Are your supers filling?

marizpan

I'm just wondering how others are getting on.
I have one hive that I made several increases from earlier in the year that has half filled a super already, which I wasn't expecting, as I had been using it to rear queen cells.
Another hive I let get good and strong for honey production is only just now starting to work its first super.

Hopefully a few good weeks of hot weather will do the trick!

brianmc

marizpan wrote: »

I'm just wondering how others are getting on.
I have one hive that I made several increases from earlier in the year that has half filled a super already, which I wasn't expecting, as I had been using it to rear queen cells.
Another hive I let get good and strong for honey production is only just now starting to work its first super.

Hopefully a few good weeks of hot weather will do the trick!

I haven't enough free time to keep up. I thought I had prepared fairly well during the winter for this year but I bought a bunch more supers at the weekend and I'm assembling frames any time I get a chance. One colony that I took off as a small nuc (one frame of brood) in early June is starting on it's second commercial super now.

That said, I did decide not to use any queen excluders this year, so a few of my supers are full, or half full, of brood.

solargain

I have 2 stocks here that I took off as strong nucs start of may , one on its third super the other on its second

marizpan

That's really good going!
Any tips???

I'm not using an excluder this year, one hive well be ready to take another super soon. I will add this below the first super.

solargain

They were just nucs , you never hear about the bad ones . I use poly hives and nucs , they build up real fast in them

SC Kevin

I have 1 super on each of my hives which are either full or the are finishing of capping.

I use Langstroth poly's which hold a lot more, 1 super alone could hold up to about 60 lbs of honey! :eek:

Each of these hives have a second super with only 1 filling up the second one. the other 2 hives havent even touched the foundation cause they were queenless so they decided to put honey in to the brood chamber!

Hopefully in the next few weeks, the new Queens will mate and they will then have to move the honey up!

marizpan

Do you expect a harvest from the newly queened hives for next month ?

brianmc

I'm still only a couple of years new to all of this but I'm feeling quite good about 2014 now! I brought four colonies through the winter and I moved the 3 strongest to oil seed rape. I didn't get much of a crop from the rape but one of the three had brood throughout the brood chamber, first two supers and into the third super at one point. The other two didn't hit the third super with brood. They've been through swarm control and backfilled the supers during that time down to roughly brood and a half. All (should) have new laying queens at this stage - two left to be checked for new brood.

From those, the queens that I pulled out during swarm control have all produced strong colonies too... three of those should give me a crop... brood box and part of a super layed up, each.

Last Autumn, I combined a couple of smaller colonies into bigger colonies leaving my 4 colonies pretty strong for over-wintering. I think that, and the oil seed rape, is what made the difference. (I have to accept that the winter, spring and summer have been almost perfect too of course.)

brianmc

SC Kevin wrote: »

I have 1 super on each of my hives which are either full or the are finishing of capping.

I use Langstroth poly's which hold a lot more, 1 super alone could hold up to about 60 lbs of honey! :eek:

Each of these hives have a second super with only 1 filling up the second one. the other 2 hives havent even touched the foundation cause they were queenless so they decided to put honey in to the brood chamber!

Hopefully in the next few weeks, the new Queens will mate and they will then have to move the honey up!

How are the practicalities of working with Langstroth in Ireland? Is it hard to get equipment?

SC Kevin

brianmc wrote: »

How are the practicalities of working with Langstroth in Ireland? Is it hard to get equipment?

Not really, I know others who have them and we combine our orders at the end of the year from sweinty in Denmark.

Postage can cost over 200 quid to get it sent here which is fine on big orders but when your just looking for 1 hive, it is a pain which is why i try and get everything i think im gonna need for the following year (doesnt all ways work out though! :P)

There are places in the UK that sell Langstroth equipment as well and thats quiet handy cause i can use parcel motel to save on costs.

Last year i bought 3 lang hives and 2 nucs (all poly) Each hive comes with 3 brood chambers/supers. i.e. they are all the same size!

I use 1 for the brood chamber and then the other 2 for supers, the advantage is that i can take a frame from any brood chamber/super for another hive if i want and dont have to worry about frame sizes.

I spent most of this year transferring over from national and those 3 hives are all been used. I find them great for early build up and the walls are about 1.5 inches - 2 inches thick so there is very little heat loss and the queen can lay right up to sides. I had brood on all 10 frames when the queen was laying! :eek:

This was a typical frame from the hives, you can see the hive it self in the back ground and how thick the walls are


(i did some grafting yesterday and will be going out to check to see how they got on tomorrow evening and ill take a pic of the frames in the supers for ye as well)

The poly nucs are great for build up as well and you can very easily be transferring a nuc to a proper hive within a few short weeks.

