EGAR IN THE NEWS FOR CRUELTY

DBB

snoman wrote: »

It's not really naive if we are not aware of 'the stuff going on in the background'. If you don't feel you can supply those details then don't judge me if I come to a different conclusion.

You have totally missed my point, and I'm not judging you.. wherever you got that idea from I don't know.
My point is that people tend to assume that just because someone runs a rescue, and takes in poorly treated dogs, that they're somehow above reproach, and people pay donations, donate beds and food, foster, and do transport for them, without actually making sure that everything is what they think it is.
I am not prepared to tell anyone what I know in this public forum, because I have already been at the receiving end of Sarah Gunther's vitriol, from many years ago too... It's nothing new.She tried to do me a lot of harm and was banned from several websites for so doing. But that's not my point here.
My point is as above. There's no smoke without fire. I'm just asking people not to be naive, and not make assumptions that all rescues are to be trusted unless they're more aware of the facts. That is not being judgemental.


Edited to add: sorry snoman, I've since seen your post where you felt what you said sounded harsh, and that is, I'll admit, how I read it! Sorry! :-)

sambuka41

DBB wrote: »

My point is that people tend to assume that just because someone runs a rescue, and takes in poorly treated dogs, that they're somehow above reproach, and people pay donations, donate beds and food, foster, and do transport for them, without actually making sure that everything is what they think it is.

I suppose it's a hard lesson that a lot of people (me included) in Ireland have learned over the last year, that charities are not always what they seem to be. This is the animal version of what we have already seen with the human charities that are misappropriating funds and god only knows what else.


The saddest part is that this is a rescue for dogs that are already battling stigma, and now to have this happen. I hope them being associated with this disastrous 'only bull breed rescue' in Ireland doesn't do any more harm to their reputation

Very sad situation all round, I don't know this person, maybe she is a b***h or maybe she is unwell, either way a lot of harm was caused here.

Whispered

Maybe, because of this, more rescues will open their doors to these breeds. They do need it more now than ever.

Pretzill

I don't want to belittle the term 'Hoarder' as I know (only from watching TV shows) That there is often something more going on than the actual hoarding. But to dedicate yourself to animal welfare, to take people's donations (and let's face it most of us aren't in a position to be overly generous) and you would naively or not think that rescues have the best interests of the animals at heart.

I am under no illusion that it's a bloody hard and thankless job. My youngest pup is a rescue from a well known rescue in these parts, we got him from a very capable fosterer - and I would have no hesitation to support them when I can.

But this person, who may or may not have some sort of underlying problem, must have known that leaving the corpse(s) of any dead animal(s) in an area where live dogs are living was at the very least unhygienic. You could (almost) forgive a dirty kennel if it wasn't for the fact these dogs where filthy with long nails and probably left that way for an extended period. There's no excusing animal neglect, but from someone who dedicates their life to helping animals in distress and then neglects them? It's unforgivable.

With a heavy heart, I wonder if any other small rescues are leaving dogs with a fate worse than the inevitability of a pound. It's a lesson to all animal lovers to spoil their animal friends a little more tonight and to those new to keeping animals to realise it's not an easy, cuddly job, animals have needs that must be met.

muddypaws

I fell out with Sarah a few years ago, had some run ins with her before that, but I still believed EGAR was a decent rescue, and supported her, including bringing a van load of bedding and supplies back from England - I'll help anybody that asks if I can. I may not get on with someone personally, but try not to let that interfere with animal welfare and rescue if I believe they are helping. Turns out I was very wrong about that one.

But I think a huge issue here is the bitchiness and pure nastiness that goes on in rescue, so that when someone does have genuine concerns, it tends to be written off as just that, bitchiness. I'd hope (but I think its a vain hope) that one of the things learnt from this, is that people should just get on with what they are doing, and be professional - even if a volunteer, you don't have to be paid to act in a professional manner. So that perhaps if a situation like this arises again, people can voice their concerns, and they will be listened to without an underlying agenda being assumed. I don't know how bad it used to be before the advent of the internet, but now it is so easy to badmouth people, and get a pitchfork crowd mentality going. I'll hold my hands up, I have been in FB groups and found myself caught up in things, thankfully I copped on enough to get myself out of them.

