Messi worlds best player?

samantha fortune

I think messi is a great player but i personally think he has drop of form and isn't number one. He had a bad season and i dont think he deserved the golden ball in the world cup i think james rodriquez or Roben should have got it but just my opinion.

Does anyone else think he needs to stop being called worlds best player as i think its gone to his head and he has dropped of form.

glued

He is the best player in the world but he's arguably had only 2-3 good games for Argentina and his performances since his hat trick against Switzerland have been massively overrated. However, what will keep him down the rankings for me is that he is not a good team player. He's a fantastic individual but his performances in the last 12 months have been overrated. Bar his excellent contribution of four goals he was average for Argentina from general play, this is a team that has been 100% set up around him and the players he wants in that side.

He's a player that let's his head slip down too much and is a massive prima donna. He doesn't get the same abuse as Ronaldo because he is slightly more subtle about it.

He seems to be one of few players that has set such massive standards for himself yet constantly draws praise no mater his contribution.

samantha fortune

yes i think he trys to do most of it on his own even tho he has great players around him. I think he has got to big headed lately just a feeling i get of him.

PS. He really annoys me in that head and shoulders ad

IrishIrish

samantha fortune wrote: »

I think messi is a great player but i personally think he has drop of form and isn't number one. He had a bad season and i dont think he deserved the golden ball in the world cup i think james rodriquez or Roben should have got it but just my opinion.

Does anyone else think he needs to stop being called worlds best player as i think its gone to his head and he has dropped of form.

41 goals in 46 club games. Terrible season.

If this was his first ever season people would be going crazy about how good he is. He scores amazing goals every other game and people don't care anymore because its just expected from him now. He's only had a 'bad season' in comparison to his own amazingly high standards.

bucketybuck

Even in a bad year Messi and Ronaldo are still an order of magnitude better than any other player out there. Its not even a discussion.

The only time either can be called "not the best" is in relation to each other or in a discussion about the greatest of all time.

samantha fortune

All competiotions

Messi
46 Apps
14 Assists
41 Goals
Ronaldo
51 Goals
15 Assists
47 Apps

- La Liga -

Messi
31 Apps
11 Assists
28 Goals

Ronaldo
31 Goals
9 Assists
30 Apps

- Champions League -

Messi
7 Apps
0 Assists
8 Goals

Ronald
17 Goals
5 Assists
11 Apps

- Other Cups - (Copa Del Rey, Spanish Super Cup, World Club Cup)

Messi
8 Apps
3 Assists
5 Goals

Ronaldo
3 Goals
1 Assists
6

samantha fortune

Ronaldo had a much better season so should he not be worlds best player he has been better for a while now too.

I think if messi was in a different league like the Premier League he would do good but nowere near as good as he does in la liga

cournioni

The thing that annoyed me the most about the game yesterday and the world cup in general was the amount of fans, pundits and commentators hoping that Argentina would win the World Cup for Messi.

If the guy isn't up to winning it himself then he doesn't deserve it. Simple as. Mascherano was Argentina's best player in the world cup, but I would have given the player of the tournament to Rodriguez, Muller or Robben.

IrishIrish

IrishIrish wrote: »

41 goals in 46 club games. Terrible season.

If this was his first ever season people would be going crazy about how good he is. He scores amazing goals every other game and people don't care anymore because its just expected from him now. He's only had a 'bad season' in comparison to his own amazingly high standards.

The OP is talking about the world cup tournament not the season though, he hadn't done anything for Argentina since the group stages, in the semi final he only had one touch of the ball in the first half......how can he be player of the tournament its a joke!

cournioni

In my opinion:

If you put Messi into a team like Manchester United, he wouldn't be as good as he is at Barcelona. If you put Messi into a team like Portugal, he wouldn't be as good as he is with Argentina.

Ronaldo at Real Madrid is better than Messi is.

samantha fortune

Deleted User wrote: »

The OP is talking about the world cup tournament not the season though, he hadn't done anything for Argentina since the group stages, in the semi final he only had one touch of the ball in the first half......how can he be player of the tournament its a joke!

There were much better players he didn't deserve it.

And he shouldn't be captain either he was useless mascherano should of been captain he was by far a better player and captain in my opinion

A Greedy Algorithm

Andre Schurrle had a great World Cup i think. Hes not the best player in the world but is seriously underrated.