What im gonna try next year is to make some supers from wood and just use the polys for brood chambers and see how they get on

brianmc

SC Kevin wrote: »

This was a typical frame from the hives, you can see the hive it self in the back ground and how thick the walls are

Very nice!

I can see the appeal in one size boxes of a decent size, hence my questions.

I'll probably stick with what I've got for the time being (national brood, commercial supers) but any new brood boxes I'm buying are going to be the nice new Swienty poly national ones. They have the same dimensions as the wooden kit so can be used with existing floors, roofs, etc.

I guess you can't be selling on too many surplus nucs on Langstroth frames?

SC Kevin

brianmc wrote: »

Very nice!

I can see the appeal in one size boxes of a decent size, hence my questions.

I'll probably stick with what I've got for the time being (national brood, commercial supers) but any new brood boxes I'm buying are going to be the nice new Swienty poly national ones. They have the same dimensions as the wooden kit so can be used with existing floors, roofs, etc.

I guess you can't be selling on too many surplus nucs on Langstroth frames?

No, but im hoping to sell a few nucs next year though. The handy thing about langstroth and national frames is that the are the same size height wise so i can put national frames in to my lang hives, ill leave the queen lay in the nat frames and then transfer them to nucs for sale.

I had just finished transferring over from national a few weeks ago and within 8 days i got 3 swarms in the back garden, 2 in to national nucs i made last year and 1 in to a commercial brood chamber i got from a buddy (i was thinking of going commercial but i like the poly idea and they dont do poly commercial)

I know of people who use poly nationals for brood and wooden supers and its working very well for them.

I think poly brood boxes are the way to go, especially for over wintering.

Here is a thermal image of a poly brood chamber taken last January
As you can see, there is very little heat loss!


Now compare that to a wooden brood chamber



All my hives came through the winter alive (the year before i lost 3 out of 4) I had 2 wooden hives left, a national and a commercial, the national went in to a poly hive when the weather was warm enough to transfer them and but the commercial i had to transfer to a comm nuc they were that depleted of bees and its been in the nuc all year, the queen is only now starting to on the 5th frame, of course she could be a bad queen but she is only a year old

The poly nuc i had came through winter just fine which i was surprised at been a nuc, i thought they didnt have enough bees to get through but they did and i was delighted, again i think its down to the fact that they lost very little heat during the cold months

solargain

If you move over to poly nationals you will find the brood box in the height of the season too small for the queen. The poly brood box has no cold wall hence the queens lays across all frames. Therefore there are 25% more bees in the brood box comparing like for like with the equivalent timber box. Donegal bees stocks langstroth frames etc , they are becoming a bit more popular. For anybody starting out in my opinion its the way to go , the frames are 1/2 the price of the national ones & when you decide to fork on on extractors etc you have a far more competitive market with langstroth being used internationally. I have sold a few langstroth nucs this year for the first time but at any stage I would only ever have one or two nucs to sell in any case.

marizpan

SC Kevin wrote: »

The poly nucs are great for build up as well and you can very easily be transferring a nuc to a proper hive within a few short

I've just ordered three 6 frame poly nucs on your recommendations.
I have four mating nucs that are currently on two frames each in a mating hive.
What has been your experience in over wintering in poly nucs?

SC Kevin

marizpan wrote: »

I've just ordered three 6 frame poly nucs on your recommendations.
I have four mating nucs that are currently on two frames each in a mating hive.
What has been your experience in over wintering in poly nucs?

I think they are great. I used 2 different poly nucs. The swienty nucs and a 6 frame mating nuc (which can be divided in to 2 three frame mating nucs) and both came through winter just fine so 100%

I would however keep them as high of the ground as you can, a stand is just fine. I had mine on blocks and slugs kept getting in to them, plus the swienty ones have 2 holes in the bottom and they were getting in that way There was a good few slugs in the hive after winter and it was damp inside but the nuc STILL survived, i have since covered the hole with some mesh to solve that problem!

Where did you buy your poly nucs from?

