***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I think it's a bit mad myself to base the charge on the number of people in the house and give so called free allowances to everyone. Much too much administration. But if that is the system then establishing who is living at the address by PPS numbers is logical.

It should just be a charge for whatever is on the meter or where there is no meter a charge linked to the property tax. Just my opinion of course but that's how it is done in England for instance.

Here's a mad idea.

Irish Water could check with the Department of Social protection as to how many children are registered to an address, they should have them details already of they're paying child protection to the house.

I get your point on how England charges for its water, but they have a lower rate of vat than us (which was increased here in a response to the abolition of rates, then raised again).

Add to that, the cost per unit here seems to be among the highest in Europe, despite us being one of the wettest countries in Europe.

I have 2 children, I will not be giving the info they request from me to Irish Water. The whole pps number, and what they 'might' do with it is legally questionable.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Here's a mad idea.

Irish Water could check with the Department of Social protection as to how many children are registered to an address, they should have them details already of they're paying child protection to the house.

I get your point on how England charges for its water, but they have a lower rate of vat than us (which was increased here in a response to the abolition of rates, then raised again).

Add to that, the cost per unit here seems to be among the highest in Europe, despite us being one of the wettest countries in Europe.

I have 2 children, I will not be giving the info they request from me to Irish Water. The whole pps number, and what they 'might' do with it is legally questionable.

Are you some sort of solicitor or barrister? What legal questions are you referring to?

You can have as much as you like of that wet water for free, it's in your local river or lake and all you need is a bucket.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Are you some sort of solicitor or barrister?

Yes.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What legal questions are you referring to?

Well under the data protection act, it would seem they're not even entitled to be asking for it, never mind passing it on to a third party.

This is a matter for the Department of Social Protection in the first instance. It is an offence for any person or body to request or hold a record of a PPS number unless they are permitted by law (the Social Welfare Acts) to do so. It is the duty of all bodies to ensure that they are specified in law as being so entitled before they request or hold a record of any person's PPS number.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You can have as much as you like of that wet water for free, it's in your local river or lake and all you need is a bucket.

Brilliant response. Although I notice you ignore the fact I pointed out how we have had 2 vat increases that apparently went towards water. Also the fact that the department of social protection already have details of children in a household, therefore making Irish Water request for details unnecessary.

Why would that be?

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Well under the data protection act, it would seem they're not even entitled to be asking for it, never mind passing it on to a third party.

Make a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/rights/2f.htm&CatID=21&m=r

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Make a complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/rights/2f.htm&CatID=21&m=r

Yeah I have done. Thanks for the heads up though.


I hope a lot more follow suit in refusing to provide the pps number, I see a protest planned is garnering huge momentum on social media.

chasm

Banjo String wrote: »

Yes.


Well under the data protection act, it would seem they're not even entitled to be asking for it, never mind passing it on to a third party.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm



Brilliant response. Although I notice you ignore the fact I pointed out how we have had 2 vat increases that apparently went towards water. Also the fact that the department of social protection already have details of children in a household, therefore making Irish Water request for details unnecessary.

Why would that be?

Why aren't they entitled to ask? The Social Welfare bill passed through the Dail in July which allowed IW to process these details
http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-use-pps-numbers.html

delw

Is Irish Water a private company or a public body?

Ogham

delw wrote: »

Is Irish Water a private company or a public body?

It is a fully state owned private company - if that makes sense.
It is the same type of set up as An Post , ESB , Bus Eireann.

See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/who-owns-irish-water.html

Banjo String

Good news for anyone in County Cavan.

Irish Water seem to have placed you guys outside the jurisdiction.

flutered

chasm wrote: »

Why aren't they entitled to ask? The Social Welfare bill passed through the Dail in July which allowed IW to process these details
http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-to-use-pps-numbers.html

everything about irish water has been rushed thro parliment, it has been hidden away from everything and everyone, it is accountable to no one, or any state body, the only thing that is known about it is, that it has some of the most wastefull officials the tax payers of this country has had to subsidise at its helm.

EunanMac

Did you not have to give your PPS number for the recent home tax anyway ?

