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***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

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    #3572
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    flutered wrote: »
    now ned, are you conceding victory to the paid posters, they become rather happy when dissenting voices are shut up.

    Cue the outcry for solid proof and moderators.


  • Options
    #3573
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    flutered wrote: »
    now ned, are you conceding victory to the paid posters, they become rather happy when dissenting voices are shut up.

    Hey - leave it out. We were due a bonus for getting Ned to drop out of the thread. :)

    He was killing us with his forensic arguments. :pac:


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    #3574
    Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Essien


    flutered wrote: »
    now ned, are you conceding victory to the paid posters, they become rather happy when dissenting voices are shut up.

    Fine Gaels shill budget must be bigger than Sinn Feins. Unlucky.


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    #3575
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MadYaker wrote: »
    I think were getting off fairly lightly here. My parents spend half the year in France and if they lived there full time they'd be paying about 100 quid a month for water, and that's just for 2 of them.

    Are there any other countries in Europe apart from Ireland where you don't pay for water? Genuine question.


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    #3576
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    Are there any other countries in Europe apart from Ireland where you don't pay for water? Genuine question.

    We do pay for water. The charges are lumped into the taxes that we pay.


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    #3577
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Hijpo wrote: »
    We do pay for water. The charges are lumped into the taxes that we pay.

    With the country still borrowing billions every year just to keep it running the money has to come from somewhere, if it wasnt this water tax then it would have to be something else. Although i do think they should have just brought out a flat tax. How much has been wasted on setting up and running Irish water? They didnt have to go down that route.


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    #3578
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    With the country still borrowing billions every year just to keep it running the money has to come from somewhere, if it wasnt this water tax then it would have to be something else. Although i do think they should have just brought out a flat tax. How much has been wasted on setting up and running Irish water? They didnt have to go down that route.

    The op said what other countries don't pay for water. I was just clarifying that we do pay, that's all.


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    #3579
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Hijpo wrote: »
    The op said what other countries don't pay for water. I was just clarifying that we do pay, that's all.

    Show me the receipt for your last payment. Just to clarify for those who still have difficulty. The water system use to be paid for and run by the councils. It no longer is. Your taxes use to contribute towards it, now they don't. They go elsewhere. So if you don't pay your bill you are not paying for the water you use.


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    #3580
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Show me the receipt for your last payment. Just to clarify for those who still have difficulty. The water system use to be paid for and run by the councils. It no longer is. Your taxes use to contribute towards it, now they don't. They go elsewhere. So if you don't pay your bill you are not paying for the water you use.

    then the economy will benefit from the extra disposable income due to reduced taxes which were increased to pay for water previously.


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    #3581
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The water system use to be paid for and run by the councils. It no longer is.
    How much did it cost?
    Your taxes use to contribute towards it, now they don't. They go elsewhere.
    Where do they go?


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    #3582
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How much did it cost?

    It used to be paid for by the local councils along with waste collections, swimming pools, libraries, roadworks, and all other council activities through RATES (a property tax) until Fianna Fail abolished that as a vote-grabbing measure. Rates went directly to local councils. Then when rates were abolished the government had to fund the local councils, but of course were very stingey in handing out money that would be better kept increasing the salaries of TDs and their pensions. The latest property tax still doesn't go to the local councils.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Where do they go?


    Have you been under a rock for the last 8 years? To bail out the bankers of course! Jeez.




    My question is: how come Irish Water aka O'Brien's Water gets my PPS number? None of the other utility providers have it.


    .


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    #3583
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    MOD

    Mr Ned thread banned

    Give the shill accusations a rest before thread bans and cards come out.

    If someone is trolling, report it, don't drag the thread off topic


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    #3584
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Hijpo wrote: »
    then the economy will benefit from the extra disposable income due to reduced taxes which were increased to pay for water previously.

    Now you're getting it.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How much did it cost?

    Where do they go?

    HSE is overbudget so probably there.


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    #3585
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    It used to be paid for by the local councils along with waste collections, swimming pools, libraries, roadworks, and all other council activities through RATES (a property tax) until Fianna Fail abolished that as a vote-grabbing measure. Rates went directly to local councils. Then when rates were abolished the government had to fund the local councils

    .

    But wasn't VAT, motor tax and others increased? They didn't just decide they were going to to without that income.


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    #3586
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    The water system use to be paid for and run by the councils. It no longer is. Your taxes use to contribute towards it, now they don't. They go elsewhere. So if you don't pay your bill you are not paying for the water you use.

    Note that the 1.2bn cost of water pluis wastewater used to be financed by taxes + deficit borrowing.

    Now from 2015 it will be financed by charges + taxes + deficit borrowings.

    The central Govt will still use taxes to contribute towards the 1.2bn costs, as the water charges don't cover that costs.


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    #3587
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,833 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Now you're getting it.

    When I see a reduction in taxes that benefit middle to low incomes ill believe it.


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    #3588
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Geuze wrote: »
    Note that the 1.2bn cost of water pluis wastewater used to be financed by taxes + deficit borrowing.