PropJoe10

Messi looks seriously tired to me and looks as if hes carrying the worries of the world on his shoulders, which definitely isnt helping his performances. Thought he had a good world cup though. Argentina wouldn't have gotten to the final without him and Mascherano.

Iused2likebusts

samantha fortune wrote: »

There were much better players he didn't deserve it.

And he shouldn't be captain either he was useless mascherano should of been captain he was by far a better player and captain in my opinion

Did you think this before the semi final or is it a reaction to Mascheranos block against holland and good semi final and final performance and messi having two below par performances.

Ulysses Gaze

In my opinion, Messi doesn't look like he enjoys playing for Argentina. Never really has. Sporadically he has done it for Argentina but he's never brought his club form to the National side unlike say Batistuta, Crespo or Maradona who did on a consistent basis. It is not even just at this WC where he's not turned up at crucial points. At the last Copa America he disappeared as well. And that was in Argentina back in 2011 when he SHOULD have been flying.

I don't think he has the same level of passion for playing for his country as Mascherano, Zabaleta or others In that Argentinian squad.

I also think the Captaincy is weighing him down. He should never have been made Captain. He's not a natural enough leader.

He is brilliant in a brilliant Barcelona team, and his form in league and CL over the last few years have been breathtaking at times and when he is fully fit he is the best player in the World.

But the true great players, Maradona, Pele, Zidane, Ronaldo did it for both club and country consistently.

EuropeanSon

He got 4 man of the match awards in 7 games. Sure, he wasn't the best player at the tournament, but he was very good. People just seem to jump on whatever media bandwagon pulls up.

speedboatchase

Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

Morzadec

He still is the best and at the moment will still be remembered as the best of his generation.

There's a little bit of time for that to change - obviously Ronaldo is at his heels, and another Balon d'Or win for him would have us considering the question again.

If Suarez can reproduce the season he's just had at Barcelona, in the Champions League too, then he could possibly enter the argument too.

But Messi's so-called 'drop' has been nowhere near as bad as many have made out and he's still been pretty incredible if we were to judge him by any normal standard these last couple of years.

He's the best player I have witnessed play football in my life, still. It's hard to put him up against other greats who I have only ever seen the highlight reels of, but for me Maradona is the greatest of all time.

But some of Messi's records at club level are probably the most impressive we've ever seen. It'll take something for him not to be remembered as the greatest player of the first 20 years of this century

Fudge You

speedboatchase wrote: »

Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

Well he did have a terrible world cup in fairness. And as captain of his country... He never showed leadership qualities either.
After the hammering by Germany (which can happen in fairness). Against Ghana and USA, he did not play well. Especially against USA, I thought he was awful, but his cross for the equaliser was special.
He was so childish in that game, never stopped moaning. It was all about him, even though his country was on the verge of going home.
And the "Portugal are rubbish" argument doesnt sit with me. They had a squad good enough to get out of a group with Ghana and USA. He didnt play well.

Smithwicks Man

EuropeanSon wrote: »

He got 4 man of the match awards in 7 games. Sure, he wasn't the best player at the tournament, but he was very good. People just seem to jump on whatever media bandwagon pulls up.

When the MOTM awards are decided by a twitter vote they hold very little weight to be fair.


Don't personally think Messi had a very good tournament. He played well and showed flashes of brilliance but to award him the Golden Ball is bemusing.

He was very poor for the opening hour against Bosnia but scored a good goal and improved his performance from there. Also scored a brilliant 90th minute winner against Iran after a reasonably good display. Two first half goals against Nigeria capped off his best display in the tournament and 4 goals after the group is very good going.

He followed this up with 2 reasonably good (not great) displays against Switzerland and Belgium if I'm not mistaken? Can't fully remember how well he played against the Swiss but as far as I can recall he was good enough.

The quarter final is where his good performances finished though. Was anonymous against Holland and nowhere to be seen in the final. If it was any other top player they would've been heavily criticized for those two performances yet Messi is handed the Golden Ball.

It seems as though people can't say he had a bad game. Higuain was slated for missing his 1v1 last night but Messi missed an equally good chance at the start of the second half and there wasn't not a word about it?

Top player but he didn't have a great tournament and didn't deserve the golden Ball imo.