If people want to support a small rescue, please continue to do so, but, as other posters have said, go and visit if you can, make sure that they actually are in rescue and not hoarding. There are some fantastic smaller rescues around Ireland who work very hard and save animals, often their premises aren't all singing and all dancing, but the animals are well cared for.

fits

I was put off dog rescues some years ago when I had a close encounter with another who was later convicted. God complexes and animal hoarders abound and the sooner regulation of charities and rescues comes in the better.

anewme

I was very shocked to read this thread today. Ive read some of the posts on boards and would have had this person down as one of the good ones. There was nothing good about what happened there. God love those poor dogs.

Im hoping my 10 or 20 or so per month can help needy animals. I actually feel for some of the smaller genuine shelters who will get the kickback of people not trusting them because of this. Shame on that woman. No excuses. She hurt those who depended and needed her most. For her own selfish reasons. SHAME on her.

DBB

Pretzill wrote: »

With a heavy heart, I wonder if any other small rescues are leaving dogs with a fate worse than the inevitability of a pound.

There's no doubt that there are some small rescues that leave a lot to be desired. The majority of them are great, really genuinely great. But some of us are well aware of the fact that some of us end up having to rescue dogs from rescues.
There's also another scandal that'll eventually break... Although in the early days these tended to be very well vetted, there is now a horrible, unseen problem of dogs being lifted out of pounds and *some* rescues in their hundreds, even thousands every year, shoved on a bus unneutered, unvaxed, unchipped, un-quarantined, and sent to the UK. Some are lucky enough to end up in the great UK rescues.... But there are others ending up with the UK hoarders, and the really poor UK rescues.
But they make the rehoming figures in some Irish pounds and rescues, where they were sourced from, look good. Out of sight, out of mind.

doubter

I'm not sure if it's allowed to post this so admin, feel free to delete.
There's a page started on facebook that is collecting files and back up in regards to EGARS history. Feel free to have a look.it;s by no means a witch hunt, and sarah has not been blocked so she can comment if she so wishes.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/EGAR-Must-never-have-another-animal-in-their-care/479395202197777?fref=nf

ABajaninCork

I have read this thread, the link from the Journal and the FB page shared by doubter in total shock. I remember EGAR's posts from before and always wondered why the account was closed so suddenly.

I'm not in favour of a witch hunt. It's too late for that, and helps nobody. But Sarah should never again have dogs. I also think the Social Services should be offering help to her and her son, given the state of the house. I don't know what if any steps can be taken to ensure she doesn't have any more dogs. As I understand it, she was charged under the old 1911 act, hence the small fine. But she can't be prevented from keeping any more dogs because of this. Is that right?

tk123

fiounnalbe wrote: »

I agree about generally people giving out about rescues and not the people dumping them there, no one can please everyone 100% of the time, especially small rescues who don't have the resources as the big rescue charities and therefore obviously their places are not going to be as nice and shiny as the biggies.

However, there is no excusing what is in these photos. The only way I could forgive EGAR is if these proved to be fake photos...but since she pleaded guilty one presumes they are not.

Ok so they are old kennels that have been flooded and they were only being used because of a bug outbreak, thats grand no one would expect them to be top notch so...but that level of dirt and rubbish thats inside them is beyond a disgrace, no dog should have to sit in that even for a minute. How long could it possibly take to throw all the rubbish out and give the place a sweep??? It's disgusting and especially to treat dogs that have already had such a hard time in life to end up at this "rescue" anyways.

A corpse of a dead dog??? What, why and HOW?!?! I obviously don't know the cause of death, (I can only hope it was not due to neglect by EGAR) but any dead dog should be removed immediately, it's no wonder there was a bug in the kennels with a rotting corpse lying around. There is NO excusing this..NONE! No matter how busy or overwhelmed someone is, this should be top of their priority and not even taking into account anything else in the other pictures, a dead dog decaying in with other dogs in my opinion should be reason alone to have this rescue shut down.

I've read also people defending saying that the GSPCA have a vendetta against EGAR, again it's just my opinion but if she was running the place properly with nothing to hide then the random inspections from the GSPCA should not have bothered her.

Only 250euro fine is beyond a disgrace. I truly hope the dogs that were in the care of EGAR are found loving homes and not one of them ever has to set foot on that premise again. Personally I think she should be banned from ever owning any pet again in her life.

+1 agree with everything you say. I'm not one of her followers btw(!) but when it broke on FB last week that's all it was - FB comments and some randomer's own page hosting the photos - there was no 'news' link to back it all up. I'm kind of interested to see what her 'solicitors' will do now if they exist. She said they ordered the return of the dogs which doesn't seem to be the case and shouldn't be.

