***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Oranage2

You'd have to wonder who actually runs the country, there's no way fianna gael would introduce this along with the property tax and still expect to be in power next election.

gladrags

Oranage2 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder who actually runs the country, there's no way fianna gael would introduce this along with the property tax and still expect to be in power next election.

Likeliehood of another coalition must be high.

Rule nothing out.

_Kaiser_

Oranage2 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder who actually runs the country, there's no way fianna gael would introduce this along with the property tax and still expect to be in power next election.

It was a condition of the bailout. That and the fact that Germany gets to see our budget before we do should give you the answer to your question.

Enda and Co are just here to implement these decisions and play with the edges (ie: what's left of our control over our own country). That's not to say they're not incompetent corrupt gombeens like their predecessors - just with added arrogance.

Andy From Sligo

can someone tell me how to get out of the habbit of pulling the chain now seeing as it costs 12cents per pull now or whatever it is lol - for years i have always pulled the chain even after a pee but i realise now i must let the yellow mellow to save money , but sometimes my finger hovers over the dual flush button and i remember and take it away just in time and other times i press it automatically and then feel angry for flushing it afterwards lol :eek:

Wurly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It was a condition of the bailout. That and the fact that Germany gets to see our budget before we do should give you the answer to your question.

Enda and Co are just here to implement these decisions and play with the edges (ie: what's left of our control over our own country). That's not to say they're not incompetent corrupt gombeens like their predecessors - just with added arrogance.

And i'll go one better.

Who runs the country, you ask? Well, as the above poster rightly said, water charges and property tax were a condition of the IMF bailout. Who owns the IMF? The Rothschild Family. They are one of about a dozen families who own over 90% of the world's wealth.

That means they own our government, our land, our natural resources our food... the list goes on.

We assist their wealth in many ways by having such a materialistic lifestyle. We buy big brands owned by these savages. We become so entrenched with hating muslims, islamists and christians, that we don't look to the real problem - the elite.

It's worth tracing back the origins of the money used to fund both sides of every war. You'll find that they all come back to the same pool of elitists. Funding both sides of war. You have to ask why. They get to clear land and claim it as their own, all the while keeping the western nations terrified of 'terrorism'. And so we fight amongst each other.

Irish Water is just another tax in a long list of taxes. There'll be more to come, that's for sure. So we can either sit like obedient little brainwashed eejits or we can actually take our power back by not paying this charge.

This is not about the maintenance of water. Please just look at the line up of the senior staff in Irish Water. Just another platform for cronies to make money from you and me.

If we stop this madness and stop generally buying sh*t we don't need, we will make things very difficult for the elitists. Please open your eyes and see what is really going on here. It is so much bigger than is being discussed.

We need to stand together, despite our differences and take back what is ours. We are not for sale.

We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that.

Satriale

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

can someone tell me how to get out of the habbit of pulling the chain now seeing as it costs 12cents per pull now or whatever it is lol - for years i have always pulled the chain even after a pee but i realise now i must let the yellow mellow to save money , but sometimes my finger hovers over the dual flush button and i remember and take it away just in time and other times i press it automatically and then feel angry for flushing it afterwards lol :eek:

I can tell you one thing, my days of shaking hands with people are over, from what i see in pub toilets most lads wont wash them when its free not to mind when they have to pay to do it. :pac:

TheChizler

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

can someone tell me how to get out of the habbit of pulling the chain now seeing as it costs 12cents per pull now or whatever it is lol - for years i have always pulled the chain even after a pee but i realise now i must let the yellow mellow to save money , but sometimes my finger hovers over the dual flush button and i remember and take it away just in time and other times i press it automatically and then feel angry for flushing it afterwards lol :eek:

Well more like 6 c assuming a 13.2 L flush, €94 per year if you flush 4 times a day, not accounting for any allowance. €50 if you account for a single person's allowance living alone and flushing accounting for 30% of your usage.

DamagedTrax

Wurly wrote: »

And i'll go one better.

Who runs the country, you ask? Well, as the above poster rightly said, water charges and property tax were a condition of the IMF bailout. Who owns the IMF? The Rothschild Family. They are one of about a dozen families who own over 90% of the world's wealth.

