager it's similar effort on both platforms, increasing with each system. Remember, LAN systems would still be able to do local non-LAN play. So 2 systems for one game can, at any time one wishes, become capable of hosting 2 separate games. Just because they're connected dosn't mean Harada comes over to you and slaps you upside the head saying you can't pick local play :P

Its not that simple. Fighting game tournament tend to be more grass roots, organised by the attendees themselves, the attendees provide the consoles for the game to be played. The tournament organisers don't get their hands on the consoles until usually the day in question so they can't be guaranteed the console has the latest updates for various games until just before the event. An update for a game might only be released a day or two before the event etc. Your then at the mercy of the internet connection the venue provides, normally a hotel which in many cases has proven to be quite unreliable or not particularly fast

Isn't that what they are all the time anyway? :P Except the actual cabs have computers in them.

Its what the old school hardcore fighting game players want and prefer but none of these types exist here in Ireland.


Didn't T6 have pad support in the cabinets? Like a USB on the machine its self for players to use whatever pad or stick they wanted? Anyway I'm not advocating for cabinet usage.

I don't claim to know for sure if future events would use LAN but I'm very curious as to how it plays out if the home platforms don't have it stripped from them. I'm sure at least someone is going to try it.

On a side note official Tekken 6 cabinets had to bought in batches of 6 at release and it came along with a score display screen as well. Cost $36,000. Cost is the reason arcades are dead outside of Japan.

,

Robert ninja

Azza wrote: »

Its not that simple. Fighting game tournament tend to be more grass routes, organised by the attendees themselves, the attendees provide the consoles for the game to be played. The tournament organisers don't get their hands on the consoles until usually the day in question so they can't be guaranteed the console has the latest updates for various games until just before the event. An update for a game might only be released a day or two before the event etc. Your then at the mercy of the internet connection the venue provides, normally a hotel which in many cases has proven to be quite unreliable or not particularly fast

Ah I see. Very informative. If internet is a bottleneck for updating multiple systems then would it be better to have computers instead of consoles? I've copied game files from system to system before a lot. You simply have to log in to the steam client (if it's a steam game which T7 is) with the game files and verify/install. In otherwords, press INSTALL on the game and it will auto do it as long as the user put the files in the right directory.

This means you only need to download the latest version/update once and apply it to all systems manually which needs only a large enough portable storage like a USB stick. The bottleneck then is the quality of your storage device and USB port version. But even at the worst quality I suspect would outpace any western ISP.

On a side note official Tekken 6 cabinets had to bought in batches of 6 at release and it came along with a score display screen as well. Cost $36,000. Cost is the reason arcades are dead outside of Japan.

Yeah I remember the trailers. That kind of stuff is indeed made for an actual arcade enviornment, though. Still, it seems like a mistake not to include 3rd party control input support on a cabinet, even for their own sake. I remember official TTT2 tournaments in Japan and Korea having to have cabinet engineers on the spot to quickly change out the stick from Korean/Japanese style depending on the player. That seemed like a lot more expense and effort than USB. I dunno, though. Who knows what they were thinking with that.

chopperbyrne

Robert ninja wrote: »

Ah I see. Very informative. If internet is a bottleneck for updating multiple systems then would it be better to have computers instead of consoles? I've copied game files from system to system before a lot. You simply have to log in to the steam client (if it's a steam game which T7 is) with the game files and verify/install. In otherwords, press INSTALL on the game and it will auto do it as long as the user put the files in the right directory.

It's hard enough to get people to bring consoles which can fit in a backpack. Getting people to bring in PCs which are generally bigger (if it's a gaming PC), and more expensive simply would not happen. One console, one copy of the game, one display, and two players is the ideal setup for tournament play.

This means you only need to download the latest version/update once and apply it to all systems manually which needs only a large enough portable storage like a USB stick. The bottleneck then is the quality of your storage device and USB port version. But even at the worst quality I suspect would outpace any western ISP.

You'd also run into the problem of PC spec differences. What if one motherboard chipset, or a certain graphics card has slight performance increase/decreases? For tournaments, you need to make it as uniform as possible. You'd also need to ensure that every PC has every driver needed for every kind of controller that could be connected.

Yeah I remember the trailers. That kind of stuff is indeed made for an actual arcade enviornment, though. Still, it seems like a mistake not to include 3rd party control input support on a cabinet, even for their own sake. I remember official TTT2 tournaments in Japan and Korea having to have cabinet engineers on the spot to quickly change out the stick from Korean/Japanese style depending on the player. That seemed like a lot more expense and effort than USB. I dunno, though. Who knows what they were thinking with that.