Ogham

EunanMac wrote: »

Did you not have to give your PPS number for the recent home tax anyway ?

But that was Revenue - and they are the main users of PPS numbers anyway. People are more unsure about giving it to Irish Water for some reason.

dxhound2005

Ogham wrote: »

But that was Revenue - and they are the main users of PPS numbers anyway. People are more unsure about giving it to Irish Water for some reason.

That reason is that they want to avoid paying out money. They would have no problem giving their PPS number to anyone to claim money.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That reason is that they want to avoid paying out money. They would have no problem giving their PPS number to anyone to claim money .

Yet they don't want to give it to claim for a 'free allowance'.

Go figure.

The whole thing stinks, and after Hogan being caught out lying about his knowledge of the millions of euro spent on consultants, the people are right to be wary of giving their details to a utility company.

Ogham

Revenue used an outside firm to handle maost of the LPT registration etc (Abtran) - no one worried about them getting PPS numbers and all the rest.
I hope that Revenue's data protection policy mentions giving data to third parties working for them.
Abtran are also working for Irish Water - handling a lot of the registration etc - so there's not much difference really .
Just people trying to find anything to moan about that's connected to Irish Water.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Yet they don't want to give it to claim for a 'free allowance'.

Go figure.

The whole thing stinks, and after Hogan being caught out lying about his knowledge of the millions of euro spent on consultants, the people are right to be wary of giving their details to a utility company.

I know you are some sort of barrister or solicitor. Were you one of the "high powered" CAHWT legal team that was supposed to smash the Household Charge? I think these people refusing to supply PPS numbers are just a new version of the Don't Register Don't pay brigade.

Banjo String

Ogham wrote: »

Revenue used an outside firm to handle maost of the LPT registration etc (Abtran) - no one worried about them getting PPS numbers and all the rest.
I hope that Revenue's data protection policy mentions giving data to third parties working for them.
Abtran are also working for Irish Water - handling a lot of the registration etc - so there's not much difference really .
Just people trying to find anything to moan about that's connected to Irish Water.

I know when I started work here, the first thing I needed to get Revenue of i wanted to be taxed properly through PAYE was a pps number.

Tax payers prob don't envisage Revenue being sold off some day either.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I know you are some sort of barrister or solicitor. Were you one of the "high powered" CAHWT legal team that was supposed to smash the Household Charge? I think these people refusing to supply PPS numbers are just a new version of the Don't Register Don't pay brigade.

No.

323

Banjo String wrote: »

Yes.


Well under the data protection act, it would seem they're not even entitled to be asking for it, never mind passing it on to a third party.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Use-of-PPSN/1247.htm



Brilliant response. Although I notice you ignore the fact I pointed out how we have had 2 vat increases that apparently went towards water. Also the fact that the department of social protection already have details of children in a household, therefore making Irish Water request for details unnecessary.

Why would that be?

+1


Lived abroad for a number of years. Forgot/lost my number, RSI when I left, PPS when I returned.
Was moved from pillar to post around various government offices trying to get someone to give it to me, revenue, welfare till eventually got someone who was authorized to.

Turned out to be someone I have known since childhood, even then still had to come back another day with my passport and birth cert. before I could be given my own PPS number.

The data protection act was mentioned, also the measures being made to try to prevent identity theft/fraud.

Now all of a sudden we are supposed to hand this information over to private company with no accountability whatsoever, very worrying.

Banjo String

Ogham wrote: »

I hope that Revenue's data protection policy mentions giving data to third parties working for them.

Doubtful.

Wouldn't they have just handed it over to IW already if requested?

Ogham wrote: »

Abtran are also working for Irish Water - handling a lot of the registration etc - so there's not much difference really .
Just people trying to find anything to moan about that's connected to Irish Water.

Yeah that's it. Nail on head.

EunanMac

Irish water are doing what they are supposed to be doing
Taking the Piss
So stop complaining

AlanS181824

I got one of those "filly outy" forms from them a few days ago, so it has begun.

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Yet they don't want to give it to claim for a 'free allowance'.

Go figure.

The whole thing stinks, and after Hogan being caught out lying about his knowledge of the millions of euro spent on consultants, the people are right to be wary of giving their details to a utility company.