Also, this thing of determining the best player in the world "at the minute" is silly. What defines at the minute? Is it the player's overall performance in the last 3 months? The last 3 weeks? Their last game?

The Ballon d'Or is what is used to determine the best player in the world and is usually on the money. Ronaldo is the current holder. Ronaldo had a much better season than Messi last season and indeed over the last 18 months he has performed to a higher standard. He didn't do it at the WC but was injured going into it and extenuating circumstances didn't help.

Ronaldo is the best player in the world "at the minute" imo.

speedboatchase

speedboatchase wrote: »

Ronaldo is the best player in the world.

And we're off!


Oh no he's not

Fudge You

samantha fortune wrote: »

PS. He really annoys me in that head and shoulders ad

The hate towards Messi on the soccer forum is getting ridiculous at this stage.

I think we all agree that he wasnt the best player at the world cup. But he still played well in most of the 7 games, and I thought he was good in the final.

Too Tough To Die

He's the GOAT. i fear his best days are behind him already but he'll still be fascinating to watch. Has the class to adapt when his body slows down.

LuckyLloyd

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

He's the GOAT. i fear his best days are behind him already but he'll still be fascinating to watch. Has the class to adapt when his body slows down.

Nope:



inability to get it done on the biggest stage of all will count against him when it's all stacked up over the decades to come.

Hitchens

The man Argentina needed to have in that Final - as well as Messi - was Di Maria!

Jesus Wept

suarez

Too Tough To Die

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope:



inability to get it done on the biggest stage of all will count against him when it's all stacked up over the decades to come.

The irony is Messi actually played better in this final than Maradona did in either of his. It often comes down to fine margins and luck in those finals. If Higuin or Palacio could hit a donkeys arse the narrative would be completely different.

The best way to judge the greatest is on sustained high levels of performance over long periods of time. It's why Federer is regarded by most as the GOAT despite his losing record against Nadal. He has won more and has been at the top for longer.

PhlegmyMoses

inability to get it done on the biggest stage of all will count against him when it's all stacked up over the decades to come.

He has done it at the biggest stage.

Champions League is where it's at these days. World Cup is a great comp to win but the quality isn't as high as in the CL.

Maradona was phenomenonal. He really did drag Argentina to that win.

Even more remarkable was what he did at Napoli.

bucketybuck

Morzadec wrote: »

If Suarez can reproduce the season he's just had at Barcelona, in the Champions League too, then he could possibly enter the argument too.

I'm always bemused that some people think Suarez is anywhere close to Messi and Ronaldo, its actually insulting to the pair of them. There they are, destroying every goal record in sight for 5/6 years, then one good season for Liverpool and suddenly Suarez is "in the argument". He ain't even in the room never mind in the argument.

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

He's the GOAT.

He looked more like a billy goat than the GOAT on Sunday.

Too Tough To Die

rarnes1 wrote: »

Maradona was phenomenonal. He really did drag Argentina to that win.

Even more remarkable was what he did at Napoli.

Both remarkable, both over hyped.

Too Tough To Die

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Both remarkable, both over hyped.

Lol, yeah overhyped.

Too Tough To Die

rarnes1 wrote: »

Lol, yeah overhyped.

Yeah, haha.

Too Tough To Die

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yeah, haha.

Ho Ho hee hee

Richard Hillman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nope:



inability to get it done on the biggest stage of all will count against him when it's all stacked up over the decades to come.

A proven drugs cheat. That Armstrong fella was a decent cyclist.

Rayne Wooney

The World Cup is the biggest spectacle rather than the biggest stage quality wise IMO, Neymar will probably beat both Pele's and Brazilian Ronaldo's scoring stat but hasn't got the players of 02 or 1970 around him to win a World Cup.


Messi and C Ronaldo will go down as the greatest when they finish up IMO, Ronaldo more impressive for me at this particular moment in time.

dirtyden

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

The irony is Messi actually played better in this final than Maradona did in either of his. It often comes down to fine margins and luck in those finals. If Higuin or Palacio could hit a donkeys arse the narrative would be completely different.

The best way to judge the greatest is on sustained high levels of performance over long periods of time. It's why Federer is regarded by most as the GOAT despite his losing record against Nadal. He has won more and has been at the top for longer.