By all means, leave LAN support in the console version, but it won't be used by the vast, vast majority of people and will simply be a waste of development money.

duffsocks

Robert ninja wrote: »

Ah I see. Very informative. If internet is a bottleneck for updating multiple systems then would it be better to have computers instead of consoles? I've copied game files from system to system before a lot. You simply have to log in to the steam client (if it's a steam game which T7 is) with the game files and verify/install. In otherwords, press INSTALL on the game and it will auto do it as long as the user put the files in the right directory.

This means you only need to download the latest version/update once and apply it to all systems manually which needs only a large enough portable storage like a USB stick. The bottleneck then is the quality of your storage device and USB port version. But even at the worst quality I suspect would outpace any western ISP.

I think one of the issues with using pc is consistency. A ps4 is cheaper, more portable than a pc and you know all the ps4s will have the exact same hardware.

Azza

Robert ninja wrote: »

Ah I see. Very informative. If internet is a bottleneck for updating multiple systems then would it be better to have computers instead of consoles? I've copied game files from system to system before a lot. You simply have to log in to the steam client (if it's a steam game which T7 is) with the game files and verify/install. In otherwords, press INSTALL on the game and it will auto do it as long as the user put the files in the right directory.

This means you only need to download the latest version/update once and apply it to all systems manually which needs only a large enough portable storage like a USB stick. The bottleneck then is the quality of your storage device and USB port version. But even at the worst quality I suspect would outpace any western ISP.




Yeah I remember the trailers. That kind of stuff is indeed made for an actual arcade enviornment, though. Still, it seems like a mistake not to include 3rd party control input support on a cabinet, even for their own sake. I remember official TTT2 tournaments in Japan and Korea having to have cabinet engineers on the spot to quickly change out the stick from Korean/Japanese style depending on the player. That seemed like a lot more expense and effort than USB. I dunno, though. Who knows what they were thinking with that.

Up till recently fighting games did not get much representation on PC. Things have greatly improved recently on PC but most fighting game players still tend to play on console. Console still has a wider selection of fighting games but probably most importantly is console are more portable. For those reason its the preferred choice for fighting game tournaments, even if they are slower to update then PC's when it comes to patches and updates.

Robert ninja

chopperbyrne wrote: »

By all means, leave LAN support in the console version, but it won't be used by the vast, vast majority of people and will simply be a waste of development money.

It's already developed since it first hit the arcades. Unless you mean cost of making that work on console? Not sure if UE4 would have any part here. Would love to get Murray from the Tekken team to answer some tech questions.

I think one of the issues with using pc is consistency. A ps4 is cheaper, more portable than a pc and you know all the ps4s will have the exact same hardware.

Unless it's PS4Neo I kid I kid, I know that as much. But again, for the biggest tournaments like Evo and what not they already spend a lot of money on computers to manage all the systems, streams etc. The projectors are huge and costly to run via energy I've no doubt. A sturdy computer or a console for the players is probably the least expensive thing for the whole event when you think of the amount of staff, taxes etc. Besides I'm sure alienware and other manufacturers would just love to lend them hardware and support as sponsorship.

T7 @ some rediculous resolution and settings on a huge high end screen or projector would be a sight to behold! But not nessecary, just me dreaming

Up till recently fighting games did not get much representation on PC. Things have greatly improved recently on PC but most fighting game players still tend to play on console. Console still has a wider selection of fighting games but probably most importantly is console are more portable. For those reason its the preferred choice for fighting game tournaments, even if they are slower to update then PC's when it comes to patches and updates.

Commercially and for modern titles, yes. Everything you said is correct. For classic and niche I'm pretty sure PC wins out wins with the widest selection of games. I think FGs have been declining in popularity a lot anyway. A lot of old school fans just lost interest in what modern FGs are like. The people who got me into Tekken no longer play the modern ones, they think they're hot garabge :eek:

Azza

Classic and niche fighting games are not played at most current tournaments outside of small player run side tournaments. Usually its the ultra hardcore players who do and they are the ones that want to play on arcade hardware because emulation on PC isn't 100% accurate, too much input lag or game running slightly too fast or slow etc.

Fighting games had declined greatly but SF IV single handily resurrected the genre and we are back at the point the genre is overcrowded now. But never fear at the rate things are going SF V may single handily kill the genre once more :pac:

Fighting games are a niche genre and the hardcore old school fighting game players are a niche within a niche, so what they want is largely irrelevant.

You get the same split in any genre of old scene vs new scene. CS 1.6 vs Source vs GO or the Peoples Front of Judea vs the Judean's People Front etc.

Marlon_s_1

Did Dublin ever at one point have arcades in malls? Back in the Philippines, the crappy internet connections at home forced gamers to congregate in arcade malls or internet cafes...which i guess...silver linings.