Banjo a simple solution for you is to not give them your PPS Number don't get any allowances and pay the full amount, that way this whole issue can be avoided. The same goes for anyone else that doesn't wish to give them PPS numbers simply don't do it, couldn't be easier.

You seem to quote the Data Protection Act a bit yet have no issues with Irish Water getting your PPS Number from the Department of Social Protection which to me would probably be a clear and blatant breach of your rights under the Data Protection Act. I was under the impression that the act is in place to ensure Data held by agencies can't be shared willy nilly with all and sundry.

So quoting the Data Protection Act and then saying they should get the PPS numbers from the DSP is a bit of a contradiction.

geeksauce

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I know you are some sort of barrister or solicitor. Were you one of the "high powered" CAHWT legal team that was supposed to smash the Household Charge? I think these people refusing to supply PPS numbers are just a new version of the Don't Register Don't pay brigade.

Forgot about the CAHWT are they still going? What a waste of time that was anyway, I am sure there is a similar group trolling Social Media trying to get support for a good aul protest against the Water Charges. Wonder when they will learn that the majority of people either don't care enough to protest or simply don't have the time to protest given the fact they have jobs and other commitments etc.

Barely There

geeksauce wrote: »

Banjo a simple solution for you is to not give them your PPS Number don't get any allowances and pay the full amount, that way this whole issue can be avoided.

No, no, no, you seem to be getting very confused.

He only believes in taking a principled stand where the situation requires him to pay less tax, not more.

Ogham

Banjo String wrote: »

Doubtful.

Wouldn't they have just handed it over to IW already if requested?

Revenue can only use a PPSN given for LPT purposes for LPT purposes . Abtran were dealing with LPT enquiries so they could use them - but passing it to Irish Water for use by them would not be allowed under data protection. That's why IW have to ask for it.

What is it that you are worried will happen by giving IW a PPSN - anymore than giving it to Revenue or the PTRB if you are a tenant or the HSE or the CAO if you are/were a student ?

geeksauce

Barely There wrote: »

No, no, no, you seem to be getting very confused.

He only believes in taking a principled stand where the situation requires him to pay less tax, not more.

I am confused then it seems, he wants to pay less tax but doesn't want to avail of free allowances that will result in him paying less taxes???

That is a puzzler.

niamh.foley

Just got my Application pack in the post.

Now should i fill it out and leave my PPS Number blank or should i inc it or should i just sent it back with like some people are doing.

Also there is not a hope in hell they are getting my Bank Details i'll be happy to pay in the post office if i have to..

Now back to filling my 10ltr bottles of Water and storing them.

geeksauce

niamh.foley wrote: »

Now should i fill it out and leave my PPS Number blank or should i inc it or should i just sent it back with like some people are doing.

You do what you think is best, no point asking others what you should do.

Also there is not a hope in hell they are getting my Bank Details i'll be happy to pay in the post office if i have to..

You will have to pay so the post office should suffice.

Now back to filling my 10ltr bottles of Water and storing them.

Wonder why they are bringing in charges, is it something to do with wastage etc.

niamh.foley

geeksauce wrote: »

Wonder why they are bringing in charges, is it something to do with wastage etc.

Wastage maybe if they didnt sign off on 180million on some semi-private company starting up. and spent that money upgrading the Water Systems around the Country we wouldnt have so many water leaks around the country..

this chrage has nothing to do with wastage it all about getting more money off people just like the Communication tax that is coming in all cos RTE want more money.

geeksauce

niamh.foley wrote: »

Wastage maybe if they didnt sign off on 180million on some semi-private company starting up. and spent that money upgrading the Water Systems around the Country we wouldnt have so many water leaks around the country..

this chrage has nothing to do with wastage it all about getting more money off people just like the Communication tax that is coming in all cos RTE want more money.

No I would say that by charging people for water there will definitely be a reduction in the water being wasted each day by everyone, so this charge has an awful lot to do with the prevention of wastage of water whether that is a direct or indirect result.

And as for the start up costs they will soon be recouped when the money starts coming back to Irish Water from Joe Public so I wouldn't worry too much about the 180 million or whatever the final bill will be.