Maradona was quality in the 1986 final. To say Messi played better yesterday is simply wrong, he was involved in all 3 goals playing an mazing pass for the last eventhough he was to all intents being double marked for most of the game (the West Germans sacrificed Matthaus to sit on Maradona for the game). Messi just looked out on his feet for most of the semi final and final which is a pity but I think physically either through a niggling injury or tiredness he was nowhere near 100% towards the end of the world cup.

bucketybuck

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A proven drugs cheat.

The proven drugs cheat against the suspected drugs cheat. What a contest.

thebaz

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Both remarkable, both over hyped.

how so ??

in all my years watching the game I have never seen one individual have such an impact for club and country success as Diego Maradona - from 81 - 87 he was sensational .
Sadly , Messi has only really achieved at club level , but has not achieved what Maradonna did in '86 , even the team Pele played in was world class.

AdamD

Have read numerous articles recently about how Maradona 'dragging Argentina' to the World Cup has been vastly over exaggerated. I'm not old enough to have seen it but it sounds awfully like the dismissal of Ronaldo and Messi's team mates in this tournament. Robben had a worse team around him than either of them and did far more carrying, not that it makes him a better player, certain players are just more capable without world class team mates.

LuckyLloyd

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He has done it at the biggest stage.

Champions League is where it's at these days. World Cup is a great comp to win but the quality isn't as high as in the CL.

The pressure at the business end of a World Cup far exceeds anything the club game has to offer. It takes a whole lot more to produce your best when the entire weight of a nation rests on your shoulders. Barcelona is a big club, but it would never have 40m people invested at one time in one of its games.

I don't think there has ever been a team in the history of the game under as much pressure as Brazil were at this tournament. The World Cup just means more.

Iused2likebusts

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm always bemused that some people think Suarez is anywhere close to Messi and Ronaldo, its actually insulting to the pair of them. There they are, destroying every goal record in sight for 5/6 years, then one good season for Liverpool and suddenly Suarez is "in the argument". He ain't even in the room never mind in the argument.

.

Yet your prepared to judge Messi on a one month world cup campaign and in particular his performance in one game. Suarez has a long way to go to get near ronaldo and messi that's not in question but there seems to be a lot of posters unable to recognise suarez as a great player as he needs to do it for years and years to come but at the same time dismiss Messi for having a dip in form.

ooPabsoo

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The World Cup is the biggest spectacle rather than the biggest stage quality wise IMO, Neymar will probably beat both Pele's and Brazilian Ronaldo's scoring stat but hasn't got the players of 02 or 1970 around him to win a World Cup.


Messi and C Ronaldo will go down as the greatest when they finish up IMO, Ronaldo more impressive for me at this particular moment in time.

Settle down there Kenny :P

SharpshooterTom

Messi for me is already one of the best, and certainly will finish in the top 5, probably along side Maradona and Pele.

The unique thing about this sport is that their is no official GOAT, which if I'm being honest I quite like. Its not like tennis where its Roger Federer or golf where its Jack Nicklaus, defined by major wins. Its much harder to be measured in this sport.

So for me, if Messi wants to be the absolute GOAT of all GOATs, he will have to win the World Cup. Its so hard to have a GOAT in this sport, where we've never really had one in the past 30 years, that for Messi to be considered to absolute king of this sport, he will need to have a faultless career. You basically need at least 75-80% of the public to be in agreement with the decision of who is GOAT, that for Messi to have that, he has to win the WC, otherwise it will be a used as stick to beat him and he'll up finishing as one of the GOAT's, not the GOAT. A man with a great club career who failed (relatively speaking) at the international scene. Sorry but its true.

bucketybuck

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Yet your prepared to judge Messi on a one month world cup campaign and in particular his performance in one game.

I have been entirely consistent and visible in recognising Messi as being one of the greatest ever, and I have also made it very clear that when judging him after this world cup it is in the context of people saying he is the greatest of all time.

His achievements as a whole easily make him one of the greatest ever, but if he wanted to be the absolute best player of all time then he has to be judged against Maradona and this world cup is relevant to that discussion.

Oh and it wasn't his performance in one game, he was underwhelming the entire world cup and a freekick against mighty Iran doesn't change that. If he wanted to be the GOAT he needed to step up when it mattered on the world stage and he simply did not do it.

Matt_Trakker

Messi's a mighty player.