That means they own our government, our land, our natural resources our food... the list goes on.

We assist their wealth in many ways by having such a materialistic lifestyle. We buy big brands owned by these savages. We become so entrenched with hating muslims, islamists and christians, that we don't look to the real problem - the elite.

It's worth tracing back the origins of the money used to fund both sides of every war. You'll find that they all come back to the same pool of elitists. Funding both sides of war. You have to ask why. They get to clear land and claim it as their own, all the while keeping the western nations terrified of 'terrorism'. And so we fight amongst each other.

Irish Water is just another tax in a long list of taxes. There'll be more to come, that's for sure. So we can either sit like obedient little brainwashed eejits or we can actually take our power back by not paying this charge.

This is not about the maintenance of water. Please just look at the line up of the senior staff in Irish Water. Just another platform for cronies to make money from you and me.

If we stop this madness and stop generally buying sh*t we don't need, we will make things very difficult for the elitists. Please open your eyes and see what is really going on here. It is so much bigger than is being discussed.

We need to stand together, despite our differences and take back what is ours. We are not for sale.

We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that.

not much more needed to be said after that :cool:

dxhound2005

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

can someone tell me how to get out of the habbit of pulling the chain now seeing as it costs 12cents per pull now or whatever it is lol - for years i have always pulled the chain even after a pee but i realise now i must let the yellow mellow to save money , but sometimes my finger hovers over the dual flush button and i remember and take it away just in time and other times i press it automatically and then feel angry for flushing it afterwards lol :eek:

I'm trying something which may or may not work for you. It would also depend on whether you are the only resident.

My hot water in the bathroom is not instant. Up to now I just let the water run away until it reached the required temperature, a common practice I suspect. Now I capture the water in a pint glass and pour it into a bucket (a nice clean bucket). The water has to run for 5 pints until it is hot enough for me. With this water I flush the toilet on occasion. If that idea is unappealing, you could still use the water in your garden or perhaps boil it on your stove/cooker for washing up. Of course the other biggie is teeth brushing. 12 to 18 litres are wasted each time if the tap is left running. So a couple of ideas there for you there. If you go to the IW site and lots of other sites there are many more water saving tips.

dxhound2005

Larbre34 wrote: »

I'm blue in the bloody face saying this:

The Household Charge / LPT were given to the Revenue Commissioners to enforce. A persons tax compliance depended on having paid these taxes. People need to be tax compliant for very many reasons.

The Water Charges have NOTHING to do with Revenue. They are a commercial charge (you can argue the semantics of a contract existing or not till the cows come home). Your tax compliance DOES NOT depend on having paid them. In theory they could affect your credit record.

Property Tax........Water Tax.........EVERY DIFFERENCE REALLY.

I hope the normal colour has returned to your features. At the risk of turning you puce again, the private property owning class do not need to be forced by Revenue to obey the law. There are plenty of lawbreakers but I am writing about the group in the overall. Their stake in society is very much dependent on law and order being maintained. They contribute most but also benefit the most.

Before the Revenue was even mentioned I think the compliance rate for the HHC was well over 60%. To me that is impressive for a new tax with very weak penalties for non compliance. The NPPR introduced in 2009 by FF got 340,000 NPPR people to pay every year without much fuss in the media. It had a much stronger penalty for non compliance, but not the Revenue. TV licence compliance is circa 80/85%. 14,000 were brought to court last year I think, and again not much remarks passed.

The campaign is depending a lot on the little word If. If a million people ignore their bills, it will go away, they can't take us all to court etc. But I think IW can play the long game. First bill not paid, second one includes those arrears with a note about court proceedings, by the time the third or fourth one arrives a good portion of the non-payers will have relented. The money is always there as a debt to be pursued, unlike the TV licence which can remain unpaid annually for years and can never be recovered.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

gladrags

Wurly wrote: »

And i'll go one better.

Who runs the country, you ask? Well, as the above poster rightly said, water charges and property tax were a condition of the IMF bailout. Who owns the IMF? The Rothschild Family. They are one of about a dozen families who own over 90% of the world's wealth.

That means they own our government, our land, our natural resources our food... the list goes on.