And sorry OP, this thread has gone a bit of topic! I will be posting some pics later tonight (weather depending) of some of my lang frames with honey

SC Kevin

solargain wrote: »

If you move over to poly nationals you will find the brood box in the height of the season too small for the queen. The poly brood box has no cold wall hence the queens lays across all frames. Therefore there are 25% more bees in the brood box comparing like for like with the equivalent timber box. Donegal bees stocks langstroth frames etc , they are becoming a bit more popular. For anybody starting out in my opinion its the way to go , the frames are 1/2 the price of the national ones & when you decide to fork on on extractors etc you have a far more competitive market with langstroth being used internationally. I have sold a few langstroth nucs this year for the first time but at any stage I would only ever have one or two nucs to sell in any case.

I agree!

They are the most used hive in the world, so yes, there is more choice when it come to buying equipment, another reason i went with them.

A friend of mine will be going double nat brood, to give the queen plenty of room to lay in. At the moment he has only wooden but will be starting to get poly brood chamebrs. I think he will be going 1 wooded and 1 poly at the start until he can get more poly's.

I didnt know Donegal Bees did langstroth, i checked their website but cant find anything, would be handy if they did! The owner is a member of a beekeeping forum im an admin of so ive PM'd him!

Cheers for letting me know

marizpan

What are the size difference between national and Lang? I have never seen one.

I can't get over much cheaper the poly seems compared to timber , and cheaper shipping charges! Is there a problem with condensation with them, as I don't imagine they breath well but no doubt they are designed with good ventilation.

I ordered the poly nucs from an Irish website. Irishbeesupplies I think at about 41 euro each

SC Kevin

Not much bigger but when combined with been in poly's, it does make a difference.



With poly's losing very little heat, there is no need for as many bees to be in the hive keeping the brood warm so you have a lot more bees out foraging and bringing loads more pollen which in turn gets the queen laying as full capacity so you have a lot of bees! More bees also = more honey!

brianmc

marizpan wrote: »

I can't get over much cheaper the poly seems compared to timber , and cheaper shipping charges! Is there a problem with condensation with them, as I don't imagine they breath well but no doubt they are designed with good ventilation.

As far as I can make out, there are basically two approaches to avoiding condensation and damp... insulate, or ventilate.

With ventilation, you allow air flow to carry damp air away to avoid condensation on cold surfaces.

With insulation, you are trying to avoid cold surfaces for humidity to condense on. So for the purpose of avoiding damp you only need minimal ventilation - you mostly need your box well sealed up to avoid heat escaping. The air in the box (hive) will hold more moisture but it won't have any cold surfaces on which to condense and cause problems.

Hives with open mesh floors strike an interesting balance these days because you can have a well insulated poly box with a snugly fitting crownboard/lid i.e. no ventilation at all in the top. But you have an open mesh floor providing lots of ventilation. If you can avoid windy places the bees have their own little micro-climate bubble inside the box. In my own limited experience I can't help wondering whether the open mesh floor is a help or a hindrance too.

I think if people are considering the poly brood boxes with wooden crown boards/roofs they need to give careful consideration to this because the crownboard or roof is likely to be a cold surface in comparison to the walls of the hive and so that would be where condensation will form. It's the worst possible place because it would be dripping down onto the frames and bees.

Edit: Now that I've written this much I'll flesh my thoughts out further.

With the above in mind, it seems to me to be pointless to go poly unless you have a sealed up crownboard or roof, well insulated and snugly fitting. In other words the only ventilation should be at the bottom of the box. Otherwise you either have a situation where heat is flowing out of the box (despite your efforts to insulate), or you have condensation forming above the bees.

So, IMO, a poly brood box would be pointless without a well insulated top and pointless if there is any ventilation in the top of the hive.

However, just remember that these are possibly the ramblings of a madman and definitely the ramblings of a pretty new beekeeper.

solargain

The poly hives have an open mesh floor so the ventilation is there , the crown boards are usually perspex with holes , so again the ventilation is there. I have noticed that the bees propolise the crown board holes at the end of the season ,so they must not like the draught.

The roof is loose fitting not tight . You may get one frame on the north side of the hive a bit mildew because the bees cleaned it out early after the winter.

IMO there is no comparison the poly hives & supers win hands down

coley

I've only two hives, one a split from this season.
I've just put a second super on the split the first was about 70% full.

The parent colony has two supers and has barely touched the second one.
Seems to be a lot of honey downstairs rather than up in the supers.

I never put the Qex back on the split, had it off when first super went on to encourage the bees up, maybe that's the difference.

-Coley.

brianmc

coley wrote: »

I've only two hives, one a split from this season.
I've just put a second super on the split the first was about 70% full.

The parent colony has two supers and has barely touched the second one.
Seems to be a lot of honey downstairs rather than up in the supers.

