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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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    #3002
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Well, show your dissatisfaction on the... 11.10.14 national demonstration on next Saturday 2:00pm at the Garden Of Remembrance Parnell square Dublin 1.

    In all fairness, if folk don't bother to go then you should not be complaining about it. Make a stand in a peaceful and professional way regarding this issue. I just hope that folk go out in their hundreds of thousands in a peaceful way in a pure democratic fashion.


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    #3003
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Too complicated for me. Better to contact IW and certainly agree the arrangement with the landlord. Could be similar to ESB.

    ESB have no right to your PPS no either, do not contact IW


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    #3004
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hju6 wrote: »
    ESB have no right to your PPS no either, do not contact IW

    Landlord will have to get PPS number by law to register the tenancy.


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    #3005
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Landlord will have to get PPS number by law to register the tenancy.

    And


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    #3006
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    hju6 wrote: »
    And

    They won't be paying Water charges for you.


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    #3007
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Landlord will have to get PPS number by law to register the tenancy.

    So then the landlord can share your PPS no with anybody then ,

    Are you saying a landlord can share a persons PPS no with any one who asks for it?


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    #3008
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    papu wrote: »
    They won't be paying Water charges for you.

    Who won't,?


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    #3009
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    hju6 wrote: »
    Who won't,?

    The Landlord.

    I imagine they won't give 2 sh*tes about your "will" to "protest" , and will easy find a tenant who will pay for their water.


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    #3010
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hju6 wrote: »
    So then the landlord can share your PPS no with anybody then ,

    Are you saying a landlord can share a persons PPS no with any one who asks for it?

    This was done to death in the thread before. The original title of the thread was IW will be asking for your PPS number.

    I never said anything about what anyone could do with your PPS numbers. But there are tens of thousands of individuals working for the dozens of entities which are authorised to request PPS numbers. Safest thing is not to give it to anyone ever.


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    #3011
    lacco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭lacco


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Well then it hardly matters either way does it? A restoration of social justice is not mutually exclusive with getting out of hock. People do not accept the way its being done, IW is a focus of that fury, so our representatives must go to europe and represent that view. If this Govt wont, then eventually some Govt will, perhaps not the sort of Govt the EU will be fond of, but that will be their own doing.

    The recovery is happening not because of EU, but in spite of it, if we have to do more on our own then that can only be a good thing based on how we've been treated so far.

    Brillant post, thank you.
    That last sentence is what people forget 'the recovery is happening not because of EU, but in spite of it...'


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    #3012
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    papu wrote: »
    The Landlord.

    I imagine they won't give 2 sh*tes about your "will" to "protest" , and will easy find a tenant who will pay for their water.

    I don't have a landlord,

    I have no "will" to protest

    You mistake me for another,

    Arrogant wanker


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    #3013
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    lacco wrote: »
    Brillant post, thank you.
    That last sentence is what people forget 'the recovery is happening not because of EU, but in spite of it...'

    But it doesn't define what social justice is. Is it socially unjust for the citizens in Germany and Spain to pay water charges?


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    #3014
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    This was done to death in the thread before. The original title of the thread was IW will be asking for your PPS number.

    I never said anything about what anyone could do with your PPS numbers. But there are tens of thousands of individuals working for the dozens of entities which are authorised to request PPS numbers. Safest thing is not to give it to anyone ever.

    Including IW ?


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    #3015
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hju6 wrote: »
    Including IW ?

    On security grounds I can't see that they are any more vulnerable to a rogue employee or criminal hackers than say the Dept of Social and Family Affairs.


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    #3016
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,104 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    But it doesn't define what social justice is. Is it socially unjust for the citizens in Germany and Spain to pay water charges?

    Nope. Its not unfair for us to pay them either, its the level of overall burden, the origin of the impetus for the charges and the wasteful mechanism that is being introduced to bring them about that people have a problem with, at least I do.

    Water was always paid for -through general taxation. Reduce my tax burden by €400 a year or so and let me create my own efficiencies in water use, then we'll talk about charges being fair.


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    #3017
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    On security grounds I can't see that they are any more vulnerable to a rogue employee or criminal hackers than say the Dept of Social and Family Affairs.

    PM me yours


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    #3018
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Nope. Its not unfair for us to pay them either, its the level of overall burden, the origin of the impetus for the charges and the wasteful mechanism that is being introduced to bring them about that people have a problem with, at least I do.

    Water was always paid for -through general taxation. Reduce my tax burden by €400 a year or so and let me create my own efficiencies in water use, then we'll talk about charges being fair.

    If you got that concession every other taxpayer would have to get the same. Raising our borrowing requirement. There is a deficit between income and expenditure. If you can prove that water is being paid for only from taxes and not partly or fully from borrowings then some other items like say Child Benefit have to be coming out of borrowings.


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    #3019
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    hju6 wrote: »
    PM me yours

    PM sent.


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    #3020
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    HJU6, you have a pps number to put on the form now


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    #3021
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    HJU6, you have a pps number to put on the form now

    I didn't say what was in the PM.


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    #3022
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,104 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If you got that concession every other taxpayer would have to get the same. Raising our borrowing requirement. There is a deficit between income and expenditure. If you can prove that water is being paid for only from taxes and not partly or fully from borrowings then some other items like say Child Benefit have to be coming out of borrowings.

    Yes I think everyone deserves it.

    The exchequer has always been a combination of taxes and borrowings. In fluctuating economic times borrowing at a low cost contributes more to growth than taking it directly off already overburdened taxpayers. Its a pointless debate anyway, as whatever combination of revenue is only being used to repay an inequitable debt forced wrongly on the state, and the water charges if paid have by the admission of the commissioner for energy regulation been calculated on the basis of what it would cost to RUN Irish Water, not for the water itself! Ergo, irish waters only basis of existence is to service itself. It is not needed and should be bankrupted.