We assist their wealth in many ways by having such a materialistic lifestyle. We buy big brands owned by these savages. We become so entrenched with hating muslims, islamists and christians, that we don't look to the real problem - the elite.

It's worth tracing back the origins of the money used to fund both sides of every war. You'll find that they all come back to the same pool of elitists. Funding both sides of war. You have to ask why. They get to clear land and claim it as their own, all the while keeping the western nations terrified of 'terrorism'. And so we fight amongst each other.

Irish Water is just another tax in a long list of taxes. There'll be more to come, that's for sure. So we can either sit like obedient little brainwashed eejits or we can actually take our power back by not paying this charge.

This is not about the maintenance of water. Please just look at the line up of the senior staff in Irish Water. Just another platform for cronies to make money from you and me.

If we stop this madness and stop generally buying sh*t we don't need, we will make things very difficult for the elitists. Please open your eyes and see what is really going on here. It is so much bigger than is being discussed.

We need to stand together, despite our differences and take back what is ours. We are not for sale.

We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that.

Crony Capitalism at it's peak.

Independence is another myth.

We are voting to elect a motley crew of go-betweens.

Who then impose the wishes of unelected foreign interests,on the people who voted them in.

Sounds familiar, we have had 400 years of this slavery.

You'r last bit about species,is over the top.

Humans have done a lot of damage.

dxhound2005

Phoenix wrote: »

So the rumours of TDs exempt from paying the water charge in a second home is false

What rumours?

Wurly

gladrags wrote: »

You'r last bit about species,is over the top. Humans have done a lot of damage

How so? Is it not a fact?

I don't believe it's over the top. Sure, if we are going to damage the planet, then we must put it right. But look at all the unnecessary crap that we are now consuming compared to even twenty years ago. And that consumption wrecks the planet. Wouldn't stopping the consumption be the best thing to do, rather than throw money at the problem? When we throw money at the problem, all we're doing is lining the pockets of the elite, who, quite frankly, couldn't give two f*cks about the environment.

TheChizler

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What rumours?

There was some possible loophole but it's being closed up at the moment. Bill before the dáil about it.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm trying something which may or may not work for you. It would also depend on whether you are the only resident.

My hot water in the bathroom is not instant. Up to now I just let the water run away until it reached the required temperature, a common practice I suspect. Now I capture the water in a pint glass and pour it into a bucket (a nice clean bucket). The water has to run for 5 pints until it is hot enough for me. With this water I flush the toilet on occasion. If that idea is unappealing, you could still use the water in your garden or perhaps boil it on your stove/cooker for washing up. Of course the other biggie is teeth brushing. 12 to 18 litres are wasted each time if the tap is left running. So a couple of ideas there for you there. If you go to the IW site and lots of other sites there are many more water saving tips.

All this is besides the point.

We don't need to conserve water, we're just expected to pay for it from our taxed income to release the previously used cash in the central pot that always paid for it up til now.

I don't recall reading online or in the media anything about us (Ireland) having any major drought, or scarcity of water tbh, in fact, I reckon we must be up there with the wettest (if not the wettest country in Europe.

So going to all the above effort, to save on a few bob here and there to save on a completely unnecessary water bill is quite frankly ludicrous.

Water may well be a valuable commodity, but in Ireland it's not a rare one.

If this is the level we're stooping to, just to keep the taxes down, I despair for my kids tbh.


TLDR?

You not saving water, you're just denying the Govt revenue. The water will keep bucketing from the sky and filling our reservoirs. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

dxhound2005

TheChizler wrote: »

There was some possible loophole but it's being closed up at the moment. Bill before the dáil about it.

Possible loophole or actual loophole?

TCP/IP

Wow I would say your are a barrel of laughs at a party.

Wurly wrote: »

How so? Is it not a fact?

I don't believe it's over the top. Sure, if we are going to damage the planet, then we must put it right. But look at all the unnecessary crap that we are now consuming compared to even twenty years ago. And that consumption wrecks the planet. Wouldn't stopping the consumption be the best thing to do, rather than throw money at the problem? When we throw money at the problem, all we're doing is lining the pockets of the elite, who, quite frankly, couldn't give two f*cks about the environment.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

All this is besides the point.

