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Unopened Floor Boards

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  • 14-07-2014 11:27am
    #1
    Hou1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭


    We recently ripped out our carpets, all 80 sq yards of it, and laid down laminate (@ 14.99 per sq yd). When we were finished there were three unopened boxes left over and the local shop (in Carrick on Suir) from which we bought them refuses to refund us. What, if any, are our rights?


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    #2
    circular flexing
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    You have no rights whatsoever. The shop may choose to refund you out of goodwill but they have no obligation to refund you.


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    #3
    Doom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭Doom


    It would be normal to buy some extra just in case for mistakes and such, normally you would agree with the shop before about returns for unused boxes.


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    #4
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,312 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Measure twice, cut buy once.

    ;)


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    #5
    Hou1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Hou1ie


    circular flexing wrote: »
    You have no rights whatsoever.
    Well that's fairly clear! Thanks :)


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    #6
    Hou1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Hou1ie


    endacl wrote: »
    Measure twice, cut buy once.

    ;)

    True, but see above


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    #7
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    maybe stick them up on adverts/donedeal at an attractive price, I'm sure you'll get a tradesman to buy them off you.


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    #8
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Zero rights. You agree these things before you buy in future. I would just not do business with them again and tell them as such that you couldn't recommend them. Store credit might have been fair of them.


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    #9
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    goz83 wrote: »
    Zero rights. You agree these things before you buy in future. I would just not do business with them again and tell them as such that you couldn't recommend them. Store credit might have been fair of them.

    The store did absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever. Store supplied exactly as requested (possibly bought them in specially as very few actually have physical stock) to the customer's OWN measurements.

    The fact that the OP made up his/her own mind that store should take back something they didn't is ridiculous.

    Some places (such as Noyeks) will accept back stock items with a 20% re-stocking charge - but this is usualy printed on the invoice. But unless stated, assume that such a policy does not apply anywhere.


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    #10
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    delahuntv wrote: »
    The store did absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever. Store supplied exactly as requested (possibly bought them in specially as very few actually have physical stock) to the customer's OWN measurements.

    The fact that the OP made up his/her own mind that store should take back something they didn't is ridiculous.

    Some places (such as Noyeks) will accept back stock items with a 20% re-stocking charge - but this is usualy printed on the invoice. But unless stated, assume that such a policy does not apply anywhere.

    Where did I say the store did anything wrong? In fact, I said that these things should be agreed "before" the purchase. I then added that I would not do business with them again. Even though they did nothing wrong, they might have been smart enough to do something right and offer store credit (assuming the boards were not custom ordered, as you suggested was likely (though I disagree)).

    Had the OP been given store credit, the shop would not likely have been out and in fact, may have received more business when the credit was called to action. If I received a credit in those circumstances and the store had nothing else I wanted, I would have offered the credit to someone else, who would use it as a discount from a store they might not have even considered visiting. Business sense has to come into it, if there is going to be no actual loss.


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    #11
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    goz83 wrote: »
    Where did I say the store did anything wrong? In fact, I said that these things should be agreed "before" the purchase. I then added that I would not do business with them again. Even though they did nothing wrong, they might have been smart enough to do something right and offer store credit (assuming the boards were not custom ordered, as you suggested was likely (though I disagree)).

    Had the OP been given store credit, the shop would not likely have been out and in fact, may have received more business when the credit was called to action. If I received a credit in those circumstances and the store had nothing else I wanted, I would have offered the credit to someone else, who would use it as a discount from a store they might not have even considered visiting. Business sense has to come into it, if there is going to be no actual loss.


    by saying that you would not do business with such a store again or saying you would not recommend them, you are inferring they did not do right.

    In 90%+ of cases, wood flooring and carpet is brought in to order. This allows for stores to offer a large range of finishes and its why you see loads of display bpards and not loads of pallets.

    With the exception of a couple of trade places such as Noyeks who distribute flooring and who are also open to the public and who charge a 20% restocking fee, I have never seen such a return service offered on wood flooring.

    If a store was offering that service, you can be sure prices would rise to offset the losses.


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    #12
    witnessmenow
    Registered Users Posts: 7,163 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    delahuntv wrote: »
    by saying that you would not do business with such a store again or saying you would not recommend them, you are inferring they did not do right.

    In 90%+ of cases, wood flooring and carpet is brought in to order. This allows for stores to offer a large range of finishes and its why you see loads of display bpards and not loads of pallets.

    With the exception of a couple of trade places such as Noyeks who distribute flooring and who are also open to the public and who charge a 20% restocking fee, I have never seen such a return service offered on wood flooring.

    If a store was offering that service, you can be sure prices would rise to offset the losses.

    I know its not wood flooring, but my Dad's tile shop we would offer full refund on unopened boxes of tiles with no restocking fee. We would always recommending holding onto a few boxes in case you need to replace tiles down the road. I don't believe his shop is any more expensive than anywhere else tbh (but I wouldn't know for sure!)

    Special order items would not be included in this, but would be clearly communicated


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    #13
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    delahuntv wrote: »
    by saying that you would not do business with such a store again or saying you would not recommend them, you are inferring they did not do right.