Funny in our park you could potentially be fined €130 for not picking up a poo - half the fine for her 'error in judgement'

dharma200

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/galway-charity-worker-fine-250-for-animal-cruelty-after-dead-and-star
Sunday world link saying all the same...

doubter

dharma200 wrote: »

It gets worse... It is looking like this type of thing has happened three times in egar over the past 14 years. There are now photos up of healthy dogs leaving the pound to go to egar, two months later nearly dead from starvation.
The problem is many of these dogs will be pts if seized from her. Horrific horrific and the worst thing for bull breeds in ireland... Staffies and Pitt bulls are at huge risk anyway from ignorance, many rescues won't take dogs that display dog to dog aggression, which can be a trait in pits.... Not human aggression, dog to dog aggression. Some of the stories coming out now are so disturbing. This is the cruelest thing she could have done, to jeopardise all the work and awareness on bull breeds, to double cross them and lie and cheat to them. I feel sick.

Agree. thats the very worsted of it all.Whats going to happen to them? She has a lot to be held accountable for

John_Rambo

I'm amazed. She seemed a bit bonkers like a lot of uber-doggy people (no offense meant to anyone, you know what I mean!) but I'm shocked at this. Obviously something's not right. She needs to look after her mental health immediately.

dharma200

She has all the traits of an animal hoarder. I feel so sorry for her son and hope he gets through this unscathed.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think she had the best intentions for the dogs and life got on top of her.

I take back what i said :mad:

njs030

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm amazed. She seemed a bit bonkers like a lot of uber-doggy people (no offense meant to anyone, you know what I mean!) but I'm shocked at this. Obviously something's not right. She needs to look after her mental health immediately.

Agree totally. After that she needs to sign over the 8 dogs in GSPCA care to them and allow them to be rehomed. I can't imagine why a so called 'dog lover' is happy to have them sitting in kennels (where they've been for a year) for another few months! If her plan is to re-home them to the best possible place then it shouldn't matter who does it should it?

Secondly she should hand over all the other animals in her care to the many rescues offering to take them. The majority of her support is gone, only the animals will suffer as I can't see many people offering money.

These supporters and friends really need to stop encouraging her to fight the world and instead concentrate on what's important. I hope someone can help her, I really do.

Binka

I've just read this thread and too am Shocked. We almost adopted a dog from her about 10 years ago but backed out in the end as her conditions for adoption were a bit strange.
I believe she took in Bruce, the staffie on death row in the north. I remember following his story closely at the time. Does anyone know of his fate? Has he survived and been taken away by the gardai?

Galway K9

Egar on here is Sarah gunther, many a time she criticized and harassed people for invalid perceived cruelty and here she is. No more remarks now Sarah or Egar?

dharma200

It is reported online she referred to Bruce as her 'golden goose', as far as is known Bruce is alive and well. Read the online blog on Lennox for some interesting reading though.. Just google her name and Lennox and blog

Raminahobbin

Deleted User wrote: »

I take back what i said :mad:

Yep, the more that comes out the more I lose any sympathy.

muddypaws

dharma200 wrote: »

It is reported online she referred to Bruce as her 'golden goose', as far as is known Bruce is alive and well. Read the online blog on Lennox for some interesting reading though.. Just google her name and Lennox and blog

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Yep, the more that comes out the more I lose any sympathy.

But is more coming out? I am not defending her in any shape or form whatsoever, but this is becoming a witch hunt, Sarah would do this herself, and now its being done to her, some would say poetic justice but 'he said/she said' stories aren't going to do any good are they? All sorts of things are being said, but is there proof?

I did google Lennox and blog earlier, and again, its all the same, one side saying one thing, another saying the opposite, but all hearsay, with no proof on either side. The woman has been caught, no pound or rescue will work with her again, hopefully people can persuade her to relinquish the animals she still has, and not to go forward with trying to get these particular dogs back, if it really is all about the animals, rather than personalities and politics, is that not where it should end?

Raminahobbin

muddypaws wrote: »

But is more coming out? I am not defending her in any shape or form whatsoever, but this is becoming a witch hunt, Sarah would do this herself, and now its being done to her, some would say poetic justice but 'he said/she said' stories aren't going to do any good are they? All sorts of things are being said, but is there proof?