We don't need to conserve water, we're just expected to pay for it from our taxed income to release the previously used cash in the central pot that always paid for it up til now.

I don't recall reading online or in the media anything about us (Ireland) having any major drought, or scarcity of water tbh, in fact, I reckon we must be up there with the wettest (if not the wettest country in Europe.

So going to all the above effort, to save on a few bob here and there to save on a completely unnecessary water bill is quite frankly ludicrous.

Water may well be a valuable commodity, but in Ireland it's not a rare one.

If this is the level we're stooping to, just to keep the taxes down, I despair for my kids tbh.


TLDR?

You not saving water, you're just denying the Govt revenue. The water will keep bucketing from the sky and filling our reservoirs. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

Despite what is occasionally claimed here, Ireland is not the wettest country in the world, or even in Europe. Wet countries and dry countries have to process water to make it potable, and they have to provide for waste water treatment. Even with our population having increased by one million and still rising rapidly, the issue will never be is there enough rainfall. It will be can we provide enough treated water.

_Kaiser_

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Possible loophole or actual loophole?

Actual.. here you go

Interestingly it would only have applied to government ministers - probably why it got raised. If they all got it we probably wouldn't have heard a thing about it

gladrags

Wurly wrote: »

How so? Is it not a fact?

I don't believe it's over the top. Sure, if we are going to damage the planet, then we must put it right. But look at all the unnecessary crap that we are now consuming compared to even twenty years ago. And that consumption wrecks the planet. Wouldn't stopping the consumption be the best thing to do, rather than throw money at the problem? When we throw money at the problem, all we're doing is lining the pockets of the elite, who, quite frankly, couldn't give two f*cks about the environment.

"We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that."

It to our human masters we have to pay.

Its a human problem.

Other animal kingdoms eat to survive and reproduce,rear the young.

Full stop.

Ask David if you don't believe me.

dxhound2005

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Actual.. here you go

Interestingly it would only have applied to government ministers - probably why it got raised. If they all got it we probably wouldn't have heard a thing about it

This topic was covered extensively in the thread before. The legislation long predates the water charge, and allows for other expenses to be tax deductible. It is designed for ministers to be able to have their family home in Cork or Donegal or wherever, while paying for a second residence in Dublin in order for them to perform their ministerial duties efficiently. So they say anyway. Nice work if you can get it but vacancies seldom arise and there are only about 15 of them.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Despite what is occasionally claimed here, Ireland is not the wettest country in the world, or even in Europe. Wet countries and dry countries have to process water to make it potable, and they have to provide for waste water treatment. Even with our population having increased by one million and still rising rapidly, the issue will never be is there enough rainfall. It will be can we provide enough treated water.

I haven't ever, not once ever claimed that water doesn't cost money to process to make it safe for drinking, and delivered to and from our homes.

What I am saying is that it has been paid for from the central funds up until now, we pay extra motor tax (that doesn't go on the roads apparently) income tax(that doesn't cover local services, health and now water either apparently) now we're being told we must pay for it directly, after our income has been taxed.

Where is the money previously allocated to water now been redirected to, what will that now be paying For?

What will come down in lieu of the water now being paid for directly? Will our vat rate drop, will motor tax be reduced? Income tax?

Very doubtful, and all the while it'll continue to pour down on our country filling our reservoirs to bursting point.

And the more we conserve, the more it will cost to use.

The piper must be paid. Never forget.

donegaLroad

Wurly wrote: »

And i'll go one better.

Who runs the country, you ask? Well, as the above poster rightly said, water charges and property tax were a condition of the IMF bailout. Who owns the IMF? The Rothschild Family. They are one of about a dozen families who own over 90% of the world's wealth.

That means they own our government, our land, our natural resources our food... the list goes on.

We assist their wealth in many ways by having such a materialistic lifestyle. We buy big brands owned by these savages. We become so entrenched with hating muslims, islamists and christians, that we don't look to the real problem - the elite.

It's worth tracing back the origins of the money used to fund both sides of every war. You'll find that they all come back to the same pool of elitists. Funding both sides of war. You have to ask why. They get to clear land and claim it as their own, all the while keeping the western nations terrified of 'terrorism'. And so we fight amongst each other.