    But, I am not inferring they did wrong. They did business as they saw fit. As I said above, they could have been more flexible with the extra unopened boxes. Why would I recommend a wood floor retailer, who won't take back unopened boxes? I would understand for special order items, or items sold several weeks previous.
    delahuntv wrote: »
    In 90%+ of cases, wood flooring and carpet is brought in to order. This allows for stores to offer a large range of finishes and its why you see loads of display bpards and not loads of pallets.

    90%+ ? Really? I highly doubt it. In fact, I would say the opposite is true. I have purchased wooden and laminate flooring from a number of places in Dublin and have always been able to return any extra boxes, usually for a refund, or for store credit. The only place that would not have accepted a return on wooden floors was Bargaintown in Coolock, when they were selling off stock in a sale. I always got the sales rep to write "return unopened packs" on the sales invoice, so I would not get stung. Thankfully, I never needed to return stock, because I measured and calculated and found it wise to have a pack left spare for the customer.
    delahuntv wrote: »
    With the exception of a couple of trade places such as Noyeks who distribute flooring and who are also open to the public and who charge a 20% restocking fee, I have never seen such a return service offered on wood flooring.

    As above. Never an issue for me. Never shopped in Noyeks though.
    delahuntv wrote: »
    If a store was offering that service, you can be sure prices would rise to offset the losses.

    Not really. Popular lines are usually well stocked and most of the places selling the wood floors have plenty of space to keep stock. Certain products would be special order, but "no returns" was always written on sales invoices in those cases. I am speaking on this point, as someone who used to sell tiles, bathroom furniture and a small choice of wooden flooring. The customer always knew if stuff could be returned and in what time frame.


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    #14
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,673 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Hou1ie wrote: »
    We recently ripped out our carpets, all 80 sq yards of it, and laid down laminate (@ 14.99 per sq yd). When we were finished there were three unopened boxes left over and the local shop (in Carrick on Suir) from which we bought them refuses to refund us. What, if any, are our rights?

    Does this retailer display a "Return Policy" clearly in the store and if so, what is it ?


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    #15
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    While within their rights, its crap service. Why people are so quick to defend crap service is beyond me. It's the reason why small shops keep going out of business and the larger chains keep taking over.

    Local shops live and die on word of mouth.


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    #16
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Bepolite wrote: »
    While within their rights, its crap service. Why people are so quick to defend crap service is beyond me. It's the reason why small shops keep going out of business and the larger chains keep taking over.

    Local shops live and die on word of mouth.
    What's a shop to do with a few boxes of flooring? Unless it's a stock item it's going to sit on a shelf or in a corner gathering dust. Small shops can't afford to carry stock like that. It's not their fault the op over ordered.


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    #17
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    athtrasna wrote: »
    What's a shop to do with a few boxes of flooring? Unless it's a stock item it's going to sit on a shelf or in a corner gathering dust. Small shops can't afford to carry stock like that. It's not their fault the op over ordered.

    You're assuming it isn't, I'm assuming it is. Taking your point of view for a moment, purchase it on a sale or return basis if there is an additional cost to that give the customer the choice. Simple, good, customer service.


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    #18
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Bepolite wrote: »
    You're assuming it isn't, I'm assuming it is. Taking your point of view for a moment, purchase it on a sale or return basis if there is an additional cost to that give the customer the choice. Simple, good, customer service.

    Would be bad for business as you would be unable to forecast how much your monthly take would be.

    Also the Business would have to pay the invoice to the supplier regardless.


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    #19
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    /sigh...

    Out of business they go telling the bank they did everything right. There's never going to be a service culture in Ireland. Small businesses treat customers like crap because of every excuse under the sun, large companies do it because they have a monopoly because there are no small businesses competing on service.

    Of course there are exceptions and they tend to be where I do my shopping. I'm finding more and more though I have to go to the big-boys to get the level of service I demand as a consumer.

    I'm absolutely sure the flooring shop in Carrick has a board meeting every week to discuss their forecasts with their shareholders and creditors.


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    #20
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Bepolite wrote: »
    /sigh...

    Out of business they go telling the bank they did everything right. There's never going to be a service culture in Ireland. Small businesses treat customers like crap because of every excuse under the sun, large companies do it because they have a monopoly because there are no small businesses competing on service.

    Of course there are exceptions and they tend to be where I do my shopping. I'm finding more and more though I have to go to the big-boys to get the level of service I demand as a consumer.

    I'm absolutely sure the flooring shop in Carrick has a board meeting every week to discuss their forecasts with their shareholders and creditors.

    Speaking from experience with a Dutch business, usually the RMA period is a certain time frame, if your a small supplier this become very difficult to manage on your books.

    If you buy flooring then buy the right amount, don't buy more than you need and expect to be able to return the rest.

    How are they to know the flooring has even been stored correctly, or left out in the sun or stored in a damp place ?


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    #21
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    keithclancy wrote: »
    Speaking from experience with a Dutch business, usually the RMA period is a certain time frame, if your a small supplier this become very difficult to manage on your books.