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    #3023
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Yes I think everyone deserves it.

    The exchequer has always been a combination of taxes and borrowings. In fluctuating economic times borrowing at a low cost contributes more to growth than taking it directly off already overburdened taxpayers. Its a pointless debate anyway, as whatever combination of revenue is only being used to repay an inequitable debt forced wrongly on the state, and the water charges if paid have by the admission of the commissioner for energy regulation been calculated on the basis of what it would cost to RUN Irish Water, not for the water itself! Ergo, irish waters only basis of existence is to service itself. It is not needed and should be bankrupted.

    What about property tax and bin charges? Any sound economic reason for having those? Along with water they were the chief items transferred from domestic rates to general taxation in 1977. It has since been recognised by many commentators as being a monumental mistake. The very fact that they have been reintroduced would point to there being a necessary economic basis for their existence unless politicians are just doing it to make themselves unpopular.

    It's not a unique or untried model. Most developed countries have similar systems and none ever saw the point in abandoning them to be replaced from essentially VAT and Income Tax. It is a failed experiment which has taken nearly 40 years to unwind but it will put the country on a normal economic footing for the decades ahead. Unless the next government decides to abandon the lot again.


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    #3024
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What about property tax and bin charges? Any sound economic reason for having those? Along with water they were the chief items transferred from domestic rates to general taxation in 1977. It has since been recognised by many commentators as being a monumental mistake. The very fact that they have been reintroduced would point to there being a necessary economic basis for their existence unless politicians are just doing it to make themselves unpopular.

    It's not a unique or untried model. Most developed countries have similar systems and none ever saw the point in abandoning them to be replaced from essentially VAT and Income Tax. It is a failed experiment which has taken nearly 40 years to unwind but it will put the country on a normal economic footing for the decades ahead. Unless the next government decides to abandon the lot again.

    Look, we have been up and down the "other countries have it" road more than the years of paddys day parades. We all know what "other countries" get for there taxes. We also know what we dont get in comparison to the the services or levels of same service that people in these "other countries" recieve for theirs. Factoring in the amount we pay in taxes, charges and levies on income and other bills etc that all go to our government and comparing it to "other countries" id say we are actually being taken for a good ride.


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    #3025
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I didn't say what was in the PM.

    KERSPLATT


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    #3026
    lacco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭lacco


    A piece in the Irish Examiner

    Sorry I can't link.

    Irish Water complaints have been taken away from the remit of the ombudsman and he wasn't consulted.


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    #3027
    Fr. Ned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭Fr. Ned


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Fine, shut it down and reduce expenditure in welfare, education, health and increase taxes to make up our shortfall.

    Absolutely,
    Reduce welfare by 30%, reduce the PS/semi-state pay bill by 30%, bring us in line with most European countries (ones not in a bailout) and streamline the health and education services.
    More efficient services with realistic pay rates in this way would save the country about €10 billion per annum,giving us a budget surplus of approx. €3-€4 billion.

    I completely agree with you for once.


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    #3028
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,023 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    lacco wrote: »
    A piece in the Irish Examiner

    Sorry I can't link.

    Irish Water complaints have been taken away from the remit of the ombudsman and he wasn't consulted.

    You don't want to believe everything you read in the paper. IW was never under the remit of the ombudsman. Because of it's connection with Bord Gais, it is under their regulator the Commission for Energy Regulation, as is the ESB. No need for another quango to get involved. But citizens can always bring any complaints to the ombudsman when all other means have failed.


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    #3029
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,002 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Fr. Ned wrote: »
    Absolutely,
    Reduce welfare by 30%, reduce the PS pay bill by 30%, bring us in line with most European countries (ones not in a bailout) and streamline the health and education services.
    More efficient services with realistic pay rates in this way would save the country about €10 billion per annum,giving us a budget surplus of approx. €3-€4 billion.

    I completely agree with you for once.

    Reduce education spending? Are you kidding me, our Universities are already falling well below where we need them to be, and newsflash companies may say its our workforce that brings them here but its the corporate tax rate nothing more nothing less and our so called "smart economy" is a joke our technology courses are well behind the curve as far as global standards go. And school class sizes are growing not shrinking. Increase efficiency maybe but reducing spending even further in this area is a farcical idea.


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    #3030
    lacco
    Closed Accounts Posts: 61 ✭✭lacco


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You don't want to believe everything you read in the paper. IW was never under the remit of the ombudsman. Because of it's connection with Bord Gais, it is under their regulator the Commission for Energy Regulation, as is the ESB. No need for another quango to get involved. But citizens can always bring any complaints to the ombudsman when all other means have failed.

    Well why would I believe you before I believe him he's the ombudsman for God sake and that he WHAT he said.

    The reason for wanting it back in his remit is because of a conflict of interests, CER sets water prices and now will also investigate complaints from the public re Irish water. How can they be impartial. It stands to reason that they could be open to bias and not impartial.

    Oh and hes he wants bord gais and ESB back in his remit too.


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    #3031
    rubberdiddies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭rubberdiddies


    so i've all but decided not to pay water charges when i get my first bill in January.

    I havent opened the 'application' pack and more than likely wont be sending it back. Effectively I will probably be ignoring any and all communication from Irish Water.

    So, what will they do about it?
    What will they do to me if I don't pay? And what will they do if 30, 40, 50 or 60+% of people refuse to pay?

    Why are people going to pay? Surely if no one pays they cant do a damn thing about it?

    I'm asking the questions because I genuinely don't know what they can actually do, or what they will actually do.


This discussion has been closed.
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