***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Ghost Buster

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Do they at least have good music...?

No music. It cuts off

dxhound2005

I hope IW will be excused for not having ready made stats for how many have applied, how many did so without giving their PPSN and how many wrote some nonsense on the envelope and returned it unopened. As was demanded here by some, and the absence of which was subject to various conspiracy theories. They appear to be busy enough without that imposition.

Nonetheless their spokesperson on the radio a few days ago said that they were working on some preliminary stats.

KERSPLAT!

Ghost Buster wrote: »

No music. It cuts off

Now that is outrageous!!! :mad:

Phoebas

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Ah now. There is zero hysteria in any claim that irish politics involves cronyism. Try The New if you need clarification.

There is a touch of hysteria in the very specific claim that the reason that Siemens didn't get the contract because 'if Siemens got the contract of installing the water meters, then friends of the government wouldn't be looked after'.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I hope IW will be excused for not having ready made stats for how many have applied, how many did so without giving their PPSN and how many wrote some nonsense on the envelope and returned it unopened. As was demanded here by some, and the absence of which was subject to various conspiracy theories. They appear to be busy enough without that imposition.

Nonetheless their spokesperson on the radio a few days ago said that they were working on some preliminary stats.

Let's hope they're :

A, more honest than the hhc results, (back in March this year Revenue reported +/- 500,000 still had never paid it.

B, higher than the HHC, because without Revenue to collect their spoils.... they'll be destined to fail.

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

There is a touch of hysteria in the very specific claim that the reason that Siemens didn't get the contract because 'if Siemens got the contract of installing the water meters, then friends of the government wouldn't be looked after'.

Why?
Cronyism, as we have clearly seen hasn't disappeared from Fine Gael, what makes you think this kind of stuff hasn't either?

The Moriarty Tribunal found evidence of collusion between Lowry and O'Brien: "There are three significant findings which are largely beyond dispute. They are:

Denis O’Brien gave substantial sums of money to Fine Gael in order to make friends with people in the party.
This happened at a time when Fine Gael was in government and O’Brien was seeking a government decision in his favour.

Michael Lowry sought to be involved, to a greater or lesser degree, in the licensing process, seeking information about it on a number of occasions
Denis O’Brien, or persons close to him, subsequently sought to give large amounts of money to Michael Lowry."[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esat_Digifone_licence_controversy

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

Let's hope they're :

A, more honest than the hhc results, (back in March this year Revenue reported +/- 500,000 still had never paid it.

B, higher than the HHC, because without Revenue to collect their spoils.... they'll be destined to fail.

If you recall one of the main reasons advanced for non-payment of the HHC was "I never got a bill, Joe". People will get a water bill, just like their electric bill.

Phoebas

Happyman42 wrote: »

Why?

The lack of any supporting evidence for the specific claim that was made.

Vanessa2003

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

So contact them on the number given or wait upto 5 days, where's the confusion?

This form should be returned by 31 october !
And don t really wanna pay 5-15 € waiting on automated phone someone to pick up with great probability nobody will , make sense?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you recall one of the main reasons advanced for non-payment of the HHC was "I never got a bill, Joe". People will get a water bill, just like their electric bill.

You keep telling yourself that.

I don't ever remember hhc protests from various parts of the island, including hand to hand battles with the Gardai.

I reckon a half a million non payers will be something Irish Water will be hoping for tbh.

donegaLroad

From Broadsheet.ie

October 22, 2010: RTÉ Six One News reported that Siemens had offered to fund the installation of water meters in 1.1 million households nationwide and that the then Minister for the Environment, John Gormley, welcomed a meeting between the Government and the company.

RTÉ journalist Will Goodbody reported:

Like it or not the Government says domestic water charges are coming. The only question is when and how the system will work. The choice – a flat rate charge on each household or the introduction of water meters. Around 1.1million homes will need water meters installed if metering of fresh water is to be established. The estimated cost of doing that is around five to six hundred million euro. But, right now, that’s money that the Government doesn’t have. But today multinational engineering company Siemens confirmed it’s interested in funding the project and is seeking a meeting with the Minister For Finance about it. Siemens would lend the money needed to install the meters with its costs ultimately being paid from savings made by the Government’s water services programme. And if such a scheme could be arranged it would mean the cash-strapped Government could introduce water charges even sooner.

April 22, 2012: It was reported that, once in Government, Environment Minister Phil Hogan didn’t pursue a 2010 offer from Siemens CEO Werner Kruckow to pay the €810million cost to install water meters in Irish homes.

The Sunday Independent reported:

“Siemens proposed funding the fitting of water meters through an investment to be paid back through savings made in the multibillion-euro cost of providing water services once the meters were installed. Instead the National Pensions Reserve Fund will be raided for €450m to pay some of the bill. The loan from its coffers will have to be paid back with interest at commercial rates, Mr Hogan has admitted, which would be at least €350m. Added to the estimated €810m installation fee, that brings the national water meter fitting bill to well over €1bn.”

“Siemens told the Sunday Independent that no formal offer was made by the department following discussions with officials.”