    Now from 2015 it will be financed by charges + taxes + deficit borrowings.

    The central Govt will still use taxes to contribute towards the 1.2bn costs, as the water charges don't cover that costs.

    It will be up to Irish Water to create a more efficient and cost effective model that balances with the charges. It won't happen overnight considering the state the network is in.


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    #3589
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    How much did it cost?

    Where do they go?


    Repeatedly, it has been said that the effect of paying water charges means less central Govt spending on water, which means a lower fiscal deficit.

    This has been said over and over.


    Before: Central Govt pays for water by giving grants to councils

    2015 onwards: people pay directly, so central Govt spending falls, so the deficit borrowing falls.

    So, to confirm again and again, water charges are part of an effort to broaden the tax base, and are part of the effort to reduce the massive fiscal deficit.


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    #3590
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Geuze wrote: »
    Repeatedly, it has been said that the effect of paying water charges means less central Govt spending on water, which means a lower fiscal deficit.

    This has been said over and over.


    Before: Central Govt pays for water by giving grants to councils

    2015 onwards: people pay directly, so central Govt spending falls, so the deficit borrowing falls.

    So, to confirm again and again, water charges are part of an effort to broaden the tax base, and are part of the effort to reduce the massive fiscal deficit.

    HOW much did it cost and where will it now GO?
    I'm trying to find that out and I can't.


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    #3591
    Lord Trollington
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Lord Trollington


    If I opt not to pay the water charges, I haven't sent back any forms or signed any agreement what are the possible ramifications?


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    #3592
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Geuze wrote: »
    Repeatedly, it has been said that the effect of paying water charges means less central Govt spending on water, which means a lower fiscal deficit.

    This has been said over and over.


    Before: Central Govt pays for water by giving grants to councils

    2015 onwards: people pay directly, so central Govt spending falls, so the deficit borrowing falls.

    So, to confirm again and again, water charges are part of an effort to broaden the tax base, and are part of the effort to reduce the massive fiscal deficit.

    Way more savings could have been made by just bringing out a flat tax and leaving all of the existing structures the way they were. Instead of the massive waste of money that has gone into creating Irish Water.


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    #3593
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,115 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    It will be up to Irish Water to create a more efficient and cost effective model that balances with the charges. It won't happen overnight considering the state the network is in.

    Which is why they should have repaired it as a stimulus exercise, using effectively no-interest money from European investment funds, before daring to charge ordinary people for a dysfunctional, decrepit and unreliable system.

    IW werent required to do even that, there is a national roads authority idle at the moment with all the skills required for mass civil engineering project management, without this bloody quango hoovering up resources.


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    #3594
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Lord Trollington wrote: »
    If I opt not to pay the water charges, I haven't sent back any forms or signed any agreement what are the possible ramifications?
    By not sending back the forms you simply don't get the 'free' allowances. No problem there except that your bill will be bigger.

    You will get billed and that bill will be enforced in the usual way with all of the usual possible ramifications (court, credit record etc).


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    #3595
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    The easiest way to strangle Irish Water is also the laziest way too.

    Do. Nothing.

    Don't fill in their forms, don't take any notice of their bills.

    Being denied revenue will quickly make them insolvent, and will bring them down.

    The Govt made it too easy. Shouldve just increased taxes, they could have got Revenue to mop up the slops then.


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    #3596
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,002 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    HOW much did it cost and where will it now GO?
    I'm trying to find that out and I can't.

    That's impossible to know due to how our ridiculous giant tax pot system works where everything gets collected in one place and is divied out whereever, there is no relation to where or what tax is collected for and where it is then spent, there's no way to track it either


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    #3597
    arse..biscuits
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭arse..biscuits


    Phoebas wrote: »
    By not sending back the forms you simply don't get the 'free' allowances. No problem there except that your bill will be bigger.

    You will get billed and that bill will be enforced in the usual way with all of the usual possible ramifications (court, credit record etc).


    That's their fear tactics. Seems to be working on you.


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    #3598
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    arse..biscuits wrote: »
    That's their fear tactics. Seems to be working on you.

    Or Phoebas is accurate.

    Unless you can factually counter what he/she said?


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    #3599
    arse..biscuits
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭arse..biscuits


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Or Phoebas is accurate.

    Unless you can factually counter what he/she said?

    What he/she is saying is accurate at the moment.
    Things will change when they realise the sh1t storm they have created.


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    #3600
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    HOW much did it cost and where will it now GO?
    I'm trying to find that out and I can't.


    It costs 1.2bn to run the treatment plants for water and waster water.

    Previously the central Govt gave grants to the 34 councils to cover the cost.

    Now they will give less grants, and instead people will pay direct charges.

    So Govt spending will fall, slightly.

    As a result, the State will borrow less.


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    #3601
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,438 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Way more savings could have been made by just bringing out a flat tax and leaving all of the existing structures the way they were. Instead of the massive waste of money that has gone into creating Irish Water.


    I think you mean increase income taxes instead of metered charges?


This discussion has been closed.
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