Irish Water is just another tax in a long list of taxes. There'll be more to come, that's for sure. So we can either sit like obedient little brainwashed eejits or we can actually take our power back by not paying this charge.

This is not about the maintenance of water. Please just look at the line up of the senior staff in Irish Water. Just another platform for cronies to make money from you and me.

If we stop this madness and stop generally buying sh*t we don't need, we will make things very difficult for the elitists. Please open your eyes and see what is really going on here. It is so much bigger than is being discussed.

We need to stand together, despite our differences and take back what is ours. We are not for sale.

We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that.

Today, the richest 85 people in the world own more wealth than the poorer half of the world's population, which is 3.5 billion people. We are witnessing a transfer of wealth of unfathomable size. The transfer of wealth from public hands collected by governments across the world in the form of taxes, to the wealthiest individuals and corporations in the world.

Highflyer13

Do we think there will be many at this weekends protest? Im going to march anyway. I've had enough of this shower and their cronies. Working harder than ever and getting relentlessy pillaged!!!

I think these marches should be a state of the nation marches with various groups tbh. The country is in bits. Health, crime, education, housing crisis, corrupt Gardai, Quangos, Cronies, IW rabble rabble etc etc.......

dxhound2005

donegaLroad wrote: »

Today, the richest 85 people in the world own more wealth than the poorer half of the world's population, which is 3.5 billion people. We are witnessing a transfer of wealth of unfathomable size. The transfer of wealth from public hands collected by governments across the world in the form of taxes, to the wealthiest individuals and corporations in the world.

Going of topic but the general populace in Ireland is still managing to scrape a little from the table of the elite. Maybe you have a little bit put away yourself.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-incentive-to-put-money-away-as-state-hits-savers-in-pocket-30640650.html

Households have around €92bn in savings in banks and almost €19bn in the state savings schemes. They are sold by An Post, but issued by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA).

I think the above excludes Credit Unions. We are the elite compared to most of the citizens of the world and certainly compared to any "ordinary" person who lived in the past.

Wurly

gladrags wrote: »

"We are the only species that has to pay to live on earth - remember that."

It to our human masters we have to pay.

Its a human problem.

Other animal kingdoms eat to survive and reproduce,rear the young.

Full stop.

Ask David if you don't believe me.

To br honest, I think we are in agreement here. We are just voicing it in a different way. Or have I missed something?

Danonino.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Going of topic but the general populace in Ireland is still managing to scrape a little from the table of the elite. Maybe you have a little bit put away yourself.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/no-incentive-to-put-money-away-as-state-hits-savers-in-pocket-30640650.html

Households have around €92bn in savings in banks and almost €19bn in the state savings schemes. They are sold by An Post, but issued by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA).

I think the above excludes Credit Unions. We are the elite compared to most of the citizens of the world and certainly compared to any "ordinary" person who lived in the past.

What I'd like to see is the breakdown of those savings, I'd gamble that the vast majority of the savings belong to a small minority of... well.. the elite I guess.

You can add my €9.52 to the list ha ha damn payday couldn't be further.

cajonlardo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Going of topic but the general populace in Ireland is still managing to scrape a little from the table of the elite. Maybe you have a little bit put away yourself.

Households have around €92bn in savings in banks and almost €19bn in the state savings schemes. They are sold by An Post, but issued by the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA).

I think the above excludes Credit Unions. We are the elite compared to most of the citizens of the world and certainly compared to any "ordinary" person who lived in the past.

Didn't I read somewhere that just one of the property developers who was up his neck in nama had €75 million in personal savings? Either way, when the ballots are counted from Friday's boxes you can be certain that the protest voters do not own much of that €92 bn.

gladrags

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Do we think there will be many at this weekends protest? Im going to march anyway. I've had enough of this shower and their cronies. Working harder than ever and getting relentlessy pillaged!!!

I think these marches should be a state of the nation marches with various groups tbh. The country is in bits. Health, crime, education, housing crisis, corrupt Gardai, Quangos, Cronies, IW rabble rabble etc etc.......

Depends on the weather,the forecast looks ok.

It looks as if it could be one of the biggest in a long time.

People genuinely need to show some solidarity.

I will be there.