“Asked why it hadn’t pursued the Siemens offer the Department of the Environment didn’t supply an explanation, but said it had chosen the Irish Water option after 12 months of discussions with stakeholders as “the optimal organisational form for water services delivery in Ireland”.”

December 10, 2013: In the Seanad, during the committee stage of the Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013, Independent Senator Sean Barrett addressed Junior Environment Minister Fergus O’Dowd about the offer from Siemens.

He said:

“What is the approved water charges plan? We do not know how much water will cost or the amount of the free allowance that will be granted. I am not trying to make a wrong analogy, but a used car salesman has to tell his customers how much he is charging. The Government has been far too coy. It is time to put the numbers on the table in order that we can approve the water charges plan. In 2010 there were discussions with the Siemens company on its offer to install meters for nothing. More than three years later the dance of the seven veils has gone on for long enough. There is too much concealment and hugger mugger. Put the numbers on the table and let the people make their decision.”

January 22, 2014: Minister O’Dowd returned to the Seanad to field questions about Irish Water. Independent Senator Fergal Quinn asked about the Siemens offer.

He said:

“Is there an understanding with regard to the costs that obtain in this area? Siemens offered to invest €800 million in a public private partnership relating to installing 1.8 million water meters in Irish homes. The Government turned down that offer and I do not understand why. Perhaps the Minister of State will indicate why it did so.”

And there the trail went cold.

We contacted Senator Quinn, asking if he had received a reply to his question.

He wrote: “No, sadly that question wasn’t answered. Minister Fergus O’Dowd said that decision was made before he was appointed Minister.”

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

The lack of any supporting evidence for the specific claim that was made.

The fact that it has happened before in a government that had some of the incumbents of the present government means that to suggest it may be the reason is not 'hysterical'.
It may be wrong but it is hardly 'hysterical'.

Phoebas

Happyman42 wrote: »

The fact that it has happened before in a government that had some of the incumbents of the present government means that to suggest it may be the reason is not 'hysterical'.
It may be wrong but it is hardly 'hysterical'.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

Believing in the Bogey Man is 'hysterical', believing that this FG government might stoop to corruption because they did before is 'prudent'.

Wurly

Can we add an anonymous poll to this thread to see how many are in favour of or opposed to the water charges?

Banjo String

Wurly wrote: »

Can we add an anonymous poll to this thread to see how many are in favour of or opposed to the water charges?

+1

Smidge

Wurly wrote: »

Can we add an anonymous poll to this thread to see how many are in favour of or opposed to the water charges?

You read my mind
I don't know if it has been posted already but the poll done in the Independant was interesting.

88% will NOT be paying the water charges.

And here I was thinking the low life scroungers who are out protesting/disagree with IW and waters charges only read the "The Star".

Wurly

Smidge wrote: »

And here I was thinking the low life scroungers who are out protesting/disagree with IW and waters charges only read the "The Star".

See? Generalisations are never a good thing.;)

Smidge

Wurly wrote: »

See? Generalisations are never a good thing.;)

But..but wait?
If the poll was taken by the indo it couldn't represent the vote of the "lower class" surely?
Who was voting then? :eek::D;)

KERSPLAT!

I'll try add a poll now though I'm not sure how accurate it'll be as a representation of the country.

What options, just yes or no?

Sir Arthur Daley

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

What options, just yes or no?

Or maybe.

Missyelliot2

Smidge wrote: »

But..but wait?
If the poll was taken by the indo it couldn't represent the vote of the "lower class" surely?
Who was voting then? :eek::D;)

Barry Egan!:rolleyes:

KERSPLAT!

Poll is open

Hijpo

Phoebas wrote: »

Since both need to be paid back there isn't a whole pile of difference.

Its certainly not 'free', as you claimed, is it?

Didn't the pro metering brigade fart around with the "its to reduce borrowing" slogan and now its been shown that when there was a chance not to borrow the government didn't take it.

Phoebas

Hijpo wrote: »

Didn't the pro metering brigade fart around with the "its to reduce borrowing" slogan and now its been shown that when there was a chance to not borrow the government didn't take it.

No.

tharmor

Have not received by pack ! Shall i contact them ?>

Hijpo

Phoebas wrote: »

No.

I see your brain isn't working yet or you would have stretched it to two words.

Phoebas

Hijpo wrote: »

I see your brain isn't working yet or you would have stretched it to two words.

Bit early for the personal stuff.

Phoebas

tharmor wrote: »

Have not received by pack ! Shall i contact them ?>

They say the closing date for making an application is the end of October so it'd probably be best to get it sorted by then - although I can't imagine there would be any sanction for someone who was delayed because the application pack wasn't sent out or went missing in the post.
The first bills won't issue until the end of the year, so you'd want to get it sorted by then.

Hijpo

Phoebas wrote: »

Bit early for the personal stuff.

An argument was made that metering had to be brought in to balance the books. A deal was offered by a company to supply and install the meters probably in return for a percentage of the money generated by the charges. Instead they decided to borrow even more money and gave the contract to a business buddy.