Sabella played a team and tactics that he felt would win the WC and he nearly did it in fairness. But parking the bus doesn't particularly suit Messi so for the entire WC he was strolling around with a face on him like a smacked arse.

Saw a stat that Manuel Neuer completed more passes than Messi in the tournament. The only person to cover less distance than Messi was Brazil's Fred.

There's certainly been a change in Messi over the past few years. Since Pep left Barca I think. He's just become a bit of a miserably guts. Behind the scenes he's supposed to lose the rag with players when he's not given the ball.

I dunno, maybe he's just fallen out of love with football and it's just a job, a high-paying one, for him now.

Maybe he needs a change. With Suarez going there that might unsettle him. There have been plenty of rumours over the last 2 seasons regarding his happiness at Barca, maybe we'll see him moving to take on a new challenge in a season or two.

Iused2likebusts

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have been entirely consistent and visible in recognising Messi as being one of the greatest ever, and I have also made it very clear that when judging him after this world cup it is in the context of people saying he is the greatest of all time.

His achievements as a whole easily make him one of the greatest ever, but if he wanted to be the absolute best player of all time then he has to be judged against Maradona and this world cup is relevant to that discussion.

Oh and it wasn't his performance in one game, he was underwhelming the entire world cup and a freekick against mighty Iran doesn't change that. If he wanted to be the GOAT he needed to step up when it mattered on the world stage and he simply did not do it.

That's fair enough I wouldn't put as much scope on the need for him to win a world cup or have an amazing tournament as yourself though. Maradona had a couple of disappointing world cups also. It's a pretty impossible argument to decide on anyway as hardly anybody on here has seen Pele Maradona and messi a sufficient amount of times to be able to give a reliable opinion.

Too Tough To Die

thebaz wrote: »

how so ??

in all my years watching the game I have never seen one individual have such an impact for club and country success as Diego Maradona - from 81 - 87 he was sensational .
Sadly , Messi has only really achieved at club level , but has not achieved what Maradonna did in '86 , even the team Pele played in was world class.

Over hyped purely because of the ridiculous extent to which the ability of his team mates is played down. Still remarkable, just not as remarkable as some would have you believe.

Irishcrx

Something doesn't seem right with Messi and hasn't for the past season/season and a half. Maybe it's the ammount of football he's played up to now , top level with a lot of pressure on him for a long long time , he also alost constantly has 2/3 players marking him almost every game as well. There's the getting sick on the pitch all the time , his head always seems to be going down.

I think he is physically and mentally drained tbh and needs a long rest. If I was Barca now I'd be sending him on a long holiday to recover and join back up with the squad much later in the summer , he needs some time to recover, maybe he also needs a change of scenery from Barca a new challenge or something. He is an amazing player there is no doubt about that but he hasn't been the same world beater he once was one of the best in the world yes but at the moment for me Ronaldo is the best right now.

thebaz

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Over hyped purely because of the ridiculous extent to which the ability of his team mates is played down. Still remarkable, just not as remarkable as some would have you believe.

sure his team mates were good , at both club &country , but without Maradonna I do not believe Napoli would have won Serie A or Argentina won the '86 World Cup - he was that good , the way he ripped Belgium & England apart , regardless of that hand of God , it even fooled me , it was only on replay

PhlegmyMoses

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The pressure at the business end of a World Cup far exceeds anything the club game has to offer. It takes a whole lot more to produce your best when the entire weight of a nation rests on your shoulders. Barcelona is a big club, but it would never have 40m people invested at one time in one of its games.

I don't think there has ever been a team in the history of the game under as much pressure as Brazil were at this tournament. The World Cup just means more.

You're only looking at it from one angle. Pressure is only one aspect of sport and it wasn't pressure that stopped Messi from playing his best. In fact, you mentioning the immense pressure Brazil were under aids my point; Neymar played very well under such pressure but not so well for Barca, therefore, better than Messi? Of course not. Also, Maradona was a relative failure at a big European club. Pressure got to him?

At the business end of the CL, you are playing teams put together from all the best players at an international tournament, who have spent a minimum of 10 months together as a team being coached by one of the World's best managers. You are playing, for the most part, well oiled machines with few weak areas. This is when the elite cone to the fore and make a difference. Football is very different to when El Diego won in 86.