    I am disappointed no one like my board meeting pun... It really isnt that difficult to manage this. Many businesses do it large and small. If the suppliers is a pain you deal with a different supplier. That said the business will bear some inconvenience, that's what they get paid for.
    keithclancy wrote: »
    If you buy flooring then buy the right amount, don't buy more than you need and expect to be able to return the rest.

    I'm afraid we disagree here. Buying a little over is exactly what you do.
    keithclancy wrote: »
    How are they to know the flooring has even been stored correctly, or left out in the sun or stored in a damp place ?

    Common sense and the wonderful gifts our makers gave us.

    Fair enough you have you opinion and I have mine. Many people if not the majority would share your opinion. As I have said though it's why, imo, we have the level of service in this country that we do.

    There shouldn't need to be a law in place for a business to want to win customers for life rather than just make one purchase.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bepolite wrote: »
    There shouldn't need to be a law in place for a business to want to win customers for life rather than just make one purchase.
    In flooring one purchase might be a lifetime of business.


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    #23
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In flooring one purchase might be a lifetime of business.

    So screw as much as possible?

    All my flooring has come from one company, I didn't do all my floors in one go. When the Carpet in the bedroom needs doing again... guess what back to said company.


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    #24
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Bepolite wrote: »
    So screw as much as possible?

    All my flooring has come from one company, I didn't do all my floors in one go. When the Carpet in the bedroom needs doing again... guess what back to said company.

    While I agree with most of what you post, the OP was not "screwed", he received exactly what he ordered, at the price agreed. It is not the shops fault he ordered too much, presumably the shop did not do the measurements. So why should they give a refund?

    Most of us floor our house once in a blue moon, the next time we have no obligation to go back to the same place so we shop around for a different product or better price. I agree with the previous poster on this one, this is most likely a one off purchase so OP got what he ordered this time.


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    #25
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Bepolite wrote: »
    I'm afraid we disagree here. Buying a little over is exactly what you do.

    The OP has multiple boxes though, that's not a little over. That's serious miscalculation


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    #26
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Bepolite wrote: »
    I'm afraid we disagree here. Buying a little over is exactly what you do.

    That's what I said, buy what you need (The floor plus some spare)

    Not the floor + spare + un-necessary excess that you want to return because you did not calculate how much you needed properly.


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    #27
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    keithclancy wrote: »
    That's what I said, buy what you need (The floor plus some spare)

    Not the floor + spare + un-necessary excess that you want to return because you did not calculate how much you needed properly.


    Well heaven forbid the customer makes a mistake with their measurements.

    i mean it's not as if anyone else ever made a mistake. http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

    I work for a retailer that sells flooring. I can tell you that we would have had no problem taking back unopened boxes.

    If it was a customer specific order, the same would stand, as our supplier would probably have agreed to take them back themselves.

    Unless it was bespoke, and specifically manufactured for the customer, then not taking the flooring back is just bad business imo. And if it was bespoke then we would probably have agreed no refunds with the customer beforehand, and maybe even sent someone out to do a buddy check, to make sure that no one is out of pocket, the manufacturer, the supplier, the retailer or the customer.


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    #28
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    keithclancy wrote: »
    That's what I said, buy what you need (The floor plus some spare)

    Not the floor + spare + un-necessary excess that you want to return because you did not calculate how much you needed properly.

    You may need to work out of multiple boxes when laying a wood floor.

    As I've said come down to customer service, the shop has met it's legal obligations. I wouldn't shop there and neither will many of the OPs friends. If that's what they where going for fair enough. I'd be going for recommendations through word of mouth in a community that small.


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    #29
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    knucklehead6 wrote: »
    Well heaven forbid the customer makes a mistake with their measurements.

    i mean it's not as if anyone else ever made a mistake. http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

    I work for a retailer that sells flooring. I can tell you that we would have had no problem taking back unopened boxes.

    If it was a customer specific order, the same would stand, as our supplier would probably have agreed to take them back themselves.

    Unless it was bespoke, and specifically manufactured for the customer, then not taking the flooring back is just bad business imo. And if it was bespoke then we would probably have agreed no refunds with the customer beforehand, and maybe even sent someone out to do a buddy check, to make sure that no one is out of pocket, the manufacturer, the supplier, the retailer or the customer.

    After working in that trade for some years and also doing bits and pieces to my own house, its pretty common knowledge that if you do it yourself you take the risk.

    If your not willing to take the risk then you can pay someone to do it for you as a service with a fixed price agreed in advance.

    If its not bespoke then at the very least you can buy more if you need more, rather than buy too much and expect to return it.


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    #30
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    keithclancy wrote: »
    After working in that trade for some years and also doing bits and pieces to my own house, its pretty common knowledge that if you do it yourself you take the risk.

    You take the risk, yes, but that is the risk of shoddy workmanship etc, not being refused credit for product you don't need.

    If i was in the OP's shoes, I'd be thinking I've been a bit screwed over too. Yes, the retailer is legally correct, but it's poor customer surface, and to be honest, sounds a bit jobsworth-ish to me


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