I never put the Qex back on the split, had it off when first super went on to encourage the bees up, maybe that's the difference.

-Coley.

They'll get there I reckon. Once the new queen in the split picks up her pace they'll want to move honey out of the brood box and they'll hit the super.

SC Kevin

I put a hive strap around all of my hives and the stand to keep them nice and secure so the roof is on nice and tight.

As solargain said, they do tend to propolise the holes in the crownboard so the OMF must be enough for them.

When ya think about it, supers are really only used in summer when the temps are high anyway so you dont have to worry about heat loss to much. They will still be filled with honey! :P

Remember, bees can survive extreme cold in the like's of Norway when it gets well below 0 for long periods.

Its in the winter that poly's, for me, are a big advantage, all the supers are of and the poly roofs are on (unless your on a brood and a half system) but even then, if your using wooden supers, put that under the poly brood chamber and that coupled with the roof will keep in a lot of heat. Or if your on double brood, just keep the poly on top to conserve heat.

Im really interested to see how mine get on this winter, all but 1 or 2 will be in poly's

coley

brianmc wrote: »

They'll get there I reckon. Once the new queen in the split picks up her pace they'll want to move honey out of the brood box and they'll hit the super.

I thought this would be the case too, but it is the new queen's ladies are filling out the supers faster.
I think I may have been a bit late getting the second super on the parent hive and its become a bit honey bound - I saw uncapped nectar interspersed with sealed brood.

-Coley.

SC Kevin

coley wrote: »

I thought this would be the case too, but it is the new queen's ladies are filling out the supers faster.
I think I may have been a bit late getting the second super on the parent hive and its become a bit honey bound - I saw uncapped nectar interspersed with sealed brood.

-Coley.

as brianmc has said, they will start to move it up once the queen is laying properly, how old is she?

I gave one of my hives a super a few weeks back just in case they needed it, they havent touched it, mainly because they went queen less and waiting for the new queen to start laying, like you, they filled the brood chamber with honey, checked today and the super is fully drawn and they have already started filling it cause the new queen started laying in the last few days

SC Kevin

as promised...

here is a frame from one of my hives, its not to bad. I couldnt get a few pics of better, fully drawn ones cause the bees in that particular hive werent behaving today and i wasnt about to start taking pics after getting stung a few times.

Still, im happy with this hive, there is about 45 lbs of honey in the super so far

conor t

solargain wrote: »

If you move over to poly nationals you will find the brood box in the height of the season too small for the queen. The poly brood box has no cold wall hence the queens lays across all frames. Therefore there are 25% more bees in the brood box comparing like for like with the equivalent timber box. Donegal bees stocks langstroth frames etc , they are becoming a bit more popular. For anybody starting out in my opinion its the way to go , the frames are 1/2 the price of the national ones & when you decide to fork on on extractors etc you have a far more competitive market with langstroth being used internationally. I have sold a few langstroth nucs this year for the first time but at any stage I would only ever have one or two nucs to sell in any case.

My bees happily lay right to the wall in timber langstroths, bought a few Poly's at the start of year and haven't seen a difference between yet.
All hives have at least two deeps on with some just about ready for third/ fourth

coley

SC Kevin wrote: »

as brianmc has said, they will start to move it up once the queen is laying properly, how old is she?

She is only last years.
I'll see how things are progressing over the weekend.

-Coley.

SC Kevin

coley wrote: »

She is only last years.
I'll see how things are progressing over the weekend.

-Coley.

How did you get on Coley?

I had one from last year as well. A really good year for mating but some times, for what ever reason, they just dont work out. I had to transfer her to a nuc in March/April this year they were that depleted of bees, I only last week put her in to a brood chamber it took that long for her to build up. After checking some of my Apideas today, i had a few newly mated Queens, so the old one has now been replaced.

And i can safely say that supers are filling up! :D:D:D

coley

Not much in the way of progress, hive no.2 still tipping away - 2nd super at about 50%
hive no.1 may be queenless - can't find her or eggs/brood.

-Coley.

brianmc

coley wrote: »

Not much in the way of progress, hive no.2 still tipping away - 2nd super at about 50%
hive no.1 may be queenless - can't find her or eggs/brood.

-Coley.

Hive number 1 is the hive with a lot of stores in the brood box? That would fit with queenlessness.

Use a test frame of eggs from hive 2?

coley

Correct on the stores in the brood box for no.1.
Will try with a frame of eggs from no.2

thanks,
-Coley.