I did google Lennox and blog earlier, and again, its all the same, one side saying one thing, another saying the opposite, but all hearsay, with no proof on either side. The woman has been caught, no pound or rescue will work with her again, hopefully people can persuade her to relinquish the animals she still has, and not to go forward with trying to get these particular dogs back, if it really is all about the animals, rather than personalities and politics, is that not where it should end?

Poor phrasing on my part, I meant 'the more I find out' because prior to this I hadn't paid much attention to the drama.

But I have no interest in a witch hunt either, and even though my sympathy is waning hugely for the woman, I'm very conscious of the fact that she has a young son and that with stuff like this, the persecution can and does spread like wildfire. Beyond having the place closed down and animals taken, ideally voluntarily, I hope she gets left alone. I hope the viciousness of the backlash dies down and that the consequences don't permeate beyond where it's appropriate for them to permeate.

gctest50

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Poor phrasing on my part, I meant 'the more I find out' because prior to this I hadn't paid much attention to the drama.

But I have no interest in a witch hunt either, and even though my sympathy is waning hugely for the woman, I'm very conscious of the fact that she has a young son and that with stuff like this, the persecution can and does spread like wildfire. Beyond having the place closed down and animals taken, ideally voluntarily, I hope she gets left alone. I hope the viciousness of the backlash dies down and that the consequences don't permeate beyond where it's appropriate for them to permeate.

Counting the state of the dogs is the kid ok ?

Millem

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Poor phrasing on my part, I meant 'the more I find out' because prior to this I hadn't paid much attention to the drama.

But I have no interest in a witch hunt either, and even though my sympathy is waning hugely for the woman, I'm very conscious of the fact that she has a young son and that with stuff like this, the persecution can and does spread like wildfire. Beyond having the place closed down and animals taken, ideally voluntarily, I hope she gets left alone. I hope the viciousness of the backlash dies down and that the consequences don't permeate beyond where it's appropriate for them to permeate.

I am with you on this! For years I thought she had done great work, now I did a bit googling and mad stuff is coming up. I don't understand most of it but it's crazy. I am not a doctor but obviously there must be something wrong with her. The images are shocking on that Facebook site in fact I couldn't look at most of them. I feel very sorry for her son I hope he didn't witness all those terrible conditions and things that went on. Personally I think it would scar me for life.

anniehoo

Mod note: I have unapproved only one unsubstantiated post so far which I can't allow until there is a valid media link. As you can all appreciate this is a highly contentious and emotive thread but we cannot allow "sensationalist" or "what if" claims without valid backup.

Can we also stop the discussion of "mental health" issues too. It's a fine line and again unsubstantiated.

This thread is unfortunately going to be moderated heavily.

Thanks.

snoman

gctest50 wrote: »

Counting the state of the dogs is the kid ok ?

If you are really concerned then I suggest that you contact Social Services.

doubter

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Poor phrasing on my part, I meant 'the more I find out' because prior to this I hadn't paid much attention to the drama.

But I have no interest in a witch hunt either, and even though my sympathy is waning hugely for the woman, I'm very conscious of the fact that she has a young son and that with stuff like this, the persecution can and does spread like wildfire. Beyond having the place closed down and animals taken, ideally voluntarily, I hope she gets left alone. I hope the viciousness of the backlash dies down and that the consequences don't permeate beyond where it's appropriate for them to permeate.

no one I now has any interest in harassing her, even though emotions are running high.All we would like to see is her stepping back and surrendering her remaining animals. it's common knowledge that EGAR was Sarah G's main source of income, but I don't think thats what the general public needs to be concerned about.she will have to sort that out herself. But those innocent souls need to be released from her ' care'

Dodd

gctest50 wrote: »

Counting the state of the dogs is the kid ok ?

I feel sorry for her as she is obviously not right and her kid could well be taken off her.
I know a women whos two dogs were not house trained amoung other things and her two kids were taken from her.

I mean you can't be right and this kind of thing happens.

Raminahobbin

Dodd wrote: »

I know a women whos two dogs were not house trained amoung other things and her two kids were taken from her.

I'd say there was SUBSTANTIALLY more to the 'among other things' part of that statement for the kids to have been taken off her. You might as well have said they were taken because she ran out of plates, for all the relevance 2 x unhousetrained dogs would have in a decision to remove children.